Interview Another Oblivion fan interview

Vault Dweller · Aug 28, 2005

Sandelfron said:
Vault Dweller said:

MSFD does participate in many other-than-Oblivion discussions

Click to expand...

Please link me to an example.

Here are some:
http://www.rpgcodex.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?p=143769
http://www.rpgcodex.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?p=130021
http://www.rpgcodex.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?p=127530

Sandelfron · Aug 28, 2005

hussar said:
Nice way of ingoring my point though.

You have no point; you're pointless.

hussar said:
When did I unreasonably bash a game or a person here. Provide an example or shut up. The only thing I did was to point out how wrong you were in bashing MSFD.

That's the most ridiculous attempt to flee to the moral highground I've heard.
You never criticise a game or a person's posts? Pull your head out of your arse.

Failed attempt to "fit in with the Codex" on your part. Don't try so hard.

I see, so you imagine yourself part of a club now.

So you want to argue AND to have the material handed to you.

It was a rhetorical statement, or don't they have them in Joisey?

Sandelfron · Aug 28, 2005

Vault Dweller said:
Sandelfron said:

Vault Dweller said:

MSFD does participate in many other-than-Oblivion discussions

Click to expand...

Please link me to an example.

Click to expand...

Here are some:
http://www.rpgcodex.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?p=143769
http://www.rpgcodex.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?p=130021
http://www.rpgcodex.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?p=127530

I stand corrected that technically not every post MSFD makes mentions
Bethsoft products, but it's been my experience that the majority do.

Incidentally, I'm not the only person of this opinion; there are quite
a few negative reactions to be found about 'Bethsoft PR' threads.
Perhaps I should put my money where my mouth is and attempt to
dig them up.

corvax · Aug 28, 2005

Sandelfron said:
You have no point; you're pointless.

Do I have to spell it out for you? You're being a dick without backing it up. Then if someone points it out you resort to ad Hominem.

That's the most ridiculous attempt to flee to the moral highground I've heard.
You never criticise a game or a person's posts? Pull your head out of your arse.

Almost never without backing it up. In other instances I'm just busting that person's chops, which should be fairly obvious.

It was a rhetorical statement, or don't they have them in Joisey?

You've still failed to acknowledge the fact that youv'e made a statement without evidence to back it up. Failed at making a Jersey joke too.

corvax · Aug 28, 2005

Sandelfron said:
Incidentally, I'm not the only person of this opinion; there are quite
a few negative reactions to be found about 'Bethsoft PR' threads.
Perhaps I should put my money where my mouth is and attempt to
dig them up.

You're confusing one person's posts with silly Oblivion previews. Please do put your money where your mouth is and notice that in most cases it's all about curbing the rushed cynicism.

Sandelfron · Aug 28, 2005

hussar said:
Do I have to spell it out for you? You're being a dick without backing it up. Then if someone points it out you resort to ad Hominem.

You're the one insinuating I write what I write to gain entry to some fictitious club,
which qualifies as 'ad hominem' (you pretentious fuck).

Almost never without backing it up. In other instances I'm just busting that person's chops, which should be fairly obvious.

I see, so you seriously expect me to trawl through your crappy posts looking for
an instance of you criticising a game or person's posts? As for busting my chops,
you're welcome to try, if you don't mind me handing you your e-arse to you
every time you open your mouth.

corvax · Aug 28, 2005

Sandelfron said:
You're the one insinuating I write what I write to gain entry to some fictitious club,which qualifies as 'ad hominem' (you pretentious fuck).

You thought that was an insult? A slight jab and a valid one too. I'll keep criticizing your pointless and unsupported bashing for as long as you continue to ignore the point that you said something completely out on a limb and now refuse to acknowledge it. That my friend does qualify you to the "It's the Codex so I can bitch about anyting" club.

I see, so you seriously expect me to trawl through your crappy posts looking for
an instance of you criticising a game or person's posts?

Yes. If you want to argue that I'm "fleeing to the moral highground" then most defenitely yes please do provide evidence. Otherwise you just contine shooting crap.

Drakron · Aug 28, 2005

Sol Invictus said:
Don't you think it's odd that you can point out everything you "found wrong with Oblivion" without having actually played it?

No, for the same reason I can point out everything I find wrong with "Son of the Mask " without having to watch it.

Any argument that is "you can only voice a opinion after you tried" its a very old and very STUPID argument since we can make a opinion without having to test that opinion, if you think otherwise ... well perhaps you sould get some gay sex to make sure you are not homosexual, after all you never tried it did you?

