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Arcanum and Morrowind are still unsurpassed

luj1

You're all shills
Vatnik
Joined
Jan 2, 2016
Messages
13,358
Location
Eastern block
What's a good build / playstyle for enjoying the game as a first time player?

Tech gunslinger is the way to play Arcanum. Put 1 pt in Herbalism for the salves, 1 pt in Chemistry for bullets, 1 pt in Explosives for Molotovs. These are "one point wonders". Put 4 pts in Electricity for Charged Rings if you want, because the guy who makes them can't be recruited soon. Put the rest in Gunsmithy. Alternatively put more pts (leftovers?) in Explosives. Some of these grenades have excellent CC/damage and can be sold for a nice amount.

Train your skills, get Dog.

It will be tough, especially the mines, but rewarding. Magic is easy.

I have seen a lot of people say the combat is pretty bad.

Way blown out of proportion. Enemies are bloaty and there is 0 encounter design, but the combat is fine. I enjoyed it. It just isn't very complex, it's pretty straightforward.
 

JDR13

Arcane
Joined
Nov 2, 2006
Messages
3,933
Location
The Swamp
Nah, it's just one of many reasons I'm not a big fan of BG1. I do love BG2 quite a lot though, a massive improvement upon the first game in pretty much every aspect.

BG2 was an improvement is some aspects not all. It's a little more linear than BG1, and not everyone is a fan of high-level 2nd Edition. The first game also had a better selection of joinable NPCs.
 
Joined
Dec 17, 2013
Messages
5,168
Some reasons why BG1 was a lot better than BG2 (for the inclined monocle wearer):

- open world structure as opposed to the sequel's hub based linear structure
- down to earth world and atmosphere that actually felt like a real medieval fantasy region, as opposed to the sequel's "trying too hard" uber-epic world where you couldn't walk two steps without stubbing your toe on a dragon, demi-lich, or a spaceship from another astral plane
- more fun and faster resolving combat, with reasonable low-level abilities and spells, compared to BG2's endless and super slow mage duels
- far better story: the mystery of the iron shortage and Gorion's murder slowly coalescing into the political scheming of the Iron Throne and finally into your divine sibling's plots, against some whiny emo elf moaning for hours about his lost wife
- no romances
- significantly better loot tables due to scarcisty: finding a magic item in BG1 was a treat and an event, it took forever to save up for the non-magic suit of plate, meanwhile in BG2, with its annoying epicness, you were throwing away +3 items in the starting tutorial dungeon left and right

BG1 was a chance for Bioware to become a special studio, if they only followed what it started. Instead they went into a lot of different directions with BG2, almost all of them being harbingers of the studio's eventual decline: companion romances, hub based structure, and way too much epic bullshit.
 

Beans00

Augur
Joined
Aug 27, 2008
Messages
985
Some reasons why BG1 was a lot better than BG2 (for the inclined monocle wearer):

- open world structure as opposed to the sequel's hub based linear structure
- down to earth world and atmosphere that actually felt like a real medieval fantasy region, as opposed to the sequel's "trying too hard" uber-epic world where you couldn't walk two steps without stubbing your toe on a dragon, demi-lich, or a spaceship from another astral plane
- more fun and faster resolving combat, with reasonable low-level abilities and spells, compared to BG2's endless and super slow mage duels
- far better story: the mystery of the iron shortage and Gorion's murder slowly coalescing into the political scheming of the Iron Throne and finally into your divine sibling's plots, against some whiny emo elf moaning for hours about his lost wife
- no romances
- significantly better loot tables due to scarcisty: finding a magic item in BG1 was a treat and an event, it took forever to save up for the non-magic suit of plate, meanwhile in BG2, with its annoying epicness, you were throwing away +3 items in the starting tutorial dungeon left and right

BG1 was a chance for Bioware to become a special studio, if they only followed what it started. Instead they went into a lot of different directions with BG2, almost all of them being harbingers of the studio's eventual decline: companion romances, hub based structure, and way too much epic bullshit.


I agree with most of this. That being said I still felt bg1 had too much monotony and empty space.
BG2 on the other hand, after chapter 3 or 4(I don't remember) the game falls off a complete cliff once you go to the pirate island and mage prison, then underdark. From then on the game is pure aids. At least in my opinion.
 

deuxhero

Arcane
Joined
Jul 30, 2007
Messages
11,401
Location
Flowery Land
I think Morrowind's itemization is actually underated. Yes, it's utterly trivial to break the economy (even a modest merchant skill is enough to sell things for more than they've been purchased for, alchemy generates valuable items from common bread, and even pearl hunting gives loads of money), but it did some things very well. Gear mainly falls into three tiers: poor (iron, netch leather), normal (steel, chitin, bonemold) and exceptional (Ebony/Daedric, glass). You can obtain "normal" gear very quickly even with no outside knowledge (first merchant has it and the first dungeon gives more than enough stuff to buy it with), so poor equipment is mainly reserved for arming NPCs so they have gear to use, but it's generally too heavy to loot and sell forcing the player to focus on looting small valuables (premium alcohol, gems, potions, magic scrolls). This means there is no loot treadmill and instead all the exceptional gear you find is, truly, exceptional (unless its so late in the game that it's redundant). Instead, gold is used to buy training to improve your skills, which have a huge impact on your performance.

