Pathfinder ✡️✡️POLL!; Is Pathfinder: Kucmaker really this bad?（´ರೃ益ರೃ`）

[Jarpie]

Correct me if i an wrong, but is not the video of a guy that criticized for 50 minuets "hur dur permanent effects like blindness doesn't work in video games". Ignoring that he can change it on difficulty tab and that perma effects existis in CRPG's since 80s. I got a companion perma petrified on M&M VII as a child and see no problem with it.

I will not watch a 4 hour long video. Please, summarize his main arguments if is not the case.

He's the guy who didn't bother to look through spell/scroll list for protection for electricity or poison, and then bitched about enemies doing electrical damage :D

 

[Xzylvador]

Correct me if i an wrong, but is not the video of a guy that criticized for 50 minuets "hur dur permanent effects like blindness doesn't work in video games". Ignoring that he can change it on difficulty tab and that perma effects existis in CRPG's since 80s. I got a companion perma petrified on M&M VII as a child and see no problem with it.

I will not watch a 4 hour long video. Please, summarize his main arguments if is not the case.

You don't need to watch the 4 hour video.
Just pick any 3 random time points, watch each for 20 seconds and you'll realise the guy wasn't just dropped on the head as a child but must have instead been repeatedly slammed into a wall headfirst, swung by the ankles.

 

[LannTheStupid]

the guy wasn't just dropped on the head as a child but must have instead been repeatedly slammed into a wall headfirst, swung by the ankles.

Is he a survivor of the Massacre of the Innocents by Herod?

 

[BarbequeMasta]

the guy wasn't just dropped on the head as a child but must have instead been repeatedly slammed into a wall headfirst, swung by the ankles.

Is he a survivor of the Massacre of the Innocents by Herod?

Nah his father had a pregnant fetish, so he took many hits on the head as a fetus.

 

[janior]

It's the best game I never played

 

[markec]

Atleast its better then Pillars of Eternity.

 

[DalekFlay]

Correct me if i an wrong, but is not the video of a guy that criticized for 50 minuets "hur dur permanent effects like blindness doesn't work in video games". Ignoring that he can change it on difficulty tab and that perma effects existis in CRPG's since 80s. I got a companion perma petrified on M&M VII as a child and see no problem with it.

I'm at the final dungeon now and after reading about how horrible it is due to paralyze spells I found that all you need to do is give Harrim/Tristian 4 or so freedom of movement spells and have him cast them again after every rest. This is what caused 2 years of internet strife though. People don't want to think about anything, they just want to whacky-whacky.

 

[Darth Canoli]

Atleast its better then Pillars of Eternity.

Barely and i'm not even sure it is, i've yet to try to play through Pillows past the starting island and early snoring sailing to find out ...

 

[DalekFlay]

They both have different strengths and weaknesses but I'd take PoE over Kingmaker pretty easily, personally. Haven't played PoE2.

 

[Darth Canoli]

Sure, i assumed he meant to compare it to Deadwater which isn't so much of a no brainer, they both have plenty of flaws and retarded features.

 

[BarbequeMasta]

Correct me if i an wrong, but is not the video of a guy that criticized for 50 minuets "hur dur permanent effects like blindness doesn't work in video games". Ignoring that he can change it on difficulty tab and that perma effects existis in CRPG's since 80s. I got a companion perma petrified on M&M VII as a child and see no problem with it.

I'm at the final dungeon now and after reading about how horrible it is due to paralyze spells I found that all you need to do is give Harrim/Tristian 4 or so freedom of movement spells and have him cast them again after every rest. This is what caused 2 years of internet strife though. People don't want to think about anything, they just want to whacky-whacky.

Blind fight also protects you from most Gaze attacks, Wild Hunt difficulty is massively overrated by scrubs tbh.

 

[Luckmann]

Please, summarize his main arguments if is not the case.

"I do not understand game, guide on the internet said X but I can't do Y, therefore bad."

I'm not even joking. He misses Jubilost (or arrives too early), misinterprets (and subsequently misrepresents) why Jubilost isn't there, and after coming to the conclusion that Jubilost is missing (which he could only come to if he knew beforehand where most people meet Jubilost), claims that the game is busted because he cannot do the things that require a treasurer (which is perfectly normal; you'll often have a lot of things you can't do before you meet or recruit the right advisors).

