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Alpha Protocol: NOT AN RPG

Joe Krow

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Den of stinking evil.
We were told that there are no dice rolls that work in the background to determine the player's skill, only their ability and whatever bonuses that the skill system has unlocked for them. For example, as Mike draws a bead on an enemy, the reticle starts to shrink, indicating that his aim won't swing as wide. With improvements, it might not take him as long to focus on his mark the next time.

Battling through the train yard revealed opportunities for Mike's covert abilities. At one point, he found a computer terminal that he could hack into, revealing a timed panel of shifting numbers and letters; the player has to match two sequences of digits within that mess. Another electronic puzzle displays several panels of circuits, each with a numbered node linked via twisting paths to a tab at the bottom. This puzzle is also timed, meaning that the player had to choose the correct tab linked to the right path in order to quickly solve each part. With improved skills, the number of nodes would decrease.

Even without significant training, the player can still try solving the puzzles. It was emphasized that none of the puzzles will simply be "unavailable" to the player because of how he had developed his skills, but they would be a lot more difficult to overcome, depending on whether or not they had invested anything into them. For example, the circuit puzzle might have 10 nodes to sort through, as opposed to just three.

So no dice rolls will occur in the foreground or background. Ability enhancements (is that what passes for stats in these days?) might make things easier for the player but the character will be determinative of absolutely nothing. Can anyone tell me what, aside from the marketing campaign and the side of the box, would make this an rpg?
 

FeelTheRads

Arcane
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Apr 18, 2008
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13,716
Was known for quite some time. Only Obisdian fanboys refuse to accept it and still somehow for whatever reason (must be because it has C&C, LOLOLOL!!!) think this is an RPG.
 

Joe Krow

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Could be. But if sites keep covering it as if it were an rpg people might start believing that it actually is. Regardless, I have a feeling we'll look back on this game as a milestone in the long decline of the genre.
 

Micmu

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OMG it haz damage modifiers AND codex covers it, it's an RPG alright. Saying otherwise makes you a dumbfuck!!!
 

Jim Cojones

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AoD won't have dice rolls outside of combat - does it make the game "less of an RPG"? And in Jagged Alliance the game rules include very little of randomness - OMG, stats don't matter!

It's perfectly fine for an RPG, especially for the computer one (that allow you to load the game), to get rid of dice rolls in favour to the other some system and you don't have to use such retarded arguments to prove AP won't be an RPG but action RPG/shooter with RPG elements/shooter with stats/generic piece of shit. In fact, the only argument that one need is that the actions depends on player's manual skills (maybe not for the last one ;)) what is known since the first info about the game. Hmm... Oh, fuck, it really does, quickly I should start a new topic to share the revelation!



Next topic on RPG Codex: Fallout is not an RPG!
It doesn't require player to roll a dice but allow computer to use a random system to decide the result of the action!
 

Trithne

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Dec 3, 2008
Messages
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I run on the logic that if the player does a little minigame (see AP 'hacking') or the player's own skills in some way influences the outcomes of an action being undertaken by the character, then it's not a true RPG. It's a fairly easy line to draw. Fallout's an RPG because there's dice rolls and all the player can do is tell the VD to go pick that lock, they don't then get to fiddle with a screwdriver and bobby pin that breaks.

If there's a little minigame, but also stats or whatever, then its something else. Not sure what. Still an RPG of sorts, but when the player can override the abilities of the character with their own skill level, you're moving away from the RPG side.
 

Joe Krow

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Den of stinking evil.
Jim Cojones said:
AoD won't have dice rolls outside of combat
I'm not certain but that is probably bullshit. Last I heard there are going to be skill checks aplenty. Hopefully that means more then just an ordinal minimum. Stats are numbers for a reason...
does it make the game "less of an RPG"?
In combat no, outside of combat, fuck yes. There is no "roleplaying" value in a player relying on his own abilities rather then his character's. Shooters, sure. Adventure games, fine. Rpgs are supposed to be something else. That's what is being lost here.

And in Jagged Alliance the game rules include very little of randomness - OMG, stats don't matter!
Your kidding right?

Next topic on RPG Codex: Fallout is not an RPG!
It doesn't require player to roll a dice but allow computer to use a random system to decide the result of the action!
No.
 

Joe Krow

Erudite
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Den of stinking evil.
bhlaab said:
its an action rpg okay now shut up

More like action with dialogue trees-

Action in the sense that the player's skill determines what happens in combat.
Action in the sense that the player's skill determines what happens outside of combat.

Where's the rpg part though?
 

Pseudofool

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Dice rolls indicate randomness not use of statistics. The stats can still be meaningful in AP w/o dicerolls, the stats would simply be fixed.
 

MetalCraze

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Obsidian said it has C&C.
C&C = RPG, don't you know fool

Joe Krow said:
bhlaab said:
its an action rpg okay now shut up

More like action with dialogue trees-

Except it does not have dialogue trees.

AP is just another fucking interactive movie with shitty shooter gameplay, because there can absolutely be no other genre except the one where you point a crosshair at an enemy and twitch fire button. And also play minigames. For some reason retarded next-gen codexers call this - RPG. OMG but Feargus said it's RPG therefore it is one. I don't get it.
Next-gen fuckers even call placing a mine that takes out the whole corridor - stealth.
 

TwinkieGorilla

does a good job.
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Serpent in the Staglands Divinity: Original Sin Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 BattleTech Pathfinder: Wrath
Lyric Suite said:
FeelTheRads said:
Obisdian fanboys

Who?

dude. half the retards at that site are now wearing Alpha Protocol avatars and if you look REALLY close you can see a reflection of Avellone-cum dripping down the face of the person who's wearing the avatar. HIGH TECH!!!


no really. is there any other reason than MCA? can anybody seriously tell me what about this game there is to give a flying fuck about?
 

Konjad

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Strap Yourselves In Codex Year of the Donut Codex+ Now Streaming! Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
Alpha Protocol? What is this anyway? I heard the title many times but never bothered to check out what is this about. Anything worth of checking?
 

Qwinn

Scholar
Joined
Dec 15, 2008
Messages
666
I don't understand the objection here at all. RPG = randomness? Wut?

The argument that if there isn't a random component, then stats don't matter, seems entirely f'ing backwards to me. The more of a random component, the LESS stats matter, the more LUCK matters. The more of the luck element you take away, the more stats matter.

This isn't a defense of AP... it's just the specific objection being raised here that's, well, that's kinda retarded.

Qwinn
 

Mantiis

Cipher
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Jan 12, 2006
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I was under the impression it was more like Deus Ex than a rpg. This isn't news.
 

MetalCraze

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It has even less in common with Deus Ex than with RPGs and more with Mass Effect. Hey Mass Effect had hubs with quests too and then lots of corridors with triggers, minigames and shooting.
 

Imbecile

Arbiter
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Bristol, England
Pseudofool said:
Dice rolls indicate randomness not use of statistics. The stats can still be meaningful in AP w/o dicerolls, the stats would simply be fixed.

This.
 

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