Game News Age of Decadence Demo Released

[Melcar]

Well, at least the installer works.

 

[Black]

The way I understand what the old guy is saying
Combat with a non-combat oriented character- you're fucked
Combat with a combat oriented character- you may have a chance.

 

[Mrowak]

Amazing work! I've only had time to play a scholar, but I must say I am impressed by the sheer number of alternative solutions there are. I am buying it day one.

Thanks.

Still, at the very end I felt trolled like hell when my outspoken scholar entered "unavoidable" random encounter and had to die in pain, because he couldn't do shit.

Which one? There are no unavoidable random encounters, so you must have done something.

If you mean the ambush at the end of the MG questline, it happened because you threatened Mercato instead of handling it more diplomatically. There are several options at the ambush, but I guess your stats/skills were too low.

Hmm... this means one must have insanely high scores (at least for the scope of the demo). I toyed with skillpoints - experimented with them as I had the surplus of 21 points before the "negotiations". After one such "distribution" I had Charisma 10, Persuasion 50, Streetwise 55 and Trading 41, and I still failed to persuade Mercato - had to threaten him to join.

True, I put lots of points into [Disguise], [Etiquette] and [Lore], but somehow it was enough to finish all the main quests without major trouble, without those extra 21 points. Also, it may be just me but it's a little bit off when after selecting [Persuade/Streetwise] the second check is [Streetwise/Trading]. Like, really?

Regardless, I love the demo. Can't wait for the full game.

 

[Deleted member 7219]

I think I'm done with the demo now.

My opinion is still positive, the game looks professionally done, the graphics are excellent and the quality of the writing is high. I also liked the variety of factions, and the different ways of doing things. Skill checks in dialogue were good too.

The combat is a huge problem though. I thought before quitting for good I'd see how things went with a combat-oriented character (I had always talked my way out of things before). So, I put my points in things like strength, and skills like swords, block etc. Even with these I couldn't fight more than 1 enemy without dying. I could handle 2 with 1 ally, but the ally always died before I could kill one of the bad guys (I reloaded and tried again a few times to make sure). I really do think this is unacceptable. Bear in mind this is THE START OF THE GAME.

 

[Mrowak]

Ok, guys - spoil me... Is there any way to finish the quest for Feng (as a loremaster) without fighting, without losing reputation and without Feng getting exiled?

 

[HanoverF]

I let Feng get exiled cause he tried to rip me off as a diff character M:
After completing the merchant quest line I was sent to endofdemoistan and immediately jumped by three guys who I spotted but the only option was to try to sneak by or charge in like braveheart, no buying them off with trade, or disguising, or bluffing with streetwise. And trying to sneak by resulted in being teleported right in the middle of all three guys. Oh and I got skillpoints after completing the quest but I wasn't given a chance to spend them before being sent off to the random non-random encounter.

 

[hiver]

Er...maybe that's why I suggested having a combat tutorial similar to the combat demo? So people can get familiar with it?

As to that i dont see how that would improve things generally in terms of keeping the game toight as toiger, man...

It would have to be something outside of the game... and basically i dont see a reason for all that if you need to adjust just a few first fights. it would just feel... artificial. added. wrong... i dont know.
I would rather see a nicer curve in the game itself i guess.

I was replying to that other part of your post and no hard feelings mkay? That was just comic shouting stuff for extra effect, not an actual angry rage.

Linear, unskippable fights require a different approach.

Anyway, I hear what you're saying; I'll see what we can do but can't promise you much.

Im not asking for myself. Ill go in and die fifty times in a row happy as i was when i received dodge enhancement from raiders. Like... big grin happy.

Im asking for yourselves. I want to see this work, get you at least enough money - or even more- and then we all get more AoDs. (ok that means myself too. but in a different sense!) of course without any pandering to that other crowd nobody likes.

And, really... i mean, there will still be wagons and wagons of butthurt of "GHHaaawwd! your combat killed me!!! no fair!! - coming in after those first few fights (if you adjust them), as can already be seen.

 

[Vault Dweller]

Ok, guys - spoil me... Is there any way to finish the quest for Feng (as a loremaster) without fighting, without losing reputation and without Feng getting exiled?

Yes.

 

[hiver]

I think I'm done with the demo now.

My opinion is still positive, the game looks professionally done, the graphics are excellent and the quality of the writing is high. I also liked the variety of factions, and the different ways of doing things. Skill checks in dialogue were good too.

