Putting the 'role' back in role-playing games since 2002.
Donate to Codex
Good Old Games
  • Welcome to rpgcodex.net, a site dedicated to discussing computer based role-playing games in a free and open fashion. We're less strict than other forums, but please refer to the rules.

    "This message is awaiting moderator approval": All new users must pass through our moderation queue before they will be able to post normally. Until your account has "passed" your posts will only be visible to yourself (and moderators) until they are approved. Give us a week to get around to approving / deleting / ignoring your mundane opinion on crap before hassling us about it. Once you have passed the moderation period (think of it as a test), you will be able to post normally, just like all the other retards.

Armored Core VI: Fires of Rubicon

KIss My Ass

Real name: SDG
Patron
Dumbfuck Shitposter
Joined
Feb 3, 2023
Messages
2,920
Location
Aya Cash's vagina I hope
Codex+ Now Streaming!
I wish I had a way to record my times with Vanquish in the early days, when I was in the top 10 or top 5 on the challenge leaderboards among the japs and ching-chongs, aka the best of the best. I was that good at this speedy action shit. Now I'm a hollow shell of what I once was. It's depressing as fuck. Games like these bum me out. Just reminds you that you're slowly dying.
 

Lyric Suite

Converting to Islam
Joined
Mar 23, 2006
Messages
56,812
The increasing focus on bullshit bosses is part of the decline.
I enjoyed Sen's Fortress for the fortress, Iron Golem was a good boss after a great level, same with Blighttown and Quelaag etc.. nowadays everything in From games is banal except the bosses, which are bullshit.
Excuse the hyperbole. Still good games compared to the rest of the industry.
Am a hopeless lover of From Software but I agree with you. The series at its peak, for me, was about excellent and atmospheric level design topped off with a good boss. People meme on the difficult bosses like O&S, Malenia and Gael so the devs think people want more of that because some big mouths won't shut up. Its the same bullshit where people act like the draw to the series is the difficulty.


Also I'm glad you mentioned Blighttown becasue it was a damn good level that people moan about too much. It sucked on the original hardware due to slowdown but once that was fixed it easily became one of the best zones in the game. The swamp = bad Dark Souls meme is trash. Lets look...

Demons Souls - Valley of Defilement. Peak incline, best swamp level ever.

Blight Town - Awesome, great verticality and fun in general.

The Gutter - Kind of annoying but I enjoyed the atmosphere plus any level involving the torch mechanic is great in DS2.

Farron's Keep - I liked this level somehow but I don't know why.

I agree that the world and level design in Dark Souls 1 is what made the game, all though i wouldn't go so far as saying the boss design didn't matter.

However, if you are going to make an argument that loss of focus on level design is "decline", wouldn't that apply to Bloodborne as well?

Because i think that's when the "decline" in question begun, especially since a lot of what was in Bloodborne got carried over into Dark Souls 3.

At that point, one might say something like "well, Bloodborne was a different kind of game, didn't need big interconnected maps like Dark Souls 1", but then, we aren't talking about decline specifically anymore, but different and apparently legitimate directions. In which case, big focus on bosses and less focus on level design is appropriate for games like Bloodborne or Sekiro, but not Dark Souls.

When i first played Dark Souls 3, i made a similar argument, that the focus on boss design at the expense of level design was taking the series in the wrong direction and i even blamed Bloodborne for it. Turns out the issue was that they were super lazy when they made Dark Souls 3 which was really just a Bloodborne total conversion if you really want to get down to it.

Now compared to Dark Souls 3, Elden Ring was a return to form if we consider the legacy dungeons, and it's only the gargantuan open world filler that gets in the way of that special Dark Souls 1 experience, but then Elden Ring is a different beast from either Bloodborne or Sekiro so i'm not sure we can talk about a single, general decline here that basically amounts to bosses at the expense of map design. As much as we all hated the open world, it isn't exactly that. Elden Ring also offers a great deal of customization, build possibilities and lots of "toys" to play around so again you can't say there's a general trend to turn Souls into Bloodborne. Apparently, Dark Souls 3 was a single case here.

