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Arkane Austin and Tango Gameworks shut down by Microsoft

Azdul

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There was an article I read a few days ago saying that devs just want to survive until 2025 and that 2024 will be a bloodbath in the industry, huge layoffs, that no one is funding games, etc. They are certain that 2025 will be a much better year. My question is, why do they believe this? I dont see any signs of the economy improving in a significant way. The only thing that could save the gaming industry would be a new pandemic forcing people to stay at home for months. Otherwise I think we will soon experience another crash.
What crash ?

Nintendo Switch era profits had exceeded their previous 35 years. Microsoft had thrown cool 75 bln $$$ at ActiBlizz and 7.5 bln $$$ at Bethesda acquisition.

The only problem is ...

No game released in April 2024 was as good as Fallout 4.

laughnow-excited.gif
 

RobotSquirrel

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Once upon a time I would have cared about gamedevs layoffs, but in 2024?
anyone worth caring about jumped ship around the time Chris Avellone did in 2015 at Obsidian. He was the canary in the coal mine sorta speaking. So much so that he tried to speak out against it, which is why those horrible people made the accusations they made.
 

IHaveHugeNick

Arcane
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Messages
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It's like they all joined gamedev in the era when it was rapidly expending and expected it to somehow last forever. Every industry perpetually goes through these market contractions, but you know what would have helped? It would help if you didn't keep antagonizing customers with woke shit. Significant part of fanbase keeps replaying old shit and ignoring new releases altogether.
 

Saint_Proverbius

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I didn't even watch the video lol.
You may not have watched the video, but you nailed it. She quite literally said nothing in her reply to the question, "Shouldn't success be rewarded as opposed to being laid off?" Basically, her answer was "Games are unique. This is an artform. We're trying to keep our promises." It was a total non-answer rather than an explanation of the decision which should have been the easy reply if the decision had some merit.
I disagree, it has Sega exclusives on it like Super Monkey Ball, F-Zero GX, Phantasy star online and other third party exclusives. It was just less numerous.
The big problem with the GameCube was that it didn't offer any experience beyond what it's competition had. They reworked the GameCube in to the Wii and it was their best selling home console ever. It sold five times the amount that the GameCube did because it offered something that the competition didn't have.
 

Ryzer

Arcane
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Messages
7,551
By the way, Fuck Microsoft, the online was free on all japanese consoles back then, only Shitsoft charged 50-60 bucks a year for the online. Then of course the other companies followed due to greediness.
So fuck you Microsoft.
 

Tacgnol

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Codex 2016 - The Age of Grimoire Grab the Codex by the pussy RPG Wokedex Strap Yourselves In Codex Year of the Donut Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag. Pathfinder: Wrath I helped put crap in Monomyth
You may not have watched the video, but you nailed it. She quite literally said nothing in her reply to the question, "Shouldn't success be rewarded as opposed to being laid off?" Basically, her answer was "Games are unique. This is an artform. We're trying to keep our promises." It was a total non-answer rather than an explanation of the decision which should have been the easy reply if the decision had some merit.

Yep, total PR non-answer.

Corpos gonna corpo.
 

RobotSquirrel

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Significant part of fanbase keeps replaying old shit and ignoring new releases altogether.
And the ESA goes out of its way to prevent you doing exactly that. Hence the remakes. I'm starting to think Ross has a good fucking point even if legally he doesn't have a leg to stand on. Revoking our games is bullshit.

Also to clarify further on the Tango Gameworks point, yes I know a dev contradicts the "everyone left the studio" narrative, however its 1 guy on twitter and its a single reply with no evidence to back it up. It has a very "trust me bro" vibe, never-mind the dude will still be behind NDAs. Plus we know veterans left the studio because remember the Qt Ikumi Nakamura that was the start of it, she went Indie because she got sick of Bethesda's bullshit.
The stress of developer-publisher politics and the publisher's ultimate control over Ghostwire: Tokyo left her unable to sleep and struggling with daily nightmares.[1]
They nearly fucking killed her.

They lost some damn talented staff in a short period of time and it kept happening. The reason Tango wanted to go on a hiring spree is to replenish the losses. The new narrative of Microsoft saying "nah" and just firing everyone doesn't make sense... what makes more sense is they bought Zenimax to see if the FDA would do anything and then pushed for Activision once it was confirmed they could get away with it. When people realized what was going on they left. Its not a secret that Microsoft = Death in this industry, the veterans all very much know it.

