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TBS Age of Wonders 1 & 2

Discussion in 'Strategy and Simulation' started by BING XI LAO, Apr 6, 2020.

  1. BING XI LAO Age of Wonders fanboy Patron

    BING XI LAO
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    The most important steps are enabling 2-step verification in your gmail acc and then inputting an app-specific password into the wrapper.
     
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  2. BING XI LAO Age of Wonders fanboy Patron

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    • Informative Informative x 2
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  3. BING XI LAO Age of Wonders fanboy Patron

    BING XI LAO
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    BTW Lagi IniochReborn and I have compiled a list of hex editing offsets, so you can now edit your game to reduce vision ranges, like you wanted. I guess you are playing other games right now but I can provide details via PM
     
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  4. Lagi Savant

    Lagi
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    Thanks Bing, that's nice. Cant promise I would use the edit though, right now I'm on detox from computer gaming, and even if I don't grown up, on my horizons is already emperor of fading sun.
     
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  5. BING XI LAO Age of Wonders fanboy Patron

    BING XI LAO
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    Making a new mod now that we know how to edit some things in the engine, such as the atk/dam of abilities like Archery.
    modding changelog in spreadsheet form (open)
    Screenshot_64.png

    Still working on my next map. Trying to make it extremely detailed. I may keep working on it for another 6 months before release; many areas have been gone over several times by now and each time they look better.
    map screenshots (open)
    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]
     
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  6. Lagi Savant

    Lagi
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    where is rest of that excel table?

    you use red color for boost and blue for nerf?
     
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  7. BING XI LAO Age of Wonders fanboy Patron

    BING XI LAO
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  8. Lagi Savant

    Lagi
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    Monster Slaying instead Dragon Slaying is great stuff. Why Dragon dont has Monster ability (flag)?
    Raze defenders logic check is great!
    Medal boost looks like good change. would be easier to keep veterans alive.
    shipyard would provide gold like in AoW+?

    i hope for some more radical unit changes

    in guild there could be ballon, to give access for air transport.

    shipyard high tier ships are "not attractive" (high tier take long to produce also). There could be underwater unit (water concealment - sea serpent f.ex). some ship could have strike, to be different to the rest.

    goblin dont need battering ram, if bomber can crush walls. Goblin could use some assassin, for thematic reason.

    for Dark Elf i would remove Shadow (incarnate is already a ghost), and put there some big beast.

    ... ok i maybe refrain from putting my own agenda, it suppose to be next "default" mod, just with Dark Elfs shooting magic bolts :D
     
    Last edited: Nov 21, 2020
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  9. BING XI LAO Age of Wonders fanboy Patron

    BING XI LAO
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    They do have it, it's just not listed as an added ability as they already have Dragon, which got renamed to Monster.

    Yep, I just copied it over from AoW+ though

    Nope. I would rather have the shipyard only be useful for making ships, that way I can have it cost very little gold to make new shipyards.

    I do like the new 'Chanter' unit (rework of the Highman Saint) which has Healing and Leadership and Charm, but no Strike or Holy Bolts. Also shifted from tier 2 to 1. And the Highman Puppet rework.

    True, but I'd want to think of some way to differentiate it from the Dwarven Balloon. Or the dwarves could get the Silver Dragon graphic and call it a Gargoyle.

    Their stats are very powerful though. With Dragon Ships only having archery, and with the higher tier ships have much more DEF and HP if you use a higher tier ship while someone else uses the lower ones, you should be able to demolish them at sea after a while.

    Good point, I need to address this. Maybe I need to give Goblins a trainable wolf to replace the ram or something. Or just remove wall crushing from the bomber. Actually since archery/hurl stones/poison darts are nerfed, the bomber is effectively a lot stronger even without wall crushing..

    True, I like the Incarnate and the Shadow. Shadow only has Physical Protection so it's like a precursor to the more powerful spirit, the Incarnate which can possess people.
    And besides... the magic bolts are only available on Dark Elf and Elf units when they get Gold Medal!
     
