Game News Anito announced

Walks with the Snails · Mar 25, 2003

I think we agree a lot more than we disagree, though. There are a ton of ways of thinking that the U.S., Europe, and other Western nations share. It's like the Republicans and Democrats over here, or when you get in arguments with your friends or family. You all probably agree on a whole hell of a lot, it's just what you don't that tends to be interesting and is what you focus on. I mean, how interesting would it be to have a discussion where you just sit around rattling off things you agree on. Chances are you aren't really going to care if, or try to stop, someone from doing something you agree with, either. And if you didn't have so much in common anyway, you really wouldn't have much of a basis to even start disagreeing.

I can completely follow what a European is going to say about things, and their underlying assumptions, even if I happen to disagree. When I really get a good view into something like the Japanese or the Arab mindset, a lot seems fairly nonsensical to me and I wouldn't even know where to start to have a reasoned discussion with them over some things unless I or they, probably both, made a really serious attempt to try to follow the other side's reasoning and realized we're not working under a lot of the same assumptions.

Constipated Craprunner · Mar 26, 2003

The Hatred of a Donkey for a Horse is worse than an Octupus for a ostrich. We hate the people who we agree on everything accept a few things more than we hate the people we have nothing in common with. Say for instance the triangular hatred between the Jews, Arabs and the Christians compared to the Christian-Hindu relations.

Astromarine · Mar 26, 2003

Vault D, how does your separation of Culture and Technological advancement mesh with Saint P's statement that your culture is inherently better than the Amazonian Indians' because of technological advancements?

For me, the common definition of culture is anything from food, to arts, to philosophy, to religion. Granted, the differences in philosophy can *bring* different technological states (frex, we could have a culture that states blood transfusions are unholy) but that doesn't make them *worse* in a purely moral sense. I mean, yeah, *for us* it sounds worse, but if you analyse it in a purely moral viewpoint, they can be perfectly right to do that *if, in fact, it IS unholy to do it". This is the basis of all cultural misunderstandings. You apply ethical judgements of your system to another system's effects. The child raping that takes place in those cultures you mention, you can bet your left testicle would be disapproved of just as much by the large majority of the rest of that same culture. They are not products of the culture itself, they are products of extreme poverty(and I mean *extreme*. American poor have no fucking idea how it can get in another country. What, do you think mangy rabies-infested dogs off the street is some kind of cultural delicacy?) or complete and utter terror. The child-raping to cure AIDS is NOT a fucking cultural tradition, get real. It's an act of complete desperation by people without the education to understand how sickness and viruses work. They would probably be stoned to death if it was left to their tribal elders.

Our culture makes it reprehensible to say the phrase "god damn it" in some circles. It tells us smoking pot is a crime, while drinking yourself stupid is alright if you're over 21 in the US, a bit younger everywhere else. Lately, people have been reprehended and arrested for disagreeing with the ruling body. It's almost tabu to show sex on TV, yet the news is chock full of violence. Bukakke movies exist. Don't tell me "western" culture is the pinnacle of human evolution or exceedingly logical. We would have much to learn from non-dominant cultures.

As for my earlier post being about bashing America, get real again. I mentioned Western culture, of which America is an example and the dominant power today. So what, all tricks americans come up with, I can find an example of in Europe middle ages, so get off the paranoia. I mean, I gave an example of what I meant by that phrase earlier in my post, and it comes from a Portuguese sailor from the time where the dominant population of your beloved country had feather on the hair.

As for debunking PC arguments. I don't give a fuck. Yeah, all you say about PC arguments is true. I fucking *hate* PC. I call blacks blacks, because a guy living next door to me whose grandparents were born 100 meters from where he lives is not "african". I call blind people blind, and tell most feminists that is they want to burn bras, at least give them to me, the ones my wife buys are expensive. But what you are doing is called "strawman arguments" I think, because you are implying (erroneously) my position to be PC, and attacking that, instead of attacking my position.