The combat is a huge problem though. I thought before quitting for good I'd see how things went with a combat-oriented character (I had always talked my way out of things before). So, I put my points in things like strength, and skills like swords, block etc. Even with these I couldn't fight more than 1 enemy without dying. I could handle 2 with 1 ally, but the ally always died before I could kill one of the bad guys (I reloaded and tried again a few times to make sure). I really do think this is unacceptable. Bear in mind this is THE START OF THE GAME.

Maybe playing the combat demo would help you.

 

[Mrowak]

I let Feng get exiled cause he tried to rip me off as a diff character M:
After completing the merchant quest line I was sent to endofdemoistan and immediately jumped by three guys who I spotted but the only option was to try to sneak by or charge in like braveheart, no buying them off with trade, or disguising, or bluffing with streetwise. And trying to sneak by resulted in being teleported right in the middle of all three guys. Oh and I got skillpoints after completing the quest but I wasn't given a chance to spend them before being sent off to the random non-random encounter.

Haha - same happened to me. The only way out of it:

1). around 40 points in sneaking
2). persuading Mercato to join the lord - it requires crazy skill scores though. After some testing it turned out that of the following: [Persuasion], [Streetwise] and [Trade] at least two must be over 50, and the third one must be 50.

I think that ending needs reworking - it's too much dependant on the high scores of similar skill. With two options available to you:

1). [Persuasion/Streetwise] + [Streetwise/Trading] - high scores in three skills required.
2). [Trading] + [Trading/Persuasion] - high scores in two skills required.

... I can't help but point out that if both checks require [Trading] that's not much of an alternative.

I think that with the first option the game should require a little bit lower scores - it's three different abilities after all. Alternatively, [Trading] could be removed from it the first option.

 

[Mrowak]

Ok, guys - spoil me... Is there any way to finish the quest for Feng (as a loremaster) without fighting, without losing reputation and without Feng getting exiled?

Yes.

Shit, I might create another loremaster, after the first one.

 

[Vault Dweller]

2). persuading Mercato to join the lord - it requires crazy skill scores though. After some testing it turned out that of the following: [Persuasion], [Streetwise] and [Trade] at least two must be over 50, and the third one must be 50.

I think that ending needs reworking - it's too much dependant on the high scores of similar skill. With two options available to you:

1). [Persuasion/Streetwise] + [Streetwise/Trading] - high scores in three skills required.
2). [Trading] + [Trading/Persuasion] - high scores in two skills required.

... I can't help but point out that if both checks require [Trading] that's not much of an alternative.

You're right. We'll fix it.

Also, if you made a deal with Cado, you get another way to convince him.

 

[CarnivalBizarre]

Nice to know I put 50+ in persuasion, streetwise and trading for a reason as a merchant. That's good to know.
But the merchant playthrough went by really fast. No combat and no reason to get gear and trade and such means the game just flies by. Which is not all good or bad really.

 

[flushfire]

'grats on the release. played a crossbow guy for a bit. just have a couple questions:
1. is there an easier way to reload the xbow other than right clicking it then choosing reload? shouldn't the default action change to reload once it's out of ammo?
2. do enemies get free attacks once you try moving away from them regardless of their remaining ap? it seems this way and its a bit imbalanced in favor of melee.
and a couple of observations:
everytime i get into the escort merchant quest at the beginning as a drifter, i get auto-equipped, even if i've equipped something else prior to the 2 thug ambush.
crossbows are empty upon equip. more realistic that way i guess? it makes crossbows a little tedious to use tho. that and using up more than 5ap just to get a single regular shot off at first equip is a bit too underpowered.

 

[HanoverF]

The only way out of it:

1). around 40 points in sneaking
2). persuading Mercato to join the lord - it requires crazy skill scores though. After some testing it turned out that of the following: [Persuasion], [Streetwise] and [Trade] at least two must be over 50, and the third one must be 50.

Originally I tried to get the lord to finish them off, passed the skill check, then had a dialog without any skill check and it said (failed) and forced me to go make peace.

 

[Humanity has risen!]

Now every time I start the demo, the screen flickers to white and there is a "cannot initialize Direct3D" error, which uninstalling and then re-installing doesn't fix.

 

[Grunker]

I'm getting tired of repeating it, but combat is hard because many of you aren't paying attention and just expecting to win.

For example, the Dex comment. What the fuck does it have to do with dodging attacks? I can consistently beat the assassin or the merc with an average 7 in all physical stats character.

"The most damage I can do is 2" - with what weapon? If you can't beat it with a dagger, try it with a sword or hammer or crossbow. You sure as fuck can do a lot more than 2 points of damage.

