Eternity Avowed - Obsidian's first person action-RPG in the Pillars of Eternity setting - coming February 18th

[Child of Malkav]

Another thing to consider is longevity of how long this will actually be fun to play. Dark Messiah was only 12 hours long, but the endgame was a boring chore to play, it had already worn out its welcome. Stretching that out to dozens of hours?

If the system is fun to use, responsive, you will derive enjoyment from it. Sure you're gonna get bored after a while but that happens with all games no matter the genre or format. Different biomes, levels, enemies, tools, options, approaches will ensure replayability as well. And the open world doesn't need to be massive, but smaller and more dense, vertical and interactive, with shortcuts and interconnected paths. It can be done but all this requires talent and a vision.

 

[S.torch]

First-person combat will never be excellent, specially in fantasy games were you want to use melee. At best it can be decent. First person view is supposed to shine by being more immersive. And avowed with its glowing mushrooms and intrusive UI is very far from being that.

By the way what a joke. They have electricity and guns but not printing press. So much for setting coherency.

 

[luj1]

Unironically posting Mr. Matty Plays tweets.

Infinitron has no shame, he has an agenda.

Anything to promote Obsidian products, like a true fanboy and shill

 

[Silvanus]

I'd love to get an opportunity to talk to Todd Howard, off the record, and ask how disappointed he is that he directed a game where you can slow time to tag a couple of guys with poisoned arrows then summon a fire spirit to finish them off while you engage their buddies in melee, resurrect everyone you just killed with the ritual stone as thralls, lead an undead army against the next group of enemies and then transform into a werewolf to abuse knockdowns while your horde kills the now helpless foes, but everyone either ceaselessly right clicks or stealth snipes and then says the combat is bad.

Nobody bothers to do that because it involves too much sifting through the menus. Should ask Todd why he refuses to do anything about the game's terrible interface despite admitting to using UI mods himself and rereleasing the game several times.

This is one a massive issue with Skyrim, and a demonstration of just how console-oriented TES design has become. Implementing a rudimentary hotkey system would be laughably simple and make the combat less of a snorefest but they never do it because it can't be leveraged on consoles in the same way.

 

[ArchAngel]

Nope. Dark Messiah of Might & Magic and Warhammer vermintide & Darktide disagree. Melee combat is amazing in both games.

DM's combat works because of all the environmental kills, when you're straight up hacking and slashing away it sucks.

Even the most simplistic encounter in Dark Messiah - fighting the most basic enemy type on flat, featureless terrain, as shown in this video - is lightyears more fun than anything we've seen from Avowed.

First of all, I love Dark Messiah of Might & Magic and its combat is anything but amazing, it's jank as hell and kick simulator which is fun but that's not because of its "melee combat". Vermintide is amazing but it's really hard to get that right, apparently even when they are proactively trying to do so since they explicitly stated they took Vermintide as inspiration.

Vermintide is just light and heavy attacks. The melee combat in Dark Messiah isn't perfect, but it's a lot more sophisticated, as different weapons have their own distinct movesets. Add in magic, archery, stealth and use of the environment and you have by far the best first-person fantasy RPG combat system.

The physics-based interactions in Dark Messiah also mean you can replay the same encounter and it will always play out differently.

I hope that video is a joke, guy just swings at air the whole time and enemies fly away lol.
It is perfect feature why FP melee combat sucks in all such games.

 

[frajaq]

Yep, this game is going to be pretty good based on these previews

 

[Roguey]

I hope that video is a joke, guy just swings at air the whole time and enemies fly away lol.
It is perfect feature why FP melee combat sucks in all such games.

I feel that a 1st person perspective will always handicap melee. The biggest problems are low situational awareness (due to the proximity of enemies and the limitations of FoV -- in fact the DMoMM designer admitted that enemies effectively hold back when out of view to deal with this problem), poor readability of your own character's attacks (for the same reason), and poor depth perception (a DMoMM designer admitted that their hit detection effectively "cheats" to help the player).

I sort of view first-person melee like turbine-powered motorcycles. You can make a well-executed turbine-powered motorcycle. Unfortunately, turbines are poorly suited for the sort of use that motorcycles actually see in most applications. DMoMM was the most viscerally satisfying first-person melee I've seen yet, but I found it frustrating to actually play.

Even with the cheating there were times when I would try to stab a downed opponent and only hit ground because it's still finicky.

 

[Cross]

I hope that video is a joke, guy just swings at air the whole time and enemies fly away lol.
It is perfect feature why FP melee combat sucks in all such games.

I feel that a 1st person perspective will always handicap melee. The biggest problems are low situational awareness (due to the proximity of enemies and the limitations of FoV -- in fact the DMoMM designer admitted that enemies effectively hold back when out of view to deal with this problem), poor readability of your own character's attacks (for the same reason), and poor depth perception (a DMoMM designer admitted that their hit detection effectively "cheats" to help the player).

I sort of view first-person melee like turbine-powered motorcycles. You can make a well-executed turbine-powered motorcycle. Unfortunately, turbines are poorly suited for the sort of use that motorcycles actually see in most applications. DMoMM was the most viscerally satisfying first-person melee I've seen yet, but I found it frustrating to actually play.

Even with the cheating there were times when I would try to stab a downed opponent and only hit ground because it's still finicky.

It sounds like you and Sawyer are just bad at playing games. If the game cheats that much to help you, why did you have trouble hitting enemies that were lying motionless on the ground?
Enemies in Dark Messiah attack you from behind all the time. In fact, it's a mechanic enemies utilize, e.g. Vampire Knights make no sound when sprinting, allowing them to sneak up on you.

 

[luj1]

It sounds like you and Sawyer are just bad at playing games.