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  10. Lagi Savant

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    Building new shipyards is useless. Having more capture points to fight for is fun.
    the vanilla navy warfare is dull. its just building more pricey ships. You cannot even play with numbers, because of the transport cheese.

    Goblin should have equivalent of orcs Kobolds. Giving them wolf, would be a big tier1 headstart over other races (except halfling ponies), because of more movement on map.

    anyway Im waiting for what you cook.
     
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  11. BING XI LAO Age of Wonders fanboy Patron

    BING XI LAO
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    True, I think I need to make the ships cheaper to make shipyards worth building. If Builders, 'Build Shipyard' action, and the ships themselves are all cheap, but still slow to build as in TS136 - then there would be a choice on how worthwhile it is to make more shipyards.

    As for vanilla warfare being dull, true again.
    I was about to say "I don't want to give a ship Strike because none of them have a ram in their graphic" but then I noticed the Galley actually does have a pretty massive spike at the front lol.
    Time to finally implement the trainable water-concealment Sea Serpent, the Galley with Strike, and the Galleon with Flame Throwing. (plus the existing ranged attacks)

    True, wolf time it is. With Concealment and Vision the wolf will have a niche.
     
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  12. octavius Prestigious Gentleman Arcane

    octavius
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    I'm toying with some ideas for my own SP mod, based on AoW+.

    Any tips on a unit that could replace the Dark Elves' Incarnate and still be thematically appropriate? Playing SP I really dislike this unit, since Possess is too open to abuse and the AI can't deal with it effectively.
     
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  13. BING XI LAO Age of Wonders fanboy Patron

    BING XI LAO
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    Your best bet is giving them Lagi's Hydra. Here's his mod: https://www.mediafire.com/file/ohqy2vzn1im24og/lag_mod.rar/file
    It has some other graphical improvements especially to the Firstborn and Salamander.

    As for un-nerfing archery etc, like you mentioned in the AoW+ thread:
    http://www.heaventools.com/
    PE explorer to look at the AoWEpack.dpl file (.dll for aow+)
    https://mh-nexus.de/en/hxd/
    hex editor for actually changing values
    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...6aAbf4jvio2Xr5lS5qhc0dnJs/edit#gid=1430838464
    My list of notes for hex editing, if you crtl-f archery you'll see a helpful screenshot of the Poison Darts section in PE Explorer and which numbers are the ATK, rate of fire, DAM, and range. Same formant for many other ranged attacks.
    You can also join the discord to see some modding discussion. I could make you an AoW+ submod if you just want a couple edits to a few ranged attacks, those edits are fairly easy to make, and I have everything installed and ready to go - tell me what changes you want.
     
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  14. vota DC Liturgist

    vota DC
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    But kamikaze unit Is fun, It Is just garbage in vanilla because very bad stats for their suicide skill. In aow2 the suicide bomber was better.
     
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  15. Lagi Savant

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    we were discussing removing of Battering Ram from Goblins (not Bomber).


    Octavius my mod is trash, if you looking for inspiration from stats, i only wanted to play with new graphics.
    And dont forget to ask Bing to reduce vision range of structures for you.
     
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  16. BING XI LAO Age of Wonders fanboy Patron

    BING XI LAO
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    This is an AoW1 mod I've been working on for months, to combine ruleset changes with the new modding tools we have thanks to And G and IniochReborn, who both showed me how to modify AoWEpack.dpl using PE Explorer and HxD. Thanks! - also thanks to Lagi for some improved unit graphics.

    Download and Changelog links:
    http://aow.heavengames.com/downloads/showfile.php?fileid=1231
    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/11VB9Llq4fYBER-YU4jT9ovPlkKCuzDP-rLTm7kt0Ayc/edit#gid=0

    tiny sample of the changes:
    Screenshot_57.png
    To install, simply copy-paste the contents of this folder into your Age of Wonders directory. You might want to copy-paste your entire age of wonders directory first as a backup.