I would still say though that Morrowind is too generous with expectional gear, including daedric weapons. For example, Ibad-Dad is almost impossible to miss when if you approach the Urshilaku camp from the South-West (which is what I expect most people to do). If you got the Ebony Armor from the Bosmer nearby, now you're pretty much all set, even though the main quest is pretty much just begun. Also, I walked directly into the dungeon that contains Chrysamere just by following directions of a guild quest (forgot which one).

Deadric Weapons being everywhere are a symptom of Morrowind's level scaling for monsters and some limited loot. They aren't supposed to show up till level 16, but in Morrowind that's really easy to reach. It would make sense in Daggerfall's leveling, where the max the max level was 32 if you put in major effort and more practically you'd struggle to reach 20 (pulled up the save from my latest playthrough where I did most of the main quest and I'm level 12), but in Morrowind while you're supposed to take a long time to reach 20 (where level up messages stop), it's trivial to start ramming level ups once you understand the mechanics and acquire gold to train your minor skills.
 

jackofshadows

Magister
Joined
Oct 21, 2019
Messages
4,540
Tech gunslinger is the way to play Arcanum. Put 1 pt in Herbalism for the salves, 1 pt in Chemistry for bullets, 1 pt in Explosives for Molotovs. These are "one point wonders". Put 4 pts in Electricity for Charged Rings if you want, because the guy who makes them can't be recruited soon. Put the rest in Gunsmithy. Alternatively put more pts (leftovers?) in Explosives. Some of these grenades have excellent CC/damage and can be sold for a nice amount.

Train your skills, get Dog.
Have a mercy on a potential new player, you heartless bastard. Gunslinger needs perception/firearms and dexterity first and foremost, not worthless intellect. To not meta much, better just invest in gunsmithy 2 points in order to make fine revolver right away but no more. For healing just use Virgil, for crafting bullets tech manual and molotovs are meh and not worth the hassle. And do not take the dog, it's a meme companion, breaking the game, basically.
 

Yrvyne

Novice
Joined
Jul 8, 2017
Messages
15
Location
Malta, Europe
Tech gunslinger is the way to play Arcanum. Put 1 pt in Herbalism for the salves, 1 pt in Chemistry for bullets, 1 pt in Explosives for Molotovs. These are "one point wonders". Put 4 pts in Electricity for Charged Rings if you want, because the guy who makes them can't be recruited soon. Put the rest in Gunsmithy. Alternatively put more pts (leftovers?) in Explosives. Some of these grenades have excellent CC/damage and can be sold for a nice amount.

Train your skills, get Dog.
Have a mercy on a potential new player, you heartless bastard. Gunslinger needs perception/firearms and dexterity first and foremost, not worthless intellect. To not meta much, better just invest in gunsmithy 2 points in order to make fine revolver right away but no more. For healing just use Virgil, for crafting bullets tech manual and molotovs are meh and not worth the hassle. And do not take the dog, it's a meme companion, breaking the game, basically.

Initially, I would invest points in PE until 9 pts, then two slots in Firearms. Proceed to cave in Shrouded Hills for some loot consisting of a cheap gun and some ammo. Level up to level 2 and insert a point in Charisma to recruit Sogg Mead Mug at the next town's inn. From then on, focus on some points in gunsmithy, PE, Firearms, DE, Throw, and explosives.
 
Last edited:

Sykar

Arcane
Joined
Dec 2, 2014
Messages
11,297
Location
Turn right after Alpha Centauri
Some reasons why BG1 was a lot better than BG2 (for the inclined monocle wearer):

- open world structure as opposed to the sequel's hub based linear structure
- down to earth world and atmosphere that actually felt like a real medieval fantasy region, as opposed to the sequel's "trying too hard" uber-epic world where you couldn't walk two steps without stubbing your toe on a dragon, demi-lich, or a spaceship from another astral plane
- more fun and faster resolving combat, with reasonable low-level abilities and spells, compared to BG2's endless and super slow mage duels
- far better story: the mystery of the iron shortage and Gorion's murder slowly coalescing into the political scheming of the Iron Throne and finally into your divine sibling's plots, against some whiny emo elf moaning for hours about his lost wife
- no romances
- significantly better loot tables due to scarcisty: finding a magic item in BG1 was a treat and an event, it took forever to save up for the non-magic suit of plate, meanwhile in BG2, with its annoying epicness, you were throwing away +3 items in the starting tutorial dungeon left and right

BG1 was a chance for Bioware to become a special studio, if they only followed what it started. Instead they went into a lot of different directions with BG2, almost all of them being harbingers of the studio's eventual decline: companion romances, hub based structure, and way too much epic bullshit.

