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Vapourware A new Deus Ex was in development at Eidos Montreal

RobotSquirrel

Arcane
Developer
Joined
Aug 9, 2020
Messages
2,202
Location
Adelaide
Will there ever be a better game than deus ex?
Well I can definitely tell you it ain't coming from Warren Spector that's for damn sure. His latest game looks fucking atrocious. We're talking Redfall levels atrocious.
Still can't believe System Shock 3 collapsed. Don't work with Tencent, that is the lesson.
 

Roguey

Codex Staff
Staff Member
Sawyerite
Joined
May 29, 2010
Messages
36,925
Never quite liked the writing in HR and MD.
Falls flat when compared to the original Deus Ex masterpiece.
Deus Ex was written by two Harvard grads (and the lead pulled double duty at MIT) and a compsci major. Most other games are going to come up short. Ivy Leaguers interested in working in the game industry don't grow on trees and the Ivies also suck now.
 

Butter

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Oct 1, 2018
Messages
8,815
Will there ever be a better game than deus ex?
On the surface it defies all reason. Deus Ex didn't exist when they made the original. It should get easier to make games like this once you already have an existing title to use as a blueprint, but nobody has matched it in 25 years.

The Decline was so powerful that we still haven't recovered from it. You can pump a hundred times more people and money into the AAA space and they still can't match games that came out a quarter century ago. The entire industry has to collapse, normies and Big Money have to depart the hobby, before we can eat as well as we did in 2000.
 

Marat

Arcane
Wumao
Joined
Jan 6, 2017
Messages
2,759
On the surface it defies all reason. Deus Ex didn't exist when they made the original. It should get easier to make games like this once you already have an existing title to use as a blueprint, but nobody has matched it in 25 years.
It was precisely the challenge and the thrill of creating something new that once drove the artists of old. Retracing someone's steps whilst still imbuing the work with a spark of brilliance is a tenuous proposition for the best of them.
 

Alienman

Retro-Fascist
Patron
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Messages
18,437
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Mars
Codex 2016 - The Age of Grimoire Make the Codex Great Again! Grab the Codex by the pussy Codex Year of the Donut Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
MD was just shit. The second I found myself ambling around a sunny Prague I knew the devs had lost the plot.
It's hilarious how much more sense the game makes, if you read the book first. Major mistake leaving so much of the plot to some random book that maybe 5% of the playerbase read. (Liked it btw, but yeah :))
 
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Cross

Arcane
Joined
Oct 14, 2017
Messages
3,042
The Canadians ruined Deus Ex.
Canucks were just code and asset monkeys, the art direction, design and concept were all tightly controlled by Japs. NuDXes have more in common with MGS than the original
While it's true Square Enix was the publisher, they gave Eidos full creative control. It's just that Eidos was staffed by console peasants and weebs who were contemptuous of the original Deus Ex. It's the same story with their Thief game.

With how bad the western triple-A industry is, handing these properties over to Japs would probably be an improvement at this point. MGSV was arguably more of an immersive sim than nu-DX.
 
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ADL

Prophet
Joined
Oct 23, 2017
Messages
4,183
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Nantucket
Never quite liked the writing in HR and MD.
Falls flat when compared to the original Deus Ex masterpiece.
wasn't as good as the original but Mankind Divided had a bunch of loose story threads that I would have liked to see resolved in the sequel, especially the body swap/Jensen corpse in the Versalife vault.
 

Decado

Old time handsome face wrecker
Patron
Joined
Dec 1, 2010
Messages
2,683
Location
San Diego
Codex 2014
The Canadians ruined Deus Ex.
Canucks were just code and asset monkeys, the art direction, design and concept were all tightly controlled by Japs. NuDXes have more in common with MGS than the original
While it's true Square Enix was the publisher, they gave Eidos full creative control. It's just that Eidos was staffed by console peasants and weebs who were contemptuous of the original Deus Ex. It's the same story with their Thief game.

With how bad the western triple-A industry is, handing these properties over to Japs would probably be an improvement at this point. MGSV was arguably more of an immersive sim than nu-DX.

This is correct, both Canadian DXs were written by Mary DeMarle, Canadian/American writer. Nobody has ever suggested that Squeenix was in charge of the game, and they have never (to my knowledge) taken credit for any of the content.
 

NJClaw+

Novice
Joined
Oct 28, 2021
Messages
11
Oh yeah Command Line hacking lol.

I think the plan was to make hacking more than just a wait to win system but you can see they eventually just stuck with what they had and didn't develop it any further. Such a shame.
People should be careful with what they wish for. Early Access title Fortune's Run that is aping Deus Ex has an even more involved command line, not just picking between options but typing out all the commands properly. It's neat but it breaks the flow of the game. Slowly typing things out doesn't fit the fast-paced stealth-action around it and turns the game very stop-and-go. I'd argue that the budget and time restraints imposed on Deus Ex forced it to conform to a focused ethos which made the game all the more coherent, both in terms of gameplay and narrative. It's as good as it is because of those restraints, doesn't make it unfinished at all. In fact, replaying it just recently the lack of awful mini-games that were introduced to the series after Ion Storm shut their doors was a breath of fresh air.