This brings us up to Armored Core, because this is a game where the kind of Dark Souls 1 style of world building wouldn't fit. The only way you could expand on the map design here is by making them larger with multiple militarized objectives etc (and i certainly wished they had done that). The introduction of Sekiro bosses into the AC formula is again a different matter than the focus on bosses at the expense of world design that one might see as a degeneration when applied to Souls. I don't know how elaborate maps were in later Armored Core entires but i can't imagine the design was much different than this.
 
Last edited:

KIss My Ass

Real name: SDG
Patron
Dumbfuck Shitposter
Joined
Feb 3, 2023
Messages
2,920
Location
Aya Cash's vagina I hope
Codex+ Now Streaming!
The increasing focus on bullshit bosses is part of the decline.
I enjoyed Sen's Fortress for the fortress, Iron Golem was a good boss after a great level, same with Blighttown and Quelaag etc.. nowadays everything in From games is banal except the bosses, which are bullshit.
Excuse the hyperbole. Still good games compared to the rest of the industry.
Am a hopeless lover of From Software but I agree with you. The series at its peak, for me, was about excellent and atmospheric level design topped off with a good boss. People meme on the difficult bosses like O&S, Malenia and Gael so the devs think people want more of that because some big mouths won't shut up. Its the same bullshit where people act like the draw to the series is the difficulty.


Also I'm glad you mentioned Blighttown becasue it was a damn good level that people moan about too much. It sucked on the original hardware due to slowdown but once that was fixed it easily became one of the best zones in the game. The swamp = bad Dark Souls meme is trash. Lets look...

Demons Souls - Valley of Defilement. Peak incline, best swamp level ever.

Blight Town - Awesome, great verticality and fun in general.

The Gutter - Kind of annoying but I enjoyed the atmosphere plus any level involving the torch mechanic is great in DS2.

Farron's Keep - I liked this level somehow but I don't know why.

I agree that the world and level design in Dark Souls 1 is what made the game, all though i wouldn't go so far as saying the boss design didn't matter.

However, if you are going to make an argument that loss of focus on level design is "decline", wouldn't that apply to Bloodborne as well?

Because i think that's when the "decline" in question begun, especially since a lot of what was in Bloodborne got carried over into Dark Souls 3.

At that point, one might say something like "well, Bloodborne was a different kind of game, didn't need big interconnected maps like Dark Souls 1", but then, we aren't talking about decline specifically anymore, but different and apparently legitimate directions. In which case, big focus on bosses and less focus on level design is appropriate for games like Bloodborne or Sekiro, but not Dark Souls.

When i first played Dark Souls 3, i made a similar argument, that the focus on boss design at the expense of level design was taking the series in the wrong direction and i even blamed Bloodborne for it. Turns out the issue was that they were super lazy when they made Dark Souls 3 which was really just a Bloodborne total conversion if you really want to get down to it.

Now compared to Dark Souls 3, Elden Ring was a return to form if we consider the legacy dungeons, and it's only the gargantuan open world filler that gets in the way of that special Dark Souls 1 experience, but then Elden Ring is a different beast from either Bloodborne or Sekiro so i'm not sure we can talk about a single, general decline here that basically amounts to bosses at the expense of map design. As much as we all hated the open world, it isn't exactly that. Elden Ring also offers a great deal of customization, build possibilities and lots of "toys" to play around so again you can't say there's a general trend to turn Souls into Bloodborne. Apparently, Dark Souls 3 was a single case here.

This brings us up to Armored Core, because this is a game where the kind of Dark Souls 1 style of world building wouldn't fit. The only way you could expand on the map design here is by making them larger with multiple militarized objectives etc (and i certainly wished they had done that). The introduction of Sekiro bosses into the AC formula is again a different matter than the focus on bosses at the expense of world design that one might see as a degeneration when applied to Souls. I don't know how elaborate maps were in later Armored Core entires but i can't imagine the design was much different than this.
But you agree Dark Souls 2 + it's DLCs is better than Dark Souls 1 overall, right?
 

