Eternity Avowed - Obsidian's first person action-RPG in the Pillars of Eternity setting - coming Fall 2024

[AwesomeButton]

Deadfire

Deadfire is in the rough gem category, critical as I am of it. I don't know if you ever brought yourself to playing it without approaching it with codex preconceptions, but I can recommend doing that.

 

[Zed Duke of Banville]

the loss of Chris Avellone alone was a huge blow

I'd have to question that. In retrospect, and from what leaks I've seen here, my reading is that he was already sidelined in New Vegas, and then completely sidelined after Alpha Protocol.

Alpha Protocol was released four-and-a-half months before Fallout: New Vegas, which itself was followed by four expansions, with Chris Avellone as the project director for three of them: Dead Money, Old World Blues, and Lonesome Road. Chris Avellone was only sidelined on F:NV because he had already been tasked with bringing Alpha Protocol to completion.

However, it does appear that, as a consequence of Alpha Protocol being a commercial flop but Fallout: New Vegas a considerable success, FU decided to sideline Chris Avellone on future game projects, while placing Obsidian's future in the hands of his new golden boy, Josh Sawyer, with predictable results.

 

[AwesomeButton]

the loss of Chris Avellone alone was a huge blow

I'd have to question that. In retrospect, and from what leaks I've seen here, my reading is that he was already sidelined in New Vegas, and then completely sidelined after Alpha Protocol.

Alpha Protocol was released four-and-a-half months before Fallout: New Vegas, which itself was followed by four expansions, with Chris Avellone as the project director for three of them: Dead Money, Old World Blues, and Lonesome Road. Chris Avellone was only sidelined on F:NV because he had already been tasked with bringing Alpha Protocol to completion.

However, it does appear that, as a consequence of Alpha Protocol being a commercial flop but Fallout: New Vegas a considerable success, FU decided to sideline Chris Avellone on future game projects, while placing Obsidian's future in the hands of his new golden boy, Josh Sawyer, with predictable results.

With a difference of a few of months it doesn't matter that much which was before which. I remember both are released in 2010. So, the correction is that Avellone was already sidelined during FNV's development.

 

[AwesomeButton]

FU decided to sideline Chris Avellone on future game projects, while placing Obsidian's future in the hands of his new golden boy, Josh Sawyer, with predictable results

BTW, I've had a theory about this, which I'll never be able to confirm, but I think it makes good sense.

Josh's professional biography has went in such a way that he was lifted into a game dev position by Feargus, or at least with Frargus' blessing. Josh has told the story multiple times, how he taught himself html to make a website for a tatoo studio, and it was html that got him a job at Interplay. Later when he applied for an area designer, he wouldn't have gotten the designer position if it wasn't for some other guy who didn't take the job, Josh was actually less experienced than him.

When Black Isle dissolved, his experience in Midway was quite bad. He came back into relevance as a game dev when he came back into Feargus' fold. And come back he did, by heading FNV.

Given what we know of Feargus' system of values, especially professionally, he has every reason to respect Josh as someone who can get a decent product out in a short timespan. This is a big advantage in any manager's book. And Josh did that repeatedly - IWD2, FNV, PoE.

So I think Feargus and Josh have always been in a sort of a symbiosis - for Feargus Josh is the wiz kid who can cover the results of Feargus' dumb design decisions and meddling. Josh, for his part, probably feels more or less morally indebted to Feargus for his role in his career. What would Josh be doing if it wasn't for Feargus - mend bycicles, be a tatooist, sing in a choir? He had pretty crappy qualifications outside of his DM'ing, ironically.

 

[yes plz]

iirc, Alpha Protocol's development was finished a good six or so months before its release. Sega sat on it waiting for some mythical, golden release window to present itself, and supposedly the development team weren't allowed to do any major changes or additions during that period.

 

[Infinitron]

When Black Isle dissolved, his experience in Midway was quite bad. He came back into relevance as a game dev when he came back into Feargus' fold. And come back he did, by heading FNV.