In reality, if you miss Jubilost, he eventually show up at your capital, and Jubilost being missing has absolutely nothing to do with the reason the retard thinks (he thinks that because he visited the area earlier, Jubilost isn't spawning; this is false - I always try to visit areas before they change - Jubilost shows up when Troll Trouble starts, and if you don't go meet him before finishing Troll Troubles, he goes to your capital).

Note: The game flat-out fucking tells you when areas have changed, by placing a red fucking exclamation mark in the name. In my opinion, it shouldn't do that, but it does. This is quest-compass-level stuff.

And that's just a small part of a mountain of being fucking stupid.

 

[DalekFlay]

I'm not even joking. He misses Jubilost (or arrives too early), misinterprets (and subsequently misrepresents) why Jubilost isn't there, and after coming to the conclusion that Jubilost is missing (which he could only come to if he knew beforehand where most people meet Jubilost), claims that the game is busted because he cannot do the things that require a treasurer (which is perfectly normal; you'll often have a lot of things you can't do before you meet or recruit the right advisors).

In reality, if you miss Jubilost, he eventually show up at your capital, and Jubilost being missing has absolutely nothing to do with the reason the retard things (he thinks that because he visited the area earlier, Jubilost isn't spawning; this is false - I always try to visit areas before they change - Jubilost shows up when Troll Trouble starts, and if you don't go meet him before finishing Troll Troubles, he goes to your capital).

Note: The game flat-out fucking tells you when areas have changed, but placing a red fucking exclamation mark in the name. In my opinion, it shouldn't do that, but it does. This is quest-compass-level stuff.

To be fair on these, it is stupid Jubilost is only there after a quest trigger, and it's in an area you likely already cleared. In CRPGs of this type there's usually never a reason to go back to an area you cleared unless a quest specifically tells you to. They could have easily had him there from the start and just changed some dialog, or had someone mention there's a gnome traveling in that area who might know more about the troll base, but the game does neither. As for the exclamation marks, you only see those generally if you turn on region names, which isn't the default and makes the map look like a mess.

I don't think this is a big deal since you'd get him eventually anyway, but I do think it's poorly designed. A decent amount of stuff in Kingmaker is designed differently than other CRPGs of this type without telling you clearly it's different, and little of it is an objective improvement over the standard.

 

[Cryomancer]

After some comments, decided to watch to see how the author is.

• 1:15 - No, the journal doesn't lie to you. The journal contains the information that NPCs gave to you. If they are misinformed, you will write the misinformation in your journal. It is a journal, not a artifact of absolute truth!!!
• 4:00 - Yes, the dialog should have more options.
• (skiped to 12min)
• 12:50 - He complained that he had no healer but he can just CREATE a custom merc!!! And the game is not hard. I played with 3 party members on my first run on challenging as a sorcerer which is a trash until lv 6+ and had no problem. He also complains that he has too high AC and there few enemies can hit him but he ignore that enemies that has spells/touch attack can bypass his armor and that now he has knowledge about how to get decent armor and items.
• 16:00 - Powerful items being obtainable early on isn't a problem. The game is a high magical setting. He also compare with Baldur's Gate. But he compares with BG1. BG2 is very easy to get plate armor and other stuff because BG2 is a higher level adventure. Pathfinder Kingmaker is a lv 1 to 20 adventure. You can't compare high level adventure with low level adventure.
• 23:00 - "Hur dur, a Bear can OHK my lv 2 guy with a critical on harder difficulty. I should be able to fight a bear as a lv 2 fighter with no preparation" And the guy is clearly demanding level scaling? Only because noobs wanna enter the ancient dragon's lair with a lv 3 party??
• 29:00 - Stat bloat with 22 CON? He is probably comparing to D&D 5e which has low numbers.
• 30:00 - HE criticized that he encounters a lot of powerful enemies like manticores on a high fantasy game. WTF??? Go play Tyranny if you wanna spend 99,9% of the time fighting humans.
• 33:00 - He only mentions swords and complain about the lack of variety... It is a clear contradiction. Swords are overrated and polearms needs to be far more common. I liked kingmaker because i can make polearm knights!!! Not everygame needs to have longswords everywere as if longswords was the main battlefield weapon and not backup weapons.
• 35:00 - "hur dur, lacks handholding and dungeons are too dark"

(skiped to 1:20:00)

1:24:00 - Is not the game who is saying to wait until the fog to clear, as if NPC's can't be wrong. A PC should try to find a way to clear the fog and not rely on NPCs like they are messengers of Gods.

