A great example of why TES matters

[DarkUnderlord]

Well , there's a shitload more art

That's right folks, pretty pictures count when it comes to Lore. More pretty pictures = far superior Lore page! Look at that, it's shiny.

But really, yes, yes yes, of course they're essentially the bloody same.

Nice to know you finally agree with me on that.

Now did you have any other actual points you wanted to make before contradicting yourself later as you keep stamping your foot, or are you done now? TIP: If you want real discussion on the Lore, it might be an idea to drop the "inane argument".

 

[match000]

It seems noone here has played Ultima 7! For true Ultima fans would ring aloud to my previous sentiments with their own Ultima stories!

 

[Twinfalls]

So the pocket guide draws a picture of Cyrodill that is styled on Ancient Rome, and Cyrodiilians as having Roman names? It's been so long since I played Redguard that I cannot remember.

http://til.gamingsource.net/pge/

You can read it yourself.

You will see, if you read it, that there is no indication whatsoever that the architecture and clothing of Cyrodiil are those of Ancient Rome. It is the illustrations of the Pocket Guide which perhaps are more relevant, but they are not reproduced there.

This is what Goodall was getting at. The lore may set Rome as the metaphoric inspiration for Cyrodiil, but why does that mean all the names (Processus Vitellius) and more importantly - all the outfits, the buildings, etc - must look so much like Rome, and not something rather different and original?

 

[Twinfalls]

I think it'd be a great idea to convert TIL over to a Wiki.

That should come as no surprise, given Bethesda's inability to write dialogue in any format other than Wiki. :wink:

 

[Twinfalls]

Nice to know you finally agree with me on that.

Ah, DU. Chime in on a different argument and claim it as your own. Not so easy, my friend.

Here's what we were 'discussing'.

Me: "TES lore is really good".
DU: "Meh, TES lore is ordinary, look - Fallout's is better. You are saying TES is the best. Fallout's is best."

I read your first post and though "Meh"

Nice to know you agree with me on that. Is there any real point you wish to add to this discussion, or do you want to keep contradicting yourself? (Tip: it might be an idea to drop the inane arguments :wink

Here, let me refresh your memory some more:
.
.
.

Tintin, now Twinfalls. I think all our T users fell out of the same idiot tree.

Gee, what a creative metaphor. I bow before your Power of Prose.

The TES store of artwork and lore is surely relatively impressive in the world of CRPGs.
[TES Lore is really cool in that no Lore from any other computer role-playing game even comes anywhere close to matching it in terms of detail and information.]

Yes, that's right. 'relatively impressive'=='far greater than everything else.' Welcome to DarkUnderlord world, where anything can mean whatever he says! He's just like that kid in the Twilight Zone..... spoooooky......

You also conveniently ignore the obvious reason for my maintaining that it is something impressive. It's in response to a complete dismissal, the 'meh, it's nothing, here - fallout.'

Yeah, I was backing up Saint. I read your first post and though "Meh" and then read that post, interpreted it the way I did and responded to that with why I believe you're wrong in that case. Hell, even in your original post you've got a bit on the end asking for Lore from other games.

...

But oh wait, you're not enjoying that are you? In some bizarre way it's not the same. After asking for it, you can't even bring yourself to admit that "Hey, that is pretty cool Lore actually.

Yes. I didn't say to you or Saint 'Hey that's pretty cool'. Why? Well, once again:

Because your responses didn't invite it.

Saint's response was 'Meh'. Yours was 'Meh+Fallout'. Hell, you've just admitted that above.

But you can't understand this. And since you've decided to start flaming over your impossibly petty complaint, let me tell you why that is.

...(no need to remind you further :wink

 

[Twinfalls]

It seems noone here has played Ultima 7! For true Ultima fans would ring aloud to my previous sentiments with their own Ultima stories!

Indeed.

This was the point of my very first post - that where you have great lore, you have that much more lost, if you sacrifice a game to the gods of commerce.

Look what happened to Ultima. What's lost is not simply game mechanics - it is the game world, the history, art, etc.

 

[Athame]

Yeah, it's a bitch when developers fuck up the setting. Trust me on this, most Fallout fans sympathize when it comes to that. Really, we can't wait for Bethesda to fuck it up even more!

It's coming sooner than you think. Read the headlines after the release of TES IV:

Fallout: The Next Generation

Featuring in game VO's from Patrick Stewart and narrated by Leonard Nemoy with the special musical voice talents of William Shatner singing "Rocket Man" for the title song!

You start as a Dwemer dimension traveler just reentering the prime material plane from your long sojourn in the realm of Oblivion in your warp powered Dwemer Airship only to discover the world is laid to waste by nuclear war...............

 

[match000]

It seems noone here has played Ultima 7! For true Ultima fans would ring aloud to my previous sentiments with their own Ultima stories!

Indeed.

This was the point of my very first post - that where you have great lore, you have that much more lost, if you sacrifice a game to the gods of commerce.

