Age of Wonders 3

[Blaine]

Improvement of Shadow Magic, eh? High plaudits.

 

[Markman]

Underwhelming. As I posted earlier it will need its own Shadow Magic expansion to be a real fun game.
I'd say its more fun if you didnt play earlier titles.

 

[Metro]

Would you say it's better/worse than Warlock 2?

 

[Tigranes]

I've been reading the thread throughout for KKK and it doesn't really seem like the consensus is 'better than SM', just a good game which needs some work.

 

[Absinthe]

I wouldn't recommend Age of Wonders 3 over its predecessors in its current state. Right now the game is still unfinished. It needs more scenarios, the balance is weak, the plot is meh, and the soundtrack doesn't have the same charm even though it's the same composer (still decent, but that's damning by faint praise). Race variety has been quashed since it's class, not race, that matters the most. Race is just a set of modifiers for the most part (elves get +1 ranged attack, +1 resistance, forestry, and 20% blight weakness; orcs get +5 hitpoints, +1 melee attack, and -1 ranged attack and probably other stuff too; etc.). Also, the number of races has been reduced to more generic fare. The game upgrades and devolves into Tier 4 doomstacks far too easily and there are no Tier 4 racial or specialization units. So there is an overreliance on class units right now. At the same time, all units can now cross mountains and with a Seafaring upgrade researched all units can enter the water like Civ 5 does. Ground units can melee air units no problem. Overland map unit enchantments were nixed because too many betatesters cried about superbuffed Tier 1 doomstacks. So now the only doomstack is the Tier 4 doomstack. Homogenization seems to be the new balance. Explorer specialization only buffs irregular-type units making it a solid pick for Rogues and a crap pick for other classes (also Rogue is the weakest class right now). At the same time, with settlers making new cities, the most successful strategy is the old Infinite City Sprawl, which the AI does, ensuring that if you spend too much time building up, the AI will spam Tier 4 doomstacks every turn unless you ICS right back.

It's a bit of a mess right now. I'm wondering how much can be fixed by patches and mods. The game is playable, and the class system approach is interesting, but the current implementation needs help.

Also, if you don't get it from GOG.com, it's going to shove Steam down your throat. That means getting a boxed copy is a waste of money.

 

[Markman]

Would you say it's better/worse than Warlock 2?

I'd say they play differently for exact comparison. In AoW 3 the game is waiting for you to conquer the map while in Warlock 2 the game is pushing to erase you from the map.
The biggest "flaw" from my point of view is that it plays too much like the old ones just with less diversity and less content. Its not better than Shadow Magic.

OTOH, I found Warlock 2 quite fun to play, mainly cause the game hates me and wants to kill me from turn 1. While both are in the same genre, tempo and the style of play is different.
HoMM series are a better comparison to AoW than Warlock 2.

 

[Chef_Hathaway]

What I would really love to see in this game at some point in the future are units you can get access to through race-class combinations. It's pretty disappointing that currently whichever race you pick, your leader type will give you the same units every time. I think it would be pretty cool that if you were a goblin dreadnought, for example, you would get some kind of catapult that would launch explosive-strapped goblins at the enemy, or an infantry unit which throws gas grenades, while being a dwarf dreadnought would grant you some sort of drill tank.

Also I think that should some races should be restricted from picking certain leader types. I just can't imagine an elven or orc dreadnought, since the dreadnought is an anti-nature, technology and progress embracing leader, while elves love forests and orcs are stoopid and would rather hit their opponents with large sticks.

I really, really, really hope this is the direction they go with the expansions/DLC/whatever.

I don't know if I agree with the limitation of races, as you could easily work with those tropes that they are associated with. Elvish dreadnoughts could be focused on industrialized forestation, while Orcs could be more focused on simpler things like big guns or buzzsaws/chainsaws, I don't know.

 

[J_C]

The game is good on its on right, there is only two big flaws: the not functioning online multiplayer and the generic races. It is not better than its predecessors, but what is?

 

[cvv]

It is not better than its predecessors, but what is?

 

[J_C]

It is not better than its predecessors, but what is?

But seriously. :D I know this puts the bar low, but in this day and I am satisfied with this. At least AoW3 is similar to the predecessors and plays like them, even if it fails here and there.

