Game News Age of Decadence Demo Released

[DarkUnderlord]

You didn't earlier. I mean you've just contradicted yourself in this post where you called it a fallacy and that we're "blowing the problem way, waaaaaaaaaay out of proportion by black-and-white lining it up as a matter of "well, either there's nothing wrong with the game, or otherwise the whole thing needs to be re-designed.".

Full stop. I can say there is a problem with game design without saying the game needs to be redesigned from the ground up to be good.

You keep saying that but then you turn around and say things like "Marsal said most of what I'd say". Here, again, is what Marsal said when he said "most of what you wanted to say":

I agree that the problem lies in the design of the game itself. It's too unfocused and it's unfocused by design. Which is both good and bad. It offers freedom in character creation, but that freedom doesn't really mean much left unguided. "Spend SP immediately" is just a band-aid fix to a deeper problem.

[...]

In AoD you have a bazillion skills that are not clearly defined and overlap in their use and usefulness. The quests can be resolved in any number of different ways, with little room for improvisation or player agency. It's essentially a case of tyranny of choices and having no ability to influence their effects after they have been made, without save scumming.

[...]

Now make a thief? You'll want a weapon skill, a defensive skill, sneak, steal, lockpick, traps, streetwise, maybe critical strike, maybe disguise, maybe alchemy. That's about 7+ skills. To make matters worse, you can't improvise with the sneak skill, either you pass the check or you die. [...] The main problem are binary skill checks. That can't be easily fixed, as it is considered not broken by many and would essentially require scrapping the whole game and starting over.

I can understand VD being too close to the game to see the problems. I just don't understand what feedback the testers have been giving him and the team? If save scumming is an accepted and expected way to play the game, the game becomes disjointed and loses any kind of flow. The quests are clever and the accent on skill use is refreshing, but pass the check or die is not a good game mechanic. The combat is clearly too static and random to be enjoyable in the long run. The 3D world is unused and a gimmick that could be replaced (and improved) with a bunch of 2D concept art. Surely this was evident way, way before now.

Again, that is apparently "most of what you wanted to say". Now either you didn't actually understand what Marsal said or you're contradicting yourself all over the place. Marsal is using phrases like "scrapping the whole game and starting over". Now you either agree with that (which you keep saying), or you don't (which you also keep saying).

If you don't agree with that, stop saying you do.

If I didn't ackknowledge there was a problem, why would I try to introduce a fix?

I don't know. You keep saying weird contradictory things like "IT's a fallacy that something is inherently wrong with design just because it encourages a type of behaviour 'we don't like.'"... only to then turn around and agree that something is wrong with the game's design precisely because it's creating a behaviour "we don't like". But then you go one further and say things like "I can say there is a problem with game design without saying the game needs to be redesigned" while agreeing with someone who suggested that the only real way to solve this problem is to "re-design the game".

I honestly don't think you have any idea what you're actually saying or what you're actually agreeing with.

If all you want to do is tell me what I think, then there is no point is there? It's quite evident that we disagree on the proportions here, and there is no need to invent my words. If you think otherwise, please point to exactly where I contradict myself?:

No, my point is: You seem to have no idea what you're thinking. ... or let me re-phrase: What you're saying is contradictory. Even within your own posts. "I agree with the guy who said the game totally needs to be re-designed but I don't think the game totally needs to be re-designed" is in essence, what you appear to be saying. If that's not what you intend, please stop saying it.

1. I support Marsal's solution (so obviously I recognize a problem)
2. I claim that the problem is not big enough that the game is completely broken

How on fucking earth is this contradicting, exactly?

Again, re-read what Marsal said, why he said it and why he thinks it.

Not my solution - Marsal's solution which I support.

Again, Marsal's "band-aid fix to a deeper problem" of "binary skill checks" which "can't be easily fixed".

The band-aid won't work. And in fact it will make the problem more pronounced. I've already explained why here and here.