Complete and utter horse shit:
1.)Open World vs Hub is a matter of preference and is in no way an objective way to measure of the quality of the game. In BG 1s case, the open world ness means very little considering that a large chunk of those "open world" maps are mostly empty with 2-3 boring trash encounter and little to no loot. The main quest is also unabashadly linear and has to be solved in exactly the same steps even if you might find something out by accident or own deductions.
2.) Completely subjective and again not an objective measure of the quality of the game. BG 1 is a very bog standard low level fantasy D&D adventure of which there are literally dozens around, more if you count in PnP. Low level vs high level is entirely up to taste. That does not make BG 1 a superior "monocled" game, far from it. As to stubbing your toe to encounter "uber epic" enounters, that is for the most part limited to ToB which most fans agree is the weaker part of SoA but it is also fairly short by comparison. Also what are you going to do to challenge a high level party at that point? Most normal enemies are trivial at that point.
3.) What are you talking about? Mages without SCS are mostly cake walk unless you are too stupid to either let your party arcane casters have 2-3 Breaches memorized, maybe a Secret Word to take down Spell Trap or fail to use AoE which is basically not blocked by anything outside of Spell Immunity which is rare without SCS. The only mages that give serious trouble are super high level mages like Lavok, Liches and Kangaxx as it should be for such legendary fiends.
4.) Nonsense. The story of BG 1 is a bog standard conspiracy with the only minor twist being that the end villian does that to ascend to godhood and that is not even that uncommon either that a villain wants to ascend to godhood. By comparison Irenicus is much more interesting. At least he gets fleshed out a little, what to you get to know about Sarevok in BG 1 apart him being the PC's half brother? Nothing of substance Sarevok is a very one dimenional primitive villain with the barest minimum of basic characterization behind him.
Also Irenicus is "emo for hours"? Have you actually played the game? For most of the game he outsmarts and outmuscles everyone including THE massive secretive mage society which controls everything magical in the kingdom of Amn and who no one can go against yet he not only destroys them but completely takes them over including turning the previous leader into a gibbering imbecile through experimentation. Hell who thought he was an elf upon first impression? He most certainly did not look the part. Sarevok is a joke compared to Irenicus, if not for story reasons, Irenicus might as well have caught Sarevok and submit him to the same experiments he did upon the PC and Imoen and there would have been nothing that insiginfiacnt speck of dust called Sarevok could have done to prevent Irenicus using him like a lab rat. Also yet again no actual objective argument was made, but who cares about facts when your feelings matter more.
5.) The romances are completely skippable and have little impact on the actual game. They are also tiny in term of content, probably not even 0.5% of all of SoA even less if you include ToB. Literally a non-argument.
6.) The loot is banal shit boring in BG 1. The best weapon you can find is a +2 Longsword which deals extra cold damage, wohoo! Staff of the Magi alone shits on every single piece of loot in BG 1.
 
Last edited:

jackofshadows

Magister
Joined
Oct 21, 2019
Messages
4,540
recruit Sodd Mead Mug
Why everyone and their granny tend to recruit as many companions as possible? It's not a fucking party-based game, you CANNOT CONTROL them (almost). Then people realize that companions steal their precious XP and starting to search a mod to "fix" it... How about not to use companions? There. Problem SOLVED. You're all need to go into UnderRail therapy before even touching Arcanum.
 

Sykar

Arcane
Joined
Dec 2, 2014
Messages
11,297
Location
Turn right after Alpha Centauri
recruit Sodd Mead Mug
Why everyone and their granny tend to recruit as many companions as possible? It's not a fucking party-based game, you CANNOT CONTROL them (almost). Then people realize that companions steal their precious XP and starting to search a mod to "fix" it... How about not to use companions? There. Problem SOLVED. You're all need to go into UnderRail therapy before even touching Arcanum.

I managed to reach level 50 on my persuasion mage despite having 4-5 cpmpanions for most of the game.
 

