Auction House Online: The Game (Diablo 3) is a MASSIVE decline

[sea]

I'm in act 3 and having fun. Unfortunately judging by the fact that I'm getting achievements for finishing dialogues with different characters, it seems like act 4 will be super short and shitty, just like Diablo II. Kind of annoying, I was hoping act 4 would be just as lengthy as the others, but it seems like they ran out of money/original ideas/etc. or wanted to save stuff for future expansions.

Truth be told I would have enjoyed maybe 5 acts that were slightly shorter. Act 2 was pretty good but act 1 got monotonous very quickly and had way too much stuff completely disconnected from the story... act 3 is decent but it seems very linear in comparison to the others, no exploration so far. I think more locations to see rather than a few additional tilesets would have really helped break things up better. They went to a lot of trouble expanding the lore and we see very little of it.

If I have one big complaint with the game outside of mechanics and story, it's the way it drags you from one place to the next. Diablo, for me, was always about the feeling of being alone, whether that's in strange and hostile lands or in dungeons and caves. There's some of that in Diablo III, but there are too many cutscenes, scripted sequences and too much character interaction for my tastes. The size of the world is also such that I don't really feel like I'm trekking into dangerous, unexplored realms of a very deadly world. In Diablo II, all the really dangerous and horrible stuff happened far, far from town, in places no sane person would ever go, and it gave a much better sense of impending doom.

The feel really is very similar to an action game, not an RPG. The fact that you can't go between acts within the same game, the lack of branching paths, etc., they honestly probably wouldn't have lost much to just arrange things in a typical mission-to-mission structure. I really liked stumbling upon random dungeons/quests/etc. in the open wilderness (especially in act 3 of Diablo II) and that seems almost entirely gone once you get past act 1.

Also here's an IRC conversation where I ramble on about the game mechanics to myself.

Spoiler

<eric> also the game feels too cold and manipulative for me.
<GDwarf> What's really sad is that since people are putting up with it, 'cause it's Blizzard, everyone else will do it
<GDwarf> And people won't complain
<eric> I mean in terms of mechanics.
<GDwarf> 'Cause they already put up with it
<eric> the loot treadmill is just a bit too obvious.
<eric> the presentation of everything is a bit too meta.
<GDwarf> If this doesn't go bad fast, it's going to become the de facto standard
<eric> like YOU BEAT X QUEST, NOW YOU GET TOWN PORTAL/CRAFTING/EPIC MOUNT/ETC. for no reason.
<GDwarf> Until a really big title completely crashes and burns
<eric> and then there's the combat.
<GDwarf> Which will take at least long enough for an entire generation of games to be unplayable after the publishers don't want to support them anymore
<eric> which mechanically speaking is... too simple.
<eric> at least right now.
<eric> everything is a function of DPS.
<eric> which is a direct result of two things.
<GDwarf> Unusual for a Diablo title
<GDwarf> But fits with how they coded WoW
<eric> a) your weapon and b) your primary attribute.
<eric> b) is of course influenced only by gear.
<eric> because there is no way to influence attributes otherwise.
<eric> except leveling which happens automagically.
<eric> and I mean, it works.
<eric> but it's too... obvious
<eric> and seeing stuff like "deals 200% of DPS as cold damage" is weird for a skill.
<GDwarf> Very WoW-esque, then
<eric> again, I understand how it works, and using percentages is actually good because it avoids the problem of having to balance every level of every skill etc.
<eric> but then you get into gameplay.
<eric> and the "flow" is very... I don't know
<eric> it's not really fun.
<eric> it seems more designed to keep you occupied.
<eric> as in.
<eric> staying alive is basically about a few things.
<eric> (since taking damage is unavoidable for the most part)
<eric> a) protection skills/spells
<eric> b) health orbs
<eric> c) healing potions
<eric> and the cooldowns of each of these seem balanced with enemy output specifically to make sure you are always going to be using one of the above.
<eric> and being too slow or mis-timing usually results in death
<eric> and again, they all kind of fit together in such a way that you are always mashing keys in sequence.
<eric> but it's not really fun, as I said, just... it's stuff to do.
<eric> it's not tactical at all once you've selected the right ability load-out.
<eric> (I refuse to call the builds, they're Call of Duty kits)
<eric> I also totally refuse to believe they couldn't have made manually assigning attributes work.
<eric> and in fact the lack of that really hurts customization more than they probably realized.
<eric> it's not just about "I can make numbars go up!!1"
<eric> it's also about things like, say.
<eric> I'm playing a Wizard. you could set up attributes like this:
<eric> 1) strength determines equipment I can wear and how fast I can move (heavier armor = slower movement)
<eric> 2) dexterity determines how quickly I can cast spells and how often I dodge
<eric> 3) vitality can be things like elemental resistances and max health, plus maybe some natural armor
<eric> 4) energy can be mana, mana regeneration, spell damage, etc.
<eric> Blizzard said that in Diablo II those were "broken" because everyone just got the minimums they needed for the best gear and pumped vitality.
<eric> so their solution was to just turn it all into equipment and get rid of the "middleman"
<eric> but that "middleman" could have had way more influence in gameplay if they had actually used their heads.
<eric> but my guess is, that was too complicated for the casual mass audiences who play MMOs.
<eric> so they decided to just go with cooldowns and constant button-mashing rhythm instead.
<eric> and leave the complexity not to planning etc. but to the item slot machine.
<eric> anyway fuck me, I'm a nerd :D