As for the original argument. I see your point, but are not seeing mine, which means your position is more entrenched and defensive. You say if a car comes from Nigeria you would ask several questions about nigerian industry. I wouldn't. I would ask "is the car *good*? Is it *safe*?" I guess it comes from living in a small country and getting used to buying stuff from so many different places. I can see how living in a self-sufficient country you can develop a "where does it come from?" mentality. Hey, it's that culture thing again.
The developers of Anito are Philippino? great for them. Is the game good? Of course I will wait for reviews, like for any other publisher for whom I have not developed brand loyalty, but not *more* than for any other publisher. That's our difference.
It's like the example I gave earlier. Exioce is Chinese, from what I hear. Does knowinfg that make you suspicious about the sites he makes? Did it make you want to check the source for commie propaganda? Did it make you doubt his skills? So please accept that while you may be an incredibly nice and caring person, you carry (like everyone else) a certain degree of personal bias to all opinions you formulate.

Abilio

Walks with the Snails · Mar 26, 2003

Astromarine said:
The child-raping to cure AIDS is NOT a fucking cultural tradition, get real. It's an act of complete desperation by people without the education to understand how sickness and viruses work. They would probably be stoned to death if it was left to their tribal elders.

Maybe you should read up on cultures more before making assumptions. This is the land of female circumcision, where girls are forbidden to refuse a request of sex from any man who asks, and where wives are considered lower than cattle. And guess what, it was the elders who came up with the whole raping girls thing. If you ask an anthropologist, they'll say the only universal taboo among all cultures is mother-son incest. Take a moment to think of everything that *doesn't* include.

Our culture makes it reprehensible to say the phrase "god damn it" in some circles. It tells us smoking pot is a crime, while drinking yourself stupid is alright if you're over 21 in the US, a bit younger everywhere else. Lately, people have been reprehended and arrested for disagreeing with the ruling body. It's almost tabu to show sex on TV, yet the news is chock full of violence. Bukakke movies exist. Don't tell me "western" culture is the pinnacle of human evolution or exceedingly logical. We would have much to learn from non-dominant cultures.

Sure and many of us rail against the idiocy we see in our own culture and try to change it as well. That's another one our strengths, though, we actually seem to be progressing as time goes by.

As for my earlier post being about bashing America, get real again.

I was careful to avoid pointing what I said about that directly at you, if you go back and read it carefully. I've just noticed a tendency, which may or may not apply to you, but which I've seen before and felt was worth remarking on.

It's like the example I gave earlier. Exioce is Chinese, from what I hear. Does knowinfg that make you suspicious about the sites he makes? Did it make you want to check the source for commie propaganda? Did it make you doubt his skills? So please accept that while you may be an incredibly nice and caring person, you carry (like everyone else) a certain degree of personal bias to all opinions you formulate.

Nice strawman of your own. When did anyone ever say Exitium was acting suspicious because he's Chinese?

Saint_Proverbius · Mar 26, 2003

Astromarine said:
Lately, people have been reprehended and arrested for disagreeing with the ruling body.

That depends on how you choose to disagree. If you're committing a crime while disagreeing, then you're going to get arrested. Blocking roads, damaging property and vandalism, throwing things at people, and so forth are not exactly legal.

Vault Dweller · Mar 26, 2003

Wow, long post. Let's see what you wrote here.

Astromarine said:
how does your separation of Culture and Technological advancement mesh with Saint P's statement that your culture is inherently better than the Amazonian Indians' because of technological advancements?

It does not. I disagreed but did not have time to reply. Culture is culture, tech is tech. We are no better then butt-naked people in a jungle, just like people who are busy working and climbing a corporate ladder now are no better then people who post here. :roll:

It's a lifestyle choice. A friend of mine used to be a sr. marketing mgr downtown, finally got sick and tired of bs, backstabbing, etc, opened up a small shoe repair shop and now he's the happiest guy alive. It's not my choice, but i respect his, and don't look down on him.

You apply ethical judgements of your system to another system's effects

I don't think I did. I even mentioned that other cultures could see ordinary things in American cultures as horrible (like refusing or providing minimal medical service to those without med. insurance).

The child-raping to cure AIDS is NOT a fucking cultural tradition, get real

I never called it a tradition, but it's a trait nonetheless. There are many poor countries in Africa alone, they all have poor education and AIDS problem, but infant raping happens mostly in Southern Africa. May be cultural trait is a bad word for that. Find another.

Don't tell me "western" culture is the pinnacle of human evolution or exceedingly logical. We would have much to learn from non-dominant cultures.

