Game News Age of Decadence Demo Released

[empi]

A bit late.

 

[hiver]

No its not.

 

[Vault Dweller]

On the other hand, I also came to suspect that Carrinas might just have screwed me over big-time and sent me on a suicide mission. If so, major incline, but perhaps such a betrayal ought to be emphasised in the text description of the initial battle for the sake of clarity?

He admits it after the fight.

 

[Curunír]

I wouldn't have thought there are so many pussies on the Codex of all places...

 

[Grunker]

Press "?" and everything will be explained to you. Are we off to a good start now?

I know about that. I still want a manual that says "this is how shit works". When you add a point here, this is what happens.

Not a strategy guide, just a manual that details it all. Even with a manual that describes everything I can still build a retarded character because I underestimate the power of one thing or overestimate the power of something else... Anyway, rolling around blindly flailing with our spastic arms is not a fun way to learn.

See Wizardry 8's manual for something a long the lines of what I want - but even better, make a real player's handbook. I'd be willing to help if your resources are stretched.

I can't think of an RPG where specific characters don't utilize the same tactics (what works for the build, basically), so I wouldn't call that a major complaint.

I can't think of an RPG with a good spellcasting system where I don't use a multitude of different spells. Wizardry, Baldur's Gate. I'm not saying this because I want spells in AoD, mind, but something to replace the options they bringwould've been nice.

Compared to what?

Temple of Elemental Evil, Baldur's Gate (hell, all IE games), Wizardry, shitty games like the WoW-mmos have bad combat but plenty of options and variety in the ability system, Dragon Age, Dark Sun: Shattered Lands, Knights of the Chalice. I can name many more.

Look, what I'm saying is this: Your combat engine is fundamentally better than some of these games in some aspects - especially in the differences between different armors and armors, and the underlying basic rules (which are better than the non-D&D ones - too early too say whether you beat that old cronie). But those are all passive mechanics. The active stuff, what you actually do on your turn, varies very little compared to those games. Some of the games haven't got much to do but the fact that they are party based add to the depth because positioning becomes much more important or because there is more to do when it's your turn.

In any case, I really (like really, really) like the fundamentals of your combat system (I'm fapping to the weapon types, can't wait to use more different weapons), but I'm not having as much fun as I could have while actually in combat.

Whoa. Does everyone here is an avid fucking fan of old-school, turn-based RPG and Wizardry in particular? I didn't know. Besides, last time I checked these games (Wiz, Bard's Tales, etc) had a habit of raping you hard.

No, but some of those you are accusing of wanting a cake-walk are. Oh and by the way, we've come a long way by then. Were those games perfect? I hated trash mobs in Wizardry VIII, and I hated random fights killing you in the beginning too. I loved the difficulty later on because you were mostly in control there, gimped by a shitty build because you were and idiot or some shit like that (though one of the true beautiful things in Wizardry VIII was how much shit was viable and how many combinations worked). Early on much was just a roll of the die. And if you gotta do it with the RNG, difficulty becomes a matter of tedium.

I'm not sure if you noticed, but these complaints aren't universal. A growing number of people is beating the crap out of everyone without relying too much on factors they can't control. Is it possible that the system isn't as simple as you think? Just a thought.

No. It's possible that I haven't unlocked the combat-win code. That has nothing to do with simplicity. Also, I think you're misunderstanding me:

I'm not saying the combat mechanics are simply, I'm saying what you actually do in combat is. I.e. difference in weapon types and the underlying stats are obviously complex, the simplicity is in choosing between 2 or 3 things to do once you've cracked the combat-code for your particular character. So when I click that button to attack with my hammer, tons of shit goes on. Many stats affect the swing, the fact that it's a hammer I'm using is important. But it doesn't change the fact that what I acutally do in combat is clicking power attack and then clicking the hammer. Again. And again. And again.

I said Day 1 complaints about the difficulty aren't valid, so chill, bro.

If it wasn't apparant, which I guess it wasn't, I actually like the combat. I mean it's better than Fallout's, that's for damn sure, but Fallout's combat is shit so meh. I just don't like the combat in any way as much as I could have considering the potential. My criticism mainly stems from the fact that my hopes were more or less met in all other aspects, but the combat dissappoints.

game is gud, for teh most part

Can't wait to play the entire thing.

