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[Sol Invictus]

Yeah. I'm not opposed to the eating of dogs if they're farm bred. Because those dogs, being bred in farms, don't have the same level of intellect as dogs which have become pets and have developed feelings for their human masters. There's no sense of betrayal that way.

It's the same with pigs and cows, which some people keep as pets. It's one thing to have the ones at the farm butchered, but it's a completely different situation when you take someone's pet pig (who are more intelligent than any dog) and kill it for food.

 

[foreman]

Peddle your spin elsewhere, please, to someone who you might have a chance of fooling. Of course, there is something to be observed in your generalization of tourists as well. It might be surprising that the tourists might develop such an attitude once they find out your level of distaste and apparent rudeness.

Oops.

Of course, there's also a kid in China right now who knows jack shit about her history (along with fellow students), which I'm suspect this might be a parallel occurance.

"they only pickpocket the whiny tourists". Holy fuck, kid, you expect me to believe that?

Aw, c'mon Rosh, we were starting to like you here! Oh, well. The contents of this thread are providing much valuable quotes for one of my classmates. She's deciding to make a thesis on the state of Racism in 21st century systems. In other words, keep the hate coming. All of your posts are helping a student graduate by the end of summer. :D Be proud, followers of Hitler and Pat Buchanan. :D

To everyone else who wants to talk about understanding and respecting other cultures,, please keep posting so we can see the comebacks of the jack-asses. Seriously, we want to know their answers. A potential honor student will greatly appreciate it.

Cheers! :D

 

[Rosh]

Beautiful way of not replying and wasting bandwidth.

Don't forget to tell them to add your line, "they only pickpocket the whiny tourists". That's the most comical wad of shit I've heard in a long time. As for the "Hitler and Pat Buchannen" remark, that pretty nonsensical. Maybe you might want to ask your parents or those who have been around a bit longer than you. Your metaphorical plugging of your ears would be as if people in the US were to dismiss that slavery ever occured, or if China tried to pretend foot binding and other things didn't happen. Some people do pretend they didn't happen, which is pretty sick in itself.

So you're pretending what I've said didn't happen. Excuse me as I go call my friend stationed in Naples to personally say fuck you, child in Tagalog on behalf of himself and his sister. Sad thing is, he's probably old enough to be your father.

I also find the KKK reply to be a bit pathetically amusing as well. Or did you just assume I was a WASP?

 

[foreman]

Aw c'mon Rosh, we LOVE you! We really do!

By the way, I did ask my parents. They thought YOU WERE Pat Bushanan (oh, excuse me, BUCHanan. My bad) until I showed them your nick. They said you were very smart - just like Hitler was.

Uhrm... did you mean "Fuck you" in Tagalog or "Child" in Tagalog? In any case, I'll ask someone to translate later. Naples is in Italy, right?

By the way, we're not pretending what you said didn't happen. All we're saying is it happened specifically to YOU and other sorry-whiny ass "tourists". :D Peace! All is forgiven! :D

And hey, don't blame me for the waste of bandwith. I think we all have the right to respond to bullshit like yours, right? Anyway, you started it....

 

[Saint_Proverbius]

By the way, we're not pretending what you said didn't happen. All we're saying is it happened specifically to YOU and other sorry-whiny ass "tourists". :D Peace! All is forgiven! :D

I hate to break this to you, but it's probably not smart for people in poorer countries to antagonize tourists. See, tourists bring in money to the country legitimately. Preying on them, mocking them, etc. makes them not want to go there any more and basically removes a lucritive industry from your GNP.

 

[Rosh]

By the way, I did ask my parents. They thought YOU WERE Pat Bushanan (oh, excuse me, BUCHanan. My bad) until I showed them your nick. They said you were very smart - just like Hitler was.

Amusing, given a later point.

Uhrm... did you mean "Fuck you" in Tagalog or "Child" in Tagalog? In any case, I'll ask someone to translate later. Naples is in Italy, right?

Not verbatim "fuck you" or "child", but I'm suire he'll come up with something suitable when I tell him of this. That is, if his ship wasn't locked down on communications at this time, has been for over 3 months.