And I disagree very strongly with your stance here. I have finished a fine replay of the demo without hoarding skill points, and not because I got lucky, but because I accepted failed checks when they arose. I accepted the unperfect playthrough. What I'm saying right now is that to do this right now you'd have to accept some amount of LARPing - because right now the game can be efficiently played by saving up skill points and reloading when you need a major boost to a skill. This problem would be mitigated by forcing you to spend skill points right away.

... and once again, you're back to saying "there is no problem". Re-read what you just said. "I have finished a fine replay of the demo without hoarding skill points". So why the fuck are you so upset at a handful of people who choose to hoard skill points? Clearly, it's not a problem as you can finish the game "just fine" without it, right? So why do we need to fix it?

It's quite logical that this wouldn't encourage the same amount of save-scumming, as you would have to reload far further back (because if you needed 15 skill points for something you would have to go through enough quests to provide you with such because you have to spend skill points on level up).

Summa summarum I don't think you're right that game is unplayable or inherently broken if you do not save up skill points.

Again, you've just said in this very god-damned post that "there is a problem with game design", you re-iterated that you agree with Marsal who talked about deeper problems and binary skill checks being major flaws and yet right here you turn around and say "I don't think you're right that game is unplayable or inherently broken if you do not save up skill points".

... while you're suggesting that the game needs to force you to spend skill points to stop people saving them up. If people can get through the game without saving them up - yet some people choose to - and you accept that trying to stop people gaming the system by saving / re-loading is impossible, why do you keep proposing silly suggestions that make what you see as a non-problem worse?

You are assuming we agree on the nature and extend of the problem. We do not.

I honestly think you have no idea what you're saying.

According to what you're saying, people are saving up skill points when they don't need to, and this is a problem that needs to be fixed. That of course raises two very interesting issues:
1. If people don't need to hoard skill points, then why are people doing it?
2. And if they don't need hoard skill points, then why would we bother preventing them from doing it?

The first has already been answered by Marsal. There is a deep problem inherent in the game's design that the only way to fix will involve a lot of re-design. But you keep saying you agree with that... while then proceeding to disagree with it. Which makes no fucking sense at all.

Given that answer though, the second is a major issue. If we stop them from doing it, then it means the real problem is pushed front and centre. And there's nothing that pisses people off more than taking a known problem with the game's design and forcing people to endure it.

If you accept that there is a problem with the game's design, and that hoarding skill points is how some people are choosing to get around that problem, then why would you deny those people their solution?

 

[Grimlorn]

When I think abut it, dodging is really shitty way to defend yourself in combat compared to parring.

Actually in hand to hand combat dodging is better than blocking for the most part because it frees up your hands/arms to make countering a bit easier. You can also cut angles while dodging. There's a bunch of stuff you can do really.

 

[felipepepe]

When I think abut it, dodging is really shitty way to defend yourself in combat compared to parring.

Actually in hand to hand combat dodging is better than blocking for the most part because it frees up your hands/arms to make countering a bit easier. You can also cut angles while dodging. There's a bunch of stuff you can do really.

Yes, but on a armed fight like those in AoD dogding is quite a hard thing to do compared to blocking with a shield, unless somehow parrying could be considered as dogding...

 

[Grimlorn]

When I think abut it, dodging is really shitty way to defend yourself in combat compared to parring.

Actually in hand to hand combat dodging is better than blocking for the most part because it frees up your hands/arms to make countering a bit easier. You can also cut angles while dodging. There's a bunch of stuff you can do really.

Yes, but on a armed fight like those in AoD dogding is quite a hard thing to do compared to blocking with a shield, unless somehow parrying could be considered as dogding...

Yes dodging in hand to hand is harder than blocking too. Especially if you're going for a dodge that sets up a counter because you can't just back up out of range because then you're out of range. I have no experience in fencing/sword fighting but I'm sure it's quite similar. If you can dodge without having to use your sword to stop theirs that frees your sword up to counter immediately as long as you're in range. I'm sure the crap we see in movies isn't very reflective of what a real sword fight is like where people just swing their swords at each other out of range of hitting someone.

