Eternity Avowed - Obsidian's first person action-RPG in the Pillars of Eternity setting - coming February 18th

[KVVRR]

It's a shame that genuinely good combat barks seem to be so hard to get right. I understand why, you need a strong understanding of the character you're making them for, a character that is interesting enough for them not to sound generic, a writer good enough to be able to make a few sentences that will not be a pain to listen over and over and over and over again too. It's a juggling act which very few seem to get right, at most just decent which is fair enough. Recently I've been trying Valve's new slop Deadlock and the funny thing is that even if that game is on a closed beta and it looks like ASS the amount of situational, character-based combat barks (for the type of game it is) is really astonishing, varying from really niche situations you'd only see happen once every 10 matches to your run of the mill "haha u r ded now"
Yet they're actually pretty damn good. Having the mafioso mobster say "oh great. a fed" when pinging the enemy in-universe glowie or the character that exclusively speaks in japanese struggle to pronounce the names of english characters gives it a lot of charm... but you never really see that kind of variation with combat barks on RPGs. You get the same 3 to 10 lines repeated at naseum, and most of the time they'll be generic. It's understandable, it's a small detail and the coding must be a nightmare, but it does make me wonder why more care isn't being put into something so many players are going to hear for literal hours while playing. The only recent example I can think of is BG3 having unique lines for having companions do special abilities (everyone having their unique berserker scream; gale complaining about being really shit at sneaking for example) but then again those only happen if you go look for them, not on your regular combat encounter.

 

[Alienman]

Even the pin got the SJW skin disease.

 

[Alienman]

Just gameplay:

00:00 Blood Mage Class
21:36 Barbarian Class
48:24 Ranger Class

The green fart spell is MEGA OP. It wrecks enemies, and heals you at the same time.

 

[ERYFKRAD]

I actually got a job because I quoted one of his lines at the interview.

Nope. You can't say something like that and not post the rest of the story for context.

 

[ColonelMace]

It's a shame that genuinely good combat barks seem to be so hard to get right.

I think it's in great part tributary to the overall writing, and specifically the characters themselves.
When your companion is as generic as they go, his barks will tend to be too.
People itt mentioned BG1's barks, I think that's a good example featuring barks which are good specifically because companions were literary barebones. They all filled a d&d trope, nothing more, and barks reflect these well for all of them.
The more pseudo-engineered, for lack of a better term, companions get, the more water downed they'll eventually end up being due to most video games writers not being Chris Avellone.
So by trying to make their companions believable® (who even asked for that) they end up being generic, so are their barks, appearance etc.

People are too timid simply put.

 

[NJClaw]

I actually got a job because I quoted one of his lines at the interview.

Nope. You can't say something like that and not post the rest of the story for context.

It's not that flashy of story. During one of my first interviews, I was struggling with the "attitude questions" part. They were asking me the usual "how do you resolve conflicts / what do you do if you find an obstacle" bullshit, stuff that I hate because I never know what to say. While I was blabbering some generic platitude, I threw in a "spade, non sciarade", the Italian version of "swords, not words" and the engineer (a guy that had 20+ years more than me) that was there for the technical part of the interview immediately picked up on it. He got excited and we started exchanging other memorable quotes and opinions on various quests. He clearly took a liking to me and I got the job despite the previous terrible performance. I'm 99% sure he picked me over the other candidates only for our bonding over BG.

 

[Quillon]

fart spell is MEGA OP. It wrecks enemies, and heals you

realistic and historically accurate

 

[Gargaune]

Don't get me wrong, those lines ARE cringe, but quippy one-liners are at the core of the games that spawned PoE.

Whimsy was fine and even welcome when it was the exception to the rule, used sparingly for comic relief and a spot of contrast both within individual titles and among titles across the entertainment landscape. But now that it's become the rule, that landscape has turned tedious and off-putting.

You could have a BG1 next to your Fallout and your Diablo and your Icewind Dale. And in BG2 (which pointedly "fixed" BG1's tone to a degree), you could have a Minsc next to your Keldorn and your Korgan. But when it's a case of "now Whedon leads, Minscs for EVERYONE!", people kinda get sick of it. "Quirky" is the new gunmetal grey.

 

[Roguey]

How is it meant to be immersive, daunting or compelling when none of the characters take anything seriously

You're bullying a bunch of easily-killed trash mobs. It would be ludonarrative dissonant to treat it like a matter of life or death.

 

[NJClaw]

Don't get me wrong, those lines ARE cringe, but quippy one-liners are at the core of the games that spawned PoE.

Whimsy was fine and even welcome when it was the exception to the rule, used sparingly for comic relief and a spot of contrast both within individual titles and among titles across the entertainment landscape. But now that it's become the rule, that landscape has turned tedious and off-putting.