The only people that use that argument is when they are trying to sell something and I dont recall MSFD using that argument over Oblivion, he might defend the game and some of its features but at least he does not uses that argument as a rebuttal (perhaps because he knows the moment he uses it that means he lost the argument).

Sandelfron · Aug 28, 2005

hussar said:
Sandelfron said:

You're the one insinuating I write what I write to gain entry to some fictitious club,which qualifies as 'ad hominem' (you pretentious fuck).

Click to expand...

You thought that was an insult? A slight jab and a valid one too

You really should look up meanings to latin phrases if you're going to try using them
to sound impressive, otherwise you look like a pretentious moron. 'Proof' Ad Hominem
(proof by catcalling) is an attempt to win an argument with an attack on a person
and/or their motivations.

I'll keep criticizing your pointless and unsupported bashing for as long as you continue to ignore the point that you said something completely out on a limb.

Ok then pedant, in a short while I'll do a trawl.

corvax · Aug 28, 2005

So ignoring what I said, calling me pointless, making a bad Jersey joke, stating that I'm fleeing to the moral highground when I clearly said that you can't back up your argument is not ad Hominem. You're just too funny. True I may attack you but at least there's truth in it. But that's O.K. I'll be the bigger person here and step aside for a while... let you bask in your awesomness.

Sandelfron · Aug 28, 2005

hussar said:
..fleeing to the moral highground when I clearly said that
you can't back up your argument is not ad Hominem.

Saying that my opinions are not my own, but are to ingratiate myself to some
fictitious 'club' is an ad hominem attempt. Anyway pedant, here's the 'backup':

http://www.rpgcodex.com/phpBB/viewtopic ... 934#140934

There's an example of you attacking a person, you even admit to it in your
next post, so sit down and shut up.

Spazmo · Aug 28, 2005

The old "you haven't played it so you can't say it sucks!" argument is worthless, because by that exact same logic, a fan of the game wouldn't be allowed to be optimistic about the game because he hasn't played it and doesn't know it'll be good. The only permissible tone when discussing upcoming games would be flat and total neutrality, which would, well, suck.

Although I admit I've never tried being completely neutral in my reactions to everything, so I guess I couldn't say for sure that it'd suck (apparently).

corvax · Aug 28, 2005

Out of context and a little crude. Yes I'm attacking a person and their rather weak argument at the same time. See what I'm responding to, plus I'm backing up my attacks. Read the whole exchange. The other party agrees to contradicting himself, I ease up, and we both come to an agreeable conclusion. Your ad Hominem completely lacks any substance. Back up your original argument about MSFD, partner, which is my bigges beef with you. The rest is just trivial bullshit.

edit: 1/379 is 0.26% which does qualify as "almost never"

Sandelfron · Aug 28, 2005

hussar said:
Yes I'm attacking a person and their rather weak argument at the same time.

There - I'm correct. You're the fuckwit pedant that demanded I trawl through your
posts to prove your shit stinks just like everyone else's. That moral highground
of yours turned out to be quicksand.

Your ad Hominem completely lacks any substance.

Apart from the imporant substance known as 'truth'. That's what you did,
don't try and get out of it with spurious value judgements now, you've
been rumbled sunshine. Look up a definition of 'ad hominem' so you don't
sound like such a pretentious moron next time.

Back up your original argument about MSFD..

I will. Just think, I could have done that by now instead of trawling through
the posts of an ignorant baboon's arse like you.

The rest is just trivial bullshit.

Which is something you seem to specialise in.

Sandelfron · Aug 28, 2005

Shagnak · Aug 28, 2005

Sorry, I admit I haven't read all of the thread properly, but whats wrong with 'clinkerbell' (MSFD?) mentioning Oblivion?
That's kinda what we want - to get the "inside skinny", misapprehensions corrected, and so on.
I'm not certain why this makes him a PR whore or whatever, but I better go back and read some of this shite to find out...

Edit:
Okay, nope. Can't really reach the same conclusion as you Sandel, sorry.
Most of the time he is answering queries and being generally helpful, hardly the hype-machine you make him out to be.
Oh well, different perspectives I guess.

Sandelfron · Aug 28, 2005

Shagnak said:
Sorry, I admit I haven't read all of the thread properly, but whats wrong with 'clinkerbell' (MSFD?) mentioning Oblivion?
That's kinda what we want - to get the "inside skinny", misapprehensions corrected, and so on.
I'm not certain why this makes him a PR whore or whatever, but I better go back and read some of this shite to find out...