Additionally, a possibility to improve dodge in AOD would be to increase the rate at which you counter when using dodge and it would be pretty realistic imo. Of course that might require revamping the whole combat system so it might not be realistic.

 

[BLOBERT]

BROS I WANT THIS TO BE GOOD SO BAD

I JUST PLAYED THE DEMO TODAY FOR A WHILE AND HAVE SOME COMMENTS

COMBAT ISNT THAT BAD I BEAT THE FIRST ASSASSIN BRO WHEN I FORGOT TO SPEND MY SKILL POINTS LOLLOLOL BUT IT TOOK ME A FEW TIMES TO GET MY TACTICS RIGHT

I MURDERED LOTS OF PEOPLE AND I GET LOTS OF CUTSCENES WITH SOME ASSHOLE APPROACHING ME I CANT GO ANYWHERE IN TOWN BRO IM COOL WITH THAT EXCEPT THAT HE ISNT JUST AN ASSHOLE HE IS A TELEPORTING ASSHOLE

BRO I THINK THE CHOOSE YOUR OWN ADVENTURE SHIT IS UNBALANCED COMPARED TO ACTUAL FREEDOM AND INTERVENTIONS SEEM HEAVY HANDED AND REMOVE ILLUSION OF PLAYER AGENCY

JUST ME THOUGH BRO AND I AM JUST STARTING

I DO GIVE YOU RESPECT FOR MAKING IT HARD TO BE A BAD ASS KILLING MACHINE UBER DIPLOMAT

 

[RK47]

I guess this game is really about picking your battles.
I went with Assassin Critical Strike / Persuasion with slightly higher Charisma.
I finished the first assassination with Critical Strike dialogue
I let the bodyguard go, persuading him to split the loot.
So far so good.
I went to Feng.
Persuaded the target to leave town and never come back.
High perception noticed that he didn't mean what he said. Critical strike him on the back succeeded in killing him. Poor bastard.

I went to the noble compound and accepted the negotiation quest, knowing that my Persuasion would get me through (I've been upping it constantly to 50)
Turns out, yes. I succeeded in getting the nobles to pay up the 1,000 price. No blood were shed. Yet that proves I'm really, really shitty at combat.
Gained audience and was told to proceed to an inaccessible town. So I guess, I'm done.

I went to the gates - helped out a group of refugees. I can't seem to Persuade the guards to let them in for free. But alright, since I'm a nice guy (a nice assassin. Ha!) I paid up.
Guy went grateful and 'come to my shop when you have the time!' like Apu in Simpsons.

Bored, I went over to visit him and he trusted me enough (Word of Honor check: success) to spill the beans on his stash of cash at his home town. I checked the world map and saw none. Guess not within the demo?

I'm starting to run out of content here...and I decide to just return to Assassin Guild (I hate combat.)
Turns out I need to kill two spies in a house.
Funny thing is, I tried casing the place. Hoping the windows would be interactable. Maybe I could get a glimpse before walking in blind. No luck.
I circled the house a few times nothing. Kinda disappointed. I walked inside. Oh, a sick old man, and his daughter. Glad this is not a trap. I toss them 10 coins out of pity and walked off.
Assassin guild master said I was dumb. No, really, man it was just as planned. I don't think I can take on these two at once.
Boss called me a retard, but at least I'm a living retard instead of a dead smart man.
Is it possible for INT / PER to detect the disguises?

Never mind that, I move on ahead to the finale and got promptly killed in the combat. I just don't feel reloading just to beat that, I guess in the full game, I can just ignore challenges I can't face, no? I guess expecting a character to beat everyone and everything in AoD is too much to ask, and I accept that. Knowing my limit, I knew to step away, when given the chance.

I hope VD considers this. Don't push people into situation where people don't know what they're facing and get killed. Only to reload and avoid it completely. That's just poor presentation. It still boggles the mind why I would walk into a camp of bandits to negotiate. I should be give the option to watch them from a distance before deciding to attack / negotiate or a combination of both. Additional skill checks should be made available to the player to 'gauge risk'

I also support the Adventurer Store gear to start up with a fixed amount of coin to spend outfitting your character. I really, really hate not having the weapon I specialize in equipped on my hands at the start of every combat backgrounds.