His first project at Obsidian was salvaging NWN2 OC.

But anyway Sawyer seems to be in a new stage in his career now. He's not working on this thread's game, and I'm not sure he's ever going to work on a hueg AAA game again. So it might not make as much sense to speak of him as the living embodiment of nu-Obsidian anymore.

 

[AwesomeButton]

Yeah, I missed that, but it too works for my theory.

 

[whydoibother]

Is any of those three even involved in Avowed?
Has there even been any major update on Avowed, why is this thread moving all the sudden?

 

[Nano]

iirc, Alpha Protocol's development was finished a good six or so months before its release. Sega sat on it waiting for some mythical, golden release window to present itself, and supposedly the development team weren't allowed to do any major changes or additions during that period.

AP's development stopped in late 2009. FNV was in development for half a year at that point.

 

[Egosphere]

Mask of the Betrayer is better than Torment. You're 15 years late.

I'm not going to argue that Obsidian hasn't made some great games in it's run, as they have. Mask is definitely one of them. So is New Vegas.

My response has more to do with the realization as to what Obsidian has become now. A husk of it's former glory.

Husk of its former glory? That's BioWare.

But Obsidian, going from NWN2 OC in 2006 to Deadfire in 2018? From Dungeon Siege 3 in 2011 to The Outer Worlds in 2019? Eh...

There's been a certain decline and there's been a generational turnover of talent within the company (the loss of Chris Avellone alone was a huge blow), but "husk of its former glory" is too strong an expression. They were never that great in the first place and the culture war stuff is distorting everybody's view of it.

Kotor 2, Mask of the Betrayer and FNV are their standout games released in a six year period. That period ended 12 years ago.

 

[Infinitron]

That's why I said there's been a decline, but now compare that to the company that made Baldur's Gate 2 tripping over their dicks for almost a decade making Mass Effect: Loldromeda and whatever the hell Anthem was.

Obsidian released a pretty complicated isometric RPG just a few years ago and then threw in a surprise turn-based mode post-launch. Like, that's pretty cool! It's not complete sellout husk territory, not yet.

 

[Ryzer]

Obsidian was never good to begin with.

 

[Roguey]

However, it does appear that, as a consequence of Alpha Protocol being a commercial flop but Fallout: New Vegas a considerable success, FU decided to sideline Chris Avellone on future game projects, while placing Obsidian's future in the hands of his new golden boy, Josh Sawyer, with predictable results.

There was an entire thread where Avellone made it clear that he sidelined himself. Feargus wanted nothing more for him to do than just write for their RPGs so they could use "Writing by Chris Avellone!" as a selling point (including lying to Paradox by telling them Tyranny was a Chris Avellone Project) but Chris couldn't deal with Feargus's "notes."

 

[Delterius]

for Feargus Josh is the wiz kid who can cover the results of Feargus' dumb design decisions and meddling.

find yourself someone who loves you as much as feargus won't de-owner josh (in minecraft)

 

[pomenitul]

de-owner

Did we ever figure out whether this is an actual thing that exists?

 

[Delterius]

de-owner

Did we ever figure out whether this is an actual thing that exists?

i'm calling the Victims of Uruk-Hart Foundation ngo. you'll never work in this city again.

 

[S.torch]

Because of perception of history of most people.

It has nothing to do with perception.

People who gave birth to the fantasy genre had a profound knowledge of history and other obscure themes that escape the mind of the modern man and most modern "scholars".
But they were not writing historical narratives, and it was never their intention to do so. They were writing fantasy and their worlds are presented like so.

These tired remarks about how in this or that fantasy world should have this or that "historical" object, method or whatever, are nothing but inane pedantry that pretends to know much but in reality knows very little.

None of that "should" be in, because that's not the point of fantasy as a whole (and in some worlds it even wouldn't have any sense). Of course, there are many other genres like the already mentioned historical fiction, or even subgenres inside fantasy itself that can have these things, but it is not a necessity by any means in the fantasy where nothing of that is their proposition.

