Interview Another Oblivion fan interview

[Vault Dweller]

Stats arn't suposed to excist at all in an RPG, nececary evil to compair characters and monsters.

They don't exist to compare characters vs monsters, although in Oblivion they probably do, they exist to manage your character abilities and define what your character can and can not do. Let's say that you are about to climb a wall. Stats/Skills kick in and determine whether your character can do that. Not your will, not your strong belief that a character as awesome as yours should be able to succeed in everything, but stats and skills. Or your character attempts to persuade someone; again, skills take over and detemine your success. Just like in real life, actually.

Your character creates a matching set of stats, stats don't create a character.

They don't create characters, they DEFINE one.

Two different characters can share the same set of stats.

Different how? They are wearing different shirts? One's good, one's evil? If a game cares about it and reflects that one's good and one's evil, then they are truly different characters. If it doesn't, and TES games never did, being all about killing stuff and exploring, then they are the same characters.

So what does it matter when they make the game less complex?

It matters a lot. There is a difference between a well defined unique character and a character who's exactly the same as almost every other character in the game.

Aslong as it can cover for the character you have in mind it's good.

Well, if all you can come up with in your mind is an awesome fighter, or an awesome mage, or an awesome thief, or an awesome fighter/mage/thief, then you have nothing to worry about. If you want more details (a thief who climbs walls, uses short sword, and appreciates the benefits of backstabbing), then you are out of luck.

The less I have to look at them the happyer I get. Less time spend on actually dealing whit your stats, gives you more time to mind the story and the world around you.

Try adventure games then.

 

[Proweler]

Meh that's bull. You play a character and you don't godmod. Stats are an aid to it. It's nothing more then a rather complicated play after all. I hope that most people here still enjoy proper acting over being the ubershitzors. (Although it can be more fun to play and break an RPG system then to utilise it)

If the only entrance to the castle is by climbing a rock face, the rock wall obviously is going to be climbable for even the most clumsy person. (Couple of exceptions such as a play about not being able to get inside aside) If there is another entrance it's going to matter. You'll have people that can climb and people that can take the other entrance and people that take the other entrance regardless of their ability to climb.

Now In this particular play there will be a dozen characters. They are quite alike stats wise. Half of them has the Stat "CanClimbRockFace" 1 the other half has 0. They are all quite different, but their difference don't have to be noted for game mechanics, no other checks are going to be made in the play. The stat system might be the most uncomplicated system ever, the play can still be great if the experience is great.

Try adventure games then.

Funny thing that an adventure requires your skill, an rpg checks for character skill. Another funny thing is that if found most PnP systems to be excelling at combat because math and stats go so nice together while leaving the conversation to a players own skills - at least I assume I'm not the only person who does conversation on his own skills. Rather then throwing dices all the time and just saying you tried to persuade the King. You can't do that when your character is a better spokes man then you, but I've found that game are far more enjoyable when pepole play a role that resembles themselves then a sterotype of a class they can't quite understand.

 

[Vault Dweller]

You play a character and you don't godmod. Stats are an aid to it. It's nothing more then a rather complicated play after all. I hope that most people here still enjoy proper acting over being the ubershitzors.

You are about to pick a lock, steal something, sneak, climb, persuade, fix something, etc. Without stats you can't detemine whether or not you can perform it successfully. Example, you are facing a lock. There are no stats. How can you determine if you can pick it? Just 'cause you think that you are playing a thief who should be able to do that? Can he pick every lock or some? How can you determine which ones he can or can not pick?

Now In this particular play there will be a dozen characters. They are quite alike stats wise. Half of them has the Stat "CanClimbRockFace" 1 the other half has 0. They are all quite different, but their difference don't have to be noted for game mechanics, no other checks are going to be made in the play.

Well, now throw in some other skills that would come in handy when your characters is inside, and you'll end up with a character system that takes a burden of defining your character off your mind and handles it for you.

The stat system might be the most uncomplicated system ever, the play can still be great if the experience is great.

Depends on the expectations, doesn't it? If you want to play an RPG, but get an adventure game (BG) or an exploration game (MW), you might be disappointed. This particular site evaluates RPG qualities of games that claim to be RPGs, so we'll ignore the amazing non-RPG qualities of certain games and focus on the RPG-related features.

Funny thing that an adventure requires your skill, an rpg checks for character skill.

Very funny indeed. Perhaps, that's why these are two different genres now.

Rather then throwing dices all the time and just saying you tried to persuade the King. You can't do that when your character is a better spokes man then you, but I've found that game are far more enjoyable when pepole play a role that resembles themselves then a sterotype of a class they can't quite understand.

And that's exactly why you need stats - they give you an option of playing different characters in a believable manner, rather than carbon copies of the same character that matches you the most.

 

[Saint_Proverbius]

South Park, Season 8, Episode 1 - Good Times with Weapons is an excellent example of what RPGs are without stats.

"Bulrog has lots and lots of powers."

