Baldur's Gate #BaldurGate: Siege of Dragonspear

[Dreaad]

Kinda pointless discussion but I always thought Serevok with his dopplegangers just wanted to start a massive war and then sell stuff through his guild to all parties involved, slowly infiltrating everywhere. He kind of epitomized Bahl, as a chaotic evil villain. Irenicus had a plan, gain the powers of a Bahl child, get his revenge, ascend to god hood through the tree and then deal with the other Bahl spawn taking their power. If him and Bodhi had their way he would have a powerful city under his control too.

I guess for me I think the crusade would have been more interesting if she was simply focused on hunting down all the Bahl spawn, maybe her patron secretly being one of them. There was no need to add the random hell elements and a story that has nothing to do with anything. It felt out of place to me. Felt being the key word I guess heh.

 

[ArchAngel]

Kinda pointless discussion but I always thought Serevok with his dopplegangers just wanted to start a massive war and then sell stuff through his guild to all parties involved, slowly infiltrating everywhere. He kind of epitomized Bahl, as a chaotic evil villain. Irenicus had a plan, gain the powers of a Bahl child, get his revenge, ascend to god hood through the tree and then deal with the other Bahl spawn taking their power. If him and Bodhi had their way he would have a powerful city under his control too.

I guess for me I think the crusade would have been more interesting if she was simply focused on hunting down all the Bahl spawn, maybe her patron secretly being one of them. There was no need to add the random hell elements and a story that has nothing to do with anything. It felt out of place to me. Felt being the key word I guess heh.

And how is Durlag's Tower or Werewolf Island connected with the whole Bhaalspawn story?

 

[Dreaad]

It's not. Well except for the very loose doppelganger thread.

 

[Lhynn]

You know, Lawful Stupid is around for a reason.

Spoiler

But we cannot help that they ruined her a bit in the end. I mean, Sarevok was a fucking retard to. He would have started a war with Amn, a place that is a country, not a city state and he would have attracted the more mighty Bhaalspawns that we later see in Throne of Bhaal or even Jon Irenicus to himself. So when he sits there, land locked in a gruesome combat, he get kidnapped by Jon Irenicus while the other spawns wreck whatever resistance his loyalist can offer. Jon Irenicus? Well I guess he was better written but is a bit to damn desperate to get his "revenge". I still think she had an idea, a concept and had her men be loyal to her into the very end. But not being able to warn her of that fucked up elf was annoying. Maybe Jon was smarter and had a concept but Sarevoks idea is as fucked up insane as Caelars. And Caelar had some pretty damn loyal and powerful allies. Like that one The Barghest and his band in the end. It was late and I could not be arsed to kill him and his band, hell was easier.

Most villians are often stupid or far fetched I think. The more elaborate and fucked up ideas they have, the more insane and crazy they sound. Invade hell? Start a war of slaughter so you become a Bhaalspawn? But then the villian that is "lol I just do it cause I can and to spread chaos and evil" is also a really boring and dull concept of douchebag evil.

Sarevok was brilliant actually, he just wasnt a clairvoyant. He had everything to gain if you didnt stop him, as the war he had orchestrated manipulating two of the most powerful groups in an entire kingdom would make him rich beyond belief and very powerful. he wasnt starting a war to become a "bhaalspawn" he was already that, he started a war to become the new god of murder.
John irenicus wasnt better written, in fact the voice acting carries most of the character. He wasnt bad, just another power hungry wizard with a shitty past.
Sarevok was actually the smartest villain of the series and he made a powerplay using more interesting shit than supar powarful magic spells and a supar powarful sister.

 

[Hobo Elf]

My brother started replaying BG1 and kept asking me questions and talking about it. Now reading this thread.. I think it's time for another BG playthrough. Maybe I'll even import my chara from BG1 to BG2 and beat both games with the same char, finally. I'll finish the Pantaloon questline!

 

[Ezrite]

Sarevok was brilliant actually, he just wasnt a clairvoyant. He had everything to gain if you didnt stop him, as the war he had orchestrated manipulating two of the most powerful groups in an entire kingdom would make him rich beyond belief and very powerful. he wasnt starting a war to become a "bhaalspawn" he was already that, he started a war to become the new god of murder.
John irenicus wasnt better written, in fact the voice acting carries most of the character. He wasnt bad, just another power hungry wizard with a shitty past.
Sarevok was actually the smartest villain of the series and he made a powerplay using more interesting shit than supar powarful magic spells and a supar powarful sister.

Mind you, I miss formulated and meant God of Murder. But as said, he would have to fight the much stronger Bhaalspawns out there. I do not really think this is how it works either. I mean, the player can ascend without murdering a shit ton. Also he might be the cause of the war bue is not the one doing the killing. Sarevok is the weakest of all Spawns I say, he is just a guy with a sword and his fathers organisation at his back. I think Caelar Argent is not the worst villian, nor the worst writing in Dragonspear, not even Baldurs Gate. There is plenty of cheesy and bad texts of lines in the game. Like Stoner dudes and Aloe Vera comments in BG1 vanilla.

Could they had a better ending for Caelar than that hell ordeal? Yes, very much so. But minus that the character itself, is to me appealing. It is not a "HA HA! *twirling mustachios* I will conquer the Sword Coast! ANd turn it into a BIG KEEP FOR THE ZHENTARIM! MA HUEAHAHA!" "Why?" "uhh...I don't know".

 

[Lilura]

I just finished it, I liked Caelar Argent, nice to see a non evil villian for once.

She's Aribeth on steroids.

 

[Ezrite]

She's Aribeth on steroids.

Well, that is one way to put it, and she got an army and to not turn into a sniffling bitch cause of her lovers death. She do in the end, achieve her personal goal. Atleast with the way I picked.

