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Are casual gamers ruining it for the rest of us?

DarkUnderlord

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<a href="http://www.gameplayer.com.au/gp_documents/090116CasualHardcore.aspx">GamePlayer ask the question: "Are 'Casuals' Killing Gaming?"</a>:
<blockquote>Before we even get onto the subject of what is or is not a casual or hardcore gamer – and whether such labels are useful – it’s indisputable that the popularity of casual gaming is changing the way games are designed. When Gears Of War 2 director Cliff Bleszinski informed the press that Epic was gunning for the casual game market it wasn’t met with universal praise; he would have caused less of a fuss by announcing Mickey Mouse as a central character.
[...]
But it’s not just Bleszinski who sees casual gamers as a new target audience. In an attempt to bridge the gap between the two extremes, Lionhead’s Peter Molyneux wanted Fable II to be accessible to gamers of all persuasions: “Maybe part of Fable is about this look; can’t we create a game that both of these people can play and enjoy?” he said at the recent Games Convention Asia. “You’ve got to give the core gamers all the carrots they love and casual gamers the accessibility that they want. And that’s what we tried to do with Fable.”
[...]
But it’s here where the lines between what is and isn’t a casual game become blurred. By dumbing down the easiest difficulty setting in Gears Of War 2 to the point where anyone’s mum can play it, did Epic really make its opus a ‘casual’ game? Is a casual game defined by how simple and accessible it is? Or is a casual gamer someone who plays for a few minutes at a time? Perhaps a casual gamer is someone who only plays ‘social’ games?</blockquote>
It's five pages long and worth a read.

Spotted @ <a href="http://www.gamebanshee.com">GameBanshee</a>
 

Cassidy

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Most of my friends who aren't much into gaming prefer some four to eight years old racing games and some classic multiplayer FPSes like Quake and Unreal Tournament over what is currently marketed as "casual games".

The problem isn't casual gaming by itself. Solitaire, online freecell, run-of-the-mill multiplayer FPSes and racing games never harmed other genres. The problem is the insistence in trying to "convert" genres that aren't appropriate for casual gaming at all into the fad, and what can only be described as an attempt to draw the target audience from movies and brainless TV shows into games.
 

ushdugery

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Cassidy said:
Most of my friends who aren't much into gaming prefer some four to eight years old racing games and some classic multiplayer FPSes like Quake and Unreal Tournament over what is currently marketed as "casual games".

The problem isn't casual gaming by itself. Solitaire, online freecell, run-of-the-mill multiplayer FPSes and racing games never harmed other genres. The problem is the insistence in trying to "convert" genres that aren't appropriate for casual gaming at all into the fad, and what can only be described as an attempt to draw the target audience from movies and brainless TV shows into games.
Yeah all the "casual" gamers that I know won't touch anything newer than 5 years old because they really can't be stuffed spending that much money on something they do for so few hours of the week.
 
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Nope. Publishers who can't see the difference between demographics are. Just because you make your game piss-easy and "accessible" doesn't mean the Wii crowd is going to flock to your new shooter/RPG/strategy title.
 

hiver

Guest
One very obvious thing they are missing is that accessibility doesnt mean easy.

Making games easy inevitably leads to making games boring. Because there is no challenge whatsoever there is no rush and satisfaction of accomplishment. There is no struggle worth mentioning.

And no matter or amount of special effects, graphics and cool cut scenes cant give you that.

So you end up being forced to eat your own shit.
Bon appetite.
 

OSK

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trais

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Grab the Codex by the pussy
It's not casuals.
It's because with today's fancy graphics, motion capture, fully voiced dialogues, marketing and bribes for journalists etc. production of mainstream games cost millions of dollars, and thus games need to sell millions of copies to make at least some profit. And to do that, you need to make your game appealing for the widest audience possible.
As result we got dumbed down games so even casuals can play them and with twitchy combat for more "action" games. But casuals didn't caused the problem.

What we need now is few semi-indie studios catering for hardcore crowd with budget within $100k-$200, so when they sold tenth of what mainstream games are selling now it would be considered success rather than utter failure.
 

Dogsoup

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You are certainly full of shit. I like M&M World of Xeen and it's fucking casual gaming. As much as Lands of Lore, Dragon Wars or Wasteland. Do you think that these games were full of C&C and other bull you're wanking upon? No. Play Fallout for the 30th time, finding the gumgum gun and the whistle and hat combo and stop your crying. Personnally, I prefer the more casual Wasteland.
 

Dogsoup

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Even Avernum has more C&C than Darklands will ever have. But no, Avernum is shit because its graphics are puke and Vogel is Hitler. Not that I really like Avernum, I prefer Ultima IV. But you people are just so moronic and herd-thinking that it hits my leg, and oh god, it surely not is heavan bla bla bla.
 

hiver

Guest
You need to hit yourself with a brick over the head a few times.
You missed the last dose.
 

Melcar

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trais said:
It's not casuals.
It's because with today's fancy graphics, motion capture, fully voiced dialogues, marketing and bribes for journalists etc. production of mainstream games cost millions of dollars, and thus games need to sell millions of copies to make at least some profit. And to do that, you need to make your game appealing for the widest audience possible.
As result we got dumbed down games so even casuals can play them and with twitchy combat for more "action" games. But casuals didn't caused the problem.

What we need now is few semi-indie studios catering for hardcore crowd with budget within $100k-$200, so when they sold tenth of what mainstream games are selling now it would be considered success rather than utter failure.
 

Dogsoup

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All the great RPGs which practically defined the genre from 1980 to 1995 were uber-casual games. And still they were great and sometimes had a lot of depth (it's not a paradox). The problem doesn't reside in casual or not, it resides in boring or not.
 

Dogsoup

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Even the shittiest Bioware game (and god knows I hate them with a passion) are much more orthodox RPGs in a p&p way than, let's say Alternate Reality Dungeon (which I love).
 

Dogsoup

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Might & Magic were quite easy games. And casual to top it all. It didn't mean they were boring.
 

Dogsoup

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And for me Ultima VII and its add-ons were a snooze-fest. It's just a question of acquired taste, I guess. But I don't think it has anything to do with a notion of being casual. I did love PST and it was quite complex.
 

hiver

Guest
Of course they were boring.
Compared to modern games they were mazes of complexity. Compare to kings bounty - basically a clone with many features taken out from what they cloned.

You see to modern devs even M&M was too complicated for their imagined audience of casual gamers.

The problem is, as i said in that post above that you didnt even read, is that this moronic movement of making games accessible is stupidly leading into making games easy by simplifying them so much they end up boring because of utter lack of any kind of challenge.

moron.
 

Dogsoup

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You're wrong once more, hombre. Jrpgs can be quite complex. But they're just boring as shit. Dragon Wars was much more casual than Valkyrie Valhalla III (don't remember the name).
 

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