Yes, Naples is in Italy. Congratulations on rudimentary knowledge of geography. Also, I would remind you, he's one of the fellows I know through boot camp and was from...aw, screw it, kid. You've read it before and you probably ignored it.

By the way, we're not pretending what you said didn't happen. All we're saying is it happened specifically to YOU and other sorry-whiny ass "tourists". :D Peace! All is forgiven! :D

Well, since it seems you're just here for the attention instead of anything on that subject, I can safely consider you "irrelevent". For one thing, you've really done nothing to disprove "tourist = victim", but in fact have reinforced that. Good job.

I hate to break this to you, but it's probably not smart for people in poorer countries to antagonize tourists. See, tourists bring in money to the country legitimately. Preying on them, mocking them, etc. makes them not want to go there any more and basically removes a lucritive industry from your GNP.

They need to get that attitude fixed. See, they can't rely on the military to be pickpocketed and be rude to while also relying on the prostitutes to give the cash injection, so to speak. Without that trick cash, they're going to have to rely on other things.

I can see that's going to happen no time soon. It's pretty sad when people I've known from there say just about the same thing. "Vacation somewhere else. It's not the food, it's not the climate, it's not disease or anything else. You are nothing more than a potential victim there." Considering I've been there a few times, one time for a bit of length, I can quite agree with that. Now that there's kids trying to play spin-doctor, it makes it even more sadly pathetic.

It's like saying slavery didn't happen because a dumb Arkansas hick didn't know about it, baby!

 

[Astromarine]

little correction here, to an old old post in this thread, just because I'm Portuguese and I can :p

Exitium: Vasco da Gama did not Circumnavigate, Fernao de Magalhaes (or "Magellan" to people who can't read other languages) did. He was killed in the Philippines, yes. Nice for you to know history.

Erm, problem was he was killed because he made a deal with the king of Cebu, whom he had "converted" to Catholicism, that he would help that king subjugate the other isles so Catholicism (and Portuguese-friendly policies) would dominate the whole archipelago. He invaded Mactan with too few men so that he could demonstrate the superiority of his powder weapons, but miscalculated when his artillery boats got stuck in coral reefs and could not provide support. He died in combat while invading a kingdom to further Portuguese interests. That REALLY shows how the Philippinos are real bastards, doesn't it? Erm, no, actually.

People, generalizations are a necessary form of communication, but generalizing negative traits from some people to an entire race is called racism. There is no other way to call this. Period. I don't know the Philippines, and know nothing of their situation except what I read in this thread. I believe what Ross says about how rampant pickpocketing is there, I believe prostitution is an industry there, and I agree it must be stopped. Still, the difference between me and you is that if I met a philippino somewhere, I would not hold where he came from against him. *If* you would, that makes you racist. So sorry, but semantics is inflexible.

Someone in this thread explicitly told one of the developers of this game that he would not buy it or install it for the simple reason that it was a philippine product. He considered it by default to be poor, bugridden, and unworthy of even a tryout SIMPLY because it was philippino. The developer, who is trying one of the things that you people here in this site long for, which is to develop an interesting, original RPG, is getting negative press because of the simple fact of where the dev house is based. This is racism, and I don't want to hear anyone TRYING to say otherwise. You may feel your racism is justified (racists always do) but that doesn't change what it is.

The Philippines are in a sorry state right now. The prostitution industry is rampant, as well as other types of crime. Sure, I believe that. Hey, what greater way to insure it fucking STAYS that way than to pan products because they come from there, right? *sigh*


There were three arguments here on why the Philippines suck (why we are even *having* this discussion is beyond me):

1) Their food is weird. So fucking what? In some parts of Italy they have a kind of cheese which comes with live maggots in it, and you eat it with them still squirming. FACT. Hey, let's bomb Italy, why not?.

2) They are poor. Oh Jesus Christ Almighty. If you can't see what's wrong with this, they we should just bomb the whole fucking world, get rid of the human race, and save any poor unsuspecting aliens the aggravation of meeting us.