 

[Grunker]

We are testing the new dialogue screens with bigger fonts, check them out here:

http://www.irontowerstudio.com/forum/index.php/topic,2527.0.html

Contrary to @Dark Underlord and many others I actually like the font. It fits aestethically with the game. No need to change it in my mind, though I guess you could have an option to switch for those who hate it. The new size looks cool in the first two cases, but in 1080 height it looks very... blocky? My two cents.

Why didn't you just make the town interface like Darklands, and have some nice pretty pictures in the background? Then not have the blatant [CLICK THIS TO WIN] dialogue choices, and people wouldn't expect to be able to interact with the environment, it could all be done through text...
Would've been nice.

For whatever it's worth, I disagree with these sort of opinions. I don't really mind whether it's pretty-pictures-town or 3D town. I'm not thrown out of my immersion by neither the I-WIN buttons - as they are usually hidden in a long set of options - and sometimes there are more than one. I've also failed while clicking them a couple of times.

Different games have different weird premises that doesn't feel "realistic" whatever that means. Doesn't mean you can't accept the game's meta (I mean, if you can immerse yourself in three pretty town-pictures + text-adventure but 3D-town + text-adventure TOTALLY THROWS YOU OUT BRO then might-maybe-perhaps you haven't given the meta a chance to sink in yet).

 

[Gwendo]

This game should have been 2D and like Darklands, because it's more like Darlands than any other game, so it looks bad in 3D, except for the combat.

I know it's too late to change, but I would dig the game more if it were text adventure with pretty backgrounds, with the 3D left for the combat.

 

[Running Fox]

Question 1: if I start dialog crit killing my way into the palace, can I escape it without confronting "Atidas" (head honcho, I forget his name)? I find it kind of lame being able to steal the legionary armor but not being able to exit the palace.

Question 2: is there a way in the demo to pass the [bodycount] check with "Atidas" if I start dialog crit killing his people?

Question 3: is there a use for the 2 blue, warm magic things (one in the mine, on in the crumbled tower) except for giving the one from the mine to Dellar to meet "Atidas"?

Question 4: is the ring you get from Feng magical in some way?

Question 5: if you pay for the villagers at the gate to enter, and their leader trusts you to find his gold in the abandoned village, is there this village in the demo?

Question 6: why is there no indication how much skill you need and a way to increase it mid-dialog? I find myself hoarding skillpoints till I need them and reloading if I fail the checks...

 

[jagged-jimmy]

First technical:
1. Tipp 'm' for map - tipp 'm' again to go back to game. Simple. Every screen should work that way.
2. Camera scrolling/zooming must be faster, same for the mouse speed. I don't know if thats just me (Intel T6600 and Geforce 105M laptop should do, though).
3. Maybe i am missing something, but there is no possibility to inspect anything? Like check how badly your buddies are wounded or see the name of the "known" NPCs.

Gameplay:
Wanted to go with pure mercenary fighter, who just takes orders and tries to survive. Needless to say, most skill checks fail and all combat encounters are still tough and suicidal. Currently stuck at trying to get to Antidas - need to deal with raiders (impossible) or check out Aurelians (my fake accent gives me away). So no progress there - to dumb and a pussy. So i joined the imperials. First fight was challenging, let my buddies die - had to fight them regardless. Needed a couple of tries, but doable. Second mission is a suicide. Heavy armored archers are fucking me over for 10 dmg average, while absorbing 5 dmg per hit and running away. Also outnumbered. Skills 45/45 sword/block. try to fight heavy armored tower guards instead? Shield splitted - head next.

Any advice on semi-badass fighter?

 

[TwinkieGorilla]

Hey VD. Well, I couldn't stay away. Consider that a compliment to the allure of your game.

Positive: I figured out what I was doing wrong and was happy to have figured it out on my own without hand-holding.
Negative: The previous build I had wouldn't let me solve the Carrius quest in any of the available ways. I had to create a new build.
Positive: The previous build might have been shit and not thought through. Specific and tactical builds is a plus.
Negative: I shouldn't have been completely penalized and backed into a wall for the build I did have, though.

