Eternity Avowed - Obsidian's first person action-RPG in the Pillars of Eternity setting - coming February 18th

[gothfox]

Mereczowszczyzna

this is actually very readable with cyrillic script - Mieračoŭščyna (Belarusian: Мерачоўшчына, Polish: Mereczowszczyzna).

 

[whydoibother]

Mereczowszczyzna

this is actually very readable with cyrillic script - Mieračoŭščyna (Belarusian: Мерачоўшчына, Polish: Mereczowszczyzna).

Мйерачойщина in Bulgarian. Sounds like either Mierachoy's land, or just "swamp" (мочурище).

 

[gothfox]

maybe its just because Cyrillic script is familiar to me, sometimes i think some slav nations screwed themselves over switching to latin letters peppered with endless diacritics.

 

[S.torch]

It's not about historicity, never was and I have never talked about historicity or "realism".

It was not? You started to talk about the perception of history and then people continued to make arguments about the existence of certain historical objects. And right now you're appealing to historicity saying that if someone use X period like renaissance they should also include every single element of it.

This is a typical appealing to "history" and "realism". Because it is not demanding coherence on the basis of those worlds, is demanding it on the basis of our world.

These places can mix renaissance elements and medieval ones, because is neither, is a fantasy world, in another time, in another place. Of course fantasy can sometimes be closer or farther from history, this is mostly a subject of preference. But if every element needs to match 1 to 1 history, this is just historical fiction (if even). This is self evident.

"Oh, but is has elements from the 15th century, then it should have everything of that period!" Then it's not a fantasy story, it's a freaking chronicle about the 15th century.

That's what was being discussed and that's what you responded to, not that people demanded forgotten realms and didn't get forgotten realms.

The complain here, is literally, that a setting that presented itself like a successor to a Forgotten Realms game, wasn't loyal to the spirit and tone of it.
Guns or anything like that can be a element in fantasy according to preference.

But trying to make a an argument, suggesting that they should be forced in every single fantasy for "historical" accuracy purposes is nonsense. Because it doesn't match the idea of the genre to begin with.

 

[FreeKaner]

It was not? You started to talk about the perception of history and then people continued to make arguments about the existence of certain historical objects. And right now you're appealing to historicity saying that if someone use X period like renaissance they should also include every single element of it.

This is a typical appealing to "history" and "realism". Because it is not demanding coherence on the basis of those worlds, is demanding it on the basis of our world.

These places can mix renaissance elements and medieval ones, because is neither, is a fantasy world, in another time, in another place. Of course fantasy can sometimes be closer or farther from history, this is mostly a subject of preference. But if every element needs to match 1 to 1 history, this is just historical fiction (if even). This is self evident.

"Oh, but is has elements from the 15th century, then it should have everything of that period!" Then it's not a fantasy story, it's a freaking chronic about the 15th century.



The complain here, is literally, that a setting that presented itself like a successor to a Forgotten Realms game, wasn't loyal to the spirit and tone of it.
Guns or anything like that can be a element in fantasy according to preference.

But trying to make a an argument, suggesting that they should be forced in every single fantasy for "historical" accuracy purposes is nonsense. Because it doesn't match the idea of the genre to begin with.

I state again, I am making a critique of arguments given for exclusion of guns, rather than a critique of inclusion of any given elements in whatever combination regardless of historical chronology. The critique being that guns are not befit fantasy, because they violate a setting, by either technological pedantry, by aesthetics, by themes or by coherence. So the example of historical proximity (in reality structural proximity) is towards that argument.

I.E the argument given is that guns don't fit the medieval fantasy setting (the argument given here is that guns are not medieval, thus don't fit the setting). When reality is nothing in the setting is medieval in the first place. Another argument is guns are herald of a type of technological progress that violate the themes of fantasy, this again is false, because common fantasy settings have the structures and technologies already contemporary with presence of guns, sometimes directly in effect of guns.

So here the remaining argument, in pure form, is that guns don't fit medieval fantasy. There being a general preference against guns, generally made with bad, incoherent arguments. What I explained in my original post, which you responded, was that such views are formed out of the perception that the fantasy follows, by chronology, as medieval, then steampunk, and that guns fit the latter rather than former. So that guns don't fantasy because they are industrial, technological, modern, preference against guns being formed out perception that informs these associations. So issue here is one of perception.

If someone said they want to make a setting, and it has technology but preceding and anteceding guns, but they don't like guns for whatever reason, I'd be fine with that. Rather here the problem is a false perception that makes people consider guns unfitting for "medieval fantasy" because of the perception that they are not medieval, that they do not belong in medieval era, and that they herald a progress, justified by some technological pedantry when what they perceive as medieval is not medieval in the first place and already is a mishmash of anything from early medieval to late renaissance or even early modern periods. Guns can be included exactly because there is no historicity or realism already, it is a mishmash that includes systems, structures and technology that antecedes guns.