You could have a BG1 next to your Fallout and your Diablo and your Icewind Dale. And in BG2 (which pointedly "fixed" BG1's tone to a degree), you could have a Minsc next to your Keldorn and your Korgan. But when it's a case of "now Whedon leads, Minscs for EVERYONE!", people kinda get sick of it. "Quirky" is the new gunmetal grey.

You're all acting as if every single character in this godforsaken game will yap like that and I can't understand why. Both PoE games have had a way more serious tone than BG1 and arguably BG2.

 

[sosmoflux]

How is it meant to be immersive, daunting or compelling when none of the characters take anything seriously

You're bullying a bunch of easily-killed trash mobs. It would be ludonarrative dissonant to treat it like a matter of life or death.

Encounters don't need to be treated like life or death, but does the go-to have to be some sort of freakish microcosm of a pride parade? Flaunting your untouchable-ness over a bunch of restrained, mindless bugs? It's boring as fuck. It's something only women and betas could think up or find entertaining.

How about stoicly doing a dirty job that needs doing, or frustration at the waste of time, or suspicion at the easiness, or gratitude for the reprieve, or anything else more interesting than "Woo! Hehe I almost broke a nail on that one! Wazoo!" ad FUCKING nausium everywhere all the time endlessly.

They're taking the scene with Legolas & Gimly counting kills (a small silly moment in an otherwise grim series of events) and making entire casts of characters around it.

 

[Roguey]

You're all acting as if every single character in this godforsaken game will yap like that and I can't understand why. Both PoE games have had a way more serious tone than BG1 and arguably BG2.

First PoE was a Sawyer/Fenstermaker production, then it was a Sawyer/Patel with a noticeable shift towards goofiness. Now it's Patel/Lo. Lo may be a Gen Xer but he's still a clown apparently.

Pros/cons of working with RansomLo again

Pros:
He gives me spa amenities from his hotels
Daily tarot readings
Shit talking

Cons:
Every time we get in a room to review our work he immediately goes, “oof, this is rough. Pretty bad not gonna lie. Terrible”

Ondra's titties! The official Avowed Yatzli Cosplay Guide is now available to download. The guide includes information about our Orlan wizard companion and her detailed character model.

Saluting the colleague who wrote this legendary catchphrase that is already the most quoted line of dialogue in Avowed months before ship - and who only needed two words to do it.

Additionally, they've shown all four companions and they all seem to be jokey. They're also all mandatory in the story at some point.

Encounters don't need to be treated like life or death, but does the go-to have to be some sort of freakish microcosm of a pride parade? Flaunting your untouchable-ness over a bunch of restrained, mindless bugs? It's boring as fuck. It's something only women and betas could think up or find entertaining.

How about stoicly doing a dirty job that needs doing, or frustration at the waste of time, or suspicion at the easiness, or gratitude for the reprieve, or anything else more interesting than "Woo! Hehe I almost broke a nail on that one! Wazoo!" ad FUCKING nausium everywhere all the time endlessly.

They're taking the scene with Legolas & Gimly counting kills (a small silly moment in an otherwise grim series of events) and making entire casts of characters around it.

These are the stylistic preferences of most younger millennials and zoomers.

 

[Gargaune]

You're all acting as if every single character in this godforsaken game will yap like that and I can't understand why.

I guess it's because it would fit with the general trend in overall artistic direction in entertainment nowadays. I've harped on this at length, but triviality appears to be the zeitgeist covering everything from visual to audio and narrative direction, and it's why I start with negative expectations of new titles. Sure, you can still find individual counterexamples, but that's where the dominant "groove" seems to be.

 

[Fedora Master]

A drab uninspired setting won't be made better by cringe quippy humor.

 

[NJClaw]

Additionally, they've shown all four companions

Wait, four companions? FOUR? God, this is going to be a trainwreck.

I guess it's because it would fit with the general trend in overall artistic direction in entertainment nowadays. I've harped on this at length, but triviality appears to be the zeitgeist covering everything from visual to audio and narrative direction, and it's why I start with negative expectations of new titles. Sure, you can still find individual counterexamples, but that's where the dominant "groove" seems to be.

We're definitely not playing the same videogames then. In the last 6 years, these are the games that won The Game Award GOTY: God of War, Sekiro, The Last of Us 2, It Takes Two, Elden Ring, and Baldur's Gate 3. Setting aside It Takes Two since that's a very peculiar game, BG3 is the only "non serious" one among them... and, I mean, we're talking about Larian. What you're saying doesn't apply to any of the other titles. And among the nominations there were Alan Wake 2, God of War Ragnarok, Resident Evil 4, Resident Evil Village, Ghost of Tsushima, Death Stranding, and Red Dead Redemption 2.

