Game News Age of Decadence September Update

[Volrath]

The camera can't be fixed. Well, maybe it can be, if we focus on it exclusively for the next 6 months, but it's a luxury we don't have, and overall, the camera is very low on the priority list.

You should, because as it is right now it's a trainwreck. I haven't had this much trouble with a camera since fucking NWN2.

 

[EG]

The camera can't be fixed. Well, maybe it can be, if we focus on it exclusively for the next 6 months, but it's a luxury we don't have, and overall, the camera is very low on the priority list.

You should, because as it is right now it's a fucking trainwreck. I haven't had this much trouble with a camera since fucking NWN2.

Maybe you fellows should have grown up with N64s instead of computers . . . Not one of them had good camera controls.

 

[felipepepe]

What makes these games fun is the very real freedom they allow you within their complex system and their complex, open world.

True, but here we are talking about the illusion of going "off the beaten path", "carving your way"; you are presented with a dozen of choices, yet you choose another one, "your own choice!". RAPTURE!

It's as I placed you on a room with two doors, and you instead dig a hole on the floor to get out. Obviously, I knew you had a shovel and prepared for that, but the simple fact that I didn't gave you the shovel like a retard or said "the floor is weak here" makes you think you're besting me and "breaking" the game.

Perhaps it's not a illusion of choice nor freedom, but of breakthrough.

 

[Clockwork Knight]

Saying, "The designers of IWD intended you to have freedom!" is not a convincing response to the complaint that AoD is ruined by overinterference by its designer. That AoD is literally a series of dialogue options consciously written by a designer is a patently different sort of "designer intention" than the intentional freedom of games like IWD, FNV, the Elder Scrolls games. Those games allow you to make your own story, to play them as games. AoD is like some kind of sentence-completion activity where all the sentence parts are provided for you on the refrigerator.

So what you're saying is that AoD is a JRPG?

 

[Johannes]

I think a relatively simple way to really improve the game would be to give you more skill points on char creation (and possibly add a limit on how many points you can put to a single skill at chargen), but tone down the SP rewards you get later. Some effects it'd have:
Less whining about the first combat encounters if it's more easily possible to make a PC capable of handling them (but you're more stuck with a combat-centric PC in that case)
More freedom in the order you want to tackle quests
Less possibility to save up skillpoints and savescum for their optimal use, you're more stuck with the character you initially made
More viable to make a diverse character right from the get-go, instead of having to postpone picking secondary skills
You don't as badly need to make choices based on what will grant you best SP rewards, it's not a realistic motivation the PC should have

And then you could implement some items that increase your skill, to overcome specific hurdles and diversify strategic planning from just skillpoint allocation and combat gear. One-use-only lockpicks of high quality or such. Also gives some more possible moneysinks for non-combat PCs.


Overall anything that will make savescumming and metagaming for optimal skillpoint allocation less useful, will make the game better.



Oh and will picking a mix of dodge and block be at all viable in the new block system?

 

[Gozma]

Whenever there is a chance to do something like a skill check, just put up the cost in character points it would take to bump the skill to the level you need to succeed.

Like:
[Merchant - 10] Gimme that watermelon bikini, I give one 1 drachma-thaler and not a pfennig more

And if you pick it the points are auto-allocated. THIS IS THE ONLY WAY YOU SHOULD BE ABLE TO ALLOCATE SKILL POINTS (besides combat or I guess stuff like crafting... I just mean skill check skills like "Science" in Fallout, that kinda shit)

And show graphically when you are overshooting, like if you are 50 points over show it

It is a bit silly and mechanical but so are rote stat checks. If you can't afford what it would take to bump the stat, don't show the option at all - this will prevent people that have no points in [Sense Sexuality] from knowing that they could have pointed out that the final boss only has issues because he is a repressed furry

 

[Jaesun]

Jasede is the final boss in AoD?

 

[CappenVarra]

Heh, I guess some people expected something more like the radscorpion cave entrance - it was obviously scripted and put there to be found, but the player still had to examine the entrance and think of using the explosive he conveniently found in Vault 15. The illusion of freedom, where the game gives you options and then half-heartedly tries to play coy and "hide" those choices, a feminine spirit that waits for the vigorous male player to make the move she suggested and filters out those who lack the initiative and perception, if you will. Make up, small talk, the meaning of life.