Yrvyne

Novice
Joined
Jul 8, 2017
Messages
15
Location
Malta, Europe
recruit Sodd Mead Mug
Why everyone and their granny tend to recruit as many companions as possible? It's not a fucking party-based game, you CANNOT CONTROL them (almost). Then people realize that companions steal their precious XP and starting to search a mod to "fix" it... How about not to use companions? There. Problem SOLVED. You're all need to go into UnderRail therapy before even touching Arcanum.

It's simply a style of playing this game.

No one is forcing anyone to recruit companions.

But specifically for this game, especially for newcomers, I would suggest recruiting to make the playing experience simpler.

Also, for this game, certain companions spice the dialogues especially those that are voiced.
 
Joined
Dec 17, 2013
Messages
5,168
Some reasons why BG1 was a lot better than BG2 (for the inclined monocle wearer):

- open world structure as opposed to the sequel's hub based linear structure
- down to earth world and atmosphere that actually felt like a real medieval fantasy region, as opposed to the sequel's "trying too hard" uber-epic world where you couldn't walk two steps without stubbing your toe on a dragon, demi-lich, or a spaceship from another astral plane
- more fun and faster resolving combat, with reasonable low-level abilities and spells, compared to BG2's endless and super slow mage duels
- far better story: the mystery of the iron shortage and Gorion's murder slowly coalescing into the political scheming of the Iron Throne and finally into your divine sibling's plots, against some whiny emo elf moaning for hours about his lost wife
- no romances
- significantly better loot tables due to scarcisty: finding a magic item in BG1 was a treat and an event, it took forever to save up for the non-magic suit of plate, meanwhile in BG2, with its annoying epicness, you were throwing away +3 items in the starting tutorial dungeon left and right

BG1 was a chance for Bioware to become a special studio, if they only followed what it started. Instead they went into a lot of different directions with BG2, almost all of them being harbingers of the studio's eventual decline: companion romances, hub based structure, and way too much epic bullshit.

Complete and utter horse shit:
1.)Open World vs Hub is a matter of preference and is in no way an objective way to measure of the quality of the game. In BG 1s case, the open world ness means very little considering that a large chunk of those "open world" maps are mostly empty with 2-3 boring trash encounter and little to no loot. The main quest is also unabashadly linear and has to be solved in exactly the same steps even if you might find something out by accident or own deductions.
2.) Completely subjective and again not an objective measure of the quality of the game. BG 1 is a very bog standard low level fantasy D&D adventure of which there are literally dozens around, more if you count in PnP. Low level vs high level is entirely up to taste. That does not make BG 1 a superior "monocled" game, far from it. As to stubbing your toe to encounter "uber epic" enounters, that is for the most part limited to ToB which most fans agree is the weaker part of SoA but it is also fairly short by comparison. Also what are you going to do to challenge a high level party at that point? Most normal enemies are trivial at that point.
3.) What are you talking about? Mages without SCS are mostly cake walk unless you are too stupid to either let your party arcane casters have 2-3 Breaches memorized, maybe a Secret Word to take down Spell Trap or fail to use AoE which is basically not blocked by anything outside of Spell Immunity which is rare without SCS. The only mages that give serious trouble are super high level mages like Lavok, Liches and Kangaxx as it should be for such legendary fiends.
4.) Nonsense. The story of BG 1 is a bog standard conspiracy with the only minor twist being that the end villian does that to ascend to godhood and that is not even that uncommon either that a villain wants to ascend to godhood. By comparison Irenicus is much more interesting. At least he gets fleshed out a little, what to you get to know about Sarevok in BG 1 apart him being the PC's half brother? Nothing of substance Sarevok is a very one dimenional primitive villain with the barest minimum of basic characterization behind him.
Also Irenicus is "emo for hours"? Have you actually played the game? For most of the game he outsmarts and outmuscles everyone including THE massive secretive mage society which controls everything magical in the kingdom of Amn and who no one can go against yet he not only destroys them but completely takes them over including turning the previous leader into a gibbering imbecile through experimentation. Hell who thought he was an elf upon first impression? He most certainly did not look the part. Sarevok is a joke compared to Irenicus, if not for story reasons, Irenicus might as well have caught Sarevok and submit him to the same experiments he did upon the PC and Imoen and there would have been nothing that insiginfiacnt speck of dust called Sarevok could have done to prevent Irenicus using him like a lab rat. Also yet again no actual objective argument was made, but who cares about facts when your feelings matter more.
5.) The romances are completely skippable and have little impact on the actual game. They are also tiny in term of content, probably not even 0.5% of all of SoA even less if you include ToB. Literally a non-argument.
6.) The loot is banal shit boring in BG 1. The best weapon you can find is a +2 Longsword which deals extra cold damage, wohoo! Staff of the Magi alone shits on every single piece of loot in BG 1.