Much to learn? Like what? Granted "western" culture is no pinnacle of human evolution, but I don't see anything better on the market. I don't fancy myself to be a historian, or politician, or sociologist. I've simply been in way too many places one way or another, they are much worse (in my opinion of course). For every 'western' problem that they cure they offer 5 local ones to balance it out.

You say if a car comes from Nigeria you would ask several questions about nigerian industry. I wouldn't. I would ask "is the car *good*? Is it *safe*?"

That's a very ...I dunno, what's the word?..."silly" approach. You CAN"T ask whether it's good or safe, 'cause the answer dictated by sales logic would be very good, very safe. I highly doubt that you would risk buying a never-seen-before vehicle only to find 5,000 miles later that it fucked. So the only real question would be about the nigerian (or whatever) industry, about who's backing them up, which major company is supplying them with parts, etc.

but not *more* than for any other publisher. That's our difference

Alright, alright, you are officially a better person then I am

I can see how living in a self-sufficient country you can develop a "where does it come from?" mentality. Hey, it's that culture thing again.

Of course it's the culture thing, and there is nothing wrong with that. I chose to live in a country that fits my ...what did you call it? ethical judgement, so I apply the same criteria to every product that I use. In regard to gaming industry especially RPGs as in the most complicated and difficult to make right games, where and whom a RPG is coming from is very important. I think that the German RPG culture is the closest to American, yet Gothic's interface was a bitch, the controls were the reasons many people gave up, etc.

Saint_Proverbius · Mar 26, 2003

Vault Dweller said:
It does not. I disagreed but did not have time to reply. Culture is culture, tech is tech. We are no better then butt-naked people in a jungle, just like people who are busy working and climbing a corporate ladder now are no better then people who post here. It's a lifestyle choice. A friend of mine used to be a sr. marketing mgr downtown, finally got sick and tired of bs, backstabbing, etc, opened up a small shoe repair shop and now he's the happiest guy alive. It's not my choice, but i respect his, and don't look down on him.

That's apples and oranges about the shoe cobbler, really. The emphasis on advancement is part of the culture, and if a culture hasn't made any strides for bettering itself, then it's stagnated. Basically, technologic advancement is a mark on the growth of a culture.

You have tribal cultures out there that never developed writing for example, which any decent culture needs to accurately convey ideas and history. Passing stories down from elder to elder doesn't work for this, since each iteration of elder will either forget some details or embelish on them.

The term backwards culture is fitting, because they've allowed themselves to be lapped, repeatedly, by other cultures who have made advancements and strides.

This is a hell of a lot different than one person deciding to change careers, because there's no decision being made here by the people, really. We have the option to live in a thatch hut if we choose to do so. They don't have the option to live in a modern house with HVAC, electricity and plumbing.

I never called it a tradition, but it's a trait nonetheless. There are many poor countries in Africa alone, they all have poor education and AIDS problem, but infant raping happens mostly in Southern Africa. May be cultural trait is a bad word for that. Find another.

It's also a tradiation rooted in the lack of advancement! The idea that you get AIDS from a lack of purity, so you have to take the purity of someone else to regain yours isn't something a more advanced culture that understands what HIV is would do. After all, it has nothing to do with purity, it has to do with a virus, right?

That's basically my point. This kind of thing stems from basic ignorance of how things work. If they knew how things worked because they'd attempted to better themselves through educational advancement and knowledge, they wouldn't be doing things like this.

Vault Dweller · Mar 26, 2003

Wow, another long post. Twice in a row. I guess it's my lucky day :D

Saint_Proverbius said:
The emphasis on advancement is part of the culture, and if a culture hasn't made any strides for bettering itself, then it's stagnated. Basically, technologic advancement is a mark on the growth of a culture.

Hmm, technically there is a chance that there might be a nuclear conflict that may destroy all technologically advanced nations leaving only tribal civilization as nobody gonna waste a nuke on some jungle. That would make them a better culture on a long run. :lol:

I know, I know it's not the best argument, I'm just warmng up

Basically you rate cultures based primarily on their tech level. That's too one-sided. We can argue (and may be we should) about definition of culture, but whatever it is it's not a synonym of tech advancement. It may be a factor but only one out of many. Maya and Aztecs cultures were highly developed on many levels. Their lack of technology although contributed to their fall does not make their cultural advancements less impressive.

