Prosper A Dane and a Swede argue about MOBAs, also Crime & Punishment

[ASTRAL]

In DOTA you can fill up your inventory slots with six active abilities (with not so long cooldowns) and on top of that have a hero that has more spells than any LOL champion(many of witch also skillshots) ,some of the items and hero skills also summon different units that should be controlled and have there own active abilities.Witch proves scientifically DOTA its mechanically more complex .

SO? I may have won the argument !

 

[Zed]

I admit that I probably know (at least care) as little about LoL as you know about Dota, but take this as an example. Enigma jumps from woods and does Black hole vs entire enemy team, wiping them out in seconds - vs- Enigma goes hurr durr and accidentally blows Black hole on nothing..

That example is so out of touch with the actual differences of ability impact that it highlights the absurdity of this fucking conversation. The difference isn't 200 damage to 1000 damage, it's more like the difference between 400 and 500 damage.

That said, LoL currently has a bit of an issue with bursty casters which makes your example a bit more relevant, but that's a side-note at most.

Everything in Dota is burst and very impactful, that's my point.
The difference is between 200 damage (if that's lol?) and 1000 damage.
It's the difference between a team wipe and losing the game. one skill use from one player.

did i just spend an hour of my life arguing with someone who does even know the fucking basic mechanics of the game he is arguing about?

my life sucks and I detest you Zed...

Every single item effect like blinking dagger or teleport staff is implemented in lol as two long cooldown ability slots. Before entering a game you pick the two abilities you will have (Teleport and Blink for instance) and you have them throughout the game (albeit with long cooldowns, though with shorter cooldowns if you take the appropriate masteries before entering the game - sort of like WoW skill trees). That's on top of a shitload of items with active abilities like Deathfire Grasp (singletarget mini-nuke that amplifies following magic damage).

I detest people who play games like LoL and think it's even remotely in the same league (lols pun) as Dota in terms of complexity and learning curve.
Anyway, what you describe doesn't sound complex at all. In fact it sounds like "Dota light and easy" which is just what LoL is.

I don't see how your life sucking has anything to do with this, but I debunked your initial "LoL compensates complexity with bullshit" comment so hard jesus wept and if you wanna carry on, I won't stop.

 

[Zed]

In DOTA you can fill up your inventory slots with six active abilities with (not so long cooldowns) and on top of that have a hero that has more spells than any LOL champion(many of witch also skillshots) ,some of the items and hero skills also summon different units that should be controlled and have there own active abilities.Witch proves scientifically DOTA its mechanically more complex .

SO? I may have won the argument !

"no but LoL is so complex look at the WoW-like talents we can pick and we have skills like single target amplify magic"

 

[Zed]

if only we still had bruticis around to spam the staff with reports of off topic when two of their own are guilty

make a new fucking thread ffs

this is a discussion for another thread, but I would really like to see how LoL has a bigger emphasis on "skill shots".

I think the matter is settled. We can go back to Josh Sawyer now.

 

[DefJam101]

i feel bad for supporting discussion of dota and dotalikes

 

[Krash]

Now if there was a time to cull some off topic shit this is it. Let's cry about sawyer and balance instead.

In before 1000 pages of "what is balance"

 

[Grunker]

I admit that I probably know (at least care) as little about LoL as you know about Dota, but take this as an example. Enigma jumps from woods and does Black hole vs entire enemy team, wiping them out in seconds - vs- Enigma goes hurr durr and accidentally blows Black hole on nothing..

That example is so out of touch with the actual differences of ability impact that it highlights the absurdity of this fucking conversation. The difference isn't 200 damage to 1000 damage, it's more like the difference between 400 and 500 damage.

That said, LoL currently has a bit of an issue with bursty casters which makes your example a bit more relevant, but that's a side-note at most.

Everything in Dota is burst and very impactful, that's my point.
The difference is between 200 damage (if that's lol?) and 1000 damage.
It's the difference between a team wipe and losing the game. one skill use from one player.

did i just spend an hour of my life arguing with someone who does even know the fucking basic mechanics of the game he is arguing about?

my life sucks and I detest you Zed...

Every single item effect like blinking dagger or teleport staff is implemented in lol as two long cooldown ability slots. Before entering a game you pick the two abilities you will have (Teleport and Blink for instance) and you have them throughout the game (albeit with long cooldowns, though with shorter cooldowns if you take the appropriate masteries before entering the game - sort of like WoW skill trees). That's on top of a shitload of items with active abilities like Deathfire Grasp (singletarget mini-nuke that amplifies following magic damage).