Pretty much. In fact Soyer's whole design philosophy was based around making the games easier and more accessible - as to not punish the player for the choices they are making

That's why both Pillars games bombed from a design perspective

 

[Infinitron]

 

[Cryomancer]

why FP melee combat sucks in all such games.

But sure, some people will say that is bad cuz no spinning ballet moves... Yes, IDK any first person game with such moves.

M&B First Person cavalry gameplay is so great that even I, the most diehard mage fanboy in Codex love to play...

 

[Tyranicon]

I enjoy Mordhau/Chivalry 2 etc type games, but it's always hilarious how battles devolve into 15 separate 1v1s.

 

[Damned Registrations]

M&B First Person cavalry gameplay is so great

Oh yes, the exciting gameplay of getting killed because a dude with a scythe hit you for 200 damage because of 'physics' despite having a weapon like 2 feet shorter than yours. Jousting in M&B looks really cool but always ends up being random jank as soon as you try to attack anyone using a polearm. In practice you just do slow ridebys with a fucking halberd and feel like you're mowing a lawn.

 

[Infinitron]

Just gameplay:

00:00 Blood Mage Class
21:36 Barbarian Class
48:24 Ranger Class

 

[TheDarkUrge]

Ok, now I'm convinced, Avowed is shaping up to be one of the games ever made.

THIS IS BASICALLY A YOUTUBE COMMENT

 

[SlightlyRadioactive]

Ok, now I'm convinced, Avowed is shaping up to be one of the games ever made.

THIS IS BASICALLY A YOUTUBE COMMENT

It's actually a cry for help in disguise

 

[TwoEdge]

Man, I have a feeling I and whoever is art director in this project would not get along. This decision to make a mushroom-themed world is so ridiculous: fungal caves, sporelike weapons, you are a freaking mushroom godlike with mushroom appendages for chrissakes! I watch these videos and immediately want to puke, it's so unappealing, so ugly. Seems like they wanted to be innovative for innovation's sake and forgot to make something cohesive and aesthetic.

 

[TheDarkUrge]

Man, I have a feeling I and whoever is art director in this project would not get along. This decision to make a mushroom-themed world is so ridiculous: fungal caves, sporelike weapons, you are a freaking mushroom godlike with mushroom appendages for chrissakes! I watch these videos and immediately want to puke, it's so unappealing, so ugly. Seems like they wanted to be innovative for innovation's sake and forgot to make something cohesive and aesthetic.

So you dont like morrowind? Ban he.

 

[TwoEdge]

Man, I have a feeling I and whoever is art director in this project would not get along. This decision to make a mushroom-themed world is so ridiculous: fungal caves, sporelike weapons, you are a freaking mushroom godlike with mushroom appendages for chrissakes! I watch these videos and immediately want to puke, it's so unappealing, so ugly. Seems like they wanted to be innovative for innovation's sake and forgot to make something cohesive and aesthetic.

So you dont like morrowind? Ban he.

I stand corrected, there is a right and a wrong way to depict mushrooms, there.

 

[sosmoflux]

Kai, while fighting a bunch of skeletons
"Point for you!"
"That's one for us!"
"Who's ready for more?"

Some witless millennial ChatGPT'd these AI barks 100%

If there's one thing I can't stand about modern gaming it's this insufferable compulsion to make everything a dumb joke
How is it meant to be immersive, daunting or compelling when none of the characters take anything seriously
I suppose it isn't and that's the point

 

[Tyranicon]

Kai, while fighting a bunch of skeletons
"Point for you!"
"That's one for us!"
"Who's ready for more?"

Some witless millennial ChatGPT'd these AI barks 100%

If there's one thing I can't stand about modern gaming it's this insufferable compulsion to make everything a dumb joke
How is it meant to be immersive, daunting or compelling when none of the characters take anything seriously
I suppose it isn't and that's the point

Ugh, I'm so tired of this garbage. But the artstyle gave it away really. You know what to expect just looking at the graphics.

Realistic combat barks are just an unbroken string of obscenities or smart identification of targets. People who talk like this don't get into fights.

At most, they tweet snide comments over twitter.

 

[sosmoflux]

But the artstyle gave it away really. You know what to expect just looking at the graphics.

You're right, I shouldn't have expected any better

 

[NJClaw]

Kai, while fighting a bunch of skeletons
"Point for you!"
"That's one for us!"
"Who's ready for more?"

Some witless millennial ChatGPT'd these AI barks 100%

If there's one thing I can't stand about modern gaming it's this insufferable compulsion to make everything a dumb joke
How is it meant to be immersive, daunting or compelling when none of the characters take anything seriously
I suppose it isn't and that's the point

"Who wants some?"
"You point, I punch"
"Butt-kicking for goodness!"
"Squeaky wheel gets the kick!"
"Fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice, watch it! I'm huge!"
"Make way evil! I'm armed to the teeth and packing a hamster!"

 

[sosmoflux]

He was the borderline-aspergers comedy-relief peak-Whedon character that nobody picked

He was meant to be a warning, not a guide

 

[NJClaw]

I can't deny the first part, but saying that Minsc was "the character that nobody picked" is such an insane take. He is the most iconic and recognizable character in the entire series. Every person I know IRL who isn't a raging nerd with 5k posts on the Codex loves him. He made into BG3. I actually got a job because I quoted one of his lines at the interview. These are not things that happen for a character that nobody picks.

And I brought him up only because he's the most striking example, but you can pick almost any other character. Do you want me to quote Edwin, Jaheira, Xzar, Xan, Montaron, Alora, Dynaheir, Eldoth, Imoen, Kagain, Khalid, Quayle, Safana, Shar-Teel, Skie, or Tiax?

Don't get me wrong, those lines ARE cringe, but quippy one-liners are at the core of the games that spawned PoE.