Development Info Underlair is Under Construction

[Saint_Proverbius]

Tags: Underlair

While browsing DungeonCrawlers.org, their top most news item discusses a new grid based CRPG called Underlair. It's a highly ambitious project that has crafting, co-op, resource gathering, and this:

Roguelike elements:
(Inspiring games: ADOM, Cataclysm, Dwarf Fortress, The Temple of Torment)

• Permadeath.

• Procedural generated terrains.

• Procedural generated side quests.

• Skill progression randomization.

• Permanent effects.

RPG elements:
(Inspiring games: Wizards & Warriors 2000, Gothic series, Wizardry 8, Fallout 2)

• Storyline with multiple endings.

• Party based game play, up to 6 characters.

• 4 base classes, each one unlocking 4 new classes, for a total of 20 classes.

• 32 skills; each one unlocking 10 passive or active abilities, that are upgradable 2 times.

• NPC dialogs.

Damn, those are some seriously stunning graphics. I don't normally fawn over graphics, but Holy Moly, son! That's sweet. Lordy, lordy, lordy. Okay, that's enough fawning.

 

[luj1]

Can't believe we are getting frequent, varied, news. Bless you.

Damn, those are some seriously stunning graphics. I don't normally fawn over graphics, but Holy Moly, son! That's sweet. Lordy, lordy, lordy. Okay, that's enough fawning.

It's more atmosphere than graphics IMO. It has a similar vibe as Grimrock.

 

[Skdursh]

The dev literally made a thread for this game here a few days ago.

Imagine an admin actually looking at the forum. https://rpgcodex.net/forums/threads/underlair-a-game-currently-under-heavy-development.137621

 

[Alpan]

Can't believe we are getting frequent, varied, news. Bless you.

It's amazing. I can only hope that I will be lucky enough to keep posting on RPG forums when I'm 48 (stated age of Saint_Proverbius), never mind digging up news on all sorts of interesting games.

I'm going to donate to the fundraiser on Monday. Maybe that was the plan all along...

 

[Kruno]

Thank you Saint_Proverbius, I didn't even know that site existed, am looking into the games section and seeing lots of blobbers to choose from.

 

[Saint_Proverbius]

The dev literally made a thread for this game here a few days ago.

Imagine an admin actually looking at the forum. https://rpgcodex.net/forums/threads/underlair-a-game-currently-under-heavy-development.137621

Imagine caring where I found the news, oh butthurt one. I still found it and gave props, didn't I?

Thank you Saint_Proverbius, I didn't even know that site existed, am looking into the games section and seeing lots of blobbers to choose from.

You can thank Lady_Error for that. She's the one that turned me on to that site.

 

[Kruno]

You can thank Lady_Error for that. She's the one that turned me on to that site.

For all his racism he definitely knows blobbers.

 

[Thac0]

I don't think blobbers and procedurally generated terrain go well together, with how dependant on good dungeon layout these types of games usually are.
I am willing to give it a try eventually to be possibly proven wrong.

 

[Ularis Badler]

Thank you Saint_Proverbius for your feedbak and for further extending Underlair's existence.

I don't think blobbers and procedurally generated terrain go well together, with how dependant on good dungeon layout these types of games usually are.
I am willing to give it a try eventually to be possibly proven wrong.

One thing I must stress out is that, the procedural generation algorithm uses handcraft prefabs of 9x9 tiles. Each one with their own rules to spawn content and to shift architecture around, like walls, stairs, pillars, doors and other scripted visual content. Making it 100% procedural generated, would strongly penalized the look and feel I wish to achieve, unless I would devote an absurd amount of time on the algorithm, which I can't.

I think that using procedural mechanics to shuffle these prefabs with random content, is the best compromise. Could be wrong though, in which case I will just change the strategy. Lets see how it turns out.

Another thing to consider is that, Underlair's premise doesn't revolve around puzzles nor good dungeon layouts. The premise revolves mainly around combat tactics / strategy (no side stepping dancing will be featured), exploration and survival. Survival is not about gridding wood and stone to build shelters but surviving the explorations before you can reach the next settlement for resupply and probably save your progress (if you have the item that allows you that).

Survival tips:

• Make sure your party is fully healed before beginning exploring.
• Bring enough food. Some places will put you through 'no turning back' situations.
• Make sure your equipment is in good shape and bring a second set of gear, because you will need it.
• Understand the biome you are currently in and check the time of the day. Some nasty critters may be lingering about at that point.
  
• Evaluate the situation. Check your party's power and check the difficulty level of a dungeon, you can still pull it off if you plan ahead.
• Always have a rope, and make sure its length it's still considerable.

 

[KeighnMcDeath]

I got a little MMX & Grimlock 2 vibes. I like outside blobbers. I wouldn't say its so much Wizards and Warriors as the movement isn't the same.


I believe MMX had this look mechanic


Legend of Grimlock II maybe had this as well.


Either way, I enjoy outdoors exploration (and weird locales like Anvil of Dawn)

This looks promising.

 

[Whisper]

Looks like Legend of Grimrock 3.

Must buy for me. When it will be put on Steam?