While AoD is your dungeon master saying "you walk into a room, there's Item1, Item2, Item3, and you can Go back the way you came - what do you do?". Which offends those sensitive souls who revolt at the vulgarity of seeing the wires keeping Superman aloft. And it's not like AoD doesn't have such "discoverable" choices (vines on Feng's house etc.), they're just used less - how do you suggest the possibility of intimidating an NPC without making it an explicit option? I'm sure the Righteously Indignant Non-Troll has all the answers (even those not provided by islam).

As for the change talked about, dare I think about dividing all Skill point values by 10? That's the only thing that crosses my mind except minor changes like making throwing weapons craftable in batches etc.

 

[Infinitron]

Whenever there is a chance to do something like a skill check, just put up the cost in character points it would take to bump the skill to the level you need to succeed.

Like:
[Merchant - 10] Gimme that watermelon bikini, I give one 1 drachma-thaler and not a pfennig more

And if you pick it the points are auto-allocated. THIS IS THE ONLY WAY YOU SHOULD BE ABLE TO ALLOCATE SKILL POINTS (besides combat or I guess stuff like crafting... I just mean skill check skills like "Science" in Fallout, that kinda shit)

And show graphically when you are overshooting, like if you are 50 points over show it

It is a bit silly and mechanical but so are rote stat checks. If you can't afford what it would take to bump the stat, don't show the option at all - this will prevent people that have no points in [Sense Sexuality] from knowing that they could have pointed out that the final boss only has issues because he is a repressed furry

Skill Point Manager 2013

 

[l3loodAngel]

(you used the crafting system, for god's sake - how did you think it got there?)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1bsOKH3_DNo

 

[Drowed]

While AoD is your dungeon master saying "you walk into a room, there's Item1, Item2, Item3, and you can Go back the way you came - what do you do?". Which offends those sensitive souls who revolt at the vulgarity of seeing the wires keeping Superman aloft.

Not only that. The feeling I have is that the concept of "freedom" being used here is exactly the absurd concept of freedom used in current games. AKA, the freedom to be "touring the world" when it makes no sense. "So you accepted the quest to close the gates of Oblivion, where an invasion of demons is imminent, which will destroy all known races if you do not prevent it? No problem, of course you can go walk on the beach and kill 30 Mudcrabs . Oh, and visit that island across the continent as well. See ya later."

Basically, what seems to be offensive in AOD is the fact that it does not allow you to stroll through cities *during* a quest (although you can do so at any time before and after it) to make any random things you want to (that does not have any effects on said quest). Well, excuse me if I do not understand what's so offensive about it. My only problem is that such teleportation happens in a very abrupt way, you do not have the feeling that your character actually went to the other place. (And I guess that's why the word "teleportation" ended up being used by everyone.) But it seems that even this will go through some adjustments, so... Nothing more to complain about.

 

[VentilatorOfDoom]

Happy Birthday VD and mad props for having the balls to leave a job you despise.

On topic:

Teleportation: You know what other game had teleportation during quests? Kotor 2. It only did it on Telos, but there it occures frequently. Win the twi'lek bitch in a pazaak game and zing! get teleported back to the appartment of the twilek dumbnut who gave you the quest. Talk to the droid and voila! back you are with the ithorians. It happens all the time. I wonder why you gentlemen never complained about the teleporting in Kotor 2. I mean, it's terrible right? You're outright deprived of walking the station once again, staring at two loading screens inbetween. Just think of all the lost immersion. Seriously, if there was one thing wrong with the teleportation in Kotor 2 it's that they didn't use it enough and on other planets you had to run over the map time and again with no shortcut.

So what's the fucking problem? Teleportation confuses you? Like, you're talking to NPC A and agree to speak to NPC B and suddenly you are at B's and read an introductionary paragraph like "You're entering the thieve's guild..." or some such and now you're confused? As in... you sit at your desk, staring at the screen, frowning in the desperate attempt to understand what's going on? Then I have a suggestion for you: get a fucking brian.

Of course, AoD is kinda too small to warrant teleporting during quests, you already have quick travel, so what you're actually saving in time is just the last 20 meters to the NPC in question.

Camera: It saddens me to hear that it's low on the priority list because the camera sucked donkey balls. It seems the ancient tech of blending out upper layers (NWN) , which resulted in a more or less usable camera, has been forgotten. Designing your areas with the iso camera in mind from the get go, well, that's too late now so it won't happen either.

 

[laclongquan]

Whenever there is a chance to do something like a skill check, just put up the cost in character points it would take to bump the skill to the level you need to succeed.