Yep, I went through them using the forum search (doing this means you actually
have to read the posts, since you can't just link to each search result).

My opinion is drawn from the fact that I see a lot of references back to the product
when discussing other games, or playing barrack room lawyer when someone farts
at the product and dims the colour a little, in addition to answering queries etc.

Okay, nope. Can't really reach the same conclusion as you Sandel, sorry.
Most of the time he is answering queries and being generally helpful, hardly the hype-machine you make him out to be.
Oh well, different perspectives I guess.

Fair do's. I guess we'll just agree to differ on that one.

z3r'0' · Aug 28, 2005

Sandelfron said:
*whine* ... *bitch*

Sandlefron... Shut the fuck up.
This thread was burned to a crisp awhile ago, and you are just flame-bait now.

Sandelfron · Aug 28, 2005

z3r'0' said:
Sandlefron... Shut the fuck up.

No.

z3r'0' said:
This thread was burned to a crisp awhile ago, and you are just flame-bait now.

Perhaps you should read it before opening your mouth.

Sandelfron · Aug 28, 2005

Drakron said:
I would not advise that since the first page alone is about 98% about Oblivion (directly and indirectly) so he does have a point, at least about MSFD latest posting story.

Ta.

Of course its natural that is happening, right now RPGs on the PC are almost dead and there is really not much to talk about besides Gothic III and Oblivion with Gothic III still being for most past undisclosed.

Hopefully "Witcher" will have something to offer when it comes out. Personally,
I'm looking forward to Cthulu (published through Bethsoft, made elsewhere).

If MSFD wants to hype Oblivion to hell its his perogative, just like mine is to point out everything I found wrong with Oblivion,

Exactly (as it is mine to point out some people don't like rpgcodex becoming a Bethsoft advertorial).

I can say when Morrowind come out I admired Bethsoft to sticking up (for a good part) for what was the series basic gameplay but with Oblivion I see that Morrowind did not really "stick up" but rather "water down" the series and I stop admire Bethsoft and realized they are simply doing whatever the rest are doing.

It seems the way at the moment due to catering to consoles (discussed elsewhere
ad nauseum). Then again, it gives smaller software companies and groups of
independent developers a chance to do something original whilst the larger
companies are preoccupied with designing games that can be easily ported to XBox.

I can also honest say his "Bethsoft" tag does the effect of me completly disreguard whatever he says over Oblivion since he works for Bethsoft and I dont expect honestly from game developers about projects they are involved (directly and indirectly).

It's usually the party line since anything they say reflects on the company.

Sandelfron · Aug 28, 2005

The salvos have been fired on either side of this discussion, let's just bury it.

Quigs · Aug 28, 2005

*still would like an answer to his speed gamer alchemy question*

kris · Aug 29, 2005

Sol Invictus said:
Well I don't think it makes the game 'less complex' or even easier for that matter. In my opinion it makes your choices more drawn out. In Morrowind, your skill choices just seemed like "few of many" unimportant skills, since most of them weren't really important enough on their own and offered very little impact on the building of your character.

Of course less skills is less complex.
____________________-

Many skills where you have no use for everyone in game = Bad implementation and design
Many skills where all matters in game = Better RPG experience

If skills don't matter in a game then that is a fruit of bad design and gameplay, not something pointing out that the skill in itself is bad. If skills then are merged or taken away then it points towards the designer wanting to get rid off the problem instead of solving it. Or possibly trying to just make it less complex and more compact. It goes to show that computer games can't compete with PnP when it comes to roleplaying experience.

Calis · Aug 29, 2005

Spazmo said:
Although I admit I've never tried being completely neutral in my reactions to everything, so I guess I couldn't say for sure that it'd suck (apparently).

Zapp Brannigan said:
What makes a good man go neutral? Lust for gold? Power? Or were you just born with a heart full of neutrality?

Proweler · Aug 29, 2005

kris said:
It goes to show that computer games can't compete with PnP when it comes to roleplaying experience.

Good, now that is out of way can we on to the point wether the game will be fun and involving or not?

Stats arn't suposed to excist at all in an RPG, nececary evil to compair characters and monsters. Your character creates a matching set of stats, stats don't create a character. Two different characters can share the same set of stats.

So what does it matter when they make the game less complex? Aslong as it can cover for the character you have in mind it's good. The less I have to look at them the happyer I get. Less time spend on actually dealing whit your stats, gives you more time to mind the story and the world around you.

Interview Another Oblivion fan interview

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