So I am not making an argument about technological pedantry, historicism or realism, I am making one against those things and to refute those arguments people are making I have to give historical data. Case in point, again, I have never argued against pillars having armors from 9th century to 17th century, despite that being "historically inaccurate". However some people do argue that 16th century armors are fine but 16th century guns are not, because the latter is technological or something.

Moreover I like guns, they should be in any setting that is not historical but rather mishmash of 6th century to 16th century, which is a large part of fantasy settings. Not because it is "historic" but because guns are aesthetic and have good themes associated with them.

 

[Duraframe300]

Now going back through what happened to this in the last half year.

We went from Oblivion with Guns to Outer Worlds with Swords.

Full circle, guys. Full circle.

 

[AwesomeButton]

Pillars of Eternity does seem to take environmental interactivity a bit further than The Outer Worlds too, complete with swimming capabilities.

Can't wait to go for a swim in PoE. This guy didn't even read what he was pasting.

The finished art style is expected to elevate what we saw in The Outer Worlds, though, with a brighter, more lively color palette

Please no. Let him be pasting shit without reading it.

 

[LizardWizard]

Who is the current project lead on Avowed?

 

[Quillon]

Who is the current project lead on Avowed?

Roguey seems confident it is Carrie Patel.

 

[vortex]

Roguey seems confident it is Carrie Patel.

Sawyer is overarching lead on all of the projects so he's on Avowed by default.

 

[Humbaba]

Memes aside, what are the chances that this one will turn out alright? Soyer or not, I liked New Vegas but from what I understand Outer Worlds was a bit gay.

Ha, ok I'm gonna put my amateur Polish-parsing to work on that. It's Gr-zheg-orzsh Br-zhawn-chish-che-kyay-veech.

It's really weird, because when he says it in the clip it doesn't sound that complicated. Like something along the lines of Gregos Brenkitzeziyewich.

 

[Butter]

Memes aside, what are the chances that this one will turn out alright? Soyer or not, I liked New Vegas but from what I understand Outer Worlds was a bit gay.

We can say with certainty that the writing will be terrible. Everything else is speculation, but apparently they lost multiple leads during production, which suggests that there isn't a singular coherent vision for the game.

 

[Harthwain]

Now going back through what happened to this in the last half year.

We went from Oblivion with Guns to Outer Worlds with Swords.

Full circle, guys. Full circle.

They are obviously trying to copy Skyrim's success:

Spoiler

 

[<3sRichardSimmons]

Roguey seems confident it is Carrie Patel.

Sawyer is overarching lead on all of the projects so he's on Avowed by default.

He’s stated that he is just periodically giving feedback on design docs and game builds. He’s not directing anything on Avowed and is as far removed from the project as he gets in his current position.

 

[Cross]

Roguey seems confident it is Carrie Patel.

Sawyer is overarching lead on all of the projects so he's on Avowed by default.

He’s stated that he is just periodically giving feedback on design docs and game builds. He’s not directing anything on Avowed and is as far removed from the project as he gets in his current position.

I guess you could say Sawyer is far removed from Avowed...if you ignore the fact that he's responsible for the entire setting, history, lore and linguistics of the game.

 

[mediocrepoet]

I guess you could say Sawyer is far removed from Avowed...if you ignore the fact that he's responsible for the entire setting, history, lore and linguistics of the game.

His work is mwgnificênt!

 

[S.torch]

I.E the argument given is that guns don't fit the medieval fantasy setting

No. I was explicit and clear that having guns or not having guns in fantasy is a matter of preference.

Before that, this discussion started with complains about guns. These complains had a point, because these people were not promised a "medieval fantasy". Something that is nebulous and vague. They were promised a successor to Baldur's Gate, something specific. With a setting that didn't have guns and didn't have the same tone.

The argument is as simple as they were promised x genre, and were given y genre.

All your said after, is irrelevant. Because that was never the point. But that people who are promised something in tone and setting, and are not delivered with it, can be understandably upset.

If guns can be in medieval fantasy or anything like that, it's completely subjective. And because of that, is normal that some people like them, and some people do not.
That's why since the beginning I already said that this was never about historic perception, because it is not. Yet you keep repeating the same over and over.

Moreover I like guns, they should be in any setting that is not historical but rather mishmash of 6th century to 16th century, which is a large part of fantasy settings.