It's got potential, but at its current state, most average gamers would stay away from it. It just felt so unrewarding.

 

[Elhoim]

We are adding an option to buy some stuff and save your game in the vignettes that have combat in them, and we are also working on some changes to the skill checks that will allow much more flexibility in skill point allocation.

 

[circ]

Ok RK, where do you meet the refugees again? I've gone to all the possible market squares, and there's no such guy there.

 

[circ]

I'm starting to run out of content here...and I decide to just return to Assassin Guild (I hate combat.)
Turns out I need to kill two spies in a house.
Funny thing is, I tried casing the place. Hoping the windows would be interactable. Maybe I could get a glimpse before walking in blind. No luck.
I circled the house a few times nothing. Kinda disappointed. I walked inside. Oh, a sick old man, and his daughter. Glad this is not a trap. I toss them 10 coins out of pity and walked off.
Assassin guild master said I was dumb. No, really, man it was just as planned. I don't think I can take on these two at once.
Boss called me a retard, but at least I'm a living retard instead of a dead smart man.
Is it possible for INT / PER to detect the disguises?

Never mind that, I move on ahead to the finale and got promptly killed in the combat. I just don't feel reloading just to beat that, I guess in the full game, I can just ignore challenges I can't face, no? I guess expecting a character to beat everyone and everything in AoD is too much to ask, and I accept that. Knowing my limit, I knew to step away, when given the chance.

Wow. You really are a moran. As a non combat spec you fight 3 guys, although third is optional. With your high crit it's doable. But I guess your dodge is crap? I don't think detecting the disguise helped any, in fact, being too helpful just gets you backstabbed and combat still follows.

Anyway, you don't have to fight in final assassin thing at all. Just kill your buddy in text mode. Don't think there was any check there. Ok I can't remember shit. I think that's how it went then you get teleported to noble compound and he says thanks, ASSASSIN REP DOWN.

 

[Regdar]

I'm currently stuck at a point where my active quests are: mines, bandit camp and tower attack (imperial guards). The problem is that I can't talk my way into or through these locations, but neither can I take them on in combat, no matter how much I try it's not even close. Currently using a 10/10/6/7/4/4 dodge/hammer type char. 50 hammers, 50 dodge (crafted light barbari armor), 45-ish crit. Helped refugee smith, escorted Cassius, saved girl from merc. Am I missing some SP or am I genuinely stuck and need to restart the game?

I tried killing civilians for SP but got the recurring cutscene with the guard captain. After about 15 kills I got booted from the town and shown the credits sales pitch.

 

[circ]

Well you're stuck anyway. I'm going to chance and say IG is completely impossible without heavy armor. Tower maybe doable with 50+ dodge, but that's in no way enough for the next sequence.

Anyway, the civilians you need to kill are: no one at the marketplace, that's insta guards.
4 squatters near the healer, in a house. Those guys will attack you later anyway if you solve the crafting check, but taking them down early you face no one. Although it still says - kill them or something. Uh ok.
Almost everyone at the bum camp outside of town. Leave the 4-5 at the back, one of those is get the fuck out of town. Kebab guy is fine. Do his 'quest' first though for 2 sp.
3 nobles at palace. 2 audience members listening to the guy. Not to two directly in front of him, that triggers dialogue everytime you approach them.
Ignore the two civilians in front of the inn, guards. But kill the merchant. Mercenary might be ok, except his dodge is so ridiculously high you will die without 60 in a weapon. Probably high chance of death anyway.
Kill everyone tagged townsperson around town. Citizens were ok too I think?
Don't kill a single beggar. Bums are ok to kill inside town. No slaves walking around either. In fact, don't kill any NPC with mobile script.
It's ok to kill the non IG guards, aka noble guards. But guards will show up and ask for 200 gold tribute. If you can't pay you're toast, probably.