3) Crime is rampant, including child prostitution. This is true, but it is a factor of 2). They need to be helped with their economy, education, and several other matters. Some cultural traditions (like the poor value of human life and decency) are a GOOD part of the Western cultural "package" that we need to teach everyone else, but we keep trying to teach that only in tandem with the rest of the package (like the "sell us your oil cheap" package, or the "do what I say" package, which blatantly suck). It certainly is NOT enough to demonize every single person in that country. Do you hate all Germans because of Nazis? All Italians because of the Mafia? Hell, let's all hate Exitium? after all, he's just a fucking Commie bastard who mangles women's feet, kills babies because of overpopulation, and generally treats people like dirt, shall we? After all, he's fucking Chinese, the filthy Commie red bastart.

Exitium, I hate you and I wish you would fucking die like all other fucking red Commie bastards. You Mao-loving punk.

There, don't we feel better already?

Astro

 

[Walks with the Snails]

People, generalizations are a necessary form of communication, but generalizing negative traits from some people to an entire race is called racism. There is no other way to call this.

Actually, there is. The touchy-feely one would probably be cultural imperialism or some similar bit of hyperbole made up by some dopey ex-hippie who now runs a sociology department at a university. I just get a little tired of hearing this crap argument over and over again. What's even funnier is that it often tends to come out of the mouths of people who jump at every opportunity to make fun of Americans because we're the scourge of the planet and our tourists are rude. At least be consistent. Attacking racism is just refighting the battle that was already decided 50 years ago, get over it. It's only slightly less silly than accusing someone of supporting slavery or opposing women's suffrage, at least for Westerners. A person is more than their genetic makeup, I think that's fairly clear by now. Cultures and attitudes can certainly be judged, though, and they can and do also change over time. Get over it. It's unfair to attack someone over something they can't change, but when they can change it and just don't bother, that's fair game.

Still, the difference between me and you is that if I met a philippino somewhere, I would not hold where he came from against him.

Way to put words in someone's mouth. Didn't he say he had Philipino friends?

The developer, who is trying one of the things that you people here in this site long for, which is to develop an interesting, original RPG, is getting negative press because of the simple fact of where the dev house is based. This is racism, and I don't want to hear anyone TRYING to say otherwise. You may feel your racism is justified (racists always do) but that doesn't change what it is.

Not really. I really don't care about the whole Philipino thing, but the game looked fairly uninteresting on its merits, which is what I think the criticism was based on and this whole mess just started with an off-the-cuff remark by Exitium.

The Philippines are in a sorry state right now. The prostitution industry is rampant, as well as other types of crime. Sure, I believe that.

So in other words you're a racist?

Some cultural traditions (like the poor value of human life and decency) are a GOOD part of the Western cultural "package" that we need to teach everyone else, but we keep trying to teach that only in tandem with the rest of the package (like the "sell us your oil cheap" package, or the "do what I say" package, which blatantly suck).

I'm confused, I thought making judgments about cultural values was racist and therefore bad.

 

[Sol Invictus]

That's just the problem with all of these politically correct sods who make general statements like "it's wrong to generalize people based on their culture/race/creed/religion/ethos". They'll say that, but it's apparently okay to hold America and "The West" to a different standard. It's okay, for example, to call Americans "baby killers, rapists and murderers" but not okay to call the Nigerian President, Mugabe a murderer, because it's 'racist' to label him that way, because "all black-skinned people have a bad stigma attached to them", despite the fact that he is a murderer.

It's okay for one country to attack another. But if nobody intervenes, America gets the blame for being 'apathetic'. If America decides to help some country out, it's labelled 'interefering' and 'colonialistic'. Why can't the world make up its mind?

 

[Saint_Proverbius]

It's okay for one country to attack another. But if nobody intervenes, America gets the blame for being 'apathetic'. If America decides to help some country out, it's labelled 'interefering' and 'colonialistic'. Why can't the world make up its mind?

Kind of like why we were rebuked in the world for not doing anything in Rwanda, but get rebuked for doing something in Iraq.

 

[Vault Dweller]

but we keep trying to teach that only in tandem with the rest of the package (like the "sell us your oil cheap" package, or the "do what I say" package, which blatantly suck)

Hmm, sounds like generalization to me. :wink:

EDIT:
Regarding this whole discussion, I present Vault Dweller's Overly Simplified Socio-Political Theory TM.