 

[whatevername]

Race variety has been quashed since it's class, not race, that matters the most. Race is just a set of modifiers for the most part (elves get +1 ranged attack, +1 resistance, forestry, and 20% blight weakness; orcs get +5 hitpoints, +1 melee attack, and -1 ranged attack and probably other stuff too; etc.). Also, the number of races has been reduced to more generic fare.

I noticed that goblins can't be flanked while I was raping the braindead AI with zergs of fuckings WISPS, which was even better for me bacuse they stunned themselves to shit. Their race description says they are seldom taken by surprise.

 

[ricolikesrice]

i also think its better than shadow magic overall. like someone said a few pages back: 1 1/2 steps forward, 1 step back. you mileage might vary of course if you really digged some features i dont miss and the other way around.

the complaints about lack of variety are completely overblown hyperbole. yes there s only 6 races but those 6 races coupled with 6 classes already give you actually a lot of variety. then add on top of that independent settlements, spell spheres etc. etc. and you have tons of different units. sure plenty of them are somewhat similar but the same can be said about earlier AOWs and MoM.

and while racial diversity could certainly better its not as simple as some claim, i.e. its not just goblin melee unit having 5 hp less where orc has 1 strenght more - there s quite a few more differences between the racial units: different traits, different special abilities upon gaining ranks etc. etc. certain goblin units for example can upon gaining ranks lower their support costs allowing you to field absolutely huge cavalry armies. elf archers work differently than goblin swam darters, support units have different spells etc. etc. etc.
did the people complaing about this even play the different races or was a quick glance at the tome of wonders enough to form a kneejerk opinion about diversity and balance ?

personally i quite dig the class-race mixing concept and hope instead of getting boring races like halflings, furries and different flavours of elves they make the existing classes even more interesting while only adding 1-3 truly interesting races. more depth >>> dozens of shallow races. personally i dont miss a single "old" AOW race but d rather have some new stuff.
proper insectoids for example (shadow demons were somewhat insectoid but lame).

the "too quick to get to tier 4 spam" thing is being worked on and to be honest after playing the game a bit more i m not even sure anymore if it was really that bad. i dont like how quick you can get tier 3/4 units but i ve stopped "stacking them" and instead of rolling around with 1-3 doom stacks i m now fielding 10+ stacks (lategame of course) made of tier2-3 units with a rare hero/tier4 and having better success then before .... someone needs to tell the AI though :p

i havent played warlock 2 but reading its forums its painfully obvious people in the endgame use the same 1-4 units + the same lords as in warlock 1.
if you never played warlock 1 then i guess that wouldnt bother you but i expect a few new toys from a "sequel", especially considering warlock had tons of different units but lategame there was absolutely no point in using 95% of them. i inititally thought AOW3 suffered from the same (tier 4 spam) but it turns out it isnt as bad as i feared.

there s one thing warlock and FE:LH do better: exploration. clearing monster dens and gaining loot in AOW3 just aint fun - they are more like goodie huts in civ because against your mighty armies they simply dont stand a chance and finding a sword with +1 dmg or a helm with +1 defense is not that interesting ....

AI in AOW3 is imho slighty better than the competition in the genre ( it sometimes uses spells in pretty clever ways, it sometimes fields impressive offensives, it sometimes creates -for an AI- pretty well balanced armies .... ) but ultimativly dont expect too much as for every clever moments there s 10 dumb ones

... so yeah, playing warlock dremer invasion or warlock 2 exiled mode might be more "challenging" but lets not forget thats not because of clever AI but because you are basically swarmed with spawning uberunits - if you like that there probably will be scenarios made with the editor that do just that for AOW3.

overall its a worthy sequel and with some proper patching + expansion(s) well on the way to become a classic. but hey its the codex and it wouldnt be codex without some people nitpicking and hyperboling. if MoM were released today with slightly better AI, better UI, great graphics you d still find people bitching about how the races are too similar or complain about the (tons of) balance issues while comparing it to a game thats better in 1-2 things (but worse in 50+ other ways) or merely stating that its "soulless", "shallow" and "bland"

in short : Age of Wonders III is great, fuck the haters and give me my fanboy Tag.