 

[luj1]

Kai, while fighting a bunch of skeletons
"Point for you!"
"That's one for us!"
"Who's ready for more?"

Some witless millennial ChatGPT'd these AI barks 100%

If there's one thing I can't stand about modern gaming it's this insufferable compulsion to make everything a dumb joke

Part of the global infantilization of society

 

[Roguey]

Additionally, they've shown all four companions

Wait, four companions? FOUR? God, this is going to be a trainwreck.

I don't follow. Avellone has spoken about how it's better to have a smaller, more reactive cast in an RPG than a large one. All these guys are also important to the main plot and it'd get a bit unwieldy to increase that number.

I guess it's because it would fit with the general trend in overall artistic direction in entertainment nowadays. I've harped on this at length, but triviality appears to be the zeitgeist covering everything from visual to audio and narrative direction, and it's why I start with negative expectations of new titles. Sure, you can still find individual counterexamples, but that's where the dominant "groove" seems to be.

We're definitely not playing the same videogames then. In the last 6 years, these are the games that won The Game Award GOTY: God of War, Sekiro, The Last of Us 2, It Takes Two, Elden Ring, and Baldur's Gate 3. Setting aside It Takes Two since that's a very peculiar game, BG3 is the only "non serious" one among them... and, I mean, we're talking about Larian. What you're saying doesn't apply to any of the other titles. And among the nominations there were Alan Wake 2, God of War Ragnarok, Resident Evil 4, Resident Evil Village, Ghost of Tsushima, Death Stranding, and Red Dead Redemption 2.

God of War is written like a Marvel movie with Mimir and the two blacksmith brothers.

It's more of an early Millennial thing, and it was only ever prominent on shithole sites like Tumblr and Resetera. Incidentally, that's where most of these writers came from.

Games are written by elder Millennials now, but these people grew up playing games in the 90s and 00s. The audience for Avowed is people born between 1995-2005 more or less.

Nearly 20 years ago we had people who were pushing 30 when Baldur's Gate 2 was released dismissing it as silly crap for teenagers (which it was) even though the people who wrote it were also roughly the same age https://rpgcodex.net/forums/threads...it-but-derp-roads-killed-it.38622/post-976840 Most mainstream games are made for the eternal young person.

 

[Gargaune]

We're definitely not playing the same videogames then. In the last 6 years, these are the games that won The Game Award GOTY: God of War, Sekiro, The Last of Us 2, It Takes Two, Elden Ring, and Baldur's Gate 3. Setting aside It Takes Two since that's a very peculiar game, BG3 is the only "non serious" one among them... and, I mean, we're talking about Larian. What you're saying doesn't apply to any of the other titles. And among the nominations there were Alan Wake 2, God of War Ragnarok, Resident Evil 4, Resident Evil Village, Ghost of Tsushima, Death Stranding, and Red Dead Redemption 2.

Cartoon stylisation, baroque detailing, strident colour palettes, quippy dialogue and wacky characterisation, playful audio jingles etc. - the same Marvel formula that's been sadly dominant in action cinema is recognisable in videogame trends, and a cursory skim over E3-style industry exhibitions shows a deluge of titles ticking many of those boxes, if not all at once. For every Elden Ring, there's a handful of Redfalls. Listing a bunch of individual counterexamples, however prominent, isn't helpful since I'm arguing it's a widespread aesthetic, not the exclusive one, and the fact that we also had games like Sacrifice and Citizen Kabuto didn't mean we were wrong to get sick of gunmetal grey and oversized pauldrons through the 2000s.

You asked why people seem to be so pessimistic about Avowed's presentation and I gave you my reason - because what I've seen so far tracks with a general trend in artistic sensibility which I dislike and has been making the rounds in the industry for some time now, so I expect the full package. You can't imagine I'm insane enough to start compiling an Excel sheet to argue this point (I'm sure there's some around here, but I'm not one of 'em), so if you choose to believe I'm hallucinating, that's your call, but the simple fact that it's a recurring topic should suggest that it's a more pervasive impression.

 

[Thalstarion]

It all comes down to immersion. I want to be immersed in a setting. If there's meant to be a threat to face, then I want that threat to be intimidating and a healthy challenge not just mechanically when it comes to the actual combat but the way in which the story revolves around a particular foe.

There's a big difference between a side quest with an incompetent thief who nobody takes seriously and every single foe being treated as no big deal and hit with constant quips. I just loathe that style, especially with how overused it is at present and each and every time it waters down a setting and erodes away any grit or depth.

 

[NJClaw]

God of War is written like a Marvel movie with Mimir and the two blacksmith brothers.

Come on, having a couple of comic relief characters can't be enough to invalidate a game. I can't speak for Ragnarok, but the first God of War has a very serious atmosphere all around and doesn't resonate with what we're complaining about here.

