Editorial 2005: The Year in Review

[FrancoTAU]

Good article, i agreed with about 90% of it.

When was the last time a remotely decent TB RPG bombed in the market that had a decent publisher that hyped them some? Even ToEE did pretty well with it's shitty marketing, right? Wiz 8 died out there, but fuck... they might've had the shittiest publishing debacle of all time. I didn't play Lionheart but the consensus is that it was an awful game.

Compared to the roughly dozen Action RPGs that bomb a year even with a good publisher behind them

 

[LlamaGod]

I was thinking Schmoozer might be retarded with the Troika comment and then I saw

I'm currently playing Deus Ex II... Though it is very linear, the dialogue and exploration are decent. Worth the $10.00 I paid for it.

and that cemented it.

 

[Sol Invictus]

I'm surprised I wasn't bashed harder.

 

[Atrokkus]

3) I'm glad Troika is dead. I hate both them and Atari for selling unfinished dung.

Indeed you are a dumbfuck for saying this. How can you even bother with bug-seeking, when those bugs impede only the techical side of the gameplay, i.e. performance. It does not, in any way, spoil the roleplaying aspect, and this is what really matters.
You talk unfinished dung huh? Well, how about KOTOR2: not THAT's unfinished dung, and NOT because of bugs, but because it was really cramped up so viciously, that it slaughtered that potential that was there.


Oh, and Spaz: great article! Lookin' forward to a lot more of such Codex features in future.

 

[Kthan75]

Interesting read, as usual, but the previous two articles were better, IMO. While the information in the article is alright and I agree with most of the main ideas, I didn't like that you really trashed Obsidian and some games (Baldur's Gate, KOTOR 1&2). True, they are not the best RPGs ever and don't follow in the footsteps of classics like Fallout or Torment. But we really should face it: we won't be seeing games like those for a while. Just my opinion, instead of trashing and dismissing any future rpgs because they are not perfect (or, at least, in our view of a perfect rpg), we should try to appreciate and enjoy the current games for what they are.

I really liked KOTOR2, despite it being unfinished it had good ideas. Baldur's Gate 2 was a decent game that gave me a lot of hours of fun. Why shouldn't I appreciate that? And don't get the wrong, Fallout and PS:T are my favorite games and my friends know I'm a Fallout freak. This is just how I prefer to see things. I'd rather enjoy a decent game while hoping to play a brilliant one sometime in the future.

About Obsidian, it's easy for us to talk and criticize, but we don't really know how things happen in their studio. They released only one game so far and although it had flaws, I'm willing to give them the benfit of the doubt for now.

Anyway, sorry for the rant, the bottom line is I agree with what is said in the article, but I don't agree with the tone.

 

[Ryuken]

" I fondly recall spending about 6 hours trying to kill that damn lich in BG2 (or was it BG1?). "

You suck. 6 hours to beat one monster? You, fool, shouldn't be able to play games at all. You just plain old fashion suck.

If it was Kangaxx then I am not surprised. That guy was 100x more challenging than all the dragon encounters/end battles in BGII+ToB combined, even with a party of 3 high-level mages. Six hours straight would be pretty wacko though, at least try to pause. Troika shouldn't be dead, I only played Vampire and TToEE but I enjoyed both games mostly, even with the bugs.


Can't say I disagree with the article in general, action rpg's can be great but not like they are made now by Gas Powered Games or Lionhead, traditional AAA rpg's are as good as dead. Schmoozer has a point when he says that there is also way too much focus on mmorpg's instead of singleplayer rpg's. I got a feeling that that won't change when publishers realise the success of a game like WoW (which isn't even revolutionary, only very accessible). Everyone will want to compete with that game just as it happened for action rpg's with the Diablo-series.

 

[Kthan75]

" I fondly recall spending about 6 hours trying to kill that damn lich in BG2 (or was it BG1?). "

You suck. 6 hours to beat one monster? You, fool, shouldn't be able to play games at all. You just plain old fashion suck.

If it was Kangaxx then I am not surprised. That guy was 100x more challenging than all the dragon encounters/end battles in BGII+ToB combined, even with a party of 3 high-level mages. Six hours straight would be pretty wacko though, at least try to pause. Troika shouldn't be dead, I only played Vampire and TToEE but I enjoyed both games mostly, even with the bugs.

Kangaxx was a real bitch but by the time I got to him I had everything I needed to kill him. Wasn't easy though, took me a few tries. The most difficult battle for me in BG2 was Firkraag, because I killed him right as I met him and not at the end of the game as most people do. I remember I had an exam the next day and I was like "Fuck that, I want this guy dead!" Took me a few hours, some cursing and screaming, but man, was that sword useful after that! (the Avenger I think it was called, the one only Paladins could use).

All the Troika games were fun, once you get past the bugs.