1. Wrong. Open world (which is organic and natural) is objectively better than hub based (which is artificial and forced).
2. Wrong again. Putting too much of anything into a recipe ruins it. Too much epic crap marginalizes everything and quickly becomes juvenile.
3. Wrong once more. I am starting to detect a pattern. The issue is not the difficulty, difficulty-wise BG1 and BG2 are roughly equal, enemies are tougher in BG2, but you also have a lot more powerful tools. It's the tedium. Constant mage fights where you have to undo their protections, then hurt them, then rest up, etc slow the game down way too much. BG1 combat has a nicer flow.
4. Unraveling a scintillating mystery of what's going on > dull characterization of a whiny elf in a plot that's 100% obvious from the start.
5. And yet they foretell the future decline.
6. Again you are missing the point. After one becomes older than 10, contrast becomes important. Being drowned in epic loot is not fun, finding rare epic loot is.
 

Sykar

Arcane
Joined
Dec 2, 2014
Messages
11,297
Location
Turn right after Alpha Centauri
Some reasons why BG1 was a lot better than BG2 (for the inclined monocle wearer):

- open world structure as opposed to the sequel's hub based linear structure
- down to earth world and atmosphere that actually felt like a real medieval fantasy region, as opposed to the sequel's "trying too hard" uber-epic world where you couldn't walk two steps without stubbing your toe on a dragon, demi-lich, or a spaceship from another astral plane
- more fun and faster resolving combat, with reasonable low-level abilities and spells, compared to BG2's endless and super slow mage duels
- far better story: the mystery of the iron shortage and Gorion's murder slowly coalescing into the political scheming of the Iron Throne and finally into your divine sibling's plots, against some whiny emo elf moaning for hours about his lost wife
- no romances
- significantly better loot tables due to scarcisty: finding a magic item in BG1 was a treat and an event, it took forever to save up for the non-magic suit of plate, meanwhile in BG2, with its annoying epicness, you were throwing away +3 items in the starting tutorial dungeon left and right

BG1 was a chance for Bioware to become a special studio, if they only followed what it started. Instead they went into a lot of different directions with BG2, almost all of them being harbingers of the studio's eventual decline: companion romances, hub based structure, and way too much epic bullshit.

Complete and utter horse shit:
1.)Open World vs Hub is a matter of preference and is in no way an objective way to measure of the quality of the game. In BG 1s case, the open world ness means very little considering that a large chunk of those "open world" maps are mostly empty with 2-3 boring trash encounter and little to no loot. The main quest is also unabashadly linear and has to be solved in exactly the same steps even if you might find something out by accident or own deductions.
2.) Completely subjective and again not an objective measure of the quality of the game. BG 1 is a very bog standard low level fantasy D&D adventure of which there are literally dozens around, more if you count in PnP. Low level vs high level is entirely up to taste. That does not make BG 1 a superior "monocled" game, far from it. As to stubbing your toe to encounter "uber epic" enounters, that is for the most part limited to ToB which most fans agree is the weaker part of SoA but it is also fairly short by comparison. Also what are you going to do to challenge a high level party at that point? Most normal enemies are trivial at that point.
3.) What are you talking about? Mages without SCS are mostly cake walk unless you are too stupid to either let your party arcane casters have 2-3 Breaches memorized, maybe a Secret Word to take down Spell Trap or fail to use AoE which is basically not blocked by anything outside of Spell Immunity which is rare without SCS. The only mages that give serious trouble are super high level mages like Lavok, Liches and Kangaxx as it should be for such legendary fiends.
4.) Nonsense. The story of BG 1 is a bog standard conspiracy with the only minor twist being that the end villian does that to ascend to godhood and that is not even that uncommon either that a villain wants to ascend to godhood. By comparison Irenicus is much more interesting. At least he gets fleshed out a little, what to you get to know about Sarevok in BG 1 apart him being the PC's half brother? Nothing of substance Sarevok is a very one dimenional primitive villain with the barest minimum of basic characterization behind him.
Also Irenicus is "emo for hours"? Have you actually played the game? For most of the game he outsmarts and outmuscles everyone including THE massive secretive mage society which controls everything magical in the kingdom of Amn and who no one can go against yet he not only destroys them but completely takes them over including turning the previous leader into a gibbering imbecile through experimentation. Hell who thought he was an elf upon first impression? He most certainly did not look the part. Sarevok is a joke compared to Irenicus, if not for story reasons, Irenicus might as well have caught Sarevok and submit him to the same experiments he did upon the PC and Imoen and there would have been nothing that insiginfiacnt speck of dust called Sarevok could have done to prevent Irenicus using him like a lab rat. Also yet again no actual objective argument was made, but who cares about facts when your feelings matter more.
5.) The romances are completely skippable and have little impact on the actual game. They are also tiny in term of content, probably not even 0.5% of all of SoA even less if you include ToB. Literally a non-argument.
6.) The loot is banal shit boring in BG 1. The best weapon you can find is a +2 Longsword which deals extra cold damage, wohoo! Staff of the Magi alone shits on every single piece of loot in BG 1.