Let us also not forget that Human Revolution did make the non-lethal path have repercussions other than direct reactivity and that of your own morality. They gave you bonus XP for non-lethal, which was terrible. Further, the sort of game you get without constraints is a Star Citizen of your genre of choice, or another Daikatana, not Deus-Ex-but-better. Heck, it might have been another Duke Nukem Forever.
 

Roguey

Codex Staff
Staff Member
Sawyerite
Joined
May 29, 2010
Messages
36,925
On the surface it defies all reason. Deus Ex didn't exist when they made the original. It should get easier to make games like this once you already have an existing title to use as a blueprint, but nobody has matched it in 25 years.

The Decline was so powerful that we still haven't recovered from it. You can pump a hundred times more people and money into the AAA space and they still can't match games that came out a quarter century ago. The entire industry has to collapse, normies and Big Money have to depart the hobby, before we can eat as well as we did in 2000.
Mankind Divided has the best gameplay of the series, it only comes up short in the writing, which would be near-impossible for anyone to match. A Criminal Past had great character writing though.
 

The Nameless One

Educated
Joined
Sep 19, 2024
Messages
100
Location
Sigilville, CA
On the surface it defies all reason. Deus Ex didn't exist when they made the original. It should get easier to make games like this once you already have an existing title to use as a blueprint, but nobody has matched it in 25 years.

The Decline was so powerful that we still haven't recovered from it. You can pump a hundred times more people and money into the AAA space and they still can't match games that came out a quarter century ago. The entire industry has to collapse, normies and Big Money have to depart the hobby, before we can eat as well as we did in 2000.
Mankind Divided has the best gameplay of the series, it only comes up short in the writing, which would be near-impossible for anyone to match. A Criminal Past had great character writing though.
Well. minus the crashes, frame drops, lack of weapon variety, length, and maybe even voice acting in comparison to HR.

Let's face it though: If they were going to screw up the writing, they might as well have changed the title and just call it Metal Gear Failing. DX was well enough dying out after HR.
 
Joined
Nov 23, 2017
Messages
4,717
Never quite liked the writing in HR and MD.
Falls flat when compared to the original Deus Ex masterpiece.
Deus Ex was written by two Harvard grads (and the lead pulled double duty at MIT) and a compsci major. Most other games are going to come up short. Ivy Leaguers interested in working in the game industry don't grow on trees and the Ivies also suck now.

Yeah, usually Harvard grads are writing for Saturday Night Live or something.
 

duskvile

Fabulous Optimist
Joined
Jun 3, 2023
Messages
347
If Eidos is not working on DeusEx, they're not working of Tomb raider. If we suppose they are not also working on Guardians of galaxy 2, then most likely they're working on Thief.
 

RobotSquirrel

Arcane
Developer
Joined
Aug 9, 2020
Messages
2,202
Location
Adelaide
I'd argue that the budget and time restraints imposed on Deus Ex forced it to conform to a focused ethos which made the game all the more coherent, both in terms of gameplay and narrative. It's as good as it is because of those restraints, doesn't make it unfinished at all.
I mean yes you're right. Without the constraints Harvey redesigns the skill system and ruins the game. This was about to happen when Eidos put their foot down.
Further, the sort of game you get without constraints is a Star Citizen of your genre of choice, or another Daikatana, not Deus-Ex-but-better. Heck, it might have been another Duke Nukem Forever.
Of course. Its one of those things where we're lucky we even got the game in the state it shipped in. I just wish that instead of developing Invisible War they just went back to Deus Ex 1, same engine and tried to work out those issues they had during development rather than introducing a bunch of new ones in the terrible sequel. You can make the argument that this was "Good" for Ion Storm, but I think just barely getting the game out forced them to rein in their ambitions and it was at that point they stopped being the studio we all respected. It came at a price - one that whilst I think was worth it (cause we got Deus Ex), robbed us of what could've been a lot of really wonderful experiences, I wanted Ion Storm to thrive and that just didn't happen.

Case in point with Star Citizen you only have to look at Freelancer. Yeah those constraints are a good thing.

Early Access title Fortune's Run that is aping Deus Ex has an even more involved command line, not just picking between options but typing out all the commands properly. It's neat but it breaks the flow of the game
I can understand that, but even the wait to win system in Deus Ex still breaks it up. I think System Shock 1 handled it better where hacking would become an extension of the FPS gameplay (so like its own dungeon) - SS2 not so much the match 3/pipedream system is a bit lame. There is a better way to do it but no one's tried it yet. Deus Ex of course was never going to have such systems. But nearly everyone would say the ideal would have been Deus Ex with an Uplink style hacking system because Uplink is very very quick.
 

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