 

[Fresh]

You guys NEED to tally over to the TES forum and check out the sandbox fight with VD and the fanbois. It's teh funni! http://www.elderscrolls.com/forums/inde ... pic=215220

EDIT: While you're over there also have a look at this gem : http://www.elderscrolls.com/forums/inde ... pic=215254 ("PLEASE RELEASE OBLIVION")

 

[Vault Dweller]

What's proven is that you are spewing one-sided mantra on a website that "Supposedly" covering RPG's. Trust me, you haven't heard the last of this. I WILL be finding out who owns that website and making sure THEY know how ignorant you are and my displeasure of you using THEIR website for YOUR personal hatred of Oblivion.

One more thing, I'm going to be posting the information I find and I want EVERYONE to e-mail RPG Codex and tell them to take down that biased trash they call an article.

I don't want the site shut down, I want ignorant people to fired so they can't use a legitiment website for spewing one-side mantra.

 

[Atrokkus]

Duck and cover, guys, it's coming down!

 

[Dreagon]

What's proven is that you are spewing one-sided mantra on a website that "Supposedly" covering RPG's. Trust me, you haven't heard the last of this. I WILL be finding out who owns that website and making sure THEY know how ignorant you are and my displeasure of you using THEIR website for YOUR personal hatred of Oblivion.

One more thing, I'm going to be posting the information I find and I want EVERYONE to e-mail RPG Codex and tell them to take down that biased trash they call an article.

I don't want the site shut down, I want ignorant people to fired so they can't use a legitiment website for spewing one-side mantra.

Now you've done it. A horde of slobbering Beth fanboys are going to descend on you with torches and pitchforks.....no waitaminute, just torches because Beth couldn't be bothered with animations for polearms style weapons.

 

[Fresh]

Why don't you be a man and take DOWN the article or REVISE the article. However, I dont' expect that to happen. You don't have the guts to admit when you are wrong.

 

[Jasede]

You guys NEED to tally over to the TES forum and check out the sandbox fight with VD and the fanbois. It's teh funni! http://www.elderscrolls.com/forums/inde ... pic=215220

EDIT: While you're over there also have a look at this gem : http://www.elderscrolls.com/forums/inde ... pic=215254 ("PLEASE RELEASE OBLIVION")

Thanks !HyPeRbOy!, the first thread is solid gold.

whoever wrote that article needs a hammer taken to them. Baldurs Gate bad? What? Oblivion - he slated it!! This guy is obviously going through depression. I wouldn't be suprised if he took a knife to his wrist after writing that. Geez

That comment is really amazing. It's not simple, bland stupidity, nay! Comments like that can only be archieved by taking an already immensely ignorant person and letting his dumbness crystalize, so that is transcends the realm of mere moronitude
and becomes something worse. Stupidity is only the absence of intelligence, but this guy has reached pure anti-intelligence, a feat that's nearly impossible to accomplish for mere mortals.

 

[HanoverF]

Turn based RPGs are fun, yeah. But It's a step in the right direction to move away from that, in my opinion.

Yes, far to much fun in those old Turn based RPGs, thank you Bethsoft for moving away from that.

 

[Azura's Star]

Alright, I read your article. I disagree with portions of it, being a massive fanboy of Bethesda Softworks. But I'm not here to flame. I just have a question.

What kinds of RPGs do you actually like? It seems to me that you've pretty well narrowed down the list:

-You don't like MMORPGs, thinking that they're a threat to the old-style RPG market, as they have more mass appeal.

-You don't appear to have liked many old-style classics (Baldur's Gate? You didn't like Baldur's Gate?).

-You didn't like Morrowind, which is (in my opinion) the genre-defining game of the RPG style which focuses as much on the game world as on the actual player character.

-You don't like action-RPGs, or at least, you think that since Diablo did it so well, no-one else should ever try again.

The only thing I hear of as (mostly, with one notable exception) well-liked around here is Troika. Well, I've played two games from Troika. One was Arcanum. I liked this game, and there's no denying it's a truly hard-core, old-style RPG (and that's with a capitalized Role Playing). On the other hand, it was buggy as hell, had the world's worst combat system, was ugly, and was atrociously unbalanced.

The other game of their's I've played is Vampire - The Masquerade: Bloodlines. Once again, this is an excellent game, probably the best to be released (once again, in my opinion) since Morrowind in 2002. On the other hand, it's hardly an RPG. It has the character development system of an RPG, but it plays like an action game, unless you use guns, in which case it's more of a FPS. It's got the puzzle content of an old school adventure game (a la Myst), and half the quest content is as survival/horror as any Silent Hill game. What's great about the game is its unique and unified blend of game styles, but not its RPG content.