Bug: I noticed during re-loads the interface stops functioning (for instance M won't bring up the map). Unless this is an anti-F9-spam feature.

 

[Grimlorn]

We are testing the new dialogue screens with bigger fonts, check them out here:

http://www.irontowerstudio.com/forum/index.php/topic,2527.0.html

I like the bolded look in the 1080p screen but when I open the image in a new tab and full screen it the font looks just as small as in the game. Oddly enough it looks bigger on the forum link. I'm on a 1920x1080 monitor so not sure why it's this way.

TwinkieGorilla Some places the map just doesn't work. Usually in certain buildings. Like the Merchant Building for example, you can't use the map until you walk outside.

 

[Livonya]

This thread is hysterical. In the last 10 years the first thing that I end up doing with almost every single game that I purchase is to try to find a mod that makes the game more difficult.

Sometimes I can't find a mod that does that and I have to end up doing it myself.

I want to be challenged. I want a high learning curve. Games become boring once there isn't anything left to learn or master.

I am skipping this demo as I will buy the game, so I prefer to wait for it to be completed, but I really hope the AoD crew don't get brow beaten into making their game easier.

Other than the interface problems, everything that I am hearing in this thread sounds fun. Can't wait to play the finished product.

EDIT: Actually, am downloading now... don't want to spoil it, but I am getting sick of reading this thread and trying not to catch spoilers... maybe best to play it now before I glean too many spoilers from this thread.

 

[Grunker]

What is hysterical about this debate is that both parts flat out refuse to pay any attention what-so-ever to what the other part says. You say

I want to be challenged

thus ignoring the fact that every post about problematic difficulty has been about the difficulty being the wrong kind - not cries to make it easier. Meanwhile, the "difficulty is problematic"-crowd is constantly being reinforced by more people reiterating the fact that the RNG is too much in control even though Vince has pointed to them perhaps lacking to use certain options at their disposal.

So fuck both you and them. We're getting to a point where the debate is more about whether what Vince says is true and if so whether something could be done to explain to players what their options are (not what options to pick - what their options are). We're also now discussing the RNG specifically and whether combat options are limited/diverse enough.

We'll get nowhere if dumbfucks like you will keep constantly jumping in and reiterating some point made 10 pages ago that we've already moved on from in a stunning display of inability to fucking read and listen to what other people say instead of just straw-manning their arguments ad libitum.

But you haven't even played the fucking demo so what exactly makes you think you have even half a worthy opinion considering Vince doesn't even seem to think one day of playing the demo (which is more than you've done) is enough to judge the difficulty.

 

[Livonya]

Like I said, this thread is hysterical.

 

[Elhoim]

What about this font?

 

[Infinitron]

Elhoim

It's an improvement.

But the bottom window, with the dialogue choices. It's almost completely empty. Use some of that real estate! If choices are always going to be so short, there's no reason not to make fonts huge.
Or you could add a little DA2-style pictogram next to each choice.

On the other hand, I can understand why you don't want the choice font to be larger than the font of what the person is saying...

 

[villain of the story]

How about an option to select our own font of choice in the game menu, from a fonts folder in game directory? You must realise, once you start asking whether this font is better or that font, you'll never end up at a satisfying point.

 

[Melcar]

So... does it work on Wine? Haven't had a chance to even download it yet.

works ok for a bit and then crashes reporting that the video memory is used up although it ONLY uses ~400Mb out of 1024Mb ... oh, BTW, the combat demo worked ok, but it looks like in the mean time the engine switched from OpenGL ( and emulated DirectX ) to proper DirectX9 so comparisons are not useful

Mine crashes when I try to load a game. Shit. When I get my desktop up and running I will try with fglrx and see (stuck with mesa on my laptop). Yeah, the combat demo worked fine, but now:

Bah! No Linux client and it doesn't work on Wine. Pfft. Losers.

 

[Infinitron]

Elhoim
You know what? I think the size is good now, but perhaps what needs improvement is color.

Look at PS:T's dialogues:

Different colors for different things. And a softer contrast between text and background colors, overall. That adds so much to readability!

 

[zeitgeist]

But the bottom window, with the dialogue choices. It's almost completely empty. Use some of that real estate! If choices are always going to be so short, there's no reason not to make fonts huge.