I'm a "neutral" to guns, I'm not for them or against them, it depends for me.
But seeing how quick to push them (in specific subgenres) some people are, is not strange that other people get alarms when they are going to be included in what was labelled like a more traditional fantasy.

 

[<3sRichardSimmons]

Roguey seems confident it is Carrie Patel.

Sawyer is overarching lead on all of the projects so he's on Avowed by default.

He’s stated that he is just periodically giving feedback on design docs and game builds. He’s not directing anything on Avowed and is as far removed from the project as he gets in his current position.

I guess you could say Sawyer is far removed from Avowed...if you ignore the fact that he's responsible for the entire setting, history, lore and linguistics of the game.

? But he’s not (excepting linguistics)?

The rest was mostly Fenstermaker and Ziets.

 

[FreeKaner]

No. I was explicit and clear that having guns or not having guns in fantasy is a matter of preference.

This may be what you were talking about but not what I was, which was in the post saying that "save the guns for a steampunk setting". Which is what I referred to. You are the one that responded to me as you might remember. You are particularly insisting something about the game not being a forgotten realms clone when that's neither what the post said nor what I responded to. You especially accused me about historicism and technology pedantry.

We are going in circles now and I don't see any more reason to repeat what's already said.

 

[Mebrilia the Viera Queen]

I.E the argument given is that guns don't fit the medieval fantasy setting

No. I was explicit and clear that having guns or not having guns in fantasy is a matter of preference.

Before that, this discussion started with complains about guns. These complains had a point, because these people were not promised a "medieval fantasy". Something that is nebulous and vague. They were promised a successor to Baldur's Gate, something specific. With a setting that didn't have guns and didn't have the same tone.

The argument is as simple as they were promised x genre, and were given y genre.

All your said after, is irrelevant. Because that was never the point. But that people who are promised something in tone and setting, and are not delivered with it, can be understandably upset.

If guns can be in medieval fantasy or anything like that, it's completely subjective. And because of that, is normal that some people like them, and some people do not.
That's why since the beginning I already said that this was never about historic perception, because it is not. Yet you keep repeating the same over and over.

Moreover I like guns, they should be in any setting that is not historical but rather mishmash of 6th century to 16th century, which is a large part of fantasy settings.

I'm a "neutral" to guns, I'm not for them or against them, it depends for me.
But seeing how quick to push them (in specific subgenres) some people are, is not strange that other people get alarms when they are going to be included in what was labelled like a more traditional fantasy.

Not to spoil your day but forgotten realms has indeed guns in form of flintlocks and muskets even if is more a Lantan thing.

 

[Cross]

Roguey seems confident it is Carrie Patel.

Sawyer is overarching lead on all of the projects so he's on Avowed by default.

He’s stated that he is just periodically giving feedback on design docs and game builds. He’s not directing anything on Avowed and is as far removed from the project as he gets in his current position.

I guess you could say Sawyer is far removed from Avowed...if you ignore the fact that he's responsible for the entire setting, history, lore and linguistics of the game.

? But he’s not (excepting linguistics)?

The rest was mostly Fenstermaker and Ziets.

Fenstermaker wrote the story. The worldbuilding was done by Sawyer.

https://jesawyer.tumblr.com/post/188767385726/hey-josh-what-was-the-worldbuilding-process-like

Hey Josh. What was the worldbuilding process like on Pillars of Eternity?

This could be a very long answer, but I’ll try to be succinct. In my mind, there have been three worldbuilding phases for Eora. The first one occurred during the Kickstarter for Project Eternity. The second occurred during the development of Pillars of Eternity. The third was during Deadfire.

The first phase was quite ad hoc and a little unfocused due to the extremely fast pace of the Kickstarter campaign. In that phase, the goals were largely to create something that felt generally comfortable and familiar for people who wanted a Baldur’s Gate-style experience. I would not consider it unfair if people thought of this as cynical or uninspired; I was specifically trying to meet general audience expectations. So we had folk (humans), elves, and dwarves, but also godlike (aesthetically genasi-esques), orlans, and aumaua.

There were a few shreds of integrity in me at that point, because I didn’t want to have an “evil” player race like orcs or to directly take hobbits/halflings from Tolkien.

I also pulled at various bits of historical inspiration, e.g. the Drummer of Niklashausen for St. Waidwen. I thought it would be interesting (to me, at least) to push the setting toward the equivalent of Earth’s 16th century in terms of technology and social expansion. So we had trans-oceanic exploration and colonization, firearms, mercantilism, and a lot of cross-cultural contact and conflict. Aedyran, which is effectively contemporary English, was conceived as a colonial blend of two imperial/trade languages (Eld Aedyran/Old English and Vailian/Italian-French-Occitan) with a local language (Glanfathan/Cornish-Welsh).