(Skipped to 1:45:00)

He is complaining that he needs to investigate things instead of having a questmarker...

------------------------------------

Even skipping a lot and watching with 2x speed, it is a very annoying video. I don't wanna hear more. Already wasted 25 minutes.

TL;DR of this 4 hour video -> "i wanna handholding, NPC's that are messengers of Gods, everyone using longswords as if no other weapon existed, level scaling, and press A for awesome"

What part he complains about perma effects that can be turned off by difficulty settings?

 

[Pink Eye]

>press A for awesome

 

[Cryomancer]

This video is just making me wanna to do another kingmaker run. Seriously, his critique is so retarded that i an having flashbacks of almost everything that i liked on the game. Will keep watching(and skipping the repetitive parts with 2x speed)

• 2:04:00 - LOL -> He spended years looking into google to know the obvious that the combat log can show to him. At exactly this timestamp (2:06:41) https://youtu.be/FDtkNokJ10A?t=7601 "i think that i was spoiled by other games that don't do shit like that(...)where enemies wreck you if you are unprepared" ~ FINALLY he said something that makes sense. He is too used to press A for awesome games.
• 2:08:00 No, you don't need to look online; You could just LOOK TO COMBAT LOG!!!
• 2:09:00 Again asking for handholding
• 2:12:00 Again he is asking for press A for awesome and not needing to read anything about what potions and spells do.
• 2:16:00 HE is criticizing that the game is over 140 hours to complete. WTF? The game is bad because has a lot of content.
• 2:17:21 - (https://youtu.be/FDtkNokJ10A?t=8241 ) Here is the legendary part. He criticize that some of this effects like blindness are permanent. The game gives the option on difficulty menu to not have it. But not "hur dur, it doesn't work in video games and i don't need to say why". All old school games, like Might & Magic VI has permanent effects that lasts until cured. Including petrification, cursed, insanity, etc. AND CAN'T BE TURNED OFF ON DIFFICULTY MENU
• 2:40:00 - He is criticizing that "too much enemies"
• 3:33:00 (yes, skipped almost a hour) - HE now looks to the reviewers and say that he doesn't understand why gamestar gives 86 (https://youtu.be/FDtkNokJ10A?t=12786 ) He even asks "i an missing something", and the answer is : YES. Judging the game like is a press A for awesome game. Not a proper RPG. He should have looked into the lowest score reviews too.

According to this game journalist, a game which I have spend 402 hours sucks because

" Swarms of small creatures like rats, for instance, can't be effectively fought with a sword and shield. Sometimes Kingmaker warns you, but other times it simply expects you to know how to handle the problem. Rust monsters, skeletons, gh osts, and so on all have specific tools that you need to understand and be able to use with relative ease"https://www.gamespot.com/reviews/pathfinder-kingmaker-review-the-classics/1900-6417006/

How dare RPG developers not making a game where a backup weapon called longsword is the answer for everything, from insect swarms to heavily plate armor and iron golems. On arcanum, even if you are playing as a character with superhuman strength. IF you had the dumb idea of using a sword to fight a ore golem, you will end up destroying your sword faster than you can do any significant damage on the golem. I just wonder why it only happens with RPG's. Nobody complains that in Red Orchestra, even with 14.5x114mm anti tank rifles, is hard to damage enemy tanks. On Baldur's Gate, is better to use blunt magical weapons against even a clay golem which is the weakest of golems.

Did this guy really played Baldur's Gate? Because some complains like the lack of quality of life, BG has way less QoL. You can't even see if a spell can hit party members or not on BG;

Now that i summarized most of his points, you can just read my posts instead of wasting 4 hours. To be fair, i listened to this game while play icewind dale, and thanks to this video, will RE play kingmaker again.

 

[Zer0wing]

So this is what "analytical" side of youtube content looks like. Truly a prosperous sight.

 

[Comrade Goby]

Is it true this game is cuckshit? I wanted to try it out but if it is then Ill skip it

 

[LannTheStupid]

Is it true this game is cuckshit?