1. All people are fucked up regardless of their race, culture, etc.
2. Cultural differences make it impossible for different nations to understand one another, although each nation has something that freaks other nations out.
3. It's a waste of time to try to prove something to the other side of the cultural chasm as this here discussion clearly demonstrates.

 

[Rosh]

EDIT:
Regarding this whole discussion, I present Vault Dweller's Overly Simplified Socio-Political Theory TM.

1. All people are fucked up regardless of their race, culture, etc.
2. Cultural differences make it impossible for different nations to understand one another, although each nation has something that freaks other nations out.
3. It's a waste of time to try to prove something to the other side of the cultural chasm as this here discussion clearly demonstrates.

Spoken like someone who does have a clue about sociology and the world, and entirely correct.

I don't know...I guess there's a cultural difference where I just can't understand why a father would essentially rape his daughter repeatedly in order to "train" her into prostitution. At age 12.

Someone in this thread explicitly told one of the developers of this game that he would not buy it or install it for the simple reason that it was a philippine product. He considered it by default to be poor, bugridden, and unworthy of even a tryout SIMPLY because it was philippino. The developer, who is trying one of the things that you people here in this site long for, which is to develop an interesting, original RPG, is getting negative press because of the simple fact of where the dev house is based. This is racism, and I don't want to hear anyone TRYING to say otherwise. You may feel your racism is justified (racists always do) but that doesn't change what it is.

Until something is proven otherwise, I'd hold anything coming out of such an environment in definite question when the technical basis is/has been lacking for some time. Would you buy a car made in Niger? Probably the first thing to come out of a consumer's mouth with be "What do they know about cars, and what kind of faccilities do they have to make sure it's a good car worth my money?" and would be highly skeptical until a manufacturer did prove otherwise. In this case, the game is pretty much someone's pet project and I hold such releases in question to begin with.

 

[Constipated Craprunner]

ALmost every racial minority in the US has more money than the average person in their home town.
AFrican Americans are the richest African population anywhere, Greek Americans are compartivley rich, Armenians, Hispanics, Iraqis, Saudis, Kuwaities, Chinese, Taiwanese, almost everybody.
Forced Prostitution? What are these people, Lidiyans?

 

[Vault Dweller]

don't know...I guess there's a cultural difference where I just can't understand why a father would essentially rape his daughter repeatedly in order to "train" her into prostitution.

Yep, that's what it is. Politically fucked up...er, I mean poltically correct people think that cultural differences are something nice and festive. Well it aint. It's shit like forcing kids to prostitution, raping infants to cure AIDS, female circumcison, polygamy, weird eating habits including cannibalism, etc. People who live in these places view these customs as perfectly normal, defending their right to do as they please when confronted.

By the same token, I suppose that these people feel the same way about the "western" culture seeing something horrible where we see ordinary things.

Probably the first thing to come out of a consumer's mouth with be "What do they know about cars, and what kind of faccilities do they have to make sure it's a good car worth my money?" and would be highly skeptical until a manufacturer did prove otherwise

I agree with that. I question their ability to make a RPG, just like I would question any RPG coming from ID Software, until proven otherwise.

 

[Saint_Proverbius]

Yep, that's what it is. Politically fucked up...er, I mean poltically correct people think that cultural differences are something nice and festive. Well it aint. It's shit like forcing kids to prostitution, raping infants to cure AIDS, female circumcison, polygamy, weird eating habits including cannibalism, etc. People who live in these places view these customs as perfectly normal, defending their right to do as they please when confronted.

By the same token, I suppose that these people feel the same way about the "western" culture seeing something horrible where we see ordinary things.

Well, I remember taking anthropology in high school, and I remember the teacher telling us that all cultures are equally valid. I just don't see that at all for a number of reasons.

I fail to see how a culture that's never advanced is the equivalent of one that did, for example. We've got people running around in the rainforest that are still poking animals with pointed sticks, so how the hell are they even remotely equal to the modern world? You're talking about a people who when sick, die. A people who breed constantly just to insure there is a next generation because of a high mortality rate. A people who can't really travel and experience anything more than the crappy little existance they've been dealing with for generations.