The second phase of worldbuilding was more structured, though I still had to deal with whatever decisions I had hastily made during the Kickstarter. Eric Fenstermaker (who wrote the main story for Pillars 1) and I worked through the implications of the Hollowborn Crisis on social trends and daily life in the Dyrwood. This phase of development was also more fundamentally materialistic in its methodology, though not enough in retrospect. I would have liked to have put more thought into the relationships between the various erldoms, their communities, and the duc in Defiance Bay. The disconnect between rural and urban Dyrwoodans does largely come out of this materialistic approach: rural communities are affected by the Hollowborn Crisis more than urban communities. This is both because more children were affected (due to proximity to the machines Thaos was using) and because rural communities’ labor pools were more dependent on local family members.

There were also certain limits I placed on technology during this phase, like limiting the ability to teleport material (including people) due to the incredible effect that would have on so many aspects of trade and culture. Its inclusion in Deadfire was only allowed after a lot of discussions of its limitations (e.g., requiring a Watcher linking adra pillars and the use of massive, expensive Vailian technology).

 

[<3sRichardSimmons]

Roguey seems confident it is Carrie Patel.

Sawyer is overarching lead on all of the projects so he's on Avowed by default.

He’s stated that he is just periodically giving feedback on design docs and game builds. He’s not directing anything on Avowed and is as far removed from the project as he gets in his current position.

I guess you could say Sawyer is far removed from Avowed...if you ignore the fact that he's responsible for the entire setting, history, lore and linguistics of the game.

? But he’s not (excepting linguistics)?

The rest was mostly Fenstermaker and Ziets.

Fenstermaker wrote the story. The worldbuilding was done by Sawyer.

https://jesawyer.tumblr.com/post/188767385726/hey-josh-what-was-the-worldbuilding-process-like

Hey Josh. What was the worldbuilding process like on Pillars of Eternity?

This could be a very long answer, but I’ll try to be succinct. In my mind, there have been three worldbuilding phases for Eora. The first one occurred during the Kickstarter for Project Eternity. The second occurred during the development of Pillars of Eternity. The third was during Deadfire.

The first phase was quite ad hoc and a little unfocused due to the extremely fast pace of the Kickstarter campaign. In that phase, the goals were largely to create something that felt generally comfortable and familiar for people who wanted a Baldur’s Gate-style experience. I would not consider it unfair if people thought of this as cynical or uninspired; I was specifically trying to meet general audience expectations. So we had folk (humans), elves, and dwarves, but also godlike (aesthetically genasi-esques), orlans, and aumaua.

There were a few shreds of integrity in me at that point, because I didn’t want to have an “evil” player race like orcs or to directly take hobbits/halflings from Tolkien.

I also pulled at various bits of historical inspiration, e.g. the Drummer of Niklashausen for St. Waidwen. I thought it would be interesting (to me, at least) to push the setting toward the equivalent of Earth’s 16th century in terms of technology and social expansion. So we had trans-oceanic exploration and colonization, firearms, mercantilism, and a lot of cross-cultural contact and conflict. Aedyran, which is effectively contemporary English, was conceived as a colonial blend of two imperial/trade languages (Eld Aedyran/Old English and Vailian/Italian-French-Occitan) with a local language (Glanfathan/Cornish-Welsh).

The second phase of worldbuilding was more structured, though I still had to deal with whatever decisions I had hastily made during the Kickstarter. Eric Fenstermaker (who wrote the main story for Pillars 1) and I worked through the implications of the Hollowborn Crisis on social trends and daily life in the Dyrwood. This phase of development was also more fundamentally materialistic in its methodology, though not enough in retrospect. I would have liked to have put more thought into the relationships between the various erldoms, their communities, and the duc in Defiance Bay. The disconnect between rural and urban Dyrwoodans does largely come out of this materialistic approach: rural communities are affected by the Hollowborn Crisis more than urban communities. This is both because more children were affected (due to proximity to the machines Thaos was using) and because rural communities’ labor pools were more dependent on local family members.

There were also certain limits I placed on technology during this phase, like limiting the ability to teleport material (including people) due to the incredible effect that would have on so many aspects of trade and culture. Its inclusion in Deadfire was only allowed after a lot of discussions of its limitations (e.g., requiring a Watcher linking adra pillars and the use of massive, expensive Vailian technology).

It seems you are correct, my apologies for the misinformation.

 

[Haba]

So when are they announcing the cancellation?

 

[AwesomeButton]

With Microsoft backing development, they will release it.

 

[Morgoth]

This is running on Unreal 4 in the sleep-inducing PoE setting. Does anyone really think this will anything but a mediocre slog?