After playing a lot of JRPGs, most CRPGs became tedious

[Urthor]

Fell Seal,

I want to give you a brofist for playing this, but you do know that Fell Seal is pretty much an inferior rip of Final Fantasy Tactics Advance II right?
Meshes really oddly with the rest of your post, since Fell Seal is such a clear homage to Tactics Ogre style SRPGs while they sadly went out of fashion for a while in Japan.

idk I think you misread my very very long followup post, and most of my original post, and didn't quite get the point.

I don't care about the game mechanics as such. IE I don't care about what the character sheet actually is, what the combat formula is, how defense is calculated. Mostly that stuff is pretty okay generally speaking. Although I can write a different long mega post about player decision trees when it's the player's turn.

I care about the time between turns, the user interface experience for turn based. Most JRPG turn based games are shit in this area, which sucks enjoyment. Into The Breach is by far the best I've ever played in this area.

Whilst I admit I have not played FFT or Tactics Ogre, I want to narrow down what I find attractive about Fell Seal to especially that part of its appeal.

I'm not particularly making a JRPG vs WRPG comparison, since the majority of WRPGs suck just as much as the majority of JRPGs suck.

Mostly I just think your average JRPG is not very good because it fails at this step to make an enjoyable game.

 

[Thac0]

Whilst I admit I have not played FFT or Tactics Ogre, I want to narrow down what I find attractive about Fell Seal to especially that part of its appeal.

Fell Seal Arbiters Mark is a JRPG. Only hardliners who claim that not a single game made outside of Japan can be a JRPG claim otherwise.
It copies everything from the FFT school of thought, and is just a new game in that ruleset with some new classes. The only thing that sets it apart from its eastern origins is the wound system. It is like the Japanese made a faithfull Baldurs Gate III in the Infinity Engine, but in reverse. So yeah, maybe check out that school of games.

I'd say the opposite. After playing peak incline turn based games like Fell Seal, Xcom, Breach I've really become turned off by poor implementations of turn based combat in most JRPGs.

Which makes this opening very silly.

But well, your core point still makes sense that you only like the peak 10% of combat in both genres. You just accidentaly listed one of the JRPG combat greats (since noone really disputes that FFT gameplay is peak JRPG combat) aswell.

Also citation:

 

[Urthor]

I mean, I say most.

Clearly there are good JRPGs, I post in this forum, I don't just not play JRPGs ever. My view is just that most JRPGs except the very best aren't worth it.

 

[dacencora]

Fell Seal,

I want to give you a brofist for playing this, but you do know that Fell Seal is pretty much an inferior rip of Final Fantasy Tactics Advance II right?
Meshes really oddly with the rest of your post, since Fell Seal is such a clear homage to Tactics Ogre style SRPGs while they sadly went out of fashion for a while in Japan.

idk I think you misread my very very long followup post, and most of my original post, and didn't quite get the point.

I don't care about the game mechanics as such. IE I don't care about what the character sheet actually is, what the combat formula is, how defense is calculated. Mostly that stuff is pretty okay generally speaking. Although I can write a different long mega post about player decision trees when it's the player's turn.

I care about the time between turns, the user interface experience for turn based. Most JRPG turn based games are shit in this area, which sucks enjoyment. Into The Breach is by far the best I've ever played in this area.

Whilst I admit I have not played FFT or Tactics Ogre, I want to narrow down what I find attractive about Fell Seal to especially that part of its appeal.

I'm not particularly making a JRPG vs WRPG comparison, since the majority of WRPGs suck just as much as the majority of JRPGs suck.

Mostly I just think your average JRPG is not very good because it fails at this step to make an enjoyable game.

More SRPG than RPG, but I think many of the Fire Emblem titles have excellent gameplay loops, with great UIs and pretty fast paced gameplay (especially if you hold “A”)
But I certainly agree with you that Into the Breach is extremely slick, and I like it a lot. I get a greater sense of enjoyment and progression from something like Fire Emblem, personally, but I still like ITB a lot.

 

[flyingjohn]

After playing a lot of jrpg's,most jrpg's became tedious.

 

[Sreggin Etah I]

After playing a lot of jrpg's,most jrpg's became tedious.

Anything can become tedious if you do too much of it, thing is: i was burned out of jRPGs, after playing JRPGs for 7 months, i took a break and went back to CRPGs, but i was not having a lot of fun. I tried playing Wizardry 6, the game was freezing randomly every 5-10 minutes and the UI was painful, tried Ultima 4 the game is just slow, cryptic, bad UI and the combat was really fucking boring, i can't stand old PC games UI anymore. Then i tried playing something more modern like Fallout 2 and the game was crashing randomly(some weird memory error) but i did beat it, great game (bugs aside).

So screw it, i went back to JRPGs, beat FF4 and currently playing Dragon Quest 3 and having fun. CRPGs are slow and time consuming, and they don't even work properly on my system, and JRPG's works perfectly on emulators.

