After playing a lot of JRPGs, most CRPGs became tedious

[MRY]

There's something that just feels "off" about Cross though, and it's not just the combat. I think they went overboard with having so many characters that can join you. They should have focused on fewer characters and made them more interesting. Just my two cents.

I barely spent a few moments on Chrono Cross, but my impression is similar. One of the genius aspects of Chrono Trigger* is that each party member is an archetype with a unique silhouette (both visually and narratively). One of the reasons PS:T is such a memorable game is that it copied this idea from Chrono Trigger (something few western RPGs have done). Even a glance at Chrono Cross showed the opposite to be true. CT also takes an extremely simple narrative and then escalates and mildly convolutes it with time travel (the Millennial Fair is one of the most modest openings of a jRPG ever), but CC from the outset felt convoluted and overburdened.

(* I believe, though I can't prove, that CT took this from an underappreciated NES RPG The Magic of Scheherazade, which not only has the different-silhouette-archetype characters, it also has time travel, a robot companion, etc.)

 

[JDR13]

Funny you should say that, since Wizardry and Ultima pretty much made the JRPG genre. Those games are beloved in Japan, hell they still make Wizardry games over there.
Look at Ultima IV on the NES.

The creator of Dragon Quest, Yuji Hori, is a big fan of Wizardry and Ultima and used them as inspiration when creating Dragon Quest.

I don't hate those games they just did not aged well, their UI is painful and their combat is slow, they are also cryptic om where/what you need to go/do to progress. Going from the fast paced combat/UI of JRPGs to old CRPGs clunkyness is hard.

Fast paced combat like Dragon Quest and other JRPGs from back then?

 

[JDR13]

One of the reasons PS:T is such a memorable game is that it copied this idea from Chrono Trigger (something few western RPGs have done)

 

[Thac0]

One of the reasons PS:T is such a memorable game is that it copied this idea from Chrono Trigger (something few western RPGs have done)

PST is chock full with Japanese elements, FFVII esque 3D spell animations, characters have each individual themes which are used as leitmotifs in dialogue and story moments, unique character bound weapons and armor for each companion are all pretty rare in crpgs and jrpg common stay.
That is why the joke that PST is a JRPG is smarter than it seems on first glance.

 

[d1r]

It even has a good soundtrack... It all makes sense now...

 

[JDR13]

One of the reasons PS:T is such a memorable game is that it copied this idea from Chrono Trigger (something few western RPGs have done)

PST is chock full with Japanese elements, FFVII esque 3D spell animations, characters have each individual themes which are used as leitmotifs in dialogue and story moments, unique character bound weapons and armor for each companion are all pretty rare in crpgs and jrpg common stay.
That is why the joke that PST is a JRPG is smarter than it seems on first glance.

I'm pretty sure you can find elements of both JRPGs and CRPGs in almost any RPG if you look hard enough.

 

[Thac0]

I'm pretty sure you can find elements of both JRPGs and CRPGs in almost any RPG if you look hard enough.

 

[JDR13]

I'm pretty sure you can find elements of both JRPGs and CRPGs in almost any RPG if you look hard enough.

Cool. So they also mentioned FF VII after Archie Comics, The Chronicles of Amber, The Elementals, Shadowrun, etc...

 

[Thac0]

Cool. So they also mentioned FF VII after Archie Comics, The Chronicles of Amber, The Elementals, Shadowrun, etc...

I need a cope button

 

[JDR13]

Cool. So they also mentioned FF VII after Archie Comics, The Chronicles of Amber, The Elementals, Shadowrun, etc...

I need a cope button

No, you just need to stop trying so hard.

They mentioned a JRPG as one of their many influences. Big deal. I had literally just said that you can find elements of both sub-genres in most games.

 

[Sreggin Etah I]

Fast paced combat like Dragon Quest and other JRPGs from back then?

I don't play NES RPGs, instead i play the ports or remakes, right now i'm playing Dragon quest 3 SNES remake. The only NES RPG's i've played are Dragon Quest 4(because there's no good ports/remakes) and Mother 1/EarthBound Beginnings. Earthbound Beginnings combat is fast paced:



But i did not beat because the game is just a shitty Earthbound. Good music though.

 

[JDR13]

The only NES RPG's i've played are Dragon Quest 4(because there's no good ports/remakes)

I thought they did a DQ 4 remake awhile back on the 3DS or something like that. It sounded better than the original because you could actually control your companions in battle.

 

[Thac0]

They mentioned a JRPG as one of their many influences. Big deal. I had literally just said that you can find elements of both sub-genres in most games.

Learn to read.

Final Fantasy are the ONLY games mentioned in the credits. The rest are from quotes where MCA took his inspiration for the game from.
Saying that PST is not inspired by JRPGs in an unusual amount for a CRPG is an unholdable position.