 

[cvv]

I think it would be generally more useful for those who wanna know more about AoW3 to stop comparing it to Warlock. I know I've sinned too in this respect but I'm hereby repenting.

Despite some similarities they ultimately offer a very different experience. In spirit Warlock is much more similar to King's Bounty, in that it plays more like an RPG than a strategy game. It's much more a PvE focused game, all about exploration, questing and levelling your heroes.

On the other hand AoW3's competitors would be either FE or the new MoM incarnation Worlds of Magic. Compared to those AoW3 boasts a well developed arena combat mechanics, problem is if you don't take a fancy to it then there's very little the game can offer you. The empire building and city management is barebones, the map exploration, questing and the PvE elements is dull and your heroes are mediocre at best. Game looks very pretty and slick (except the big unit and character models) but it's still easily outlassed by 20 years old MoM in almost every respect.

 

[CarnivalBizarre]

... but it's still easily outlassed by 20 years old MoM in almost every respect.

The AI in MoM was non-existant. If you survived the first 20 turns you won, always. The same is not true in AoW, not any version.
I see some complaining about the writing in the campaign, I play the elven court one and there it is top notch, and the voice acting is the best I have seen in a strategy game. Not that those things are important in a strategy game...

Some Tier IV units howver seem to have no drawback at all. The hole shrine thingy just cuts through anything... anything at all, and takes tons of damage and fires long distance and can fly. Seems there is little use building anything else when one is the pope. Will be interesting to see what the updates will bring.

 

[Renegen]

If you survived the first 20 turns you won? I don't know what you're smoking but on hard or impossible the game was quite determined to kill you.

 

[adddeed]

Race variety has been quashed since it's class, not race, that matters the most. Race is just a set of modifiers for the most part (elves get +1 ranged attack, +1 resistance, forestry, and 20% blight weakness; orcs get +5 hitpoints, +1 melee attack, and -1 ranged attack and probably other stuff too; etc.). Also, the number of races has been reduced to more generic fare.

I noticed that goblins can't be flanked while I was raping the braindead AI with zergs of fuckings WISPS, which was even better for me bacuse they stunned themselves to shit. Their race description says they are seldom taken by surprise.

Goblin archers also dont get a ranged penalty.

 

[CarnivalBizarre]

If you survived the first 20 turns you won? I don't know what you're smoking but on hard or impossible the game was quite determined to kill you.

I think you were playing with you butt and not your head?

 

[sser]

Goblin swarm darters are shooting wasps/bees or something of that sort. That's why they can shoot over walls and don't get harsh range penalties. They're definitely one of the best Tier I units.

 

[Emily]

but they also do blight damage which many races and undead are immune against so it is a fair trade off.

 

[adddeed]

^ You sure? I thought golbin are the ones with blight protection.

 

[Emily]

All undead are immune to it, and some races have it as well.

 

[Absinthe]

High Elves have a racial 20% Blight Weakness though.

I checked what whatevername said, and I think he's right - Goblins might actually be immune to flanking. That would mean their racial modifiers really screw over Rogues since they not only have a 40% racial blight/poison resistance but they also get flank immunity which removes backstab.

 

[Raghar]

It's not like a physical violence wouldn't work.

 

[Disgruntled]

Is there a good game mode to play?

I tried going all in with a huge map, no limits random but im already bored within the 10 or so hours ive invested (not much for my strategy playthroughs). The problems mentioned already do kill a lot of incentive to keep going. Ive unlocked almost every troop and now it feels like I must go through the tedium of building and shifting units from various cities till I eventually conquer the world. It feels like so much busywork is going on and my domain is relatively tiny.

Been mentioned that small maps and limited cities provide a better challenge but I dont know the specific balance to create such a game without causing some other issues.

Bit underwhelmed with the AoW3 after some promise from the first couple of days. Patches might fix some things but it needs a truckload more unit and city building content imo.

 

[SmartCheetah]

The game is definitely not balanced for long, epic games. If things were tuned and balanced to huge maps, it would be awesome. Unfortunately, they ain't, so you end up with few stacks of highest tier units, slowly conquering the map. I hope they'll do something about it, as I like my games take a looooong time, just like you.