After beating DQIII i wll try more CRPG's like the Gold Box games and SpiderWeb games.

 

[Nifft Batuff]

It's common to find the opinion the JRPGs are more conservative than WRPGs. The fact however is that you find more variety in game mechanics in JRPGs than in WRPGs. Maybe this is due to the fact that there are more JRPGs than WRPGs.

While JRPGs were continuously produced, WRPGs almost disappeared as a genre, before the indie resurgence of the last years, and the situation is still precarious. This is due to credence of western producers that the genre is too dated for the modern audience and that everything has to be an action game to be successful (basically every AAA WRPGs made in recent years is an ARPG).

 

[minakami]

After playing a lot of strategy games, RPGs became tedious to me. I can only enjoy roguelikes these days.

 

[Sreggin Etah I]

roguelikes is a subgenre of RPGs though.

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/games...&list_type=rate&view_type=0&dlc=0&min_votes=1

 

[Machocruz]

Yes, and roguelikes are the better video RPGs now. The level of character options , interactivity, and available tactics in Cataclysm, for instance, KILLS anything that isn't Arcanum level, and maybe that too. And obviously every move you make and every bit of resources you have in RL are important, the way it should be.

Even one simple like Brogue has a wider possibility space than most "proper" RPGs.

The patrician's choice, honestly.

 

[dacencora]

Yes, and roguelikes are the better video RPGs now. The level of character options , interactivity, and available tactics in Cataclysm, for instance, KILLS anything that isn't Arcanum level, and maybe that too. Even one simple like Brogue has a wider possibility space than most "proper" RPGs. And obviously every move you make and every bit of resources you have are important, the way it should be.

The patrician's choice, honestly.

Indeed. Roguelikes are RPGs in their purest form. I wonder about that one J-roguelike: Shiren. Has anyone tried it? Pokémon mystery dungeon is pretty interesting, but obviously more simplistic than other roguelikes in some ways.

 

[Sreggin Etah I]

what sucks about roguelikes is that they're 1 character games. We need a party based ASCII Roguelike with full party creation.

 

[dacencora]

what sucks about roguelikes is that they're 1 character games. We need a party based ASCII Roguelike with full party creation.

Not ascii or full party creation, but Pokémon Mystery Dungeon has a party and you can decide which Pokémon are in it. I didn’t play a whole lot of it, but it was pretty fun.

 

[Reality]

Shiren is more "arcadey" than PMD, the main thing is that ALL of the base game is "reset to level 1 on dungeon entry" instead of only bonus/postgame dungeons - as such consumable items found within a dungeon are far more important than in PMD (similiar to the role of scrolls in the original Rogue) , and the combat flow is also less "accidental encounters when looking for stairs" and instead a mix of actively hunting for XP when you have healing items in inventory or trying to do the bare minimum when you have none.

---- also I'm referring to older shiren, the later ones feature obscene grinding and practically feel like they have a differetn game loop entirely --

 

[Lucumo]

Just came here to say that agree. JRPG are just more polished than most western games, even outside of RPG genre.

Also i demand you guys to play The Worlds Ends With You

Totally overrated game which is so boring and easy that I quit during the second week. Apart from the battle mechanics being interesting, there is basically nothing positive to say about it. The game setting/style is generally meh, unless you are into that specific stuff. The story is dumb. The difficulty is both extremely easy and broken (I switched to the highest difficulty a few days in and I felt it made the game actually even easier - no challenge at all). And the game being so easy isn't helpful when the combat isn't fun. It just becomes a slog and with no part of the game being able to carry it, I dropped it in the end which is something I basically never do.

 

[Dishonoredbr]

Just came here to say that agree. JRPG are just more polished than most western games, even outside of RPG genre.

Also i demand you guys to play The Worlds Ends With You

Totally overrated game which is so boring and easy that I quit during the second week. Apart from the battle mechanics being interesting, there is basically nothing positive to say about it. The game setting/style is generally meh, unless you are into that specific stuff. The story is dumb. The difficulty is both extremely easy and broken (I switched to the highest difficulty a few days in and I felt it made the game actually even easier - no challenge at all). And the game being so easy isn't helpful when the combat isn't fun. It just becomes a slog and with no part of the game being able to carry it, I dropped it in the end which is something I basically never do.

How is the story dumb? People complain about JRPG being convulated and making no sense and twewy is like oposite of that. They know what story they want to tell from start and tell that story with good foreshadowing , hints, little details and themes that connect with the gameplay. It's not the best story ever but it's certainly a good story and it's well told imo. And most ''dumb'' aspect of the story are locked behind optional stuff and even those are pretty good and make sense with the rest..

The combat is not for everyone tho. It's very much a combat that you either really enjoy or just don't.

 

[JDR13]

There are plenty of non-standard JRPGs with unique battle systems, some of them are keepers, others are very loveable and intereesting until your 10th hour with them when you realize that depsite having a fancy Field or attack timeline system.. enemy quality invariably causes you to realize that you don't NEED to engage with the mechanics and can use a game-agnostic 3 beatsticks+1Healer approach (I think Chrono Cross and Bravely Default stand out as offenders off the top of my head).