 

[Roguey]

de-owner

Did we ever figure out whether this is an actual thing that exists?

Plan ahead during your initial start-up process. Though most business co-ownerships don't begin with intentions of breaking up, you simply cannot forecast what the future will bring to your partnership. Include a buyout plan and exit strategy in your business plan and ownership contracts so that both parties are clear on the requirements for dissolving your partnership.

Avellone came on as a junior partner, so I imagine the terms he signed in the contract were not favorable to him in this regard. They all voted him out and gave him his money for his share in the company.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

Obsidian released a pretty complicated isometric RPG just a few years ago

Well pillars is almost a decade old

and then threw in a surprise turn-based mode post-launch

Oh, you're trolling.
The turn based mode was terribly implemented and pretty trash btw

 

[FreeKaner]

It has nothing to do with perception.

People who gave birth to the fantasy genre had a profound knowledge of history and other obscure themes that escape the mind of the modern man and most modern "scholars".
But they were not writing historical narratives, and it was never their intention to do so. They were writing fantasy and their worlds are presented like so.

We are not talking about old fantasy settings, since they actually are appropriately done but modern interpretations of them or new settings and people's reaction to it. One of the two post-Tolkien fantasy settings, Warhammer, is a very well done fantasy setting that's also appropriately detailed and coherent. It also doesn't shy away from technology. Both logical and thematic coherence, as well as underlying thought-process basis (whether philosophical in nature or certain axioms) being applied clearly are important for fictional settings.

These tired remarks about how in this or that fantasy world should have this or that "historical" object, method or whatever, are nothing but inane pedantry that pretends to know much but in reality knows very little.

None of that "should" be in, because that's not the point of fantasy as a whole (and in some worlds it even wouldn't have any sense). Of course, there are many other genres like the already mentioned historical fiction, or even subgenres inside fantasy itself that can have these things, but it is not a necessity by any means in the fantasy where nothing of that is their proposition.

What "none" are you talking about? Speaking much, vaguely implying a bit and saying nothing. What's it that should not be in and why shouldn't it be in?

 

[AwesomeButton]

Obsidian released a pretty complicated isometric RPG just a few years ago

Well pillars is almost a decade old

and then threw in a surprise turn-based mode post-launch

Oh, you're trolling.
The turn based mode was terribly implemented and pretty trash btw

He meant Deadfire, which is almost 7 4 y.o (how time flies), which is yes, more than a few years. The turn based mode isn't half as bad as D:OS' TB combat, thanks to the ruleset.

 

[IHaveHugeNick]

Come on dude. Most video game companies don't release any good games at all. Old Obsidian had several, so what if there were some duds in the middle too?

Rough gem-era Obsidian: kotor 2, Mask of the Betrayer, Alpha Protocol, New Vegas

Polished turd-era Obsidian: Dungeon Siege III, South Park, Pillars of Eternity, Tyranny, Deadfire, The Outer Worlds, Grounded

Aside from TOW all of these have been enjoyable.

 

[Nano]

South Park isn't even an RPG. Why are people defending this game?

 

[CthuluIsSpy]

South Park isn't even an RPG. Why are people defending this game?

It is if you follow the modern definition of RPG.
Which is basically "I haz levels, iz an ar-pee-gee!"

 

[Flou]

iirc, Alpha Protocol's development was finished a good six or so months before its release. Sega sat on it waiting for some mythical, golden release window to present itself, and supposedly the development team weren't allowed to do any major changes or additions during that period.

The official delay notice came in October and I believe the game was released in May. However I recall that the actual work on the game had stopped even before October and Avellone was quite available to work on FNV.

Development team weren't allow to do any changes at all to the game. This is something that created at least some negativity from the press towards the game, since they were expecting some changes to the game and none were made. Sega just decided to sit on the game and wait for Mass Effect 2 to come out and then release it next to Red Dead Redemption.

I remember Avellone actually tweeted about the Sega's decision not to allow any development to done to the game. He really liked to burn those bridges when he could.