So, I'm at the RPG Codex, but somehow I sense an almost universal hatred of anything which is generally categorized as an RPG. Can someone either correct my misapprehensions on the subject, or explain to me why a bunch of people at a website devoted to RPGs...don't like RPGs?

 

[Jason]

Watch out, people. Frankie is pissed and he's going to find out all our emails and tell our parents unless we remove all our posts. We haven't heard the last of this.

EDIT:
@Azura's Star: You need to keep in mind that just because some people at the Codex don't like certain games doesn't mean everyone here feels the same way. This site has its share of of BG lovers and haters, Diablo lovers and haters, etc.

 

[Vault Dweller]

Alright, I read your article. I disagree with portions of it, being a massive fanboy of Bethesda Softworks. But I'm not here to flame. I just have a question.

Welcome to the forums.

-You don't appear to have liked many old-style classics (Baldur's Gate? You didn't like Baldur's Gate?).

Great adventure game, poor RPG: too linear, cosmetic choices, etc.

-You don't like action-RPGs, or at least, you think that since Diablo did it so well, no-one else should ever try again.

Not really, but we are not fond of crappy action RPGs.

The only thing I hear of as (mostly, with one notable exception) well-liked around here is Troika. Well, I've played two games from Troika. One was Arcanum. I liked this game, and there's no denying it's a truly hard-core, old-style RPG (and that's with a capitalized Role Playing). On the other hand, it was buggy as hell, had the world's worst combat system, was ugly, and was atrociously unbalanced.

So was DF, but it didn't stop it from being a great game.

So, I'm at the RPG Codex, but somehow I sense an almost universal hatred of anything which is generally categorized as an RPG. Can someone either correct my misapprehensions on the subject, or explain to me why a bunch of people at a website devoted to RPGs...don't like RPGs?

As for your questions:
http://www.rpgcodex.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=9862
http://www.rpgcodex.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=9901

 

[Fresh]

snip

Hey RPG COdex aint no hive mind thank you.

 

[HanoverF]

Sure it is, you just need to go over 500 posts to become one with it

Oh and Volourn has no mind to become one with so that explains him

 

[Fresh]

Hehehe

One post closer to the hive!

 

[Azura's Star]

snip

Hey RPG COdex aint no hive mind thank you.

Ahem...

The hive mind has spoken.

From http://www.rpgcodex.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=9901

Take me to your leader.

 

[Spazmo]

Awesome, I (actually VD, he's to blame for the Oblivion bit, but I'M THE ONE WHO HATED KOTOR2!) riled up the BethSoft fanboys! Time to fight fire with gasoline (line break inserted so people can just read the next paragraph without bothering with any nonsense like "context"):

If you didn't like the article or disagreed with any of the points it contained, it's because you are a dumb piece of shit with no taste. There is no room for different opinions. Your favourite game or company is complete garbage and tends to reflect your numerous personal inadequacies. The failure of the industry is largely due to your failure as a human being. Every dollar you spend on a game I don't like is a dollar that goes towards the fall of civlization. In conclusion, if you and all the other fans of your game or company of choice had never been born, we'd all be better off.


Credit is due, however, to the handful of people at the TES boards who went "Well, everything they said was true."

 

[Vault Dweller]

If you didn't like the article or disagreed with any of the points it contained, it's because you are a dumb piece of shit with no taste. There is no room for different opinions. Your favourite game or company is complete garbage and tends to reflect your numerous personal inadequacies. The failure of the industry is largely due to your failure as a human being. Every dollar you spend on a game I don't like is a dollar that goes towards the fall of civlization. In conclusion, if you and all the other fans of your game or company of choice had never been born, we'd all be better off.

lol. Good stuff, Spazmo, pure poetry. Anybody needs a signature?

 

[Azura's Star]

Awesome, I (actually VD, he's to blame for the Oblivion bit, but I'M THE ONE WHO HATED KOTOR2!) riled up the BethSoft fanboys! Time to fight fire with gasoline (line break inserted so people can just read the next paragraph without bothering with any nonsense like "context"):

If you didn't like the article or disagreed with any of the points it contained, it's because you are a dumb piece of shit with no taste. There is no room for different opinions. Your favourite game or company is complete garbage and tends to reflect your numerous personal inadequacies. The failure of the industry is largely due to your failure as a human being. Every dollar you spend on a game I don't like is a dollar that goes towards the fall of civlization. In conclusion, if you and all the other fans of your game or company of choice had never been born, we'd all be better off.

Well...at least you don't equivocate.

So, since I've obviously committed some social faux pas in suggesting that there might be something like a general consensus around here, I'll just ask you: Are there any RPGs you actually like? If so, what are they, and what do you think makes them better than, for instance, Baldur's Gate II? If not, why do you write for a site called RPG Codex?

 

[Vault Dweller]

Did you miss the link?