1. Wrong. Open world (which is organic and natural) is objectively better than hub based (which is artificial and forced).
2. Wrong again. Putting too much of anything into a recipe ruins it. Too much epic crap marginalizes everything and quickly becomes juvenile.
3. Wrong once more. I am starting to detect a pattern. The issue is not the difficulty, difficulty-wise BG1 and BG2 are roughly equal, enemies are tougher in BG2, but you also have a lot more powerful tools. It's the tedium. Constant mage fights where you have to undo their protections, then hurt them, then rest up, etc slow the game down way too much. BG1 combat has a nicer flow.
4. Unraveling a scintillating mystery of what's going on > dull characterization of a whiny elf in a plot that's 100% obvious from the start.
5. And yet they foretell the future decline.
6. Again you are missing the point. After one becomes older than 10, contrast becomes important. Being drowned in epic loot is not fun, finding rare epic loot is.

What an insufferable retarded cretin you are, as bad as Lildurpa:
1.) Bullshit. Nothing about BG 1s "open world" is organic or natural nor is an open world in general "objectively" better but please pull more mental diarrhea out of your filthy rear, that is all you are good for. Back to BG 1, the "open world" are essentially nothing but a couple of set pieces you can visit in any order just like the areas outside of Athkatla. Again the main story is completely and utterly linear unlike BG 2 where at least in act 2 you can do anything you like in any order and it only becomes linear after act 2.
2.) Everything RPG related IS juvenile. To pretend otherwise only exposes what a wannabe elitist dimwit you are.
3.) Nothing wrong here you are just an brain dead retard as we have already seen in the Kingmaker thread. BG 2 SoA has by an large the far more powerful bosses some of which are easily 10+ levels above you depending on how early you meet them they are almsot unbeatable unless you know EXACTLY what you are doing but again those bosses are damn rare and most of them are optional and are not in the way of the main quest like the dragons and liches. The rest? Unless you are a brain dead retard, like you, they are not particuary difficult.
4.) Entirely subjecytive, at best, though by an large nothing but empty headed retarded drivel. Does not change the fact that Irenicus is many times more interesting than Sarevok who is so pathetic that you can beat him with a single item, Wand of Monster Summoning. Also what are you exactly unraveling? That Sarevok is behind it all? Rofl, that was so damn obvious like Koveras in Candlekeep. That you think that a standard plot like that is "better" shows what a retard you are.
5.) No they do not. No one had any idea that the romances would become that popular. You can thank the retarded biodrones for that and again it is completely meaningless as to the actual quality of the game considering that they are completely skippable and have almost no impact on the actual game.
6.) No I am not you are just as usual a complete and utter fuckwit who thinks that some bog standard +1 gear that does nothing but let you hit 5% more often and deals a little more damage is more interesting than gear that actually gives new tactical options like Karsomyr dispelling at double level or Staff of the Magi giving you Spell Trap for example.

I do love BG2 quite a lot though, a massive improvement upon the first game in pretty much every aspect.
BG2 did away with charming NPCs for dialogue :negative:

Wow an actual argument. It would have been indeed nice if they had kept that. That being said from what I saw recently BG 2 was planned to be much bigger but they had to cut a substantial amount of content because it was not realistic to achieve in a reasonable time frame not to mention would have cost a lot more to produce.
 

purupuru

Learned
Joined
Nov 2, 2019
Messages
414
For healing just use Virgil
Well if you play a tech dwarf build (which you probably should if you want to go tech), then you soon reach a very high tech-aptitude and Virgil will stop trying to heal you (and even if he does it has a high chance of failure). I'd say molotovs are not that reliable if you don't invest in throwing, but salves are very good, the ingredients are cheap and widely available.
 

Beans00

Augur
Joined
Aug 27, 2008
Messages
985
4.) Nonsense. The story of BG 1 is a bog standard conspiracy with the only minor twist being that the end villian does that to ascend to godhood and that is not even that uncommon either that a villain wants to ascend to godhood. By comparison Irenicus is much more interesting. At least he gets fleshed out a little, what to you get to know about Sarevok in BG 1 apart him being the PC's half brother? Nothing of substance Sarevok is a very one dimenional primitive villain with the barest minimum of basic characterization behind him.
Also Irenicus is "emo for hours"? Have you actually played the game? For most of the game he outsmarts and outmuscles everyone including THE massive secretive mage society which controls everything magical in the kingdom of Amn and who no one can go against yet he not only destroys them but completely takes them over including turning the previous leader into a gibbering imbecile through experimentation. Hell who thought he was an elf upon first impression? He most certainly did not look the part. Sarevok is a joke compared to Irenicus, if not for story reasons, Irenicus might as well have caught Sarevok and submit him to the same experiments he did upon the PC and Imoen and there would have been nothing that insiginfiacnt speck of dust called Sarevok could have done to prevent Irenicus using him like a lab rat. Also yet again no actual objective argument was made, but who cares about facts when your feelings matter more.