Vyadhis

Learned
Joined
Aug 7, 2020
Messages
179
I wish I had a way to record my times with Vanquish in the early days, when I was in the top 10 or top 5 on the challenge leaderboards among the japs and ching-chongs, aka the best of the best. I was that good at this speedy action shit. Now I'm a hollow shell of what I once was. It's depressing as fuck. Games like these bum me out. Just reminds you that you're slowly dying.
What I miss is when I had loads of energy to play all these games, I feel so drained anymore in my age and it frustrates me. I hydrate, take vitamins, try to be healthy but I just can't beat aging I guess. Gone are the days of me marathoning Warcraft 3 for 16 hours without sleep.
 

Retardo

Learned
Joined
Jun 26, 2020
Messages
225
The increasing focus on bullshit bosses is part of the decline.
I enjoyed Sen's Fortress for the fortress, Iron Golem was a good boss after a great level, same with Blighttown and Quelaag etc.. nowadays everything in From games is banal except the bosses, which are bullshit.
Excuse the hyperbole. Still good games compared to the rest of the industry.
Am a hopeless lover of From Software but I agree with you. The series at its peak, for me, was about excellent and atmospheric level design topped off with a good boss. People meme on the difficult bosses like O&S, Malenia and Gael so the devs think people want more of that because some big mouths won't shut up. Its the same bullshit where people act like the draw to the series is the difficulty.


Also I'm glad you mentioned Blighttown becasue it was a damn good level that people moan about too much. It sucked on the original hardware due to slowdown but once that was fixed it easily became one of the best zones in the game. The swamp = bad Dark Souls meme is trash. Lets look...

Demons Souls - Valley of Defilement. Peak incline, best swamp level ever.

Blight Town - Awesome, great verticality and fun in general.

The Gutter - Kind of annoying but I enjoyed the atmosphere plus any level involving the torch mechanic is great in DS2.

Farron's Keep - I liked this level somehow but I don't know why.
Every level you listed contains a swamp in one form or another, looks like you're a swamp fetishist.
:hmmm:
 
Joined
Aug 10, 2012
Messages
5,895
I wish I had a way to record my times with Vanquish in the early days, when I was in the top 10 or top 5 on the challenge leaderboards among the japs and ching-chongs, aka the best of the best. I was that good at this speedy action shit. Now I'm a hollow shell of what I once was. It's depressing as fuck. Games like these bum me out. Just reminds you that you're slowly dying.
What I miss is when I had loads of energy to play all these games, I feel so drained anymore in my age and it frustrates me. I hydrate, take vitamins, try to be healthy but I just can't beat aging I guess. Gone are the days of me marathoning Warcraft 3 for 16 hours without sleep.
I'm 43 and am still able to play 12 hours of nonstop Dota. Get with the times, gramps
 
Joined
Mar 18, 2009
Messages
7,355
There are some builds that seem to trivilize bosses and if you don't use those bosses are actually harder than anything in Elden Ring, which to me is clearly hyperbole but since the Sekiro guy was the director of this game there's a possibility they really are that hard (if done the hard way, with no OP builds).

Sounds like you were filtered by Sekiro before even really learning to play it, none of the fights in it were as hard as the most bullshit bosses in Elden Ring for me. Of course I wasn't looking up on the internet how to break these fights, maybe I would think differently if I had. But if played normally end game bosses in ER are way more bullshit than Sekiro in my opinion. All except Demon of Hatred maybe.
 
Last edited:

Nathir

Liturgist
Joined
Aug 3, 2017
Messages
1,102
I wish I had a way to record my times with Vanquish in the early days, when I was in the top 10 or top 5 on the challenge leaderboards among the japs and ching-chongs, aka the best of the best. I was that good at this speedy action shit. Now I'm a hollow shell of what I once was. It's depressing as fuck. Games like these bum me out. Just reminds you that you're slowly dying.
What I miss is when I had loads of energy to play all these games, I feel so drained anymore in my age and it frustrates me. I hydrate, take vitamins, try to be healthy but I just can't beat aging I guess. Gone are the days of me marathoning Warcraft 3 for 16 hours without sleep.
I'm 43 and am still able to play 12 hours of nonstop Dota. Get with the times, gramps

Spoiler alert: Vyadhis is 83.
 