Also, you should have no problems with bandit camp combat route, as I just did it with a 50 dodge assassin wearing manica armor. And you're wielding a much better weapon for it I think. And your weapon should probably be 50. Might take a reload maybe dunno.

 

[RK47]

What he said.

This is an excellent strategy guide for RPG.

 

[Commissar Draco]

Hmm Something for less bloodthirsty Chars? Some Kittens to take from trees and old grandpas to take throu streets? .... Just kidding. Just put some trainers and shop for Noble House members... same the IG has, My praetor needs his pimp helmet Damn it!

 

[VentilatorOfDoom]

What he said.

This is an excellent strategy guide for RPG.

None of that is necessary. Must be really hard to comprehend for some people that you have to either put your points into non-combat skills and solve objectives in non-combat ways, or put your points in combat skills and solve objectives by killing people.

 

[Commissar Draco]

None of that is necessary. Must be really hard to comprehend for some people that you have to either put your points into non-combat skills and solve objectives in non-combat ways, or put your points in combat skills and solve objectives by killing people.

Agree when you don't put Char like Praetor who is Leader and Fighter in this order. I guess he won't be as tough to take down 4 professional soldiers the way merc can be but should use his CHA or House Standing to bring more meatshelds house militia into encounter to even the odds. Also Noble who was not schooled too fight from the childhood?

 

[RK47]

No guys, that is a totally valid strategy. Think about it, it's like my assassin is following that NPC advice in the Assassin's guild.

"How do I train my skill?" Sheptimus asked.
"By killing people. Every person killed, is a lesson learned," the master remarked grimly.

I pondered upon his words of wisdom, as Circ's words brought it to clarity: I must slay everyone I can. I will eat their strength and drink their agilty, cutting their flesh piece by piece. Power through Peace is an illusion in the Age of Decadence.

 

[circ]

What he said.

This is an excellent strategy guide for RPG.

None of that is necessary. Must be really hard to comprehend for some people that you have to either put your points into non-combat skills and solve objectives in non-combat ways, or put your points in combat skills and solve objectives by killing people.

I'm going to kindly ask you to finish IG quest, which is all combat, without extra SP available from random mobs. Ok, not all combat, you can do a persuade check with Ant towards the end, but you're still going to have to do tower which has no diplo checks. For final confrontation you'll likely want 60 crafting which adds ap to armor, 60 weapon skill because Derlin or whatever has ridiculous armor, 50+ crit for extra damage and 50+ defense. That's alot of sp, and the 15-20 extra from cityfolk helps.

I'm going to try an axe merc as axes have innate dr penetration and can cleave shields sometimes, although it's not mentioned in desc like 2h maces.

 

[VentilatorOfDoom]

What he said.

This is an excellent strategy guide for RPG.

None of that is necessary. Must be really hard to comprehend for some people that you have to either put your points into non-combat skills and solve objectives in non-combat ways, or put your points in combat skills and solve objectives by killing people.

I'm going to kindly ask you to finish IG quest, which is all combat, without extra SP available from random mobs.

I already did that with 40 in swords, >=65 block, 50CS. Without killing civilians. Sure my to hit chance was only like 5% against most of Antidas' goons, a bit more against the spear dudes, but I just helped my own team by throwing some nets and handoxes. The others did all the kills. It's easy actually because the AI doesn't come after the PC like crazy, so you can just back off and help your own team to win by entangling the enemies. (I had 6 super-badass dudes on my side, you need to use the INT option in IG2 to get them, otherwise you have wussies)

The same character killed Flavius. Do you want a step-by-step walkthrough? I CS'ed my way to him, then 1 step back->inventory->equip net->throw->wait for next round->inventory->Gladius->Aimed head: Knock down! One free round of attacking with him being on the ground->repeat everything starting with another net. Worked.

 

[Grunker]

@Dark Underlord:

"Spend SP immediately" is just a band-aid fix to a deeper problem.

Eh, yes? Again, I don't understand what's so oxymoronic about recognizing a problem but saying it wouldn't take a redesign to make the game good? I really state the above in the other post, so I get what you're trying to say but it doesn't make any sense. Let me spell it out for you once more:

YES. I think there is a problem. NO I don't think it is game-breaking.