I just think ultimately Phil Spencer is an absolute cunt from all of this. The guys now even less trust worthy than Todd Howard and Peter Molyeneux.
 

NecroLord

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Harvey Smith was irrelevant after Deus Ex: Invisible War and Thief: Deadly Shadows.
Did he actually do something original or just Deus Ex wannabes?
 

Lutte

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The big problem with the GameCube was that it didn't offer any experience beyond what it's competition had. They reworked the GameCube in to the Wii and it was their best selling home console ever. It sold five times the amount that the GameCube did because it offered something that the competition didn't have.
No.
Although the motion control gimmick certainly helped the Wii reach stratospheric sales, the GC wouldn't have been so much of a dud if Nintendo hadn't been retarded with the N64.
A cartridge home console released in 1996. Many third party developers who were big for nintendo in the SNES era left them because of that. Others who remained just made shitty ports.
The playstation had already eaten most of the market by the time the PS2 and Gamecube were out to trade blows. The PS2, backwards compatible with the PS1, kept both the audience and developers developed with the PS1 and grew it further. The third parties who left ninty during the PS1 era had no major reason to come back for the GC. So the GC was a perfectly fine console that ended up paying for its predecessor mistake, really. Just like the Dreamcast paid for Sega's previous retardation.

And while the Wii sold a ton of units I'm doubtful it did Nintendo much good for the long run. The gimmick was indeed all too gimmicky. I bought one for the novelty factor just like many others at the time. Ultimately I didn't care for the motion controlled stuff much after the initial experience. The only games I played to completion were twilight princess, mario galaxy 1&2 and the metroid prime trilogy, which range from decent to good games in my book, but not the sort of stuff that would normally sell me on buying a system. Most people I knew who had bought a Wii left it to gather dust.

What really kept Nintendo afloat is the portable console market. They've held a permanent dominance there since the gameboy, and haven't made a truly fatal mistake unlike with home consoles. Always had a great library of third parties too. No doubt the switch was released as a home/portable hybrid because Nintendo saw no hope of clawing back their way to success after their previous failures there (the home market).
 

Infinitron

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Codex Year of the Donut Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
Not enough kids:
Back to the main story. Xbox now had an abundance of studios and teams. It had a popular subscription service. It had two next-generation consoles, including the budget-priced Xbox Series S to attract a wider audience. And it was launching all its games on PC, too, to give it an even wider group of players to attract into Game Pass. But then the growth stopped. The Game Pass subscriber base stalled.

Microsoft had convinced as many Xbox players that it could to subscribe, so was now focused on getting PC players to sign-up. Some of this was due to the post-pandemic fall in engagement the games industry saw as people were no longer in lockdown at home. But also, there's the simple fact the subscription business may not appeal as widely as Microsoft had expected.

Although Microsoft believed subscription could broaden the audience for games and potentially transform the business in the way it had in TV and music, others were more sceptical. Take-Two CEO Strauss Zelnick observed that the average gamer only plays two to three new games a year, and that's not exactly enough to justify a subscription fee for a lot of people.

https://www.eurogamer.net/why-xbox-believes-it-must-cut-costs-and-close-studios

Why Xbox believes it must cut costs and close studios​

Companies, particularly public companies like Microsoft, need to grow.

Investors that put money, or buy shares, in a business want to make money on their investment. And for that to happen the company's 'value' needs to go up. It needs to grow bigger. Growth could be many things, but it typically refers to revenue (the amount of money a company generates) or profit (the amount of money a company makes after costs). And to investors, a loss-making company that is getting bigger every year is more exciting than a profitable business that is going the other way.

This may sound obvious, but we're about to get into why Xbox just closed three Bethesda studios. And it's important to keep in mind that focus on growth. Because ultimately it doesn't matter how rich Microsoft is, or how much profit it's making, it's all about getting bigger.

Let's pop back in time a bit. Xbox as a business has had a rough ride over the past decade. Following the calamitous launch of Xbox One, the company saw its popularity in the console space drop substantially. It's been stuck firmly in third place behind Nintendo and PlayStation. But despite the fall in popularity, the Xbox business saw its revenue increase as the games industry became more digital. Still, for long-term success, Xbox knew it needed to find new customers if it wanted to compete more strongly. It needed a new plan.