 

[Jasede]

I really agree with the lack of feeling "alone". I sort of miss it, even playing only co-op.
It's nice to be out in the jungle/desert with your bros.

 

[fizzelopeguss]

a few additional tilesets..

 

[Reject_666_6]

The lag, mother of god teh lag...

 

[sea]

Well, okay, there are a lot of them. But a lot of them are minor variations on the same themes, and they wear thin a little too quickly for me. I would have loved to see some genuine jungle, or coast, or astral planes, a city, etc. Instead we get... square, boxy crypts over and over again. In fact I guess more of an issue is the lack of really distinct and interesting "pieces" that make up levels... yes, it's a sewer, but that doesn't mean you can't have *gasp* curved hallways or big open chambers. As much art as there is in the game, I'm still seeing the same old pieces frequently repeat themselves, with lootables in the same places, even on the same floors. Torchlight II is much, much better in this respect.

 

[Stabwound]

I just finished Act 1 hardcore with a friend.

Seriously, play this game in hardcore mode. Killing the act end boss, especially not knowing what to expect, and knowing that we'd be dead permanently if we died made for one of the most exciting experiences I've had in a video game in recent memory. I'm not shitting you, it was nervewracking as hell.

It's going to be painful to lose a character in Nigtmare/Hell/Inferno but I welcome it.

 

[sea]

I just finished Act 1 hardcore with a friend.

Seriously, play this game in hardcore mode. Killing the act end boss, especially not knowing what to expect, and knowing that we'd be dead permanently if we died made for one of the most exciting experiences I've had in a video game in recent memory. I'm not shitting you, it was nervewracking as hell.

It's going to be painful to lose a character in Nigtmare/Hell/Inferno but I welcome it.

Unfortunately there are too many bullshit instadeath things that can happen, especially due to lag. Enemies that leave behind little things that explode after they die, for instance, and are impossible to see if you're a class that happens to spam lots of particle effects etc. I have died probably ten times or more because of that stuff, and I'd hate to lose a hardcore character just to random crap like that.

 

[ArcturusXIV]

Okay, this is odd. For all the whining about "no customization," Codex opinion is pretty positive? Any insight onto how customizable individual characters are from someone who's played it. I whined about runes not being tied into exploration, and skills unlocking automatically, stat removal, so forth, so exactly how customizable are characters beyond weapons and armor?

 

[RK47]

All the customization options are not as effective as spending gold to buy your level of gear in the auction house which is currently underpriced since ppl have no idea of the real value of these low-mid lvl gear that could significantly power you through. Hence...people who didn't and crafted their own shit is still stuck in normal difficulty, while those who blew 10k in AH gear upgrade every 5 levels or so powers through and wondered what is the problem with the slow ones.

Try spending your gold now while it's more valuable. I guarantee you'll power through.

 

[Average Manatee]

One has to wonder whether the item trading will eventually make everything but max level equipment ridiculously cheap. 99% of the players being stuck at max level trying to grind the .001% drop rate equipment and all low level stuff being massively oversupplied. No one would want low end stuff, it would be exceedingly cheap to buy it and then there is literally no reason to even look at drops (the only supposed "customization") until you are in the last difficulty.

Not that this is much different from D2 with muled equipment, but considering that there is now exactly 0 ways to effect character development other than items, just watch as everyone competent uses the exact same builds and equipment sets to power through the early difficulties.

 

[RK47]

Manatee, I suspect the AH would be dry of low-level items in a few months time when everyone is near max level. So those who actually have the gold to spend now, should hoard those lowbie power items to swap between chars. It makes complete sense IMO.