You have tribal cultures out there that never developed writing for example, which any decent culture needs to accurately convey ideas and history

Like I said may be should discuss the definition of culture first. Here I agree with you, writing is an important prerequisite of a culture.

This is a hell of a lot different than one person deciding to change careers, because there's no decision being made here by the people, really. We have the option to live in a thatch hut if we choose to do so. They don't have the option to live in a modern house with HVAC, electricity and plumbing.

They had an option to go after a "modern house with HVAC, electricity and plumbing" but chose not to. What do you think is the difference between the US and the USSR countries? The people, the same people (one head, 2 arms, 2 legs) who chose to build something in the US, chose to play utopic games or play the blame game instead of actually doing something. It's always the people, brother.

This is a hell of a lot different than one person deciding to change careers

I should have made it clear. He gave up a fancy 85k career with a "future"(technological way of living) to live a simple life fixing shoes for 40-45k a year max. It's not about changing careers, it's about giving up technological achievments in favour of simple yet fulfilling (for him, I don't dig it myself) life, it's about a choice. Giving up is about the same as never going after it, is it not? It's still a choice, the only difference is when it's made. That's why I used it as an example.

It's also a tradiation rooted in the lack of advancement! The idea that you get AIDS from a lack of purity, so you have to take the purity of someone else to regain yours isn't something a more advanced culture that understands what HIV is would do

Like I said, there are other countries with AIDS, there are other poor countries, yet this element is common only to a specific region. Thus it's not a trait of poor education but of cultural beliefs. May be if they knew better (like you said) they won't be doing it, then again, psychic hotlines are very popular in tech advanced North America :wink:

Constipated Craprunner · Mar 27, 2003

A culture is evolution- if it fits in a Niche, it works. The Hussites did not work because the Renissanse was not full on and the Orthodox church was not as present in certain areas, but the opposite situation with Luther and Calvin.
Therefore the growth of Islam is not due to a conscious movement, it is simple evolution. The thing that matters is the almost free movement between culture to culture. Ghandi's ideas worked to some extent, but because of certain situations in India he was eventuall killed.
THerefore PAcifisim+India=Not work. Like Dinosaurs+65,000,000 ago=Not work.
Also, mother-son incest. It's called early Mideval Japan, and the first novel.

MF · Mar 27, 2003

Cultures are made up of the common history and present life of a lot of indviduals.
It's the combined actions, thoughts and legacy of these individuals that shapes the culture.

Right now, we're living in a world with so much communication between some of the culture, that they are melting together to a certain extent. Not exactly, and in some cases it's not so much melting together as (vaguely) copying parts of each other, but it's happening.

Fact is, we see a trend in massive cultures and their mingling. Of course, European nations all have their own culture. The United States have their own culture, each state probably has its own culture. But they are somewhat alike. Alike in the fact that all the individuals percieved as part of this culture have access to the same information, and perhaps share some history.

So you should look at it on an individual basis. For one, no large culture is completely backwards. There are always elemenets that have scientific knowledge and technical advancement, usually gotten from places where other cultures are dominant. Nevertheless, this does not make every one part of such a particular culture backwards, only some people.

Every person part of a culture also FORMS hat particular culture, and it's an ongoing, neverending process. It's so fluid that the point, in an absolute sense, is moot. In a relative sense though, and to generalize, it's useful to make the world easier by grouping people.

This grouping is what's causing antagonistic behaviour among men. It's what's causing some cultures, regardless of technical advancement or overall hapiness/welfare, to be considered worse than others.

I, myself condemn other people for doing things I consider wrong. But what I consider wrong may not even what my neighbour considers wrong, let alone that I can speak for an entire culture. Or condemn an entire culture.

Which does not mean that, when you look at the world in a realistic manner, some areas just have more stupid and incompetent people than other areas, be it through a lack of education or genetic deficiency

Sol Invictus · Apr 18, 2003

Astromarine said:
It's like the example I gave earlier. Exioce is Chinese, from what I hear. Does knowinfg that make you suspicious about the sites he makes? Did it make you want to check the source for commie propaganda? Did it make you doubt his skills? So please accept that while you may be an incredibly nice and caring person, you carry (like everyone else) a certain degree of personal bias to all opinions you formulate.