With the backing of Microsoft's senior management, Xbox decided to try and change the game. Central to this was its Game Pass subscription business. The Xbox team believed that Game Pass would allow it to find new customers, generate more revenue and expand its business. And not just for itself, but the entire games industry.

For a subscription service to work, Microsoft knew it needed a regular release schedule of great games for people to play, and to do that effectively, it needed to significantly increase the number of games it was making. So it started to spend money picking up studios and franchises. At first, it was buying mostly mid-sized developers like Double Fine and Ninja Theory, or established partners like Playground Games. It was also investing in its own teams, expanding studios and forming new ones, such as The Initiative. This was all in service of creating a 'regular cadence of content' into Game Pass. But it was also about variety: Xbox wanted big games, small games, shooters, platformers, RPGs and so on.

After that initial spate of acquisitions, Xbox executives were talking about the need to acquire studios that were making games for different audiences. Xbox chief Phil Spencer would talk about a desire to buy a Japanese studio, which would help it find players in Southeast Asia. This Game Pass plan wasn't just about the US and Europe, it was also about Asia and South America. And for those territories, it would need to find games suited to the tastes of those players.

So it came as a surprise when the firm spent $7.5bn on Bethesda, a company best known for RPGs and shooters. Considering Xbox already owned Halo, Gears of War, Fable and had recently acquired the RPG specialist Obsidian, Bethesda didn't seem to fit the bill as a developer of different games for different audiences. It may not have been a strategic move, but buying Bethesda gave Xbox some huge franchises and a back catalogue of games that would provide a substantial boost to the Game Pass line-up. Although it's worth stressing that the bulk of that $7.5bn was for the likes of Elder Scrolls and Fallout, not Dishonored and The Evil Within. Microsoft's acquisitions would continue, eventually leading to that huge $69bn deal for Activision Blizzard.

(As an aside, although Xbox now had an abundance of developers, that wasn't quite translating to a huge number of major games - something likely down to Microsoft's relatively hands-off approach to working with newly acquired companies. Microsoft likes to adopt a 'limited integration strategy' when it comes to buying things. What that means is it leaves the company it's just bought to operate how it would have done, and only coming in and helping when asked. It was a strategy that worked spectacularly with Mojang and Minecraft, and how it approached the acquisition of LinkedIn. But I'd posit that allowing its teams to spend time building niche concepts like Bleeding Edge, Pentiment and Hi-Fi Rush has clashed with what Microsoft needed to grow Game Pass.)

Back to the main story. Xbox now had an abundance of studios and teams. It had a popular subscription service. It had two next-generation consoles, including the budget-priced Xbox Series S to attract a wider audience. And it was launching all its games on PC, too, to give it an even wider group of players to attract into Game Pass. But then the growth stopped. The Game Pass subscriber base stalled.

Microsoft had convinced as many Xbox players that it could to subscribe, so was now focused on getting PC players to sign-up. Some of this was due to the post-pandemic fall in engagement the games industry saw as people were no longer in lockdown at home. But also, there's the simple fact the subscription business may not appeal as widely as Microsoft had expected.

Although Microsoft believed subscription could broaden the audience for games and potentially transform the business in the way it had in TV and music, others were more sceptical. Take-Two CEO Strauss Zelnick observed that the average gamer only plays two to three new games a year, and that's not exactly enough to justify a subscription fee for a lot of people.

So Game Pass growth had largely stopped, and Xbox's traditional console business was also struggling, with sales trending behind Xbox One. To be fair, this growth situation wasn't just an Xbox problem. Most major games companies, including PlayStation, have seen a drop in users and sales in the face of a difficult economy. I covered a lot of this in my article on layoffs, but suffice to say, the games industry has stopped growing for now. And as I set out at the beginning, that's not good news for a public business such as Microsoft.

It's a times like this when a corporation looks at what it's investing in and asks whether those areas are set to grow. It doesn't matter too much about what Redfall did or Hi-Fi Rush, but rather what was coming next. When growth is hard to come by, does it make sense for Xbox to invest in a Hi-Fi Rush 2, or would it see better results if it invested in a new Fallout instead?

