Apparently a standalone Dota is in beta

[Hoaxmetal]

His ult usually tears enemy down enough to make it run for his life and then whirlpool ends the job, enjoyable when it works. Not bad against melee heroes too, unlike some other AGI.

 

[kingcomrade]

man, im getting tired of having to play carries
I have to pick them because in games like I just played with damnedreg the rest of the team is pudge bloodseeker sven and they don't know what they are doing, so I have to go 21-5 with death prophet to win the game.
i'm glad there are codex people to play with who know what they are doing, though, it makes the game a lot more fun

 

[Inziladun]

Swiftblade (Juggernaut) is one of the two heroes I really starting doing well at DotA with (the other is Pestilence/Slardar). He's a very good hero. Just like most good AGI heroes, he uses spells early on then once he has his items he uses his attack in stead. He can gank really well.

Only gripe with him is that you can only focus fire with his special ability if there's no creeps around the hero, otherwise it's a waste. Kinda annoying when you see your guy accidently start using his special on creeps.

 

[Zuluf]

First of all, Death Prophet is not a carry.

Second of all, Swiftblade (Yurnero) is not an efficient hero unless the other team is a pug or very disorganised. He fares quite well as a ganker and stealer mostly because a lot of people can't estimate damage values and do proper risk assessment when taking up a lane.

But if you look at DotA pro replays - and I highly recommend TeG's matchups for this - you won't see Yurnero getting picked. Basically he's very fun to play and a pretty neat fragfactory but I wouldn't take him in a clanwar roster under any circumstances, and I doubt there are any real clans out there who would.

Thing is - he doesn't get gargantuan amounts of DPS, nuke potential or disabling end-game and his ulti is negligible in stacked groups. He's not really powerful in lane control (unlike more conventional control and gank heroes like Valk (Mirana), Night Hound (Rikimaru - Stealth Assassin) or Arachna (Traxex Lite). He doesn't even become a finisher unless someone feeds him and that won't happen in anything else than pick-up games.


kc ranted: "By the way, whoever recommended to me mask of madness, that was a bad idea. I got whispering helm, but seriously the -80% attack speed from her orb is just too good to replace so I sold it. That thing shut antimage down. Lothar's is also kind of a crappy choice. Everyone gets it for the easy escape but you shouldn't ever need it and it's super expensive for what it does and doesn't help in teamfights.

Since I never play Drow (I do play Viper sometimes) I was at a bit of a loss as to what to get. They didn't have nukers so I didn't go shaman's headdress. I just went 3Wraith+Vanguard+STR Treads+Crit+building butterfly at the end of the game. It's weird, in DotA I have no problem coming up with builds on the fly, but in this game I'm always like "uhhhh....let's see, what is there"

I recommended mask of madness because it's the best attack modifier you can get if you turn her into a carry. It actually overlaps with webshot so you can apply both the slow and drain life at the same time. And you got the wrong item: it's Elder Parasite, not Whispering Helm, that's the MoM analogue in Hon. As you might have noticed she doesn't have a fat health pool or any healing possibilities, but at 1.6k (around the time you actually become an asset to the team) you can 1v1 any other carry with drain life and you will win because of your innate slow and lifesteal.

And Assassin Shroud / Lothar is the most obvious escape choice. Unless they have detectors (Tree, Bloodseeker, Scout, etc.) Lothar will get you out of dozens of sticky situations. Trust me, played Arachna for over 25 matches and tried all kinds of stupid builds people posted on the forums, Lothar made me carry the game about half the time.

You don't need Vanguard because in most HoN setups you will swallow more than 1.6k magic damage, and that is literally unavoidable. If there are DoTs on you, sure you can dispel them with the carapace but most fights you will get into without a backing team include stuns (which you can't disable) and nukes (which you won't have time to prepare for). That's where Lothar comes in.

The game is less flexible than it seems unfortunately I'm a bit annoyed with experimenting different builds and item setups for hours before I actually get to a very rigid conclusion.

 

[kingcomrade]

First of all, Death Prophet is not a carry.

Wrong

Second of all, Swiftblade (Yurnero) is not an efficient hero unless the other team is a pug or very disorganised.

Congratulations, you've discovered we all play pubs.

And you got the wrong item: it's Elder Parasite, not Whispering Helm

No, I knew what I was buying.

 

[kingcomrade]

Damn Reg and I just got into the most unbelieveable situation. We play -rd, someone on our team first picks riki. We end up with a hilarious lineup of all melee heroes except Reg who picked Pollywog (none of the others except me have any worthwhile stuns) against Lina, Thunderbringer, Death Prophet, Valkyrie, and I forget the other. I try to organize our lanes a bit so we have a chance, the brown player gets extremely butthurt (NO I DONT WANNA LANE WITH RIKI IT WILL RUIN MY GAME as if having a lane dominated riki won't ruin the game). So, after being instadominated in the lanes, I sit in the fountain until we can concede. However, brown, being butthurt, decides to stay in the game and vote no so that we cannot concede. So 15 minutes of sitting in the fountain because if you leave it's permanently tracked and hosts will kick people with leaves. Amazing.

 

[Zuluf]

Why would you get Helm of the Dominator instead of MoM on a frenzy-hungry ranged DPSer?

 

[kingcomrade]

I can't imagine why I wouldn't get MoM on a squishy hero with no HP.