Basically, the benchmark for a culture should be how it strides and makes advancements, since advancement is often the benchmark for how well the people in that culture live. A more advanced culture often has longer lifespans, for example. They often have more educated peoples, better lifestyles, and so on.

I've never been one to say, "Hey, we're shooting men in to space, meanwhile, you haven't even managed to shoot an arrow. CONGRATULATIONS! WE'RE EQUAL!"

 

[Constipated Craprunner]

Welcome to my world.
In my fucking shit hole, we have yet to mention Greece or Persia or anything. Nothing.
"Now, the empire of Nogai was a stateless society that entailed xxxxxxx, and was more or less a primative band of barbarians while the Greeks where finding the circumferance of the earth and inventing democracy. But people over at the Nation of Islam think that civilization started in africa, therefore we have to talk about that shit!"

 

[Walks with the Snails]

Yeah, I never got that whole "History is written by the victor" crap. Seems nowadays it's written by the one who's got the whole wretched and whiny and downtrodden thing down pat. Winning at anything other than that just proves you are evil.

 

[Constipated Craprunner]

It's actually sad. I am in an almost entirely African American neigborhood, and I just feelt lost as a kid. I went to all the AfAm History Fair, I was just confused- where are my ancestors? I think I can speak for a few other people in my generation. Iam lost- my culture is crap, I am in a turbulant time of my life in turbulent times. O god, this is whining, but still, it is true.
"We descoverd how useful peanuts are."
"We did everything else."

 

[Constipated Craprunner]

Anyway, I think that Eco is planning on writing a novel on the history of this topic. :D
How did it go from this to here?

 

[Walks with the Snails]

Read this, maybe it will make you feel better.

http://www.americanheritage.com/AMHER/2 ... gwar.shtml

We are the West, and we've been kicking ass for 3000 years!

 

[Constipated Craprunner]

Bullshit. Western civilization is crap- the entire idea is garbage. If Persia is east, how do you explain the fact that alot of Greek culture is based upon Lidyan and Persian elements? Or how about the fact that the "Roman Empire", was, in the end, an "Eastern" empire with it's capital in Rome. THere is Civilization and than there are Barbarians. The Chinese have contributed immensely, the Arabs and several others have done alot.

 

[Walks with the Snails]

Damn, you read fast.

I think there are certain differences in cultures as they have developed. And nobody has a monopoly on great discoveries. But if different cultures develop ideas and share them, does that mean they're all the same? Did we suddenly start thinking like the Chinese when we took their gunpowder invention and ran with it? Or do the Chinese suddenly adopt our mindset when they get their hands on economic concepts we developed?

And the article was just something funny I remembered reading a while back. I liked it because it sounded interesting yet vaguely blasphemous at the same time. And it mostly covered military aspects, not all the other stuff.

 

[Saint_Proverbius]

Actually, one thing I liked about that article was what it mentioned about the United States taking up for Muslims in certain wars, because it's fairly ironic that they claim that the United States is trying to stamp out Islam when we've liberated Kuwait from Saddam in 1991, as well as getting the no-fly-zones established in Iraq to keep Saddam from gassing the Shiites and the and the Kurds, and so on.

 

[Constipated Craprunner]

I am as big a fan as Karl Marx as anybody, but is he Western? His father was a converted Jew, and the entire idea sounds alot like the kibbutz. Jesus the Christ is the best example- a "Jewish" god, with quite alot of Jewish ideas (anarchy), but at the sime time his ideas on heaven sound almost neo-platonical.

 

[Vault Dweller]

But if different cultures develop ideas and share them, does that mean they're all the same? Did we suddenly start thinking like the Chinese when we took their gunpowder invention and ran with it? Or do the Chinese suddenly adopt our mindset when they get their hands on economic concepts we developed?

I think that culture is a mindset of a nation. It does not depend on discoveries or technologies or even religion. So even the term "western" is technically incorrect as there is a huge difference among North America, Continental Europe, and Britain, although all of them have similar technological level, similar religion, etc. So although we can trace many social, political, technological things to other "cultures" and regions, it does not change a recipient culture, and it does not bring both cultures closer together.