Titles like Dishonored or even upcoming projects like Hellblade 2 do play a role for Game Pass in terms of fleshing out the line-up and giving its audience something else to play. But ultimately, these type of games could be signed-up via deals with other publishers, rather than developed internally. These games are also hard to monetise outside of Game Pass. Out of the four big games Xbox made last year, Starfield was outside the Top 30 best-selling games in Europe, while Forza Motorsport, Hi-Fi Rush and Redfall all landed outside of the Top 200. And that includes the UK, where Xbox has a reasonable audience. In other words, these games are selling fewer units as a result of being in a subscription service.

Microsoft has been trying to monetise its games more over recent months and years, either via fees to access a game early or through in-game microtransactions. But although that can work for a blockbuster like Starfield, or a live-service effort like Sea of Thieves, it's hard to do with shorter, single-player titles like Ghostwire Tokyo. What Game Pass needs to move the needle are big games, titles like Call of Duty and Elder Scrolls. These are the 'high impact' games that are most likely to drive people to the service.

Regardless, Xbox is now trying to be less dependant on its Game Pass mission - and that's why we've started to see the company push harder into launching its games on multiple platforms. That includes continuing to support PC, it includes launching an app store on smartphones (watch this space), and yes, it includes publishing more games on PlayStation and Nintendo consoles, too. The market may not be growing, but that doesn't mean Xbox can't find new people to play its games. And it's a far easier to simply go to where those people are already playing, rather than trying to convince them to come to you.

To properly succeed as a third-party publisher also requires big hit games. A platform holder will often invest in titles that doesn't make complete commercial sense, especially if it can bring in new players to its platform (and those new players might go on to buy other games or accessories). There's a reason Bayonetta didn't work for Sega but does for Nintendo.

But publishers need their games to perform well on their own merits and need to factor things in like platform fees and store marketing costs. Publishers - massive publicly-owned ones, anyway - are increasingly steering away from investing in expensive games that take five years to make, come out and then that's it. Microsoft now has an abundance of major games brands - Minecraft, Call of Duty, Diablo, Fallout, Warcraft, Halo, Elder Scrolls and so on - that live on well beyond their launch window, and it's these games that will drive the most success (and growth) for Xbox as a publisher. Therefore, it makes business sense to invest in these games (and the studios behind them) rather than a new Evil Within or Prey.

It all comes back to that growth. If Game Pass numbers were going up, if the Xbox consoles were competing more effectively with Switch and PlayStation, if revenue and profit were heading in the right direction, then perhaps Tango Gameworks, Arkane Austin and Alpha Dog would continue to exist. But the numbers are not going up.

Microsoft's latest financials painted a troubling picture for Xbox (once you subtract the Activision Blizzard figures, the numbers were going backwards). And as a public corporation, it will do the thing that these goliaths do, which is ask: 'What do we need to do to grow?' 'What parts of our business isn't supporting that?' And 'Should we be investing in something else instead?'

Put simply, Xbox bet an obscene amount of money on a future that hasn't happened. The market has shifted under its feet and it's having to alter direction. And some of its teams are having to pay the price.
 

911 Jumper

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Lol, people think Ninja Theory is gonna be next. With the recent rumour that Perfect Dark is not in a good way (apparently they still haven't decided if it should be a first-person or a third-person game), it wouldn't surprise me if PD's dev studio, The Initiative, is on the list.

Ninja Theory seems like a weird one to mean. More like people just pulling a name out of their ass that they know rather than really thinking about it. Ninja Theory was a studio Microsoft specifically went after, and they’ve seemingly given them a whole lot of leeway with Hellblade 2.

Now if I was one of these studios like 343 Industries, The Coalition, or The Initiative I might be a little worried after the Activation buyout gave Microsoft a huge influx of developers that do first and third person shooters.
Ninja Theory's co-founder Tameem Antoniades left in April. Perhaps he knew the future of the studio isn't good (similar to Shinji Mikami) and chose to bail before it's officially closed. It really looks as if Xbox is killing off studios that produce niche games with a cult following, and only keeping studios that produce AAA blockbusters around. Ninja Theory's games don't do Elder Scrolls or COD numbers, so it's possible that NT could be on the list.

Gears 6 is scheduled for its reveal this summer, irc, so I think The Coalition will be ok. I think 343i could happen, though. The studio has already a poor reputation – it's often linked to Halo's “downfall”. So I can see Xbox closing 343 and handing Halo to one of the COD studios, if they decide to another Halo game.
Hellblade was never meant to be an AAA franchise with broader appeal, the first game had a very specific target audience.
Which is why I think it could be closed down. It's clear that Xbox has no interest in cultivating a collection of niche games. It's all about AAA blockbuster games from now on.
 