As for teaching, easy fights don't teach you anything.

What you're saying is "lol you're so fucking stupid you can't guess how the game works when we in no way show you how." I made the same comment about Frayed Knights; there is no fucking reason not to provide the player with a Player's Handbook with detailed descriptions about how combat works. What does every options do exactly, which stats influences what rolls and what are the rules?

Gimme that, and we're off to a good start.

Also, fucking this:

Bro maybe you ought to pay closer attention. You're basically telling people they need to pay attention becuase they don't know the 'right' way to do things. You designed the game, so of course you know how to win the fucking fights easily. The codex didn't and don't. Ignoring feedback like this is textbook bad design. 'If you don't already know how to play you're fucked!'

And then we're not talking about the other major complaint which is that once you "crack the combat code" with a specific character you don't do much else than utilize the same tactic over and over ad libitum, which is not that interesting. Some encounters present small variations because you have to deviate, but combat options are very, very limited. There's just not that much stuff to... do.

But I suppose I should listen to people who played it for a few hours and felt that they are entitled to bitch and moan.

Do whatever the fuck you want. I listed my initial impressions, and they were labeled as such (which has been the case for most of the posters in this thread). What the fuck did you expect to get from a demo if not people's initial impressions? You are telling what you know to be fans and avid players of old-school, turn-based (hard) RPGs, unforgiving shit like Wizardry, that they must be looking for a cake-walk. This is fundamentally stupid, especially considering that we are not complaining about difficulty but rather that the simplicity of the system makes the difficulty rely too much on factors we cannot control or severely limit our options in combat. Combine this with a lack of party members which would expand the tactical aspect and there's just not that much interesting compared to other games with better combat.

I didn't want to have the discussion in this way because frankly I like your game, I like the idea of it, and I will probably end up defending it despite what flaws it may have because at its core its a fuckton better than most of the shit I've played in a long time. It's also quite unique and as I said some of the stuff - including text-adventure style teleporting huzzahness I genuinely find refreshing and brilliant. But if you're going to tell me while I do that that I'm just looking for hand-holding and that my criticism isn't valid because I didn't figure out a game that provides me with no information on the topics we're discussing then why the fuck do you ask for feedback at all?

 

[Brayko]

I've now breezed through the entire demo with a purely diplomatic char from most if not all angles but can barely seem to win a single battle as a pure fighter. Either something's rotten in Denmark or this game was purely designed to use your wits and to trample the standard RPG combat cliche from Bethesda and Bioware with a more persuasive design approach.

I'm not really complaining, but it does seem kind of unbalanced.

 

[DarkUnderlord]

There are things AOD does really well, but it feels like someone stripped all of the "real gameplay" and replaced it with text adventure minigames. While offering skill use and replayability, those minigames are just too disconnected from the game world and often get you killed by choosing the wrong option, with little to no feedback or remedy. Prime example, sneaking into the Palace with an assassin. I won't spoil it, but while offering lots of possibilities, it's just not that engaging picking "[sneak]Try to sneak by the guard, while his back is turned" or "[critical strike]Kill him while he isn't looking" and actually performing the actions in the game world.

Well, that's the thing. Usually, performing the actions in the gameworld is the shittiest minigame of all.

Say, you want to sneak. You click on the sneak button, turn 'shadowy', and try to go past guards. If your sneaking is high enough, you simply watch your character walking until he reaches his destination. It's not really sneaking.

In a poorly designed game, yes that would be the case.

In a well-designed game, you would actually be making choices as you sneak because the developer will add in appropriate challenges to make it interesting.

EG: That guard is on patrol, I should wait here for a while until he turns, then goes back through the door, then I'll be able to walk across this area. Now as I walk through this area, I can see that I've got a quick and easy path right across the room but it goes through a well lit area where I'll be seen. If I stay to the shadows and walk around this side, then up, across and back down, I'll obviously have a better chance... Or bugger it, maybe I'll just try and leg it with my awesome sneak skills. Oh wait, there's a secret passage here that my leet skills have just lit up for me... WIth the upshot that if your skills are poor, you may at least get the chance to choose who to attack first, or where and how far away you are when combat starts. Or even run away if you get spotted and just leg it.

You've technically just added a "win" button: "[Use Skills] Attempt to win game."