 

[Vault Dweller]

lol, that was too funny:

Cartman: Hold on you guys. I actually have another power. I can see into the future too, but better than Kyle. Let me try it.
Kyle: Goddamnit, Cartman! You can't keep making up new powers!
Stan: Yeah dude, that's like the fifth power you've come up with!
Cartman: I am Bulrog and I have lots and lots of powers.
Kyle: No asshole! From now on you only get to have ONE power! So what is it?!
Cartman: I have the power to have all the powers I want.

 

[Proweler]

Ever seen a play were somebody couldn't do something unimportant? It might be fun for once, but it's basically death time. There always has to be a reason why you can't do it. Loot, story arc, challenge, ect.
Asking the DM if you can open the door is pretty much enough, not because you need someway to decided whether you can open the door or not but because you might as well write fanfic if you like to RP alone.

I think a role-playing game is about the playing of the role. You play a character, the stats are just an aid and not a requirement. A good character system can be an incredible aid. I prefer quality over quantity. A simple smooth system that gives me what I need is prefer over a hulking complicated system.

Casting for type doesn't generate carbon copy's, just a thieve alone can come in thousands of variants. But perhaps the complicated system works if you want to play somebody you are unable to, but in my opinion that's just another tactical game of Rolling the Dice - which sadly most crpg's are.

Come to think of it, even an RPG require's player skill. Acting skills. Kinda like an adventure whit a non-twitch based control set.

South Park, Season 8, Episode 1 - Good Times with Weapons is an excellent example of what RPGs are without stats.

"Bulrog has lots and lots of powers."

 

[kris]

I think a role-playing game is about the playing of the role. You play a character, the stats are just an aid and not a requirement. A good character system can be an incredible aid. I prefer quality over quantity. A simple smooth system that gives me what I need is prefer over a hulking complicated system.

Come to think of it, even an RPG require's player skill. Acting skills. Kinda like an adventure whit a non-twitch based control set.

Playing the role is determing what the character is to do, acting on his limits, abilities and personality. With no constraints on that, either by numbers or by "he is a nice person" then you don't play the role as the character, then you just make things up as you please. Nice dream for the powergamer "I shoot and arrow and kill them all".

You talk about a PnP RPG and need for acting skills? No you don't need much of acting skills, but they sure help when it comes to everyones immersement. But the actig skills, general knowledge and imagination of the game master sure is important to make the gaming into a giving experience.

 

[Sol Invictus]

Some people really suck at role-playing. Ever see one of those role-playing blogs where people pretend to be characters from a movie, anime or TV series?

Example of good roleplaying as the character "Angel" on Angel: Yeah... I'm bored.

Example of bad roleplaying as the character "Angel" on Angel: SUGOI!!!!!!!!! ^_^

Was there any point to this post? No.

 

[Naked_Lunch]

Wow, that was quite possibly the shittiest post I've ever read on any forum.

 

[Nicolai]

... What?

 

[merry andrew]

Some people really suck at role-playing. Ever see one of those role-playing blogs where people pretend to be characters from a movie, anime or TV series?

Example of good roleplaying as the character "Angel" on Angel: Yeah... I'm bored.

Example of bad roleplaying as the character "Angel" on Angel: SUGOI!!!!!!!!! ^_^

Was there any point to this post? No.

ROFLOFOGUS

I agree, though. Some/most people suck at role-playing. Most RPGs aren't even about role-playing, they're about getting phat lewts and generally pwning. That's basically why MMOs suck as well. The designers create these detailed worlds that seem totally fitting for role-playing, but the most you usually get is someone playing as 'jerk who pwns you', or a 'n00b', or the best guild in the game 'buds4lyfe' who never speak in-character and are just there to 'kick back and have fun lvling'. Headsets only make things betterer.

I worked on a text-based adventure game for a few months at the beginning of this year, and half of the focus group participants (2 of 4 ) seemed heavily annoyed by the dialogue and descriptions and basically just banged away at the keyboard until most of the words were gone and then sat there looking lost. ZOMG where is the pwnage?

I'm hopeful, anyway.

 

[triCritical]

Well I disagree with Bethesda on this one. I do not think it was difficult at all to pick skills because there were very few for each type of character. I agree with St, that the minor skills were more of rounding out your character and just filling up the skill list. However, I don't really mind that the there are only 7 primary skills as I am that the skills went from 27 to 21.

With the exception of blocking I can't see any skill that should be removed. For that matter I think there should be more. I can understand the logic that skills could probably be moved into pugilism and fencing vs one for each weapon type, same for magic, but I think it kills replay value, which is ES's biggest strength. You kill radomization between games, a HUGE no no, and then you limit the difference in two characters and I think that is a step in the wrong direction.

As for balancing. Both Morrowind and Daggerfall were to easy. I don't understand how limiting skills makes it easier. Now a character will have two more important skills, and more breadth of talent within the individual skills.

 

[Sol Invictus]

I agree, though. Some/most people suck at role-playing. Most RPGs aren't even about role-playing, they're about getting phat lewts and generally pwning. That's basically why MMOs suck as well. The designers create these detailed worlds that seem totally fitting for role-playing, but the most you usually get is someone playing as 'jerk who pwns you', or a 'n00b', or the best guild in the game 'buds4lyfe' who never speak in-character and are just there to 'kick back and have fun lvling'. Headsets only make things betterer.