That's Exitium. How bloody difficult can it be for you to repeat my name?

And why would I be spreading communist propaganda? Chinese is only my ethnicity, I'm not Chinese in the national sense.

Sol Invictus · Apr 18, 2003

Walks with the Snails said:
Maybe you should read up on cultures more before making assumptions. This is the land of female circumcision, where girls are forbidden to refuse a request of sex from any man who asks, and where wives are considered lower than cattle. And guess what, it was the elders who came up with the whole raping girls thing.

I wish I lived in such a place.

NOT!

I'd hate it if the powers that be reincarnated me as a REALLY PRETTY GIRL who lived in such a place. I'd get raped daily. w00t!

:-(

Sure and many of us rail against the idiocy we see in our own culture and try to change it as well. That's another one our strengths, though, we actually seem to be progressing as time goes by.

Unlike some other cultures, which seem to be digressing.

Nice strawman of your own. When did anyone ever say Exitium was acting suspicious because he's Chinese?

Gotta love those false dichotomies.

Sol Invictus · Apr 18, 2003

MF said:
Right now, we're living in a world with so much communication between some of the culture, that they are melting together to a certain extent. Not exactly, and in some cases it's not so much melting together as (vaguely) copying parts of each other, but it's happening.

Like the mass popularity of Japanese Anime in the United States and Europe, and the mass popularity of violent American movies in Japan. But these are high-tech cultures we're talking about. You could bring about the issue of hippies in the United States, a culture adopted from the Hopi natives, but one would have to ask - did it last? And when it was around, wasn't it nothing more than a fringe culture? The masses still clung onto their working jobs and regular non-hippie lives. It was just to the ridiculous assertions of this fringe culture that it made such an impact in American and British history. Regardless of the impact, the masses didn't exactly follow suit, nor does it appear to have had much impact on the state of the world today - the majority of Americans and British support the war in Iraq. It may seem to many like the hippie-engendered Liberals who oppose the war are the 'masses', but in actual fact - they are only the most vocal.

Fact is, we see a trend in massive cultures and their mingling. Of course, European nations all have their own culture. The United States have their own culture, each state probably has its own culture. But they are somewhat alike. Alike in the fact that all the individuals percieved as part of this culture have access to the same information, and perhaps share some history.

Which is why hippies are, for the most part, 'tolerated' among conservatives.

It is doubtful that neither hippies, nor conservatives would tolerate the presence of rapists (who believe that by taking the purity of an innocent girl, they will lose their AIDS) in their midst. A culture such as that would be far too 'foreign' for anyone possessing a civilized mentality to accept.

So you should look at it on an individual basis. For one, no large culture is completely backwards. There are always elemenets that have scientific knowledge and technical advancement, usually gotten from places where other cultures are dominant. Nevertheless, this does not make every one part of such a particular culture backwards, only some people.

I really don't see what elements of scientific and technical knowledge of the aforementioned African rapists have to offer. They're so backward it's almost primal. Please take note that this culture in question isn't anywhere as advanced as the Australian Aboragines, although backward and ignorant of the law, whom many members that belong to this cultural group possess technical knowledge pertaining to the wildlife and the outback and certainly live by a moral code, as do most people in the world. It's just sad that the youth of this cultural group chooses to demean white females to the level of 'rape bait' as an expression of their hatred towards the white 'colonialists'. While these acts do not engender the Aboragine culture on its original level, they certainly engender what the culture has become - and ultimately, that's the only thing that matters when we speak of culture in the modern world.

Every person part of a culture also FORMS hat particular culture, and it's an ongoing, neverending process. It's so fluid that the point, in an absolute sense, is moot. In a relative sense though, and to generalize, it's useful to make the world easier by grouping people.

See above.

This grouping is what's causing antagonistic behaviour among men. It's what's causing some cultures, regardless of technical advancement or overall hapiness/welfare, to be considered worse than others.

It's about a social philosophy. Note the differences between Utilitarianism and Nietzsche's response to Utilitarianism: Egoism. Utilitarianism emphasizes the 'greatest happiness' or 'happiness for the majority' sacrificing the individual, while Nietzsche emphasizes the Ubermensch and his will to power: his survival as an individual in a world dominated by the culture of the majority - 'to hell with the masses'.