Vyadhis

Learned
Joined
Aug 7, 2020
Messages
179
The increasing focus on bullshit bosses is part of the decline.
I enjoyed Sen's Fortress for the fortress, Iron Golem was a good boss after a great level, same with Blighttown and Quelaag etc.. nowadays everything in From games is banal except the bosses, which are bullshit.
Excuse the hyperbole. Still good games compared to the rest of the industry.
Am a hopeless lover of From Software but I agree with you. The series at its peak, for me, was about excellent and atmospheric level design topped off with a good boss. People meme on the difficult bosses like O&S, Malenia and Gael so the devs think people want more of that because some big mouths won't shut up. Its the same bullshit where people act like the draw to the series is the difficulty.


Also I'm glad you mentioned Blighttown becasue it was a damn good level that people moan about too much. It sucked on the original hardware due to slowdown but once that was fixed it easily became one of the best zones in the game. The swamp = bad Dark Souls meme is trash. Lets look...

Demons Souls - Valley of Defilement. Peak incline, best swamp level ever.

Blight Town - Awesome, great verticality and fun in general.

The Gutter - Kind of annoying but I enjoyed the atmosphere plus any level involving the torch mechanic is great in DS2.

Farron's Keep - I liked this level somehow but I don't know why.
Every level you listed contains a swamp in one form or another, looks like you're a swamp fetishist.
:hmmm:
Guilty as charged. I've loved swamps ever since I was a little kid. My dad use to work at a nature center during summers and he'd take me on lots of hikes. We'd go to swamps too.
 

Nathir

Liturgist
Joined
Aug 3, 2017
Messages
1,102
The increasing focus on bullshit bosses is part of the decline.
I enjoyed Sen's Fortress for the fortress, Iron Golem was a good boss after a great level, same with Blighttown and Quelaag etc.. nowadays everything in From games is banal except the bosses, which are bullshit.
Excuse the hyperbole. Still good games compared to the rest of the industry.
Am a hopeless lover of From Software but I agree with you. The series at its peak, for me, was about excellent and atmospheric level design topped off with a good boss. People meme on the difficult bosses like O&S, Malenia and Gael so the devs think people want more of that because some big mouths won't shut up. Its the same bullshit where people act like the draw to the series is the difficulty.


Also I'm glad you mentioned Blighttown becasue it was a damn good level that people moan about too much. It sucked on the original hardware due to slowdown but once that was fixed it easily became one of the best zones in the game. The swamp = bad Dark Souls meme is trash. Lets look...

Demons Souls - Valley of Defilement. Peak incline, best swamp level ever.

Blight Town - Awesome, great verticality and fun in general.

The Gutter - Kind of annoying but I enjoyed the atmosphere plus any level involving the torch mechanic is great in DS2.

Farron's Keep - I liked this level somehow but I don't know why.

I agree that the world and level design in Dark Souls 1 is what made the game, all though i wouldn't go so far as saying the boss design didn't matter.

However, if you are going to make an argument that loss of focus on level design is "decline", wouldn't that apply to Bloodborne as well?

Because i think that's when the "decline" in question begun, especially since a lot of what was in Bloodborne got carried over into Dark Souls 3.

At that point, one might say something like "well, Bloodborne was a different kind of game, didn't need big interconnected maps like Dark Souls 1", but then, we aren't talking about decline specifically anymore, but different and apparently legitimate directions. In which case, big focus on bosses and less focus on level design is appropriate for games like Bloodborne or Sekiro, but not Dark Souls.

When i first played Dark Souls 3, i made a similar argument, that the focus on boss design at the expense of level design was taking the series in the wrong direction and i even blamed Bloodborne for it. Turns out the issue was that they were super lazy when they made Dark Souls 3 which was really just a Bloodborne total conversion if you really want to get down to it.