If you don't agree with that, stop saying you do.

Ahem:

Again, that is apparently "most of what you wanted to say".

I didn't say "I agree completely with everything Marsal said." Maybe in future I should avoid saying I generally agree with someone in case you convince yourself you're arguing with him instead of me?


Marsal points at a problem and I completely agree that it is a problem. What they should have done instead of make save-or-die checks was make save-or-something-bad-happens checks. But to the game's defense, the parts I've played through so far have had both. The first is bad-bad-bad, because it is the core part of what is problematic. But it doesn't make the game unplayable; in many parts you can simply avoid the quest you have problems with, and not finish it, or you can accept less-than-optimal results.

I honestly don't think you have any idea what you're actually saying or what you're actually agreeing with.

I honestly think that at this point you're more interested in inventing contradictions in my semantics than you are in actually discussing the point. You let me know when that changes, and I'll get back to you.

Again, Marsal's "band-aid fix to a deeper problem" of "binary skill checks" which "can't be easily fixed".

Yes. I don't demand a perfect fix to create the perfect game. A band-aid is better than nothing.

The band-aid won't work. And in fact it will make the problem more pronounced. I've already explained why here and here.

And I explained to you why you were wrong just a few posts below - since then you've refused to discuss the matter at hand. So it's your turn to answer my points I believe.

... and once again, you're back to saying "there is no problem".

Are you mentally incapable of understanding the difference between "no problem" and "less of a problem"?

why do you keep proposing silly suggestions that make what you see as a non-problem worse?

I think I've explained this one maybe 20 times now. It doesn't sink in, fine, we have nothing further to discuss.

I honestly think you have no idea what you're saying.

According to what you're saying, people are saving up skill points when they don't need to, and this is a problem that needs to be fixed. That of course raises two very interesting issues:
1. If people don't need to hoard skill points, then why are people doing it?
2. And if they don't need hoard skill points, then why would we bother preventing them from doing it?

The first has already been answered by Marsal. There is a deep problem inherent in the game's design that the only way to fix will involve a lot of re-design. But you keep saying you agree with that... while then proceeding to disagree with it. Which makes no fucking sense at all.

Given that answer though, the second is a major issue. If we stop them from doing it, then it means the real problem is pushed front and centre. And there's nothing that pisses people off more than taking a known problem with the game's design and forcing people to endure it.

If you accept that there is a problem with the game's design, and that hoarding skill points is how some people are choosing to get around that problem, then why would you deny those people their solution?

If you have just an ounce of willingness to actually listen, do so now:

The problem, in my mind, is as follows: The game is structured around giving players an unperfect playthrough - at least, that's what will happen to most who play it blindly. This entails not doing certain quests etc. The problem here is that save-scumming breaks this. It encourages you not to use your skill-points in order to circumvent the game's mechanics so that you can blast skill-points into important skills when it becomes necessary. This is a big problem with game design, because a) player's shouldn't be incentivised to do something they don't really feel like doing (saving up skill points) - it's like the "stockpile ammunition" problem of shooters (nobody wants to, most do it), b) It's a major design flaw in my mind because it's completely random - if not all checks have the same sort of relevancy/balance, then how do you account for that in chargen? and lastly c) The parts that are basically "save-or-die" are obviously broken as fuck.

Now, the solutions are as follows: You can redesign the whole game, but is not an option here, and the game is fun and playable even without a fix, so what CAN we do. Well, we can solve problem a) by introducing Marsal's "spend-skill-points immeadiately"-fix. This will have the byproduct of partly fixing problem b), because players will now HAVE to accept unperfect playthroughs (which is arguably what the game intends to anyway, given the C&C-angle) or reload a million years back in time.

C) we obviously can't fix, but insofar as it's a part of b) (accept unperfect playthroughs) it doesn't matter - people will have to avoid those quests.