Last edited:

Ryzer

Arcane
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May 1, 2020
Messages
7,551
The big problem with the GameCube was that it didn't offer any experience beyond what it's competition had. They reworked the GameCube in to the Wii and it was their best selling home console ever. It sold five times the amount that the GameCube did because it offered something that the competition didn't have.
No.
Although the motion control gimmick certainly helped the Wii reach stratospheric sales, the GC wouldn't have been so much of a dud if Nintendo hadn't been retarded with the N64.
A cartridge home console released in 1996. Many third party developers who were big for nintendo in the SNES era left them because of that. Others who remained just made shitty ports.
The playstation had already eaten most of the market by the time the PS2 and Gamecube were out to trade blows. The PS2, backwards compatible with the PS1, kept both the audience and developers developed with the PS1 and grew it further. The third parties who left ninty during the PS1 era had no major reason to come back for the GC. So the GC was a perfectly fine console that ended up paying for its predecessor mistake, really. Just like the Dreamcast paid for Sega's previous retardation.

And while the Wii sold a ton of units I'm doubtful it did Nintendo much good for the long run. The gimmick was indeed all too gimmicky. I bought one for the novelty factor just like many others at the time. Ultimately I didn't care for the motion controlled stuff much after the initial experience. The only games I played to completion were twilight princess, mario galaxy 1&2 and the metroid prime trilogy, which range from decent to good games in my book, but not the sort of stuff that would normally sell me on buying a system. Most people I knew who had bought a Wii left it to gather dust.

What really kept Nintendo afloat is the portable console market. They've held a permanent dominance there since the gameboy, and haven't made a truly fatal mistake unlike with home consoles. Always had a great library of third parties too. No doubt the switch was released as a home/portable hybrid because Nintendo saw no hope of clawing back their way to success after their previous failures there (the home market).
They released the DS that was an immensely great console( not in terms of hardware however) that gathered a lot of developers. It was a reverse N64.
 

Cross

Arcane
Joined
Oct 14, 2017
Messages
3,036
Harvey Smith was irrelevant after Deus Ex: Invisible War and Thief: Deadly Shadows.
Did he actually do something original or just Deus Ex wannabes?
Prey 2016 and Dishonored games comes to mind
Harvey Smith didn't work on Prey. He's only credited as a playtester for Prey and "Business - Studio Director" for its DLC.

https://www.mobygames.com/person/4961/harvey-smith/credits/

He didn't work on Arx Fatalis or Dark Messiah either. Which doesn't exactly bode well for what's left of Arkane. Even if they got rid of all the trannies that produced Redfall, I very much doubt they'll ever make a game worth playing again.
 

ropetight

Savant
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Dec 9, 2018
Messages
1,687
Location
Lower Wolffuckery

shit its almost as bad as the Abbott defense.


Smile and wave boys, just smile and wave.

New vid from Alanah Pearce of Santa Monica Studios:
You mean the same GDC where a bunch of idiots yelled and cried because the industry had gone to shit? and everyone just suddenly felt better about it?... You idiots paid for that conference!?
fucking copium.

There is a moment in video I thought she had a stroke how much involuntary rapid blinking she had.
But she just got ready steady go! for spewing all that meaningless shit afterwards.
 

IHaveHugeNick

Arcane
Joined
Apr 5, 2015
Messages
1,870,546
Although Xbox now had an abundance of developers, that wasn't quite translating to a huge number of major games - something likely down to Microsoft's relatively hands-off approach to working with newly acquired companies. Microsoft likes to adopt a 'limited integration strategy' when it comes to buying things. What that means is it leaves the company it's just bought to operate how it would have done, and only coming in and helping when asked.

We've come full circle. Back in a day people would blame shitty games on too much interference from suits, now apparently games suck because suits are not interfering enough.

:balance:
 

911 Jumper

Learned
Joined
Jun 12, 2023
Messages
1,496
I am not surprised by this. I can see them killing off the Xbox brand. As I said in a previous post, this all feels like some form of managed decline. This gen was about securing the big Western IPs, getting King for mobile, etc., even if doing all that meant sabotaging the console business. Can't have a healthy console business when every capable device is also an “Xbox”.
 

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