What it is is a CRPG which draws from the best that JRPGs have to offer, and integrates that into the mesh in a clever way.
That happens pretty rarely, but usually leads to great results. The SaGa series for example brings many elements from Western roleplaying into a JRPG and is considered one of the best series on the market for that reason.

Then there is stuff like Anachronox that kinda fucks up the fusion, and stuff like Grotesque Tactics and Septerra Core where the fusion leads to shit, but I still wish it was done more often. Every single CRPG with companions needs heavy use of leitmotifs, and they need it yesterday.

 

[Sreggin Etah I]

The only NES RPG's i've played are Dragon Quest 4(because there's no good ports/remakes)

I thought they did a DQ 4 remake awhile back on the 3DS or something like that. It sounded better than the original because you could actually control your companions in battle.

You meant the DS version right ? i will try the DS version on MelonDS now that emulator is stable. the Desmume DS emulator fucking sucks and runs like shit, i can run 3D PSP games like God of War and Monster Hunter Freedom Unite on PPSSPP emulator but i can't run some SNES looking 2D games on Desmume, MelonDS is much better.

 

[JDR13]

They mentioned a JRPG as one of their many influences. Big deal. I had literally just said that you can find elements of both sub-genres in most games.

Learn to read.

Final Fantasy are the ONLY games mentioned in the credits. The rest are from quotes where MCA took his inspiration for the game from.
Saying that PST is not inspired by JRPGs in an unusual amount for a CRPG is an unholdable position..

Dude... just stop.

That's a quote from 1 person not the entire development team, and you can't even tell if he's talking specifically about PST or inspiration in general.

The fact that you even took the time to search for something like that is pretty funny.

 

[Rean]

Chris Avellone please come back and confirm you and all your fellow writers were weebs once you're done sorting out your life, we're fighting a battle for the future of RPGs and EARTH ITSELF here.https://rpgcodex.net/forums/members/jdr13.7285/

 

[Sreggin Etah I]

I have only found this on google:

https://groups.google.com/g/comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg/c/TsooR8Y28KE/m/epIHBB2pKOkJ?pli=1

no idea if it's fake or not.

 

[MRY]

I didn’t even think this was a controversial proposition!

Here you go! Some Avellone quotes (linked to source):

"Q: What is the most influential yet obscure game you have ever played and why do you find it so important in your gaming history?

A: Well, in terms of influential yet obscure, that cuts a lot of games out – I feel a lot of the more common games have had a big influence on my designs (Portal, Chrono Trigger, Ultima Underworld)."

---

"Q: What would you say is your personal favorite game of all time?

A: Tough, some old school choices: Chrono Trigger, System Shock 2, Wasteland, or Ultima Underworld 1."

---

"Chrono Trigger is one of my top RPGs of all time."

---

"Chrono Trigger was clearly an RPG to me - one of the best ever, even."

---

"My favorite PC RPG of all time? That's tough, since there are some console titles in the mix (usually SNES), and some of my top 10 games were for the Commodore 64. I have a special love Chrono Trigger, Wasteland 1, Final Fantasy III, but my favorite PC RPG is actually a tie between Fallout 1 and Ultima Underworld, although System Shock 2 came so close to being an RPG, it could have been a contender."

---

"Other games that especially grabbed me were Wasteland 1, Chrono Trigger, Ultima, Eternal Dagger, Ultima Underworld 1, along with a host of Infocom titles and some even older adventure titles that might give away my age if I mentioned them."

Okay, you say, sure, Chrono Trigger is apparently Avellone's favorite (or top three) games of all time, and in his top three influences (top two that existed before Planescape). But Avellone's just one person on PS:T -- Feargus was the production director, and there's no evidence he liked Chrono Trigger. Oh wait...

I asked Urquhart if there was any franchise other than Dungeon Siege 3 they would like to work on.

Urquhart snickered and sarcastically said, “Chocobo Racing.” He followed up with a more serious response, “If I could come across everything that I played I would have to go with Chrono Trigger. I think Chrono Trigger was one I really enjoyed.”

"Shut up, MRY!" you cry. "It's not Chris's face on the box, it's not Feargus's!"

And then comes the ultimate anime betrayal:

RPGDot: Your favourite game, both electronical and board?

Guido Henkel: My favorite computer game is still "Dungeon Master," and no other game has been able to hold a candle to it. It is followed by "Warcraft II," "Chrono Trigger" and "Gauntlet: Dark Legacy."

The prosecution rests.

 

[Rean]

I've only found this on google:

https://groups.google.com/g/comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg/c/TsooR8Y28KE/m/epIHBB2pKOkJ?pli=1

no idea if it's fake or not.

CONFIRMED

Chris is a weeb and PS:T is a JRPG. And JDR13 is Karissa.

How will WRPGfags ever recover?

