A great example of why TES matters

[bryce777]

Besides, the point is that we do not have to seek out a publisher to make the games we want to make.

But are you making games you want to make or are you making games that would sell the most? Does it really matter who makes profits a priority and replaces gameplay features with gimmicks, publisher or developer?

The problem is not that they are trying to make a profit. If you are doing a good job and reasonably good with management profit and product go hand in hand. The problem is when companies subscribe to the gready algorithm. Companies like microsoft (as much as I hate them) don't even bother with thinking that's not going to become profitable as hell in ten years and become a cash cow. Small brained bad business people fuck over their customers in an obvious way and only think of the next release, not the future, not their reputation, nothing.

I don't think bethesda is as guilty as many of the companies which have slit their sloats this way, but they are still making some of the same mistakes such as deluding themselves to think that they are going to make games which are just rpgish (or at least close enough to hype it)to con the old school gamers who even know what the elder scrolls is into buying the next one, but with such simple gameplay that they will be able to appeal to 14 year old consolers.

When you look at all the companies that are gone, they either made similar mistakes to this or else they just died from wild mismanagement like with wizardry and all its internal meltdowns. Hell, origin would still be making games if they had stuck with a similar formula to ultima 6 and 7 with better production values over time, and so would wizardry for that matter. The demand is still there, but the big publishers have no idea of the difference between pc games and console games, and despite the fact that this meathead thinking has met with failure OVER AND OVER this is considred the 'mainstream'.

 

[DarkUnderlord]

Yes. I didn't say to you or Saint 'Hey that's pretty cool'. Why? Well, once again:

Because your responses didn't invite it.

I responded with "Hey, Fallout Lore is pretty cool" because your response asked for it.

 

[Drakron]

... Hell, origin would still be making games if they had stuck with a similar formula to ultima 6 and 7 with better production values over time, and so would wizardry for that matter. The demand is still there, but the big publishers have no idea of the difference between pc games and console games, and despite the fact that this meathead thinking has met with failure OVER AND OVER this is considred the 'mainstream'.

Since I am a "Wing Nut" ...

Idiot.

Origin was not only Ultima, they had Wing Commander and had started out the Crusader series.

Origin end was Ultima Online and EA looking at it as a cash cow, all other series were cancelled to futher support UO but EQ come out and EA was never able to do something out of UO (or MMORPGs for that matter) and so Origin ended but it was not because they have "failed" in their games (even if Ultima and WC taken a turn to worst in the final games, a lot due to EA direct involvement) but because they made a game that made so much money that EA only wanted it.

 

[TheGreatGodPan]

Who works for the company in question again, and who doesn't?

I thought it was fairly obvious that was a joke. I would never seriously make threats against you. Unless of course you announced how badly you were going to rape Fallout 3, but even then they'd be hollow threats because I'm very lazy.

 

[Vault Dweller]

Besides, the point is that we do not have to seek out a publisher to make the games we want to make.

But are you making games you want to make or are you making games that would sell the most? Does it really matter who makes profits a priority and replaces gameplay features with gimmicks, publisher or developer?

The problem is not that they are trying to make a profit.

Nothing wrong with making a profit, obviously. My point was when making a profit becomes the focus and takes over development, when one's no longer making a good game but a game that should sell the most, then it clearly becomes a problem. At least for consumers.

 

[Chefe]

It seems there's a new interview out there, telling us everything we want to know about Oblivion!

That's right................... trees!

http://www.computerandvideogames.com/news/news_story.php(que)id=126695

 

[MINIGUNWIELDER]

watch g4tech tvs ultima thingy... look at gariotts face....regret

 

[Twinfalls]

Okay, here's an even better example of Bethesda making their game-world less original and more blatantly cliched and derivative.

Look at this screenshot:

http://www.tothegame.com/sshotfeat.asp? ... 5425&pic=1

Okay, so Argonians tend to be enslaved. But does that mean they have to be so overtly dressed and styled like African-American slaves in the Deep South?

 

[Tintin]

Okay, here's an even better example of Bethesda making their game-world less original and more blatantly cliched and derivative.

Look at this screenshot:

http://www.tothegame.com/sshotfeat.asp? ... 5425&pic=1

Okay, so Argonians tend to be enslaved. But does that mean they have to be so overtly dressed and styled like African-American slaves in the Deep South?

You know....it could be that that is just one Argonian who wears common clothing, just as hundreds in Morrowind did.

 

[Twinfalls]

Yes, and your point is?

 

[Tintin]

My point is - uh, it's one Argonian who happens to be in common clothes, not all Argonians being dressed in poor clothing.

What's your next analaysis? All women will be booksellers?

 

[Twinfalls]

My point is not omg ALL argonians are dressed like this! My point is of those Argonians who are poor or slaves, why are they styled in this manner? My point is that there really shouldn't be any Argonian slaves looking like this. If the devs allowed more imagination to be used, instead of going with this 'let's make everything metaphoric for human history', then there are plenty of interesting style possibilities - it is a fantasy world after all.....

 

[Micmu]

Well, he looks Ok to me. At least his face is not human.
Twinfalls: According to the TES lore (if it hasn't been modified too much) slavery is illegal in Cyrodiil and it is civilised and tolerant. So there's no need to have all Argonians as beggars and slaves here.
...btw, their traditional weapon is now probably a warhammer.