Absolutely yes.

I wanted to try it out but if it is then Ill skip it

Don't even try.

 

[Generic-Giant-Spider]

Did this guy really played Baldur's Gate? Because some complains like the lack of quality of life, BG has way less QoL. You can't even see if a spell can hit party members or not on BG;

Most people like this guy list BG purely to try and leverage their knowledge on a genre so you believe they have a good foundation they are basing criticisms off of. It's no different from people listing off a bunch of classic novels or something before they lay waste to a book they didn't like.

He most likely never played the BG games and if he did then it was not for very long or there were some other shenanigans going on because how you can bitch about permanent debuffs like Blindness and not think back to things like level draining vampires and yet hold reverence for the BG series while demonizing Kingmaker's implementation as, "some things should never translate over from the PnP side of the game" goes to expose dipshits like him hard.

The best part about Kingmaker is how hard it has filtered phony faggots like this. I hope in the next game Owlcat has one of those insulting game over screens where it asks if the player wants to go to Story Mode instead.

 

[BarbequeMasta]

The best part about Kingmaker is how hard it has filtered phony faggots like this. I hope in the next game Owlcat has one of those insulting game over screens where it asks if the player wants to go to Story Mode instead.

Different genre, but DMC3's "Easy mode is now selectable" is one of the most genius death screens ever put in a game, would love something like that in WOTR even if I migth get it ona first playthrough.

 

[Cryomancer]

Most people like this guy list BG purely to try and leverage their knowledge on a genre so you believe they have a good foundation they are basing criticisms off of. It's no different from people listing off a bunch of classic novels or something before they lay waste to a book they didn't like.

He most likely never played the BG games and if he did then it was not for very long or there were some other shenanigans going on because how you can bitch about permanent debuffs like Blindness and not think back to things like level draining vampires and yet hold reverence for the BG series while demonizing Kingmaker's implementation as, "some things should never translate over from the PnP side of the game" goes to expose dipshits like him hard.

The best part about Kingmaker is how hard it has filtered phony faggots like this. I hope in the next game Owlcat has one of those insulting game over screens where it asks if the player wants to go to Story Mode instead.

Amazing post. I agree 100%; basilisks on BG1 can insta petrificate your party members and you can find they relative early on. And stone to flesh is a 6th tier scroll, far above what you can cast with BG1 level cap, and is sold by only one merchant that asks for a fortune...

I had a much harder time on kingmaker than on any infinity engine game but i recognize that is because is too easy to rest scum and save scum on IE games. And i love to be a sorcerer and enemies in this game are better prepared to deal with sorcerers. Spawn of Rovagug for eg, was a very memorable fight. His 36 SR means that even as a lv 20 with greater spell penetration, i an more likely to not hit him with any spell... And some parts are genial, like when a enemy has a cloudkill trap while his undeads are immune to cloudkill effects. I always did it on BG2. Had a wall of skeletons tanking while cloudkill kills the enemy and have to fight undead cyclops inside a cloudkill is a terrifying experience. The traps and enemy placement on the game is amazing.

Kingmaker is not perfect. Some dungeons like house of edge of time is very annoying(not by the battles), the time mechanic could be better implemented, the game could have made more clear that the normal difficulty was made to be a 90s type of "normal" and that new players probably need to play on story/easy, but you rarely see good critiques towards kingmaker; is 99% of the time "i wanna a press A for awesome game"

 

[Gangrelrumbler]

S0rcererV1ct0r
I didn't Finnish Pathfinder yet, but isn't he right about the fog? IIRC clearing the Temple of the Elk causes the fog to lift and you're informed that you should just wait, while in reality the event is triggered by dealing with Tartuccio, which has nothing to do with the fog itself. So it's not like it's the NPC who's wrong.

 

[Gregz]

POSTED: MARCH 30
TL;DR: Like a good old evening of table-top DND, if prior to beginning the DM found out you’re f***ing his wife.

At the outset of this review I would like to declare my bias. I am completely partial having logged 350+ hours into Pathfinder: Kingmaker at the time of writing. 350 miserable, insult-hurling, keyboard smashing hours.

I bought P: K (and its various DLC) because at face value it resembles all the games of its genre I’ve loved in the past (Planescape: Torment, Fallout 1 & 2, Baldur’s Gate, Arcanum, Neverwinter Nights, Tyranny, Star Wars: KOTR, Pillars of Eternity - you get the point.)