    The main changes are:
    • Spellcasting levelup cost from 20 to 12
    • DEF levelup cost from 5 to 10
    • Archery, Hurl Stones, and Poison Darts had their ATK reduced by 1
    • Unit upkeep by unit tier is now 2/4/6/8, not 4/6/8/10.
    • Most units have had stats and ability changes.
    • Race relations have a lot more wary and Neutral, and a lot less Polite and Hostile relationships. Dark Elves and Humans hate each other, as the lore demands they ought!
    • Each race has their own ability which they gain at gold medal, and which their heroes all have by default. Orcs have Round Attack, for example.
    • All spells have been made cheaper and easier to research, but some have also had their ATK/DAM values changed.
    • Most abilities are available at levelup, but heroes start with -4 fewer movement points for most races.
    • Smaller cities cost a lot less to upgrade - it's now 80 gold for 2-hexers, and 160 for 3-hexers
    • Vision has been reduced by 1 point for units, and altered for some buildings too. Concealed units won't be detected if they stand next to buildings, only if next to units, and they can hide in any forest, even sparse trees and giant toadstools.
    • Altars cost less mana to fire, and recharge more swiftly.
    • Silver Medal and Gold Medal each grant +1ATK/+1RES/+2HP, instead of +1ATK/+1DEF/+1HP followed by +1DAM/+1RES/+1HP
    • Morale no longer affects DEF, but it has a more varied RES malus - from -3 RES at terrible morale, to +1 RES at perfect morale.
    • Leadership now grants +1 ATK and +1 DEF, and some units like Warlords, the FirstBorn, and the Yaka Avatar have Leadership. All leaders have leadership by default.
    • Raze defenders are now the defender, not the attacker, in the simulated battle which decides if the razer is strong enough to raze a structure. This means a Great Eagle can't simply raze a building because the defenders had no ranged weapons. Thanks for showing me how you did this in AoW+, And G!
    I'm still working on full lore-tab expansions - I am very proud of the expanded descriptions I wrote for the neutral races so far.

    ANY OPINIONS AND BUG REPORTS ARE VERY WELCOME!
     
    Last edited: Dec 4, 2020
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  17. <3sRichardSimmons Arcane Patron

    <3sRichardSimmons
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    Sounds interesting. On the surface it looks like you’re pretty severely nerfing (especially martial) heroes and buffing troops. While I can appreciate the sentiment behind the design goal, I think a big part of the appeal of AoW1 is how ridiculously OP the heroes can get. Also seems like nerfing heroes might encourage turtling them, at least in early game.

    I love AoW1 and will try to give the mod a try sometime and provide feedback, but no idea when that will be. End-of-year work crunch + Christmastime approaching aren’t leaving much in the way of free time on my calendar.
     
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  18. BING XI LAO Age of Wonders fanboy Patron

    BING XI LAO
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    I love how strong the heroes can get, but I also wanted to tone down the ridiculous +2 DEF per level scaling they had before. Ideally they should now be able to reach high level through other routes than just rushing to 10 DEF.
    This could mean the powerful ranged attacks they can now pick at levelup (like Fire Musket, Doom Gaze, Black Breath etc), or it could mean getting First Strike, +ATK, and Lightning Strike / other special Strikes. Also, Spellcasting at the greatly reduced cost, and the much easier to use and a bit more powerful spells.
    But you do have a point, so in reaction to your comment I gave all heroes +1 ATK.
     
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  19. octavius Prestigious Gentleman Arcane

    octavius
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    I assume it's designed for MP?

    It's fun for a while, but for me at least the novelty wore off once I mastered the game. I'd rather play it as a strategy game than as a CRPG.