 

[Zuluf]

1. For the frenzy effect.
2. Because it keeps you up when fighting a similar hero who doesn't have the benefit of lifesteal but deals greater damage than you. Happens pretty often, especially in those pugs you're so fond of.

 

[kingcomrade]

Now they're the pugs I'm so fond of. Tell me Zuluf which games do you play that are not 'pugs'

Anyways, what I don't get about this game is, on DotA I'm a very good last hitter but a poor denier, in this game I'm a very good denier but a poor last hitter. Don't get it.

 

[kingcomrade]

Oh, man. Madman is still imba as fuck, but I managed to help keep him down even though he was totally out-runewhoring me. Madman is impossible to beat to the runes, he can scout both before I've even gotten to the first one. I was playing Hellbringer who seems really strong with his heal spell.

I still have trouble seeing what the fuck is going on since there's so much eye candy going on.

 

[Hoaxmetal]

Yep, clusterfuck is a problem. Gotta love misclicking special attacks on creeps not enemy hero.

 

[Avu]

Ever seen a pudge that hooks 3 times in a game and all 3 times when there are a tons of creeps right in front of him? Every fucking single time? And then he dies a bunch of times to bloodseeker and quits. GG game after that. Also had a riki that gets on 10 life points and then goes to hit a half life enigma one more time for old times sake and dies. Good thing there is a banlist.

 

[kingcomrade]

I saw a Pharoah ragequit because his ult hits creeps. OMG THIS ISNT HOW IT WAS IN DOTA. funny

They really need to fix the assists not giving gold like in DotA. I can participate in a bunch of teamfights as Hellbourne, a supporter, get something like 20+ assists, and have no gold. It's kind of retarded.

 

[DefJam101]

KC would you say the gameplay in DOTA is similar to Savage (minus the twitch combat) or not at all?

I've always been a big fan of Savage, but I've been having trouble finding any S2 servers with a decent ping lately and this looks like a decent alternative.

 

[Padre]

Ever seen a pudge that hooks 3 times in a game and all 3 times when there are a tons of creeps right in front of him? Every fucking single time? And then he dies a bunch of times to bloodseeker and quits. GG game after that. Also had a riki that gets on 10 life points and then goes to hit a half life enigma one more time for old times sake and dies. Good thing there is a banlist.

game number one today :
our Valk has 0-13 ratio after 20 minutes, doesn't respond to any commands, pleads, whatever. She just goes to the lane, kill creeps till someone comes and pwn her.

game number two :
Had Swiftblade, Nighthound and madman on the team. For some weird reason Madman starts without any items. When I ask why, he says he's going for a wingbow. We got raped in 12 minutes cause apparently out Swiftblade thought it would be good idea to use his ulti and all his mana on creeps when there is no hero around.

game number three :
Another glorious Valk player. 20 minutes into the game, she is still lvl 4. When ganked, she doesn't use any skills, she just stands there and autoattacks enemies. Our slither with a death wish would go into the middle of the fight 'to cast the ulti, it will kill them I tell ya!!!' and when he got stunned and disabled third time, he ragequited.

game number four :
Our tempest says that he will be jungling. After dying 3 times to neutrals he says he lags and quits.

Fuck, people are stupid.

 

[Hoaxmetal]

Chronos and Wildsoul are fun, Chronos as great initiator/finisher and Wildsoul is basically druid, and I love playing droods.

 

[Padre]

Chronos - initiatior? Chronos - fucken killstealer.End of story

 

[Hoaxmetal]

What happens in time bubble stays in time bubble

 

[kingcomrade]

KC would you say the gameplay in DOTA is similar to Savage (minus the twitch combat) or not at all?

Er...not at all. Unless Savage is nothing like what I remember. I dunno what would give you that impression. DotA is based on the War3 engine so, I mean, it's a RTS game where you control one unit, or maybe combined with a bit of RPG. Actually you can think of it as the team deathmatch version of an real time top down RPG, hehe. I'm downloading Savage 2 right now, actually.

 

[Hoaxmetal]

Savage2 is way different.

 

[DefJam101]

I mean, it's a RTS game where you control one unit, or maybe combined with a bit of RPG.

That's basically what Savage is except the combat has twitch-based elements.

I think Texas has a good Savage 2 server so you might be able to find some decent pings. Anything above 60 is just unplayable (you can't melee and the game is about 80% melee).

 

[kingcomrade]

That's basically what Savage is except the combat has twitch-based elements.

No, it's more like 1 guy builds buildings and researches tech and casts global spells while everyone else spams run and left mouse button.

They play absolutely nothing alike. dota/hon are controlled like strategy games. i.e you select a unit and right click on an enemy to order him to attack.

 

[kingcomrade]

I'm watching the Penn and Teller show on violent video games and I said to a friend that since video games train me in how to kill I will definitely be taking black king bar to my school shooting and he said "Authorites say they tried to sheep stick him but he was immune to spell effects" lol
he's pretty funny

also it seems the people who oppose jack thompson are kind of BS too, listen to this PhD from Hopkins or something, she said something like:
when we asked kids what they learned from GTA4 they said they learned about the consequences of your actions, how once you get into a gang it's really hard to get out of

 

[Multi-headed Cow]

CHOICES AND CONSEQUENCES