Speaking of Chrono Cross, that's a game I've never been able to finish despite really wanting to like it. I've finished Chrono Trigger at least 5 or 6 times and consider it almost perfect except for the difficulty which is kind of weak.

There's something that just feels "off" about Cross though, and it's not just the combat. I think they went overboard with having so many characters that can join you. They should have focused on fewer characters and made them more interesting. Just my two cents.

 

[Sreggin Etah I]

There's something that just feels "off" about Cross though, and it's not just the combat. I think they went overboard with having so many characters that can join you. They should have focused on fewer characters and made them more interesting. Just my two cents.

Same here, i cannot get into that game no matter what, tried 2 times, quit after 3 hours. I don't know why but that game puts me to sleep.

 

[mediocrepoet]

There are plenty of non-standard JRPGs with unique battle systems, some of them are keepers, others are very loveable and intereesting until your 10th hour with them when you realize that depsite having a fancy Field or attack timeline system.. enemy quality invariably causes you to realize that you don't NEED to engage with the mechanics and can use a game-agnostic 3 beatsticks+1Healer approach (I think Chrono Cross and Bravely Default stand out as offenders off the top of my head).

Speaking of Chrono Cross, that's a game I've never been able to finish despite really wanting to like it. I've finished Chrono Trigger at least 5 or 6 times and consider it almost perfect except for the difficulty which is kind of weak.

There's something that just feels "off" about Cross though, and it's not just the combat. I think they went overboard with having so many characters that can join you. They should have focused on fewer characters and made them more interesting. Just my two cents.

The awful written accents of all the various characters didn't help either. The dead sea and city frozen in time at the brink of destruction was pretty cool as a set piece though.

 

[Machocruz]

Chrono Cross is the opposite for me. Didn't give a scrap about the characters, couldn't tell you what the story was about, and the combat was eh, but something about it felt "on". Maybe the setting, which was beautiful and different from the norm. And the OST is S-rank.

 

[TumblingTorin]

I tried playing Wizardry 6, the game was freezing randomly every 5-10 minutes and the UI was painful, tried Ultima 4 the game as just slow, cryptic, bad UI and the combat was really fucking boring, i can't stand old PC games UI anymore.

Funny you should say that, since Wizardry and Ultima pretty much made the JRPG genre. Those games are beloved in Japan, hell they still make Wizardry games over there.
Look at Ultima IV on the NES.

The creator of Dragon Quest, Yuji Hori, is a big fan of Wizardry and Ultima and used them as inspiration when creating Dragon Quest.

 

[TumblingTorin]

I don't know how I fucked up the quoting.

 

[Lord of Riva]

I don't know how I fucked up the quoting.

You can edit your posts to change that (top left near the timestamp of your post) and manually shift the [#Quote] or [#/Quotes] around to fix it. (- the #)

The forum also auto corrects a missing end quote [#/Quote] so to correct it you would have to delete the latest quote command and insert it where it belongs.
Maybe you just did not want to bother, but for the case of you being inexperienced with the message boards it may be worth to tell you.

 

[Sreggin Etah I]

Funny you should say that, since Wizardry and Ultima pretty much made the JRPG genre. Those games are beloved in Japan, hell they still make Wizardry games over there.
Look at Ultima IV on the NES.

The creator of Dragon Quest, Yuji Hori, is a big fan of Wizardry and Ultima and used them as inspiration when creating Dragon Quest.

I don't hate those games they just did not aged well, their UI is painful and their combat is slow, they are also cryptic om where/what you need to go/do to progress. Going from the fast paced combat/UI of JRPGs to old CRPGs clunkyness is hard.

 

[TumblingTorin]

I don't know how I fucked up the quoting.

You can edit your posts to change that (top left near the timestamp of your post) and manually shift the [#Quote] or [#/Quotes] around to fix it. (- the #)

The forum also auto corrects a missing end quote [#/Quote] so to correct it you would have to delete the latest quote command and insert it where it belongs.
Maybe you just did not want to bother, but for the case of you being inexperienced with the message boards it may be worth to tell you.

I've seen that on some of my posts, but I didn't see it on the post I messed up on.

I don't hate those games they just did not aged well, their UI is painful and their combat is slow, they are also cryptic om where/what you need to go/do to progress. Going from the fast paced combat/UI of JRPGs to old CRPGs clunkyness is hard.

To be fair, older JRPGs can be cryptic as well. It's probably a time period thing, a lot of games back then were cryptic. Modern games nowadays try to keep you from getting lost or confused. I remember loading up a old save for Final Fantasy 5 and trying to remember what point in the story I was at. CRPG have questlogs to give you an idea of what you should be doing and JRPGs tend to have synopsis to remind you of where you are in the plot. JRPGs could use more questlogs to keep track of all the side quests you can get.