Look what happened to Ultima. What's lost is not simply game mechanics - it is the game world, the history, art, etc.

Right. But if Garriot came back tomorrow and said to EA "Let's make Ultima 10", EA would jump all over it.

And Ultima 10 would sell billions... ca-jillions... of $$$$

 

[Shagnak]

Well, I would buy the fucker.
Shit, I'm still looking for a copy of that execrable piece of shit known as Ultima IX.
I'm a completist you see...oh if only Lunchie would seed that torrent :wink:

 

[Claw]

On a semi-related note, you know what's funny? That Ultima IX is also known for its mysterious lack of crossbows!

 

[Shagnak]

Haha!
And for being complete shit and a betrayal of all that fans of the series hold dear!!

Oops.
I've gone too far

 

[GhanBuriGhan]

Haha!
And for being complete shit and a betrayal of all that fans of the series hold dear!!

Oops.
I've gone too far

It's a great reminder that good intentions can go horribly wrong. Beware Bethesda!

 

[Twinfalls]

Damn straight. EA are zombies. BUT they're people like you and me. So how do we become zombies?

Well, the problem is institutional, but i get flamed if i say that. so, .....

for the money, for the money, the death of us all.

Haha. Ahhh, what DOES it matter?

Ok, time for... a new topic...

 

[Twinfalls]

Ahh.. but I must say, before I leave...

Bethesda are still independents.

They are still good guys.

Despite all what we might think.

When bethesda is bought over, then:

WE ARE FUCKED.

Keep it going, Beth. For all the shit you get here, you are fighting. But if you forget that you are fighters, if it becomes JUST for the money, then - well..

THE MOST IMPORTANT THING that MSFD has said here, is that he does it NOT FOR THE MONEY. HE COULD MAKE MORE ELSEWHERE if it was just for the money.

This is the most imprortant thing, because, this is the death of us all, if we all exist do things just for the money. Then we are fucked.

Anyway, my future posts will be when drunk, or not at all.

Love,
TF

 

[TheGreatGodPan]

Isn't Bethesda part of Zenimax or something like that? That doesn't sound especially independent.

 

[MrSmileyFaceDude]

There's not much else to ZeniMax besides Bethesda Softworks. Besides, the point is that we do not have to seek out a publisher to make the games we want to make. We fund and publish our games ourselves. The distribution deals we've made with companies like 2K Games and UbiSoft serve to help us get the game into more peoples' hands, but those are distribution deals, not publishing deals.

 

[Vault Dweller]

Besides, the point is that we do not have to seek out a publisher to make the games we want to make.

But are you making games you want to make or are you making games that would sell the most? Does it really matter who makes profits a priority and replaces gameplay features with gimmicks, publisher or developer?

 

[Lumpy]

Nice to know you finally agree with me on that.

Ah, DU. Chime in on a different argument and claim it as your own. Not so easy, my friend.

Here's what we were 'discussing'.

Me: "TES lore is really good".
DU: "Meh, TES lore is ordinary, look - Fallout's is better. You are saying TES is the best. Fallout's is best."

What I understood, however, is that he was saying that Fallout's lore was as good as TES's, so it's not really unique, like you said in your first post.

 

[Naked_Lunch]

Well, I would buy the fucker.
Shit, I'm still looking for a copy of that execrable piece of shit known as Ultima IX.
I'm a completist you see...oh if only Lunchie would seed that torrent :wink:

Oh, so now it's my fault?

And let's face it, despite my undying love for Ultima, it wouldn't sell shit. Most gamers nowadays don't even know the game series, let alone who the fuck made it. EA just milks the online license because some people are still dumb enough to play it (I like how the new expansion pack adds elves to the game, despite the fact that um...elves don't exist in Britannia). They'd just tell Garriott to fuck off if he ever came back trying to pitch Ultima. Though I wouldn't give up the possibility that ol' Lord British would try and make a spiritual successor, like what Irrational is doing with BioShock (I NEED MORE INFO ON THAT, DAMMIT!).

 

[Jung]

Art or no art, TES sucks. That is all.

 

[Shagnak]

Though I wouldn't give up the possibility that ol' Lord British would try and make a spiritual successor, like what Irrational is doing with BioShock

That would be great.
Though I suspect the chances are so infinitesimally small that they are virtually zero.
Much like my Wizardry 9 dream. :glum:

 

[Naked_Lunch]

Tabula Rasa seems to be shaping up nicely, so who knows? Maybe a publisher will think Gariott will be the "hot stuff" and pick up his ideas for another game.

*sigh*

 

[TheGreatGodPan]

There's not much else to ZeniMax besides Bethesda Softworks.

Watch out, I'm telling Vir2L Studios LLC, Mud Duck Productions and ZeniMax Productions LLC, you're gonna be sorry you said that! :twisted:

 

[MrSmileyFaceDude]

Who works for the company in question again, and who doesn't?

 

[Chefe]

I'm an intern there! :D