 

[Tintin]

My point is not omg ALL argonians are dressed like this! My point is of those Argonians who are poor or slaves, why are they styled in this manner? My point is that there really shouldn't be any Argonian slaves looking like this. If the devs allowed more imagination to be used, instead of going with this 'let's make everything metaphoric for human history', then there are plenty of interesting style possibilities - it is a fantasy world after all.....

You're just rambling now. It's a screenshot with a commoner standing before the character. Looks nice, let's move on.

 

[Twinfalls]

Tintin, seriously.

You are a fucking joke. Don't you realise just how stupid you look to everyone who visits here? I'm giving you a useful suggestion. If you are too stupid to understand discussion, you'll be doing yourself a big favour by just fucking back off to the TES forum. Yes, you are a stupid, useless little twat. But at least you'll be amongst some good company there.

 

[Tintin]

Tintin, seriously.

You are a fucking joke. Don't you realise just how stupid you look to everyone who visits here? I'm giving you a useful suggestion. If you are too stupid to understand discussion, you'll be doing yourself a big favour by just fucking back off to the TES forum. Yes, you are a stupid, useless little twat. But at least you'll be amongst some good company there.

That's nice. Is that all you could come up with? Aw, poor Twinfalls.

An argonian is standing in the town wearing common clothes. Twinfall's analysis: "OMG A SLAVE WITH POOR CLOTHING WAT A CLICHE BETHESDA SUX"

 

[Twinfalls]

Twinfalls: According to the TES lore (if it hasn't been modified too much) slavery is illegal in Cyrodiil and it is civilised and tolerant. So there's no need to have all Argonians as beggars and slaves here.

You too, Micmu, are missing my point (though you are at least not a stupid troll).

It's not that they will ALL be beggars or slaves.

It is that of those who ARE slaves, the dress, according to that screenshot, is very clearly, entirely derived from human history. It's an African-American slave look.

This is what I'm getting at, you see. Rather than something original, it's that 'make it all a metaphor' thing again.

 

[MrSmileyFaceDude]

That Argonian isn't a slave, he's just wearing common clothing. There are plenty of Argonians in the game who are in much better station. For example, the head of the Mages Guild in the city of Bravil is a female Argonian who dresses in much nicer clothing.

 

[Shadow Aspect]

Apologies for just jumping in like this.. and I don't have anything against you...
but what exactly were you hoping for pauper-type NPC's to be wearing (nevermind the race). Something that is cheap and poorly made - therefore easy to acquire for poor folk - is going to be pretty standard in most game worlds... Using easy to work with, cheap materials such as wool and leather.
It just so happens that this argonian is wearing a particular collection of 'poor person clothing' (which in Morrowind would have just been described as 'common' clothing, if I remember right) which reminds you of Earth-based slaves-clothes. Did you maybe want them to be dressed in mud and Hawaiian style grass skirts?
I'm sure there were plenty of people in Earth history, classified as poor, who would have made and worn clothing looking much like that. Doesn't mean they were all African-American slaves.
Edit: Too slow

 

[Twinfalls]

That Argonian isn't a slave, he's just wearing common clothing. There are plenty of Argonians in the game who are in much better station. For example, the head of the Mages Guild in the city of Bravil is a female Argonian who dresses in much nicer clothing.

Once again, I have no doubt that there are plenty of Argonians who are in better station.

It's the one in the pic which is in issue.

Glad to hear he's not a slave. It's just that he has that look.

Well, to me anyway.

 

[Twinfalls]

but what exactly were you hoping for pauper-type NPC's to be wearing (nevermind the race). Something that is cheap and poorly made - therefore easy to acquire for poor folk - is going to be pretty standard in most game worlds... Using easy to work with, cheap materials such as wool and leather.

It just so happens that this argonian is wearing a particular collection of 'poor person clothing' (which in Morrowind would have just been described as 'common' clothing, if I remember right) which reminds you of Earth-based slaves-clothes. Did you maybe want them to be dressed in mud and Hawaiian style grass skirts?
I'm sure there were plenty of people in Earth history, classified as poor, who would have made and worn clothing looking much like that. Doesn't mean they were all African-American slaves.
Edit: Too slow

I'm not saying 'he is an African-American slave because he dresses poorly'.

I was saying he had that look specifically.

To me.

And why grass skirts, wool, etc? Why not something more interesting? 'Poor' people even in Earth's history have still worn interesting clothes. And this is a fantasy game.

I'll admit:

It was my assumption, based on the 'look', that there will be a slave 'look' based on human history. And I still expect this to be the case.

BUT - I guess we'll see soon enough.

 

[Shadow Aspect]

BUT - I guess we'll see soon enough.

True enough

 

[Section8]

I think you're reading too much into it. I'd be more concerned about the fact that his body has very human dimensions to it.

 

[Sinder Velvin]

I think it'd be a great idea to convert TIL over to a Wiki.

Why?

 

[MrSmileyFaceDude]

I think it'd be a great idea to convert TIL over to a Wiki.

Why?

Because it'd be easier to add new info, it'd be easier to navigate, it'd be searchable, etc. I wouldn't advocate opening up article submission/modification to EVERYONE, but I think it'd make the site an even better info repository than it is now.