Notice how I didn't talk in absolutes? I mean, your claim is that the game is completely unplayable, yet plenty people play it and find it fun. That doesn't counter your argument of course, but it would sure be nice if you could discuss it from a more practical stand-point where a flaw in design didn't mean the end of the game. Unless of course you are firm in the belief that you won't have any interest in the final product under any circumstances.

 

[circ]

What he said.

This is an excellent strategy guide for RPG.

None of that is necessary. Must be really hard to comprehend for some people that you have to either put your points into non-combat skills and solve objectives in non-combat ways, or put your points in combat skills and solve objectives by killing people.

I'm going to kindly ask you to finish IG quest, which is all combat, without extra SP available from random mobs.

I already did that with 40 in swords, >=65 block, 50CS. Without killing civilians. Sure my to hit chance was only like 5% against most of Antidas' goons, a bit more against the spear dudes, but I just helped my own team by throwing some nets and handoxes. The others did all the kills. It's easy actually because the AI doesn't come after the PC like crazy, so you can just back off and help your own team to win by entangling the enemies. (I had 6 super-badass dudes on my side, you need to use the INT option in IG2 to get them, otherwise you have wussies)

The same character killed Flavius. Do you want a step-by-step walkthrough? I CS'ed my way to him, then 1 step back->inventory->equip net->throw->wait for next round->inventory->Gladius->Aimed head: Knock down! One free round of attacking with him being on the ground->repeat everything starting with another net. Worked.

Oh balls. Big saggy hairy balls. INT option? What's the int req? Feel free to post char stats.

Also, what's the key to take scrots in AoD? I tried printscreen and it just takes a shot of desktop.

Axe guy, well, is nothing special. That 1 extra dr to axes doesn't really do jack shit. And I've split exactly one shield out of about 20 possible cleaves.

 

[Grunker]

What he said.

This is an excellent strategy guide for RPG.

None of that is necessary. Must be really hard to comprehend for some people that you have to either put your points into non-combat skills and solve objectives in non-combat ways, or put your points in combat skills and solve objectives by killing people.

What I'd like - REALLY, REALLY like - is an option to do both but not in an optimal way. Like, there's the militades encounter. Say I'm playing a little talky, a little fighty. I can take on the first encounter, but the second means death (meaning here I can do talky-fighty, and not have optimal results from both). This can be implemented without it being Bioware-style killing-machine diplomat.

 

[VentilatorOfDoom]

Oh balls. Big saggy hairy balls. INT option? What's the int req? Feel free to post char stats.

I had STR7, DEX8, CON 6, PER8, INT 7, CHA4 iirc. I think INT 7 is required in IG2 to propose a better way to conquer the tower. The commander is impressed and sends his best men with you instead of bronze-equiped wussies. And kill they did.
I understand I would have needed another whopping 20 SP (if not more) in sword, considering the hideously small THC I had against Antidas troops.

 

[villain of the story]

So have they fixed dialogue screen yet?

 

[circ]

Ok. NOW MAKING ANOTHER. Hmm. Spear is pretty nice because of the chance for pushing people back, but I haven't much tested hammer knockdown, other than a 2h hammer guy with dodge that was crap.

 

[VentilatorOfDoom]

What he said.

This is an excellent strategy guide for RPG.

None of that is necessary. Must be really hard to comprehend for some people that you have to either put your points into non-combat skills and solve objectives in non-combat ways, or put your points in combat skills and solve objectives by killing people.

What I'd like - REALLY, REALLY like - is an option to do both but not in an optimal way. Like, there's the militades encounter. Say I'm playing a little talky, a little fighty. I can take on the first encounter, but the second means death (meaning here I can do talky-fighty, and not have optimal results from both). This can be implemented without it being Bioware-style killing-machine diplomat.

Dunno what your problem is. There are several ways to deal with the second group in a non-violent manner. What else do you want?

"I can do talky-fighty" - what's that supposed to mean anyway? Do you want to waffle about until they slit their own throats or what?
If you can handle the first group but not the second... have you ever thought about using the doorway to the small side-chamber to fight them one after the other?