The font size should be consistent with the overall dialogue/font size in the other window. However, the spacing between the choice rows is the most glaring fault, it should also be the same as normal text spacing. Perhaps the emptiness should be filled with additional choices instead...

 

[Excidium]

The text on the top of the screen and the choices on the bottom is also very annoying, specially in high resolutions but I think you guys got that already. Just reiterating.

 

[TwinkieGorilla]

TwinkieGorilla Some places the map just doesn't work. Usually in certain buildings. Like the Merchant Building for example, you can't use the map until you walk outside.

Nope. That's not what I'm talking about.

Let's say I fucked up and wanted to re-load. I re-load. Game loads fine but when hitting any keyboard keys, the icons on the interface light up but do nothing. Esc key, "M", "J", nothing but movement works...but it doesn't matter since map triggers won't work either (approaching the palace does nothing). So I have to Tab-Alt and right click the icon in order to exit the game and restart.

 

[hiver]

New font: Its too... bright. It strikes out too much. I think my eyes will start watering after reading it like that for longer times.

 

[Excidium]

TwinkieGorilla Some places the map just doesn't work. Usually in certain buildings. Like the Merchant Building for example, you can't use the map until you walk outside.

Nope. That's not what I'm talking about.

Let's say I fucked up and wanted to re-load. I re-load. Game loads fine but when hitting any keyboard keys, the icons on the interface light up but do nothing. Esc key, "M", "J", nothing but movement works...but it doesn't matter since map triggers won't work either (approaching the palace does nothing). So I have to Tab-Alt and right click the icon in order to exit the game and restart.

That happened to me once, after I quickloaded during a conversation.

 

[VentilatorOfDoom]

On Combat Difficulty

A lot of people seem upset about the level of difficulty they're experiencing with combat in AoD. Can't say I'm surprised because I anticipated that. Combat has become more difficult since the beta build we've played for the preview and frankly, I thought it was difficult enough already back then (for the unwashed masses - which includes me ololol).
I don't think that encounters have been beefed up with the notable exception of the assassin/bodyguard mercenary at the beginning of the game, it's rather that the available skill points have been reduced significantly. Your starting skill values are lower, you get less starting skillpoints and the bonus from high INT has also been reduced. On top of that the rewards for completing quests have been reduced also. All this adds up, and less skillpoints means a more difficult time.

The worst thing about it is that you hardly have any wiggle-room left concerning the skill point distribution. It's probably a bad idea to base your balancing decisions entirely on the feedback from testers who played the game for 6 months upside down and know fucking everything about, well anything in the game. That won't reflect well the impressions a first-time player has of the game.

Anyway, the situation is harsher than before but those who say playing a purely combat focused character is "impossible" and combat is "unwinnable" are wrong. Rather than just calling you stupid, I'll describe the demo from the viewpoint of my assassin (I just finished the demo with). Perhaps that gives you some hints and always keep in mind that while dying a lot early on might infuriate you, you will giggle and feel good about yourself once you've made it. Needless to emphasise that the rest of this post will be spoilerish - so don't read on if you don't want to be spoiled.

I just started with a standard assassin, then juggled around some points:
STR 7
Dex 9
CON 6
PER 7
INT 7
CHA 4

Note that formerly I would have shot for a higher INT, but since the INT bonus has been reduced significantly, more balanced characters seem more viable now. Another point of interest is, that through almost the whole demo I used Phrygian armor (max AP 10) so having only 8 DEX and putting the one point elsewhere deserves consideration.

I think I've put 2 or 3 points into daggers and the rest into block. Having a higher block value (higher than dodge) you will start with a buckler in your inventory. To kill the merc guarding the merchant at the begiinning of the game, I needed 4 attempts. Throughout all the demo I've mainly used dagger-flurry and fast attacks. Done a power attack every now and then.