 

[Multi-headed Cow]

jasede's level discrepancy just reminded me that you can't do the old /players 8 trick anymore to sort your grindan out like a true pro gamer because of that online thing

...can you?

No /players 8 so you don't get the increased loot chance by yourself, but on the bright side the difficulty is on par or higher than /players 8 normal by yourself so it's not nearly as mind numbingly easy.

In fact biggest complaint I've got with the game so far (Apart from the DRM) is WAY WAY WAY THE FUCK less phat lewt than D2. Admittedly D2 has the benefit of an expansion and some patches which added more loot, but the number of uniques and set items is quite honestly 10-20 times lower than D2. They're leaning on rares (Yellows) a lot more.

For all the whining about "no customization,"

People saying that are full of bullshitz and r00flers, as mentioned way the fuck back in the thread a few times. Quick summary, turn on "Elective mode" in the options which gives you full control over what skills you put on mouse buttons and keyboard, and lets you take multiple skills from the same "Type". Runes allow for a goodly amount of customization but are tied to levels so you have to play, but this isn't that dissimilar to not having access to infinite skillpoints at early levels in Diablo 2.
Items are nerfed from Diablo 2 from what I've seen. Less class specific benefits, few (To no) skill specific benefits. The stats are enough to keep item whoring satisfying but they seem to have less impact on build than in D2.

 

[Cowboy Moment]

Okay, this is odd. For all the whining about "no customization," Codex opinion is pretty positive? Any insight onto how customizable individual characters are from someone who's played it. I whined about runes not being tied into exploration, and skills unlocking automatically, stat removal, so forth, so exactly how customizable are characters beyond weapons and armor?

Same as with Skyrim - "It's fun.". As for the opinion, it was really negative around free beta weekend. I would assume that only the people who liked it bothered to spend money on it. And since it hasn't been cracked, you won't get any "I got the pirate bay version and holy crap, it's fucking shit" opinions.

In essence, taking piracy out of the picture turns the Codex into every other gaming forum.

 

[sser]

Trying to play this at a hotel.

LOL.

Lag everywhere. Impossible to play. Great single-player action, indeed.

I'm enjoying the game, but this aspect of it is seriously fucked and I will not get over it. I don't even know why a person would even attempt "Hardcore" when a bout of lag could get you killed in a crowd of otherwise harmless monsters.

 

[Black]

Same as with Skyrim - "It's fun."

Good one, but next time try harder.

 

[Cynic]

Why did they ever think this was going to work? This is not an MMO where characters can just repeatedly swing at enemies with no necessary hit reactions or feedback, this is a HECTIC action game with a huge amount of monsters attacking, hitting, dying, exploding, different hit boxes for different abilities etc., It's basically like an online match of Street Fighter, but instead of one on one, it's one to four vs MANY mobs. Even then Capcom's net code does stutter if you are in different countries.

It was a fucking retarded idea and I hope they pay for it, and ultimately cave and offer a patch download to allow people to play with local or global characters.

I'm playing the game, and I'm having some fun, but last night JUST as we were about to get to a cool new area "SERVERS ARE SHUTTING DOWN IN 20 MINUTES" comes up. It's just retarded. On top of this, everytime we load the game up, maps are not explored, all still covered by fog of war. I haven't lost any loot yet, BUT, heaps of people have lost super rare stuff after suddenly being booted before a server write could happen.

It's retarded and there simply isn't a valid argument otherwise. I truly hope this bites them in the ass because it will prevent others from trying to follow suit as everyone did trying to build the next WoW killer, which they never did.

 

[Cowboy Moment]

Same as with Skyrim - "It's fun."

Good one, but next time try harder.

What, am I wrong? The game is mechanically dumbed down, has crappy art direction, awful writing, and always online DRM. You can still enjoy it if the core clickfest gameplay is enough to hold your attention, and apparently it becomes a lot better in coop. So yeah, "it's fun" is the only real reason people can like it, cause otherwise it's all shit.

 

[RK47]

Don't worry Cynic, a gold server pass will be offered to solve the problem.
Joking aside, yes, it's a serious issue, and Blizzard has no excuse. They can't say they're unprepared for this. They've had the same issue when WoW launch, I forgive them for that because it was their first MMO, but Diablo III launching with online only component featuring server side monster generation will require a LOT of servers due to the amount of unit boxes sold.

Not a good time to pile in on the Diablo III lobby.

 

[shihonage]

impossible to see if you're a class that happens to spam lots of particle effects etc..