Yeah, that's how I play my MMOs with other people. There's no 'in-character' speak. I mean, really, how silly is that? I find it pretty difficult to role-play in an online RPG.

I can role-play in single player RPGs just fine (it's all a state of mind) provided that the dialogue and action choices exist, and PNP/Online RPGs of the PNP variety are fine, too. But roleplaying World of Warcraft or something just doesn't work. There's too much other stuff going on, and those 'hardcore roleplayers' can be total jerks when you don't speak in character. All in all, I just like to kick back and have fun lvling. I just can't seem to get immersed in the role-playing environment, unless it's a PNP session, or a text-based thing.

Of course, I've never tried an RP server, so who knows? There's too much 'noise' anywhere else.

I worked on a text-based adventure game for a few months at the beginning of this year, and half of the focus group participants (2 of 4 ) seemed heavily annoyed by the dialogue and descriptions and basically just banged away at the keyboard until most of the words were gone and then sat there looking lost. ZOMG where is the pwnage?

You need better writers.

As for Oblivion, I hope it's challenging. Morrowind was way too easy - it seemed imbalanced.

 

[merry andrew]

I'm thinking that the combat system will make it more challenging than Morrowind.

 

[Mech]

This thread is pretty hilarious so far. It felt good to see that, despite all the retarded flaming, people are actually capable of argueing a point without repeating it ad nauseum (usually) unlike those who bitch and moan on the TES forums. All they can do is bring up a point, and then when someone proves beyond a shadow of doubt how idiotic their post was, they just keep repeating what they said, over and over. Im actually quite positive they don't even know how to read, which makes me wonder how they can even write.

 

[GhanBuriGhan]

This thread is pretty hilarious so far. It felt good to see that, despite all the retarded flaming, people are actually capable of argueing a point without repeating it ad nauseum (usually) unlike those who bitch and moan on the TES forums. All they can do is bring up a point, and then when someone proves beyond a shadow of doubt how idiotic their post was, they just keep repeating what they said, over and over. Im actually quite positive they don't even know how to read, which makes me wonder how they can even write.

Hey, you fit right in here, mech!

 

[Tintin]

This thread is pretty hilarious so far. It felt good to see that, despite all the retarded flaming, people are actually capable of argueing a point without repeating it ad nauseum (usually) unlike those who bitch and moan on the TES forums. All they can do is bring up a point, and then when someone proves beyond a shadow of doubt how idiotic their post was, they just keep repeating what they said, over and over. Im actually quite positive they don't even know how to read, which makes me wonder how they can even write.

Hey, you fit right in here, mech!

Yeah.

RPG Codex: Where we hate Bethesda because the rest of the world hates us!

 

[triCritical]

I personally think the codex is just misunderstood. For me it was a way where I could discuss turnbase combat, meaningful dialogue options, and REAL role playing (not just token Bioware class dialogue options).

The interesting thing is that people have sort of have the wrong impression about the codex. We typically keep our opinions to ourselves on these boards, instead of ranting and raving all over the place. There are a few exceptions, but for the most part this is the case.

 

[Claw]

Well, The Codex is a vocal minority, and the majority hates those.

 

[StraitLacedDeviant]

I know,the codex is unreasonable, obnoxious, offensive and lots of other neato stuff, but only within the codex. Dickheads from other sites like to cut a swathe of verbal diahorrea across the entire net.

 

[Saint_Proverbius]

Well, I'm not even sure Proweler has even thought too much about his argument that RPGs shouldn't have stats. It really is a dumb thing to say when you think about it. He shrugs it off as being "something to compare players with monsters", which is a radically oversimplified view of stats.

While stats do offer a comparason with players and monsters, stats also offer a comparason between EVERY DAMNED THING IN THE WORLD when you think about it. You come across a tricky lock, there's a stat comparason. A tree falls on you, stat comparason. You try to learn a new language, stat comparason. Even when trying to communicate with NPCs, there are stat comparasons in many games.

 

[LlamaGod]

Stats are a big part of roleplaying. It allows you to design the specific kind of character you want to play, his abilities and disabilities and stuff. Then the game world reacts to his design and you experience situations through his capabilities.

If a game doesnt have either part it ends up being retarded 'IM PRETENDING IM SCARED OF HEIGHTS!!!!!!1111111111' like Morrowind or something.

 

[triCritical]

Stats are the very essense of RPG's. Its what seperates us from the Larp'ers. I think whether a player does it intentionally or not, to accurately roleplay stats are required. Even in a squad based game, stats is what seperates the scout from machine gunner and the sorcerer from the barbarian. If if you were to make up your own RPG system, to roleplay you would have to artificially put restraints on the characters ability, in essense creating something that looks, acts and feels like a stat.

 

[Tintin]

I never noticed before, there are so many Oblivion threads spread across this site. Hit "view new posts" and 20% are Oblivion-related.

 

[Saint_Proverbius]

I never noticed before, there are so many Oblivion threads spread across this site. Hit "view new posts" and 20% are Oblivion-related.

Probably because, like it or not, the only big thing that's up coming is Oblivion. That and TES fans like to come here and tell us how stupid we are.