 

[Crooked Bee]

You are telling what you know to be fans and avid players of old-school, turn-based (hard) RPGs, unforgiving shit like Wizardry

To be fair, Wizardry's combat is much more unforgiving and luck-based than AoD's. MUCH more. And the "makes the difficulty rely too much on factors we cannot control" but applies to Wizardry even more. (I'm saying that as a huge fan of those games. At least if you're talking about the first Wizardries.) You will die a whole lot on the first floor of the dungeon in Wizardry, the enemies can kill you in one hit, there's a lot of them, ven the equipment you can buy in the shop won't save you from that, and most importantly you *can't reload*, death is permanent. AoD is much more "doable" than that. The learning curve is very steep, true, but once you've mastered it at least decently, there's a good chance you won't die in combat; in Wizardry, you *will* die, over and over again, no matter your skill or equipment.

Just wanted to comment on that.

I do agree that a good thick manual/handbook would be cool, though. I love things like that.

 

[Commissar Draco]

The fight against Aurelian Legionares guarding loremaster would be great if number of your henchies was based on your charisma and/or House reputation.So you could realy play Augustus type who used men to kill for him and was smug enough to look as good guy after it.

Same with Merchant... option to join caravan and hire body guards should be essential... Running around with fat purse, toga and puny dagger in Theron should make you insta killed... Or worse if playing as woman. Game is asking for party game or companions anyway. Still liked it lot and will buy it.... as one of 10 people who liked it despite all flaws.

 

[Aldebaran]

Okay, first two possible bugs.

I stumbled upon the tower with a bunch of homeless people eating giant rats. Fully expecting terrible things to happen to me, as they always seem to whenever you pick a dialogue option to go somewhere, I bravely ventured into the lower level. Some homeless person followed me down and, surprisingly, didn't want to kill me. I was offered the chance to purchase rats or examine the room, and so I decided to have a look around. Due to my perception of 4, I found nothing. However, after that, I was not offered any of the previous dialogue options and I was forced to leave. I can no longer enter the cellar even though it still lights my cursor up.

The second strange thing occurred after I stabbed the local commercium leader in the chest roughly eight times. He had thrown me out of the building after I failed to convince Mercato to go along with the plan, and I didn't quite like that. Neither of his guards did anything to me as a result of this or even acknowledge my actions. What is more, I talked to another commercium member in a room to the left, and he seemed to think that everything was fine. I even got a free increase in my persuasion skill during the conversation.

Also, Out of curiosity, does the ring that Feng sells to you actually do anything? Or did he just take one hundred imperials from me after rewarding me with fifty?

I am really enjoying this demo. Dodge based combat seems to be a lot more effective than block based, though. I have no problem clearing anything other than the two camps as a dodge based dagger user. As a block user, you are essentially screwed if your shield splits and if you want a shield that can resist this you take a large hit to weapon skill.

 

[circ]

I let Feng get exiled cause he tried to rip me off as a diff character M:
After completing the merchant quest line I was sent to endofdemoistan and immediately jumped by three guys who I spotted but the only option was to try to sneak by or charge in like braveheart, no buying them off with trade, or disguising, or bluffing with streetwise. And trying to sneak by resulted in being teleported right in the middle of all three guys. Oh and I got skillpoints after completing the quest but I wasn't given a chance to spend them before being sent off to the random non-random encounter.

Haha - same happened to me. The only way out of it:

1). around 40 points in sneaking
2). persuading Mercato to join the lord - it requires crazy skill scores though. After some testing it turned out that of the following: [Persuasion], [Streetwise] and [Trade] at least two must be over 50, and the third one must be 50.

I did a merchant run, absolutely no combat. Was pretty dull as I just reloaded when a skill wasn't high enough to pass a check. Anyway, I couldn't convince the guards to join in the end. Passed first pers/street check I think, then failed. I had 50 streetwise/persuasion/trading. Tried pumping one to 55 as that's all I had left, nope. That was with 10 charisma too. Kept getting ambushed on the way. So just said fuck it, and made sneak 30 or 35. Wasn't that high. Bypassed ambush. YOU ARE MASTER OF TRADURS. I liked the writing I must confess, of assfucking others to do your bidding and I imagine it would give you a lot of manip opportunities later down the line. But didn't really care for doing nothing but clicking 1,2 or 3. Needs some diversification. Anyway, strangely I ended up with more gold in the end with my kill almost everything assassin than with a manipulating merchant.

 

[Elhoim]

We are testing the new dialogue screens with bigger fonts, check them out here:

http://www.irontowerstudio.com/forum/index.php/topic,2527.0.html

 

[DarkUnderlord]

We are testing the new dialogue screens with bigger fonts, check them out here:

http://www.irontowerstudio.com/forum/index.php/topic,2527.0.html

Whatever shitty unreadable font that is you're using.... Stop using it.