Why is this relevent, you ask?

It is relevent because each society/culture suffers an inferiority complex stemming from instincts of self-preservation. In short, each society/culture perceives itself as the 'minority' and decides that in order to preserve itself, it must annihilate other cultures or simply force them to conform. This feeling remains even when this culture of the minority becomes normality - the majority, so to speak. Instincts remaining, it continues to perceive other minority cultures as a threat to its existence, and tries to eradicate them. Those which it cannot eradicate, it absorbs - much like anime in the West, minus things like Bishounen (beautiful men) and Cosplay (costume play) both Japanese traits which are regarded as 'taboo' in the West, but accepted as a part of the norm in Japan.

mr. lamat · Nov 25, 2003

most of the outrage filipinos, or pinoys if you will, have in regard to american's does have serious roots. from support of a brutal dictator, Marcos, to the establishment of what are called Free Economic Zones, in the country. due to a WTO agreement, american companies such as Nike or Levi's can setup massive factories in a region, pay thier employees wages lower than the national standard, not pay taxes or medical benefits and pollute like a fat man at a chili cook-off. now, while the government of the philipines did agree to this horrendous labour accord, there is a real need for jobs and foreign investment in that country... and if they didn't agree, the country next door would. it's the hard reality of living in a world under the iron grasp of the artificially inflated us-petrodollar (oil is only traded, bought or sold with us money... any oil transaction raises the value of the us dollar while devaluing anothers... neat huh?).

and there's also something to be said for philipino soldiers being denied veterans benefits from ww2, eventho they fought a guerilla war with the japanese for the americans for close to three years.

what's past is prologue and also not up for editting. and anyone who thinks whackin' spanish colonials wasn't a good thang needs to get thier head examined. i think they should dig vasco de gama up and hang'em again...

Saint_Proverbius · Nov 26, 2003

mr. lamat said:
what's past is prologue and also not up for editting. and anyone who thinks whackin' spanish colonials wasn't a good thang needs to get thier head examined. i think they should dig vasco de gama up and hang'em again...

There's not too many people that didn't wack Spanish colonials. They were good for wacking.

Jerky · Dec 16, 2003

I love the Philippines!

Since the topic has changed in this thread about a million times, I figured I would try to see if anyone still reads this.

I am an American (as white as it gets) and I lived in the philippines for two years. I did not want to leave after my two years because I did not want to return to my American culture. I have read everything in this thread and just wanted to add my $0.02. If the accused racists still read this, I would like to hear their opinions about this.

I would return and stay if I could (I have been home in the U.S. for 2 years now). I am definately excited about anything coming out of the Philippines that will reach the global market. I actually would like to help Anino and any other developer of videogames in the Philippines. Anyways, That's what I have to say for now.

Saint_Proverbius · Dec 16, 2003

Well, Anito does prove that Filipinos can get together, pickpocket enough money to fund a game, and then stop pickpocketting long enough to develop it.

Okay, kidding aside, Anito does show that you can get a group of very talented people in places like the Filipines who can rise above any situations there. If you look through the bios on the developers, you'll notice that most of them are professional people. They came together, and decided to make a game. They worked very hard and have created, in their first attempt, something that looks as good as any professional studio could do and even has some nifty features to boot. That's a story with a moral, I believe.

Derper · Apr 1, 2010

Posting in news comments

Kosmonaut · Apr 1, 2010

Anito?

It would have been interesting to watch the release of this game in countries where spanish is spoken, as Anito means "little anus".

Even more lulzy is that spanish is spoken in Philippines.

Monk · Apr 2, 2010

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anito

Clockwork Knight · Apr 2, 2010

Kosmonaut said:
Anito means "little anus".

Even more lulzy is that spanish is spoken in Philippines.

Wikipedia said:
Anito (or Anitu) is the collective name for Pre-Hispanic belief system/s that existed in the Philippines.

WHAT THE FUCK

mytgroo · Apr 2, 2010

Anito Defend A Land Enraged was done in 2003

Anito Defend A Land Enraged was done in 2003. It is like a Baldurs Gate clone. I played the demo but did not get the game.
http://www.gametunnel.com/anito-defend- ... review.php The Game Tunnel Review is excellent.