It's been like 19 years since I played BG2 through but from what I remember the story literally boiled down to.
Bald man was a bad elf, elves were mean to him and his sister and exiled them! Bald man is cursed and needs god essence to kill mean elves!

If irenicus has no voice actor or a shitty voice actor literally no one would remember the story in that game. The rest of your post reeks of pure salt and isn't really worth responding to.



FYI- I don't particularly care about either BG, I rank them about the same after their respective strengths and weaknesses.
 

Sykar

Arcane
Joined
Dec 2, 2014
Messages
11,297
Location
Turn right after Alpha Centauri
4.) Nonsense. The story of BG 1 is a bog standard conspiracy with the only minor twist being that the end villian does that to ascend to godhood and that is not even that uncommon either that a villain wants to ascend to godhood. By comparison Irenicus is much more interesting. At least he gets fleshed out a little, what to you get to know about Sarevok in BG 1 apart him being the PC's half brother? Nothing of substance Sarevok is a very one dimenional primitive villain with the barest minimum of basic characterization behind him.
Also Irenicus is "emo for hours"? Have you actually played the game? For most of the game he outsmarts and outmuscles everyone including THE massive secretive mage society which controls everything magical in the kingdom of Amn and who no one can go against yet he not only destroys them but completely takes them over including turning the previous leader into a gibbering imbecile through experimentation. Hell who thought he was an elf upon first impression? He most certainly did not look the part. Sarevok is a joke compared to Irenicus, if not for story reasons, Irenicus might as well have caught Sarevok and submit him to the same experiments he did upon the PC and Imoen and there would have been nothing that insiginfiacnt speck of dust called Sarevok could have done to prevent Irenicus using him like a lab rat. Also yet again no actual objective argument was made, but who cares about facts when your feelings matter more.

It's been like 19 years since I played BG2 through but from what I remember the story literally boiled down to.
Bald man was a bad elf, elves were mean to him and his sister and exiled them! Bald man is cursed and needs god essence to kill mean elves!

If irenicus has no voice actor or a shitty voice actor literally no one would remember the story in that game. The rest of your post reeks of pure salt and isn't really worth responding to.

BG 1 story: Generic villain discovers he has god stuff in him. Proceeds to engulf region in murder in attempt to ascend. The end.
Wow man what a surprise two can play this silly game and castrate a story.
 

Beans00

Augur
Joined
Aug 27, 2008
Messages
985
4.) Nonsense. The story of BG 1 is a bog standard conspiracy with the only minor twist being that the end villian does that to ascend to godhood and that is not even that uncommon either that a villain wants to ascend to godhood. By comparison Irenicus is much more interesting. At least he gets fleshed out a little, what to you get to know about Sarevok in BG 1 apart him being the PC's half brother? Nothing of substance Sarevok is a very one dimenional primitive villain with the barest minimum of basic characterization behind him.
Also Irenicus is "emo for hours"? Have you actually played the game? For most of the game he outsmarts and outmuscles everyone including THE massive secretive mage society which controls everything magical in the kingdom of Amn and who no one can go against yet he not only destroys them but completely takes them over including turning the previous leader into a gibbering imbecile through experimentation. Hell who thought he was an elf upon first impression? He most certainly did not look the part. Sarevok is a joke compared to Irenicus, if not for story reasons, Irenicus might as well have caught Sarevok and submit him to the same experiments he did upon the PC and Imoen and there would have been nothing that insiginfiacnt speck of dust called Sarevok could have done to prevent Irenicus using him like a lab rat. Also yet again no actual objective argument was made, but who cares about facts when your feelings matter more.

It's been like 19 years since I played BG2 through but from what I remember the story literally boiled down to.
Bald man was a bad elf, elves were mean to him and his sister and exiled them! Bald man is cursed and needs god essence to kill mean elves!

If irenicus has no voice actor or a shitty voice actor literally no one would remember the story in that game. The rest of your post reeks of pure salt and isn't really worth responding to.

BG 1 story: Generic villain discovers he has god stuff in him. Proceeds to engulf region in murder in attempt to ascend. The end.
Wow man what a surprise two can play this silly game and castrate a story.