I detest people who play games like LoL and think it's even remotely in the same league (lols pun) as Dota in terms of complexity and learning curve.
Anyway, what you describe doesn't sound complex at all. In fact it sounds like "Dota light and easy" which is just what LoL is.

I don't see how your life sucking has anything to do with this, but I debunked your initial "LoL compensates complexity with bullshit" comment so hard jesus wept and if you wanna carry on, I won't stop.

You are either an evil troll, trolling an unfortunate, tired, poor Danishman, or you are actually that stupid. Either way, I am not spending more time arguing the merits of two games when you do not even know the down-to-earth fundamental basics of one of them, yet proceed to speak as if you do anyway. Off to bed. Nighty night.

 

[Ninjerk]

Grunker There's a greater opportunity cost to get blink in DotA. I think the primary difference between LoL and DotA is much akin to the difference between kwan NFL and college football (again, handegg)--the penalty for failure is much greater in one than the other, and momentum shifts are much more achievable (thus more frequent) and larger in magnitude in the other.

 

[Sensuki]

Yeah if you fuck up a black hole, you gotta wait 3 minutes (!) for it to come off cooldown again. That is the equivalent of G_G in competition if you miss. Even in normal games - in the mid to late game that is a disaster.

You don't see shit like this happening in LoL

 

[Ninjerk]

Nevermind missing a teamfight ability, you can fuck your ability to even engage in teamfights if your laning phase goes poorly. Jungling is quite a bit different, as well.

 

[Sensuki]

Yeah if you fail jungle or the other team fucks your jungle farm - lmaooooo laters pretty much

 

[Renegen]

We haven't had a pissing contest in a while, should be fun.

I find that both games have about the same mechanical requirements. I've played Lone Druid extensively and although it's suggested you be a korean with leet micro skills, I found his mechanics quite easy. When I play carries, I also frequently use the Helm of the Dominator, and that little critter isn't any harder to micro along with all of your other responsibilities. Hell the last champion(lol) I played a lot was Nature's Prophet and along with his actives, a Necro and his critters, there's rarely any problem. Yeah there's a few like Meepo that might be harder and Invoker is honestly pretty difficult or queue-ing up abilities in a row might take some skill, but League also has tons of specific mechanics that you need to learn. Instantly bursing down a champion in 1 second with Leblanc takes a lot of skill, as does playing someone like Shyvana to her full potential if you can believe it.

Both games at the highest level require similar mechanics, and let's not pretend Dota is some bastion of high skill, when Valve makes it impossible to find someone's win ratio, level or as of now their elo, you know there's something wrong with your player base. The majority of the Dota2 community probably has to fight with their support for last hits. Both games are good but the biggest difference to me is dota's shitty matchmaking. All pick, extra gold for random picks, stacks everywhere, even in ranked which they've just introduced. And to access all this goodness you wait forever and get matched with lvl 3 russians anyway.

And speaking of elo, why did Valve have to double every elo value compared to every other game in existence? Hey look I'm 2700 elo, I'm 4000 elo! The saddest part is the inferiority complex dota2 players have, League is actually a pretty decent game... I enjoy it because it's more competitve.

 

[Chaotic_Heretic]

Both mobas are shit. Playing them competitively feels like a stressful chore instead of you know fun.

 

[Sranchammer]

That video makes me sad.

 

[Sensuki]

and let's not pretend Dota is some bastion of high skill, when Valve makes it impossible to find someone's win ratio, level or as of now their elo, you know there's something wrong with your player base. The majority of the Dota2 community probably has to fight with their support for last hits ... the biggest difference to me is dota's shitty matchmaking. All pick, extra gold for random picks, stacks everywhere, even in ranked which they've just introduced. And to access all this goodness you wait forever and get matched with lvl 3 russians anyway.

And speaking of elo, why did Valve have to double every elo value compared to every other game in existence? Hey look I'm 2700 elo, I'm 4000 elo! The saddest part is the inferiority complex dota2 players have

As much as I will never agree that LoL is as competitive as dota and to me, anyone who prefers it is just as bad as a console fag - these are all very valid criticisms and ones I share. I don't think it's the playerbase that asked for these things (though I may be wrong). Matchmaking in DotA2 is INDEED fucking abysmal, when I played HoN it was so much better. As I stated earlier I think valve is taking the game into a decline, for the most part they were doing a good job at porting DotA to a new engine, but now they're trying to trim gametimes, reworking non-broken mechanics that have been in the game forever and adding in all of these privacy features.