Now compared to Dark Souls 3, Elden Ring was a return to form if we consider the legacy dungeons, and it's only the gargantuan open world filler that gets in the way of that special Dark Souls 1 experience, but then Elden Ring is a different beast from either Bloodborne or Sekiro so i'm not sure we can talk about a single, general decline here that basically amounts to bosses at the expense of map design. As much as we all hated the open world, it isn't exactly that. Elden Ring also offers a great deal of customization, build possibilities and lots of "toys" to play around so again you can't say there's a general trend to turn Souls into Bloodborne. Apparently, Dark Souls 3 was a single case here.

This brings us up to Armored Core, because this is a game where the kind of Dark Souls 1 style of world building wouldn't fit. The only way you could expand on the map design here is by making them larger with multiple militarized objectives etc (and i certainly wished they had done that). The introduction of Sekiro bosses into the AC formula is again a different matter than the focus on bosses at the expense of world design that one might see as a degeneration when applied to Souls. I don't know how elaborate maps were in later Armored Core entires but i can't imagine the design was much different than this.

For me what makes souls games is also art design and atmosphere. And Elden Ring I think is really exceptional in that regard. So despite the open world faults, it's still an amazing game for me.
 

Lyric Suite

Converting to Islam
Joined
Mar 23, 2006
Messages
56,812
There are some builds that seem to trivilize bosses and if you don't use those bosses are actually harder than anything in Elden Ring, which to me is clearly hyperbole but since the Sekiro guy was the director of this game there's a possibility they really are that hard (if done the hard way, with no OP builds).

Sounds like you were filtered by Sekiro before even really learning to play it, none of the fights in it were as hard as the most bullshit bosses in Elden Ring for me. Of course I wasn't looking up on the internet how to break these fights, maybe I would think differently if I had. But if played normally end game bosses in ER are way more bullshit than Sekiro in my opinion. All except Demon of Hatred maybe.

I'm going by what i heard i never actually tried Sekiro. Every time i made an attempt i got cock blocked by something else, last one being Elden Ring.

I could have tried it right now but i opted for AC because i'm sort of sick of swords for the moment.
 

KIss My Ass

Real name: SDG
Patron
Dumbfuck Shitposter
Joined
Feb 3, 2023
Messages
2,920
Location
Aya Cash's vagina I hope
Codex+ Now Streaming!
There are some builds that seem to trivilize bosses and if you don't use those bosses are actually harder than anything in Elden Ring, which to me is clearly hyperbole but since the Sekiro guy was the director of this game there's a possibility they really are that hard (if done the hard way, with no OP builds).

Sounds like you were filtered by Sekiro before even really learning to play it, none of the fights in it were as hard as the most bullshit bosses in Elden Ring for me. Of course I wasn't looking up on the internet how to break these fights, maybe I would think differently if I had. But if played normally end game bosses in ER are way more bullshit than Sekiro in my opinion. All except Demon of Hatred maybe.
I was filtered by Sekiro at first and then I learned it. Great game but I never finished it. Owl was the final boss to me. After I beat him I didn't feel any drive to continue on. I remember the exact point I lost interest in the game. I was fucking around with that last Bull miniboss running around in circles and I just stopped and asked "why am I doing this?" and dropped the game forever. I have no intention of going back, but it's a great game. I just don't have the energy to deal with demanding action shit anymore. It sucks because From makes the best games ever but I'm nearing the end of my life cycle and getting slow as fuck.

Fighting Owl is what broke me.
 

TedNugent

Arcane
Joined
Dec 16, 2013
Messages
6,363
Just bought this game on PS5, got to the Balteus fight, really annoyed, got creamed many times.

I guess what annoys me is that the game seems to want you to rely so heavily on the roadie run booster mode and the auto tracking sword attack on boss fights to do any damage, jesus christ, this is nothing like OG AC. Narrative headgirl literally says you have to break the pulse shield "to do any meaningful damage."

Missing my strafe key.