You know I can see a you as a funny little kid listening to 'I will not be contained I will not be controlled, Know this as you die ever pathetic ever fools'. I bet it made the hairs on the back of your neck stand up and you thought it was the most badass thing you've ever heard.
Well all it made me do was cringe for obvious reasons to anyone who's not socially awkward.

BG1, the story isn't great but I enjoyed how it unraveled. At least that game gives you some motivation to continue, foster father dies and you have assassins coming after you. BG2? Go save imoen, Go chase after bald man.
As for actual BG2 vs BG1 it's pretty simple. The first half of bg1 is pure dogshit while the 2nd half is pretty excellent. The first half of bg2 on the other hand is excellent while the 2nd half is complete shit. (IMO at least)

I don't judge people for having more frun with BG2. I personally hated the underdark segment and he dragged the whole game down for me. BG1 had bad parts but I feel they didn't last as long. When discussing the story though? I feel like anyone who's shilling for bg2 is just looking to suck their own dick and find reasons to be pretentious.
 

Sykar

Arcane
Joined
Dec 2, 2014
Messages
11,297
Location
Turn right after Alpha Centauri
4.) Nonsense. The story of BG 1 is a bog standard conspiracy with the only minor twist being that the end villian does that to ascend to godhood and that is not even that uncommon either that a villain wants to ascend to godhood. By comparison Irenicus is much more interesting. At least he gets fleshed out a little, what to you get to know about Sarevok in BG 1 apart him being the PC's half brother? Nothing of substance Sarevok is a very one dimenional primitive villain with the barest minimum of basic characterization behind him.
Also Irenicus is "emo for hours"? Have you actually played the game? For most of the game he outsmarts and outmuscles everyone including THE massive secretive mage society which controls everything magical in the kingdom of Amn and who no one can go against yet he not only destroys them but completely takes them over including turning the previous leader into a gibbering imbecile through experimentation. Hell who thought he was an elf upon first impression? He most certainly did not look the part. Sarevok is a joke compared to Irenicus, if not for story reasons, Irenicus might as well have caught Sarevok and submit him to the same experiments he did upon the PC and Imoen and there would have been nothing that insiginfiacnt speck of dust called Sarevok could have done to prevent Irenicus using him like a lab rat. Also yet again no actual objective argument was made, but who cares about facts when your feelings matter more.

It's been like 19 years since I played BG2 through but from what I remember the story literally boiled down to.
Bald man was a bad elf, elves were mean to him and his sister and exiled them! Bald man is cursed and needs god essence to kill mean elves!

If irenicus has no voice actor or a shitty voice actor literally no one would remember the story in that game. The rest of your post reeks of pure salt and isn't really worth responding to.

BG 1 story: Generic villain discovers he has god stuff in him. Proceeds to engulf region in murder in attempt to ascend. The end.
Wow man what a surprise two can play this silly game and castrate a story.

You know I can see a you as a funny little kid listening to 'I will not be contained I will not be controlled, Know this as you die ever pathetic ever fools'. I bet it made the hairs on the back of your neck stand up and you thought it was the most badass thing you've ever heard.
Well all it made me do was cringe for obvious reasons to anyone who's not socially awkward.

BG1, the story isn't great but I enjoyed how it unraveled. At least that game gives you some motivation to continue, foster father dies and you have assassins coming after you. BG2? Go save imoen, Go chase after bald man.
As for actual BG2 vs BG1 it's pretty simple. The first half of bg1 is pure dogshit while the 2nd half is pretty excellent. The first half of bg2 on the other hand is excellent while the 2nd half is complete shit. (IMO at least)

I don't judge people for having more frun with BG2. I personally hated the underdark segment and he dragged the whole game down for me. BG1 had bad parts but I feel they didn't last as long. When discussing the story though? I feel like anyone who's shilling for bg2 is just looking to suck their own dick and find reasons to be pretentious.

1.)Funny since you are clearly that little retard who tries too hard to sound smart. "I will be the last... and you will go first" probably made you all wet in your pants even though you barely had grown out your first pubic hair.
2.)Oh yeah a foster father you have one dialogue with and know for about 2 minutes, so much depth so much attachmant so much motivation!
3.)Except of course that BG 2 has better combat, better encounter design, far less empty wasted space, exciting loot, better characterization of the joinable companions, etc. There is very little that BG 1 does objectively better. First half of BG 1 blows a lot even in comparison to BG 2 SoA second half.
 

Beans00

Augur
Joined
Aug 27, 2008
Messages
985
2.)Oh yeah a foster father you have one dialogue with and know for about 2 minutes, so much depth so much attachmant so much motivation!
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