Cartoon stylisation, baroque detailing, strident colour palettes, quippy dialogue and wacky characterisation, playful audio jingles etc. - the same Marvel formula that's been sadly dominant in action cinema is recognisable in videogame trends, and a cursory skim over E3-style industry exhibitions shows a deluge of titles ticking many of those boxes, if not all at once. For every Elden Ring, there's a handful of Redfalls. Listing a bunch of individual counterexamples, however prominent, isn't helpful since I'm arguing it's a widespread aesthetic, not the exclusive one, and the fact that we also had games like Sacrifice and Citizen Kabuto didn't mean we were wrong to get sick of gunmetal grey and oversized pauldrons through the 2000s.

You asked why people seem to be so pessimistic about Avowed's presentation and I gave you my reason - because what I've seen so far tracks with a general trend in artistic sensibility which I dislike and has been making the rounds in the industry for some time now, so I expect the full package. You can't imagine I'm insane enough to start compiling an Excel sheet to argue this point (I'm sure there's some around here, but I'm not one of 'em), so if you choose to believe I'm hallucinating, that's your call, but the simple fact that it's a recurring topic should suggest that it's a more pervasive impression.

I'm not saying that this "trend in artistic sensibility" doesn't exist. I'm playing Shadow Gambit right now and after 5 hours I'm already tired of the "funny undead pirate" overused trope. I'm just not convinced that this "trend" is as widespread and ruinous as you're claiming. If I'm living in a protected bubble where I miraculously haven't had to touch anything like that in years, I probably won't be able to identify that as a problem until said bubble explodes. And if the industry and media keep awarding and elevating games that don't follow that trend, then maybe it's not such a relevant trend after all.

But you can't expect me not to laugh when someone with a BALDUR'S GATE profile picture complains about unrealistic combat barks, oh omnipresent authority figure!

 

[Tyranicon]

But you can't expect me not to laugh when someone with a BALDUR'S GATE profile picture complains about unrealistic combat barks, oh omnipresent authority figure!

But Gargaune has a rooster avatar.

I think the combat barks are really just extra helpings of straw on the camel's back at this point.

 

[Roguey]

Come on, having a couple of comic relief characters can't be enough to invalidate a game. I can't speak for Ragnarok, but the first God of War has a very serious atmosphere all around and doesn't resonate with what we're complaining about here.

It's been four years, so I struggle to remember, but at the time I was saying that it was a game written for late Xoomers/elder Millennials (putting me square in the demographic) and not really young people.

A few Millennial-isms did creep in though.

Roguey: My God of Soy experience so far includes a kid using the word "duh" in a sentence and an overly-long fight against an annoying hipster. What a drag it is going back to awful modern American writing

 

[Gargaune]

But you can't expect me not to laugh when someone with a BALDUR'S GATE profile picture complains about unrealistic combat barks, oh omnipresent authority figure!

But Gargaune has a rooster avatar.

I think the combat barks are really just extra helpings of straw on the camel's back at this point.

I suppose it's overexposure leading to oversensitivity, even the little things end up pushing your buttons. It's kinda like you spend all day suffering your neighbour renovating and making a racket, then you head out and someone sneezes on the street and you're all like "FUCK YOU AND YOUR WHORE MOTHER!!"

 

[S.torch]

I'm just not convinced that this "trend" is as widespread and ruinous as you're claiming. If I'm living in a protected bubble where I miraculously haven't had to touch anything like that in years, I probably won't be able to identify that as a problem until said bubble explodes.

Saying that the whole state of culture where everything is deadly stupid, puerile, sarcastic and idiotic it's a trend would be falling short. A real possibility if you're not noticing this if that you're unconsciously ignoring it as a means of mental self-preservation. Which is something I do myself from time to time.

However, the thing has gotten pretty bad. The bubble you're talking about is already exploding. Massive lay-offs, studios shutting down and even journos getting the boot is a thing currently happening. And we may only be seeing the start of it.

 

[Late Bloomer]

Kotaku doing what they do best.

Obsidian’s Blockbuster Avowed Feels Like The Perfect Combination Of First-Person And Classic RPG
The follow-up to Pillars of Eternity finally shows us its RPG muscles

https://kotaku.com/avowed-preview-obsidian-rpg-pillars-eternity-1851631371

Part of the global infantilization of society

Proof

I think that’s likely the most useful bit of information to take away from all this: I exclaimed like an affronted nine-year-old when I realized how long I have to wait to be able to play any more.

These people never play for combat anyways.

The one thing I didn’t have time to get to grips with properly was combat. I managed fine, although I felt slight shame at how many health potions I was glugging, but clearly performing as the rogue when things get close-up is going to take some practice.

Not from the article, but look at this dialogue.