I'm actually considering using "Low FX" option and seeing if there's less garbage spam on the screen during battles.

 

[Revenant]

Its kinda sad, really.

D1, SC1, Warcraft 2 and 3.

Masterpieces. True classics.

Oh Blizzard, what have you become... ;/

Sadly, the decline has spred far wider than I have suspected... After playing the starter edition I have grasped how dumbed down d3 really is. Really, there is NOTHING LEFT. I'm very glad I didn't buy the game.

Fear not brothers!

Indeed, it seems Path of Exile will be the real Diablo 3.

 

[Black]

Same as with Skyrim - "It's fun."

Good one, but next time try harder.

What, am I wrong? The game is mechanically dumbed down, has crappy art direction, awful writing, and always online DRM. You can still enjoy it if the core clickfest gameplay is enough to hold your attention, and apparently it becomes a lot better in coop. So yeah, "it's fun" is the only real reason people can like it, cause otherwise it's all shit.

Yeah, and I'm calling you full of shit. The game is longer than both D1 and D2 and has better replayability, it's also more difficult than either of them and you'd see that if you got to at least act 2 on normal. Contrary to Diablo 2, you're using 6 skills at once, not 1. The game is relatively well optimised and bug-free, unlike your pathetic example. The co-op aspect also has been improved in comparison to D2 since it's no longer "who can steal the most loot".
As for writing and art-style, I'm not even gonna bother, because if you're looking at those things in a fucking hack 'n slash then you're clearly clueless.

 

[Telengard]

If the writing wasn't important to Blizzard, then they shouldn't include it. If they include it, then it's a part of the entire package, and a thing must be judged on it's entire package. If a game gives me toast, I will judge the makers on their toast-making capabilities.

Likewise art direction. Video games are a visual medium., even dumb hack 'n slashes. If the art direction is mediocre, that's one giant step towards game mediocrity. Mediocrity in no way prevents a thing from being popular, but it does mean that it will be soon be forgotten.

"you just need to turn your brain off and enjoy it" If you keep turning your brain off, one day you're not going be able to turn it back on.

Co-op now is: He who can afford the best loot will outperform everyone else.

 

[waywardOne]

The thing about retards is, they don't know that they're retards.

 

[Whisper]

Yeah, and I'm calling you full of shit. The game is longer than both D1 and D2 and has better replayability, it's also more difficult than either of them and you'd see that if you got to at least act 2 on normal. Contrary to Diablo 2, you're using 6 skills at once, not 1.

Wake-up call: Inferno is already being cleared and by looks of it Inferno will be finished soon.

 

[RK47]

*cuts himself on the edgiest post of the thread*

Goddamn...I need bandages!

 

[Cowboy Moment]

Same as with Skyrim - "It's fun."

Good one, but next time try harder.

What, am I wrong? The game is mechanically dumbed down, has crappy art direction, awful writing, and always online DRM. You can still enjoy it if the core clickfest gameplay is enough to hold your attention, and apparently it becomes a lot better in coop. So yeah, "it's fun" is the only real reason people can like it, cause otherwise it's all shit.

Yeah, and I'm calling you full of shit. The game is longer than both D1 and D2 and has better replayability, it's also more difficult than either of them and you'd see that if you got to at least act 2 on normal. Contrary to Diablo 2, you're using 6 skills at once, not 1. The game is relatively well optimised and bug-free, unlike your pathetic example. The co-op aspect also has been improved in comparison to D2 since it's no longer "who can steal the most loot".
As for writing and art-style, I'm not even gonna bother, because if you're looking at those things in a fucking hack 'n slash then you're clearly clueless.

Should I need to buy it and play through it seven times before I can judge the difficulty? For the record, I randomly tuned in to a stream of two dudes playing through Inferno Act I, and they were mostly standing in place and spamming aoe. So yeah, given that even a bunch of Codexers managed to die in the open beta, I'll take your opinion on the sudden jump in difficulty with a grain of salt. And you know, you use even more skills while soloing in WoW, that should be a game to strike your fancy. Plus, it actually lets you log in, unlike the "optimised" and "bug-free" D3. Skyrim might've been buggy at release, but people could actually play it without having to wait for some fat fuck to lease more server infrastructure.

Honestly, bro, there's no need to get so defensive about this anyway. You can play the game with your friends and enjoy it, won't judge you for it. It's when people try to claim D3 is actually good or an improvement over anything that I get a bit annoyed, since the game is essentially decline given material form.