The item whoring system doesn't help and fucking stupid Diretide modes and stuff like that (but it brings in $$$$$$$$$), but YMMV.

Personally I preferred how it was in DotA1 - no stats. Just play, and that's it.

 

[Hellraiser]

There are four things that would make me want to cut off all contact with a person and deny I ever knew him or her in real life:

1) Arguing the superiority of Fallout 3 over the previous two games in public.
2) "Discussing" his/her weird and possibly disgusting fetishes in public.
3) "Discussing" whether DOTA2 or LoL is a better MOBA in public.
4) Political agitation and whining in the vicinity of the water cooler at work.

Discussing the merits of MOBAs is like discussing the merits of COD.

 

[Ninjerk]

There are four things that would make me want to cut off all contact with a person and deny I ever knew him or her in real life:

1) Arguing the superiority of Fallout 3 over the previous two games in public.
2) "Discussing" his/her disgusting weird and possibly fetishes in public.
3) "Discussing" whether DOTA2 or LoL is a better MOBA in public.
4) Political agitation and whining in the vicinity of the water cooler at work.

Discussing the merits of MOBAs is like discussing the merits of COD.

I wouldn't exactly call this public.

 

[Hellraiser]

I wouldn't exactly call this public.

Neither did I, but discussing the subject matter in such context is quite retarded even by low internet and codex standards. Even cuntsole fanboy flame wars are less retarded IMO.

 

[Sensuki]

the merits of COD.

You better block me then because I've played 7500 hours of Call of Duty 1, Call of Duty 2 and Call of Duty 4 (Promod) online - public and competitive. MSI and Creative flew my 2010 CoD4 team to New Zealand to play over there at xLAN.

Long story short - PC only CoD1 and CoD2 WW2 shooters were very good. CoD4 sucks without Promod, and even then it's still pretty crap compared to CoD1 and CoD2.

99% of the disdain of the CoD series started at MW2.

 

[Corporate_Jew_Master]

The only good thing about League of Race Traitors is that you can hear kids cry and rage across the internet in frustration. In DotA, it's usually neckbeards and they are too jaded for that, or russians, which respond with a wall of cyrillic.

Nevertheless, the fact that you get a free get-outta-jail card in LoL should put it beyond the shit cetion of the MOBA cesspits and into the handholding one. Not that DotA is great, by any measure. It just had the singular fortune of icefrog appearing a decade or so back and fixing a broken and piece of shit game into something actually playable.

99% of the disdain of the CoD series started at MW2.

3 was an even worse one. I stopped there I think.

Is world at war any good? Heard it's got fun multiplayer and a really good gun feel, especially with bolt action rifles.

 

[Sensuki]

Corporate_Jew_Master

CoD3 was a console-only game. I have never played (and never will play) CoD on console, I don't own a console.

CoD WaW I didn't buy. I went to the Australian launch party in Melbourne, played it for a day and decided yep ... not buying this. I did borrow a key and play it for a few scrims - the maps are horrible and the stock game is about as bad as (perhaps worse than) CoD4. With the War mod it's alright, but it's a dead game. (Btw I have not played a CoD Singleplayer since CoD1)

 

[Suicidal]

MOBAs are fun because fighting against enemies controlled by real human opponents is infinitely more fun than fighting against predictably scripted bits of code, and it will always be more fun unless AI makes some sort of major breakthrough any time soon. Suck it, nerds.

 

[Corporate_Jew_Master]

MOBAs are fun because fighting against enemies controlled by real subhuman opponents

fixd

 

[Markman]

There's a champ/hero called Zed in LoL.

Oh, and I found out something. Being good at Dota2 wont make you good at LoL and vice versa. At our skill level these is no point in debating which game is better, just what game we prefer the most.

And most of the bitching comes from jelly fags who cant grasp why LoL is 3x more popular game than their beloved Gaben franchise.

 

[Sensuki]

Because it's more casual

I couldn't give a rats about Valve specifically. It's the DotA1 legacy that I care about ... they are slooowly losing grip of it too.