    Anyway, funny how much modding AoW1 is seeing these days.
    Does this mean it's more popular than 2/SM, or that it's inherently more flawed, and therefore needs more modding. I'm leaning towards the latter explanation myself.
     
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  20. The Brazilian Slaughter Arcane

    The Brazilian Slaughter
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    BING XI LAO

    Those seem to be some very interesting changes, I gotta get me some time to take a gander at them myself.

    Question:

    Won't this pretty much nerf archers, slingers and darters into uselessness?

    Always thought lvl1 units were too expensive, myself.

    it would be interesting to test something like 2/4/8/16, no? If I remember right, AOW2SM ran with 4/8/12/16.

    Considering the power of lvl3 and 4 units, I think it could have interesting effects.
     
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  21. BING XI LAO Age of Wonders fanboy Patron

    BING XI LAO
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    Yeah, this is because in unmodded PBEM games, everyone mostly just stacks archers. In autocombat archers broadly speaking get an extra round of attacks.
    It's possible that this is an overreaction and so I may halve this reduction to only -1. But I think I'll wait to playtest it in PBEM first. Besides, tier1 troops are now lower relative upkeep to other tiers, and archers were previously the strongest 1st-tier units alongside Elephants and Pony Riders. Also I reduced their gold cost compared to swordsmen, and even if they are weaker than swordsmen, they can still have a specialist role against hard-hitting monsters whose retaliations would instagib swordsmen, and against flyers.

    Actually because Archers are more versatile, that means swordsmen have to be at least a little stronger than them, otherwise there's no reason to make swordsmen, unless you are rolling with loads of units enchantments. Come to think of it the mod does make several enchantments cheaper.

    2/4/8/16 would be better, but I only figured out how to change it specifically to 2/4/6/8, by switching an 'inc' for a 'dec' in assembly code. I know basically nothing about any kind of programming.
    I just pinned some messages about this in the aow1 discord hex editing section, in case you want to take a look at it and explain how someone could implement a different upkeep formula. It's a foreign language to my eyes.
    Show Spoiler
    first image's left half, and second image, are from the AoW+ mod, while right half of first image is the base game's formula.
    Screenshot_59 (1).png Screenshot_60 (1).png


    AoW1 has more glaring balance issues despite being the better game in several aspects of gameplay, such as all spellcasting heroes being able to cast spells on the strategic map, instead of just the wizard.
    Also, it's previously had relatively little modding compared to AoW2, and as the slightly more prestigious game it attracts a greater share of autists. THis recent modding is really just three people - myself, IniochReborn, and And G.
    Besides which, aow2 actually does have a dual mod effort underway right now, with one team adding graphics and another guy who runs MP games adding balance changes ontop of MPE 2.0
    The_Grolling_Sky_2a.jpg
     
    Last edited: Dec 4, 2020
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  22. BING XI LAO Age of Wonders fanboy Patron

    BING XI LAO
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    Example of the newly broadened skill selection
    Screenshot_59.png
     
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  23. BING XI LAO Age of Wonders fanboy Patron

    BING XI LAO
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    Actually you were right about the Archery/Hurl Stones/Poison Darts ATK reduction by 2 being too much. Will make the reduction 1 instead.
     
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  24. Lagi Savant

    Lagi
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    :whiteknight:

    :x
    so you just making archers cheaper so you can spam more of them, but it would be balance cause they have -10% to hit ?

    I hate big armies because there is no move all button. I always use cheat engine to speed the game up.
    I hate archers (and ballistas) shooting everything, because I think medieval-ish game should be about melee combat.


    ps my opinion about cheap archers:
     
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  25. vota DC Liturgist

    vota DC
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    -2 means that hurl Stones only had 1 attack, now It Is 2 Attack?
    Can the hex change option put in an editor for noobs?
    Can Number of Attack be changed? It will be fun a crossbowman with only a single ranged Attack and a weaker strike ability that would allow to use melee only one time for retaliation instead of retaliate each Attack.
     
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