Like:
[Merchant - 10] Gimme that watermelon bikini, I give one 1 drachma-thaler and not a pfennig more

And if you pick it the points are auto-allocated. THIS IS THE ONLY WAY YOU SHOULD BE ABLE TO ALLOCATE SKILL POINTS (besides combat or I guess stuff like crafting... I just mean skill check skills like "Science" in Fallout, that kinda shit)

And show graphically when you are overshooting, like if you are 50 points over show it

It is a bit silly and mechanical but so are rote stat checks. If you can't afford what it would take to bump the stat, don't show the option at all - this will prevent people that have no points in [Sense Sexuality] from knowing that they could have pointed out that the final boss only has issues because he is a repressed furry

Skill Point Manager 2013

You spoke as if it's a bad thing.

 

[suejak]

Overall anything that will make savescumming and metagaming for optimal skillpoint allocation less useful, will make the game better.

I don't want to speak for my man Vault Dweller, but I'm pretty sure that's his ideal style of gameplay.

While AoD is your dungeon master saying "you walk into a room, there's Item1, Item2, Item3, and you can Go back the way you came - what do you do?". Which offends those sensitive souls who revolt at the vulgarity of seeing the wires keeping Superman aloft.

Not only that. The feeling I have is that the concept of "freedom" being used here is exactly the absurd concept of freedom used in current games. AKA, the freedom to be "touring the world" when it makes no sense. "So you accepted the quest to close the gates of Oblivion, where an invasion of demons is imminent, which will destroy all known races if you do not prevent it? No problem, of course you can go walk on the beach and kill 30 Mudcrabs . Oh, and visit that island across the continent as well. See ya later."

Basically, what seems to be offensive in AOD is the fact that it does not allow you to stroll through cities *during* a quest (although you can do so at any time before and after it) to make any random things you want to (that does not have any effects on said quest). Well, excuse me if I do not understand what's so offensive about it. My only problem is that such teleportation happens in a very abrupt way, you do not have the feeling that your character actually went to the other place. (And I guess that's why the word "teleportation" ended up being used by everyone.) But it seems that even this will go through some adjustments, so... Nothing more to complain about.

That is not even close to accurate.

However, even if you strain to create a sense of urgency, you can punish player tardiness without automating the process with a fade-in/fade-out ellipsis that does everything for him.

I don't get those of you (seems to be just VD and one or two others) who are confusing designer intentionality with the AoD style of literally handing every single choice to the player. My craftiing-system solution to the problem in Arcanum was not an obvious one -- it was an organic solution, brought about and discovered accidentally by me, the player, in playing the game. Now people like VD seem to think that it is just as much fun to give a dialogue choice that says, "*Use your crafting skills to solve this puzzle (mysterious skill check).*" This is because they're dumb.

It's not even the "illusion" of freedom. What the fuck? It's a well-designed CRPG, full of complex systems in which the player has many choices and many creative liberties. The game is designed to allow the player to do as much as they may like, which anyone who has considered such problems knows to be possible only if you don't try to foresee every single thing in advance. It creates systems and then, through tweaking, allows the systems to organically help solve problems. Did Tim Cain sit back and say, "Well, the player might be able to create Balanced Swords to get through these magma monsters!"? Exactly NOT the point. The point is that this is a single organically occurring solution among dozens that arise simply because the game is full of complex systems left open and freely explorable to the player.

 

[Vault Dweller]

My craftiing-system solution to the problem in Arcanum was not an obvious one -- it was an organic solution, brought about and discovered accidentally by me, the player, in playing the game.

 

[VentilatorOfDoom]

I have to say inventing my own story as I go and coming up with creative solutions using the environment in - for the developer - unforeseen ways is very dear to me in my cRPGs. Like when I did that in AoD:

Now on to the one fight that's really difficult. The Aurelian Outpost. No talk (wouldn't have had the skills anyway) just kill.
You're facing 3 soldiers, 1 crossbow dude and the captain. I tried it several times with little luck.
I had some skillpoints to spare before, in the end I've put a few more points into daggers and all the rest into Block (62).
One time I was so close. SO CLOSE. I had 35(!) HP left after killing the other 4 dudes with only the captain remaining. I even had him down to severely wounded. He pawned me anyway. Now lets check our options. Reloading. The good thing about killing and looting so many people is: you've got some coin to spare. (in my case ~2500) So I went and purchased 8 throwing nets. Then I sold all the bronze pilums I've had and acquired 20 iron pilums. I decomposed all that stuff, also an iron gladius I still had, and then crafted 10 iron pilums and 10 iron handox (masterwork +1-3 dmg, hardened edge vs DR+2) . I intended to entangle the captain, then throw shit at him. As it turned out, I didn't even need the nets. The captain stood there, shooting his crossbow, I stood there throwing handoxes at him. Guess who survived to tell the tale? (cue: handoxes are fucking ... awesome)
I've looted the fuckers (massive steel Praetor armor) went back to town for healing and to craft steel Phrygian armor) and came back.
Meanwhile they've barricaded the compound. Well, after eradicating the actual dudes, fighting the rest is but a minor obstacle.

Even now, thinking back and remembering like I totally crafted those handoxes to win a formerly impossible fight, brings a manly tear of joy to my eye. And it rolls down my cheek.

 

[suejak]

I have to say inventing my own story as I go and coming up with creative solutions using the environment in - for the developer - unforeseen ways is very dear to me in my cRPGs. Like when I did that in AoD:

Now on to the one fight that's really difficult. The Aurelian Outpost. No talk (wouldn't have had the skills anyway) just kill.
You're facing 3 soldiers, 1 crossbow dude and the captain. I tried it several times with little luck.
I had some skillpoints to spare before, in the end I've put a few more points into daggers and all the rest into Block (62).
One time I was so close. SO CLOSE. I had 35(!) HP left after killing the other 4 dudes with only the captain remaining. I even had him down to severely wounded. He pawned me anyway. Now lets check our options. Reloading. The good thing about killing and looting so many people is: you've got some coin to spare. (in my case ~2500) So I went and purchased 8 throwing nets. Then I sold all the bronze pilums I've had and acquired 20 iron pilums. I decomposed all that stuff, also an iron gladius I still had, and then crafted 10 iron pilums and 10 iron handox (masterwork +1-3 dmg, hardened edge vs DR+2) . I intended to entangle the captain, then throw shit at him. As it turned out, I didn't even need the nets. The captain stood there, shooting his crossbow, I stood there throwing handoxes at him. Guess who survived to tell the tale? (cue: handoxes are fucking ... awesome)
I've looted the fuckers (massive steel Praetor armor) went back to town for healing and to craft steel Phrygian armor) and came back.
Meanwhile they've barricaded the compound. Well, after eradicating the actual dudes, fighting the rest is but a minor obstacle.

Even now, thinking back and remembering like I totally crafted those handoxes to win a formerly impossible fight, brings a manly tear of joy to my eye. And it rolls down my cheek.

And that's awesome and encouraging, even if the fights are basically Final Fantasy Tactics encounters.

 

[EG]

Dangit, the game shouldn't need teleporting! If we decide to stroll around town instead of shutting the gates, let the demon hordes raze the city!

Oh, one day games will be so advanced as that.

It's not that it is mind-boggling: it's that it's weird. Just about every game I played made you walk -- to suddenly start teleporting is madness!

(Only remember seven instances of teleporting in KotOR, by the way . . . perhaps my memory requires a replay.)

 

[St. Toxic]

Did you actually throw the axes or were they simply teleported to the captain?

 

[suejak]

I honestly don't get why the fights take place at all when you can just do the same thing with dialogue skill checks.

 

[St. Toxic]

Some people actually want to play the game, not just tp around while reading disjointed hack novels.

 

[suejak]

No, that part is just filler. The real interesting stuff is all in the dialogue options!

 

[Vault Dweller]

Some people actually want to play the game, not just tp around while reading disjointed hack novels.

Fortunately, they are under no obligation to play it. Crisis averted.

 

[Drowed]

The "sad" thing is that, yeah, it is exactly that. Or do you really think the interesting part is to end the conversation, then click on the door. Click on another door. Click the ground to the edge of the map. Wait for loading. Click on the floor until you reach the other door. Enter the house. Clicking into the room. Clicking the character. Continue dialogue.

So interesting and deep.

 

[suejak]

The "sad" thing is that, yeah, it is exactly that. Or do you really think the interesting part is to end the conversation, then click on the door. Click on another door. Click the ground to the edge of the map. Wait for loading. Click on the floor until you reach the other door. Enter the house. Clicking into the room. Clicking the character. Continue dialogue.

So interesting and deep.

Is this your first CRPG?