 

[Sreggin Etah I]

Quoting "Chris Avellone":

I have played FF7 (and loved it), and I think the influences it had on PST was
the spells (which Ken Lee designed, and did a damn good job), and the fact that
each type of player character would stick with one 'type' of weapon based on their
personality or their personal preference.

As for the amnesia, Annah and Grace/Tifa and Aeris, as well as the three
incarnations at the end -- I assure you that was not based on FF7. The amnesia was
a plot device that seemed new to me (at the time) and worked well with the plot,
Annah and Grace were based on (be prepared for lameness) Betty and Veronica from
Archie and Ginger and Mary Ann from Gilligan's Island -- these romantic triangles
seemed to work, so we went with characters that were similar (spunky with a few
rough edges, vs. prim and proper), and the three incarnations were chosen just
because of the Rule-of-Three in Planescape and because they were the ones that had
the most impact on the player's life throughout the game.

So he said that Planescape has some FF7 influences, but the plot was not influenced by FF7.

 

[JDR13]

Quoting "Chris Avellone":

I have played FF7 (and loved it), and I think the influences it had on PST was
the spells (which Ken Lee designed, and did a damn good job), and the fact that
each type of player character would stick with one 'type' of weapon based on their
personality or their personal preference.

As for the amnesia, Annah and Grace/Tifa and Aeris, as well as the three
incarnations at the end -- I assure you that was not based on FF7. The amnesia was
a plot device that seemed new to me (at the time) and worked well with the plot,
Annah and Grace were based on (be prepared for lameness) Betty and Veronica from
Archie and Ginger and Mary Ann from Gilligan's Island -- these romantic triangles
seemed to work, so we went with characters that were similar (spunky with a few
rough edges, vs. prim and proper), and the three incarnations were chosen just
because of the Rule-of-Three in Planescape and because they were the ones that had
the most impact on the player's life throughout the game.

So he said that Planescape has some FF7 influences, but the plot was not influenced by FF7.

Be careful... you might trigger an aneurysm in some of the more hardcore fans here with that one.

 

[Thac0]

Be careful... you might trigger an aneurysm in some of the more hardcore fans here with that one.

Go be a nigger somewhere else, noone in the thread talked about story.
Only that PST is directly influenced by Final Fantasy in how it uses music, animations, weapons and visual character design.

 

[JDR13]

Be careful... you might trigger an aneurysm in some of the more hardcore fans here with that one.

Go be a nigger somewhere else, noone in the thread talked about story.
Only that PST is directly influenced by Final Fantasy in how it uses music, animations, weapons and visual character design.

You really are quite the butthurt little faggot over this aren't you?

No one said there wasn't any influence, but it's obvious that FF wasn't the primary inspiration that you're trying to make it out to be.

 

[Thac0]

Be careful... you might trigger an aneurysm in some of the more hardcore fans here with that one.

Go be a nigger somewhere else, noone in the thread talked about story.
Only that PST is directly influenced by Final Fantasy in how it uses music, animations, weapons and visual character design.

You really are quite the butthurt little faggot over this aren't you?

No one said there wasn't any influence, but it's obvious that FF wasn't the primary inspiration that you're trying to make it out to be.

Uff. It is probably futile, but let me lay it out peacefully one last time.
What I meant is that people like mondblut , who hate both JRPGs with a passion and dislike PST while calling it a JRPG are neither retarded nor do it purely from edge. The game has a ton of Japanese elements, so if you dislike them calling PST a JRPG is valid mockery.
Those elements however lead to me enjoying the game much more in turn, since they are rarely savoured together with the strengths of CRPGs.

 

[JDR13]

Be careful... you might trigger an aneurysm in some of the more hardcore fans here with that one.

Go be a nigger somewhere else, noone in the thread talked about story.
Only that PST is directly influenced by Final Fantasy in how it uses music, animations, weapons and visual character design.

You really are quite the butthurt little faggot over this aren't you?

No one said there wasn't any influence, but it's obvious that FF wasn't the primary inspiration that you're trying to make it out to be.

Uff. It is probably futile, but let me lay it out peacefully one last time.
What I meant is that people like mondblut , who hate both JRPGs with a passion and dislike PST while calling it a JRPG are neither retarded nor do it purely from edge. The game has a ton of Japanese elements, so if you dislike them calling PST a JRPG is valid mockery.
Those elements however lead to me enjoying the game much more in turn, since they are rarely savoured together with the strengths of CRPGs.

Again, no one said it doesn't have any JRPG elements. Like I said in my original comment, you can find elements of both genres in most RPGs. Which makes sense since the JRPG genre as a whole was inspired by crpgs.

FF is mentioned along with a lot of other influences, but it's never focused on as a primary inspiration in any interview I've seen. It's only mentioned in passing or as a response when someone asks about it like in the Avellone interview, and I think he makes it pretty clear in that interview that it's not as big a piece of the pie as you're trying to make it seem.