Pathfinder: Kingmaker is nothing like those games. It will tell you it is. It’s not. It’s far, far more sinister.

I have finished this game. Twice. Earned more than half of its bloody achievements including the damned Tenebrous Depths secret. I finished this game not because of the above beloved classics, but for the same exact reason I finished Getting Over it with Bennet Foddy. They’re the same game. GOI is just honest from the get-go.

Me, I hate-f***ed this game.

Don’t let anyone tell you “you've just gotta get used to the pathfinder rule-set”. Bull. There’s nothing genius or outlandish to it. A few visits to a sub-reddit will have you fluent in no time.

No, I hate this game because it hates me. It hates you. It hates the player, hates fun/clever/rewarding game design, hates not perma-nerfing your NPC’s stats, hates not meta-gaming, hates not dilligently prepping each and every member of your party before every fight, hates not spending 30 minutes pre-buffing, hates completionists…etc etc.

Like a wife-beater with an expense account it tries just the tiniest bit to keep you from leaving - namely through world-building and characters deserving of a far more competent game-design team.

In this way, P: K is akin to a good old table-top DND session, if prior to starting the DM found out that you’re f***ing his wife.

There is one subset of players who should ignore the above. I’m talking to the masochists out there, the ultimate min-maxing, rubix-cube with a blindfold solving, virtual mountain-climbers who get off on finishing a game that hates being finished. You will play it, you will agonise through it, publish your incredible speed-runs and game-breaks on Youtube and feel a shred of dopamine for what you’ve done.

For everyone else, for everyone who loves all those games I listed at the start – run. Don’t play this game. Pathfinder: Kingmaker is for the gamer who can hate a game almost as much as he or she hates themselves.

 

[NJClaw]

POSTED: MARCH 30
TL;DR: Like a good old evening of table-top DND, if prior to beginning the DM found out you’re f***ing his wife.

At the outset of this review I would like to declare my bias. I am completely partial having logged 350+ hours into Pathfinder: Kingmaker at the time of writing. 350 miserable, insult-hurling, keyboard smashing hours.

I bought P: K (and its various DLC) because at face value it resembles all the games of its genre I’ve loved in the past (Planescape: Torment, Fallout 1 & 2, Baldur’s Gate, Arcanum, Neverwinter Nights, Tyranny, Star Wars: KOTR, Pillars of Eternity - you get the point.)

Pathfinder: Kingmaker is nothing like those games. It will tell you it is. It’s not. It’s far, far more sinister.

I have finished this game. Twice. Earned more than half of its bloody achievements including the damned Tenebrous Depths secret. I finished this game not because of the above beloved classics, but for the same exact reason I finished Getting Over it with Bennet Foddy. They’re the same game. GOI is just honest from the get-go.

Me, I hate-f***ed this game.

Don’t let anyone tell you “you've just gotta get used to the pathfinder rule-set”. Bull. There’s nothing genius or outlandish to it. A few visits to a sub-reddit will have you fluent in no time.

No, I hate this game because it hates me. It hates you. It hates the player, hates fun/clever/rewarding game design, hates not perma-nerfing your NPC’s stats, hates not meta-gaming, hates not dilligently prepping each and every member of your party before every fight, hates not spending 30 minutes pre-buffing, hates completionists…etc etc.

Like a wife-beater with an expense account it tries just the tiniest bit to keep you from leaving - namely through world-building and characters deserving of a far more competent game-design team.

In this way, P: K is akin to a good old table-top DND session, if prior to starting the DM found out that you’re f***ing his wife.

There is one subset of players who should ignore the above. I’m talking to the masochists out there, the ultimate min-maxing, rubix-cube with a blindfold solving, virtual mountain-climbers who get off on finishing a game that hates being finished. You will play it, you will agonise through it, publish your incredible speed-runs and game-breaks on Youtube and feel a shred of dopamine for what you’ve done.

For everyone else, for everyone who loves all those games I listed at the start – run. Don’t play this game. Pathfinder: Kingmaker is for the gamer who can hate a game almost as much as he or she hates themselves.

Ah, the good ol' 438-words bad review without a single concrete critique, yes.