With the vignette finished I went over to Feng and did his quest (also paid for all his obvious fake crap), killed the rival loremaster as promised (+1 word of honor), then went to the gate and paid for the refugees. Went to the market, spoke to the refugee dude and got an armor as reward (plus a quest, not in the demo).
The skillpoints I got I've invested into crafting to bring crafting up to 50. Decomposed crap and crafted new shit for my char.
Did the following quests in Teron (killing everyone):
- Kebab dude (the guy who steals from you) killed the thief and the guard, had to pay 200 gold wergeld for the guard
(needed 3 attempts to survive)
- female pickpocket plot, killed all 3
- listened to the preacher

Afterwards I've made the next assassin quest (spies) killed all three with little difficulty, had to put a few points into steal to discover the documents.
Meanwhile I had block at 50. There wasn't anything left to do, at least nothing I'm aware of, except infiltrating the palace which I didn't attempt because I really couldn't spare skillpoints for non-combat stuff. So with nothing left to do except the raiders camp and the aurelian outpost, I thought it was about time to pay a visit to Miltiates. Went with him, killed the 2 dudes, made the deal with Milti, then killed the next 3 dudes. Everything with little difficulty. (notice the small chamber in Milti's house? Use it to fight the fuckers one-on-one)
Killing and looting all these people got me lot's of iron armor and shit, so I upgraded to Phrygian iron amor, and a steel dagger (masterwork, hardened edge).

When going to the raiders camp I had block 50 and enough SP to spare to bring up CS to 45 (required to take down their leader in dialogue). With their leader gone I killed everyone there on first attempt, no fancy stuff, just dagger-flurried them. The 3 archers were even polite enough to shoot their own hammer dude, depriving me of a valuable skillpoint. Fucking idiots. I'm pretty sure the leader had steel stuff to loot -> upgrade time! Report to Dellar.
"I've killed everyone, works for you?"

Now on to the one fight that's really difficult. The Aurelian Outpost. No talk (wouldn't have had the skills anyway) just kill.
You're facing 3 soldiers, 1 crossbow dude and the captain. I tried it several times with little luck.
I had some skillpoints to spare before, in the end I've put a few more points into daggers and all the rest into Block (62).
One time I was so close. SO CLOSE. I had 35(!) HP left after killing the other 4 dudes with only the captain remaining. I even had him down to severely wounded. He pawned me anyway. Now lets check our options. Reloading. The good thing about killing and looting so many people is: you've got some coin to spare. (in my case ~2500) So I went and purchased 8 throwing nets. Then I sold all the bronze pilums I've had and acquired 20 iron pilums. I decomposed all that stuff, also an iron gladius I still had, and then crafted 10 iron pilums and 10 iron handox (masterwork +1-3 dmg, hardened edge vs DR+2) . I intended to entangle the captain, then throw shit at him. As it turned out, I didn't even need the nets. The captain stood there, shooting his crossbow, I stood there throwing handoxes at him. Guess who survived to tell the tale? (cue: handoxes are fucking ... awesome)
I've looted the fuckers (massive steel Praetor armor) went back to town for healing and to craft steel Phrygian armor) and came back.
Meanwhile they've barricaded the compound. Well, after eradicating the actual dudes, fighting the rest is but a minor obstacle.


Investigating the mine was futile. Through the kills I had enough SP to bring up Traps to 36, to even survive entering the mine, but of course I lacked lore/pick lock to do shit in there. Doesn't matter in the demo, but could be bad in the actual game (not being able to get the mc guffin and stuff).

With everyone in my way assassinated and the most difficult fight behind me, all there was left to do was returning to Asassin bigwig Neolos to wrap up the questline.





Both ensuing fights were extremely easy. The only serious obstacle left was the end fight with Fulvio+Neolos vs the Imperial guards boss. Jesus, I had 8% THC against that dude with a dagger and Neoles died. Reloaded. Using nets on the captain and throwing handoxes saved the day once more.




So, long story short. I've killed everyone. Everyone in my path. Never picked a combat-avoiding solution (despite having high bodycount would have made it easy to tell enemies to fuck off) and prevailed. If you think "combat is unwinnable", consider your options and try harder.

Here's the endgame character screen, note that I increased block from 65 to 75 (20 skillpoints) during the endgame-sequence after the Aurelian Outpost, but I wouldn't have needed that. I'm pretty sure block 65 would have sufficed. So in the end I had ~40 SP to spare. I sure would have prefered it to get these SP earlier, for instance to do stuff in the mine.


A melee assassin can do just fine. Hope that helps.