I'll get it down eventually, just not enjoying the new mechanics.
 

PapaPetro

Guest
aZOtpGE.jpeg
5dQBo6J.png

A manly salute.
rating_salute.gif
 

PapaPetro

Guest
So if this game does well, does that mean they'll start making more Gundam games again?
Really jonzing for a new Gihren's Greed game...

I miss the boxy late 1970s mecha designs:
dQajB20.png
 

jaekl

Educated
Patron
Joined
May 1, 2023
Messages
992
Location
Canada
Just bought this game on PS5, got to the Balteus fight, really annoyed, got creamed many times.

I guess what annoys me is that the game seems to want you to rely so heavily on the roadie run booster mode and the auto tracking sword attack on boss fights to do any damage, jesus christ, this is nothing like OG AC. Narrative headgirl literally says you have to break the pulse shield "to do any meaningful damage."

Missing my strafe key.

I'll get it down eventually, just not enjoying the new mechanics.

Thanks to the hard work of these posters a couple of pages ago, I was able to dump the gay ass sword and shoot all my enemies with guns like a civilized person while floating around like a drone, skidding in circles or bunny hopping.

Okay I'm back to playing this robot game where you stab helicopters, what's the equivalent of Havel's + Greatshield + Greatsword in this as far as making the game extremely easy?
Get quad legs, slap on the generator for 416k, equip plasma rifles on both hands, equip big laser rifles for each shoulder, go to town.

Okay I'm back to playing this robot game where you stab helicopters, what's the equivalent of Havel's + Greatshield + Greatsword in this as far as making the game extremely easy?
small tank legs/quad legs, dual lazorz/songbirds/stuns on shoulder, dual chainguns/zimmermans/bazookas in hands


I don't remember which one balteus is but some combo of those weapons will kill him.
 

Lyric Suite

Converting to Islam
Joined
Mar 23, 2006
Messages
56,812
Just bought this game on PS5, got to the Balteus fight, really annoyed, got creamed many times.

I guess what annoys me is that the game seems to want you to rely so heavily on the roadie run booster mode and the auto tracking sword attack on boss fights to do any damage, jesus christ, this is nothing like OG AC. Narrative headgirl literally says you have to break the pulse shield "to do any meaningful damage."

Missing my strafe key.

I'll get it down eventually, just not enjoying the new mechanics.

I used the sword heavily on AC1, so for me this is just the same old mechanic lul:



Literally completed all the arena fights in AC1 and its expansions like this, so this for me feels like the most natural thing in the world.

BTW don't mind me trying to hit his front shield with the sword, i was checking out to see if any damage could go through at all, but guess he is just invulnerable from the front. This boss was just has easy as the Helicopter. Still waiting for the Sekiro-like stuff.
 
Last edited:

Nathir

Liturgist
Joined
Aug 3, 2017
Messages
1,102
Just bought this game on PS5, got to the Balteus fight, really annoyed, got creamed many times.

I guess what annoys me is that the game seems to want you to rely so heavily on the roadie run booster mode and the auto tracking sword attack on boss fights to do any damage, jesus christ, this is nothing like OG AC. Narrative headgirl literally says you have to break the pulse shield "to do any meaningful damage."

Missing my strafe key.

I'll get it down eventually, just not enjoying the new mechanics.

I just beat Balteus yesterday. I replaced the sword first chance I got, and was using Shotgun + base rifle in the hands, and laser cannon + base missile launcher on the shoulders. I was wiping for like an hour, probably died around 10 times. I thought my build sucked but the last try I completely dumpstered him and still had 1 heal remaining. The key to the fight is that when you deplete his shield he becomes vulnerable. And you can actually stagger him again before his shield comes up again. If you do that you can get him to 50-60% and he does the explosion shield recharge. And then if you deplete his shield and stagger him again he is already dead. So you don't have to remove shield 4 times, only 2 times. Just make sure your weapons are reloaded before you deplete the shield.
 

As an Amazon Associate, rpgcodex.net earns from qualifying purchases.
Back
Top Bottom