 

[luj1]

he procedural generation algorithm uses handcraft prefabs of 9x9 tiles.

Interesting approach.

 

[*-*/\--/\~]

Procedural this, random that... a huge red flag for me. When will the devs stop settling for throwing random shit at me instead of properly designing levels, quests, encounters...

 

[KeighnMcDeath]

Toss in a construction set.

 

[luj1]

Procedural this, random that... a huge red flag for me. When will the devs stop settling for throwing random shit at me instead of properly designing levels, quests, encounters...

It works for some subgenres.

 

[urmom]

Procedural generation isn't necessarily random. It just means an algorithm of some type was used. Could be a non-PRNG algorithm, like a spiral or fractal or spline, etc.

 

[MrBuzzKill]

An impressive tech demo.

 

[Ularis Badler]

I got a little MMX & Grimlock 2 vibes. I like outside blobbers. I wouldn't say its so much Wizards and Warriors as the movement isn't the same.

The Wizards&Warriors essence is mostly present in the character generation: 6 characters (nearly had 8 because of wizardry 8), and the idea of having a mana pool for each type of magic school. In fact, there are some magic schools with the same name: Sun, Stone and Moon.
The skills sets have also a Wizards&Warriors staring point, which then I expanded considering other games and other ideas of my own.
The crypt we visit during the early states of game play in Wizards&Warriros, was also a great source of inspiration for the underlairs - not on how they look but the vibe they provide.

Thanks for commenting.

 

[Ularis Badler]

Looks like Legend of Grimrock 3.

Must buy for me. When it will be put on Steam?

No date yet, it's nowhere near to completion. But I plan to release a demo so people can try it when the premise's core is in place.

 

[Ularis Badler]

Toss in a construction set.

There is no construction set planed. However, you will actually have the ability to customize the world's generation algorithm when starting a game. This means that, you will be able to:

• Define the world size.
• Define the region size.
• Content abundancy by type.
• Points of interesting amount.
• Settlement size and frequency.
• Underlairs size and frequency.
• Loot control.
• Permadeath On / Off.
• Difficulty settings for damage.

This list is prone to change when feedback will start to kick in.
Modifying these settings will drastically affect the game play, that's why there will be a "recommended" setup.
The recommended setup will pretty much be built upon the feedback from players. I will need to see what people enjoy most about it, hoping to achieve the "ideal" experience.

 

[Ularis Badler]

Procedural this, random that... a huge red flag for me. When will the devs stop settling for throwing random shit at me instead of properly designing levels, quests, encounters...

You are probably the same person who posted a similar comment on one of my video's on the youtube, in which I replied the following:

"It's actually a combination of hand crafted prefabs that are randomly placed, with other handcraft set of rules for shifting architecture around within these prefabs. Regardless, procedural algorithms are not just about placing random stuff, they need to obey a set of rules that can be quite large and complex, and in the end able to recreated believable results (depending on what you are aiming for). In case of Underlair, the only way people know it's procedural generated, it's because I'm telling that in the video. But yeah, if you want 100% handcrafted levels, you won't find that here for sure. Underlair is not about travelling on rails (which some of my favorite games do) but designed to offer a unique experience each time you start a new game, emphasizing exploration and decision making."

And I will extend: creators will not stop doing things because someone doesn't like what they are doing. You cannot create something and expect everyone to enjoy it. What you are basically doing is, walking into a whiskey store only to complain you don't like whiskey.

 

[Ularis Badler]

he procedural generation algorithm uses handcraft prefabs of 9x9 tiles.

Interesting approach.

So far, I'm enjoying the results and I believe it was the right call for what I have planned.

 

[Ularis Badler]

Procedural generation isn't necessarily random. It just means an algorithm of some type was used. Could be a non-PRNG algorithm, like a spiral or fractal or spline, etc.

Indeed.

 

[Saint_Proverbius]

And I will extend: creators will not stop doing things because someone doesn't like what they are doing. You cannot create something and expect everyone to enjoy it. What you are basically doing is, walking into a whiskey store only to complain you don't like whiskey.

Agreed. Not everyone will like everything you do. That's not a reason not to do something for the most part. I've never understood the backlash towards randomly generated areas, especially when it comes to dungeons. A dungeon is something you should go in to having a limited idea what you're getting in to. I'm not saying all games should have random dungeons, but imagine how boring a dungeon would be if you were given a complete map to the thing before you entered it? Exploration and discovery are two huge aspects of them.

And no, not everything has to be randomized. Imagine a scenario like this in a game that models very basic needs. It spawns in some kobolds on the edge of town. They're hungry, so they're attracted to a nearby farm with livestock. They invade the farm. That triggers the family on the farm's need for safety which causes them to run towards the nearby town. This allows the player to bump in to them and get the "quest" to clear the kobolds. The only random part of that is where the kobolds spawn. The rest of that is happenstance on where things are in the world and having a needs based AI. The only problem is dealing with the speech which communicates to the player that he can intervene to fix the problem.

 

[Rarre]

Why is everything son shiny?? It hurt my eyes...

Good luck
Looks great anyway apart form brightness...