 

[Lhynn]

But as said, he would have to fight the much stronger Bhaalspawns out there.

Keeping in mind that he starts out stronger and much more prepared than you do, im sure he would have been fine. Most of the other spawns didnt start out as badasses in any case.
Its implied several times on the sequels, especially on ToB, that you merely took his place in the big picture.

I do not really think this is how it works either. I mean, the player can ascend without murdering a shit ton. Also he might be the cause of the war bue is not the one doing the killing.

His research indicated that using the sacrifices of the war as offering along with his essense would have propeled him to godhood, which is believable, especially considering other humans were depicted as doing something similar to reach godhood themselves. This is written over several books in the game.

Sarevok is the weakest of all Spawns I say, he is just a guy with a sword and his fathers organisation at his back.

What? he could pretty much straight up murder a non optimized parties on the higher difficulties. A lot of groups had to resort to cheese to beat him. also it wasnt his fathers organization, he clawed his way tru the ranks of the iron throne, took over, used and manipulated it, and discarded it when no longer needed. He also had the most capable warriors of the entire territory at his orders, people that had their own organizations. He also had what no other bhaalspawn had, he had nigh unlimited political power, because he actually controlled the iron of an entire region that was going to war (all his plan btw), on both sides of the law.
The whole idea of some sheltered scrub destroying his empire must have never crossed his mind, but hey, thats how great epic stories are written.

I think Caelar Argent is not the worst villian, nor the worst writing in Dragonspear, not even Baldurs Gate. There is plenty of cheesy and bad texts of lines in the game. Like Stoner dudes and Aloe Vera comments in BG1 vanilla.

I actually liked the aloe vera comment, made me chuckle when i was 15, which is what they were aiming for. Beamdog on the other hand was writing suposedly for a 30 yo something audience that loved this games back then, and they show again and again how they misunderstood their own core audience.

Could they had a better ending for Caelar than that hell ordeal? Yes, very much so. But minus that the character itself, is to me appealing. It is not a "HA HA! *twirling mustachios* I will conquer the Sword Coast! ANd turn it into a BIG KEEP FOR THE ZHENTARIM! MA HUEAHAHA!" "Why?" "uhh...I don't know".

The only thing i found appealing about the character is that she had a nice rack.

 

[Ezrite]

Keeping in mind that he starts out stronger and much more prepared than you do, im sure he would have been fine. Most of the other spawns didnt start out as badasses in any case.
Its implied several times on the sequels, especially on ToB, that you merely took his place in the big picture.


His research indicated that using the sacrifices of the war as offering along with his essense would have propeled him to godhood, which is believable, especially considering other humans were depicted as doing something similar to reach godhood themselves. This is written over several books in the game.


What? he could pretty much straight up murder a non optimized parties on the higher difficulties. A lot of groups had to resort to cheese to beat him. also it wasnt his fathers organization, he clawed his way tru the ranks of the iron throne, took over, used and manipulated it, and discarded it when no longer needed. He also had the most capable warriors of the entire territory at his orders, people that had their own organizations. He also had what no other bhaalspawn had, he had nigh unlimited political power, because he actually controlled the iron of an entire region that was going to war (all his plan btw), on both sides of the law.
The whole idea of some sheltered scrub destroying his empire must have never crossed his mind, but hey, thats how great epic stories are written.


I actually liked the aloe vera comment, made me chuckle when i was 15, which is what they were aiming for. Beamdog on the other hand was writing suposedly for a 30 yo something audience that loved this games back then, and they show again and again how they misunderstood their own core audience.


The only thing i found appealing about the character is that she had a nice rack.

Im to lazy to split it up like you did but kudos.

I insist, that Sarevok is the weakest of the "organized" Bhaalspawns, One is a freaking dragon and the others have armies and are giants and what not in Throne of Bhaal. Looking at the big picture, he would not be the only one with a big sacrifice. And he would not be left alone to ascend had it not been for the Ward of Gorion. And his father is still a high up in the Iron Throne branch in Baldurs Gate, something Sarevok would never achieved without his father. That sheltered shrub kicked his ass. Hell one of the Icewind Dale parties we seen over the years would probably cause even more chaos and burn down Baldurs Gate considering of shittilly build the NPCs are in BG. I myself, is not a big fan over the to obvious cheese like that Aloe Vera comment. And I was to dumb a non English speaking kid to get it the first time.

Anyway, we can both atleast agree on the rack.

Also, fuck Skie, litterally a "who?" character.

 

[Mark Richard]

Kinda pointless discussion but I always thought Serevok with his dopplegangers just wanted to start a massive war and then sell stuff through his guild to all parties involved, slowly infiltrating everywhere. He kind of epitomized Bahl, as a chaotic evil villain.

Oh no. I just realized Baldur’s Gate is about an evil PMC trying to start a war for profit, basically the plot of every modern day game ever. Even in a medieval fantasy world we can’t escape it!

 

[Ezrite]

Oh no. I just realized Baldur’s Gate is about an evil PMC trying to start a war for profit, basically the plot of every modern day game ever. Even in a medieval fantasy world we can’t escape it!

Well it was before it was cool and Iron Throne wanted that, Sarevok just wanted to ascend.

 

[Stokowski]

Meh, Dragonspear is what happens when you employ the intern from marketing to write your RPG.

 

[Lhynn]

I insist, that Sarevok is the weakest of the "organized" Bhaalspawns, One is a freaking dragon and the others have armies and are giants and what not in Throne of Bhaal.

And yet the PC was a little mortal that grew surrounded by bookworms. theres so much power in bhaals heritage that what you were born as didnt really matter that much.

Looking at the big picture, he would not be the only one with a big sacrifice. And he would not be left alone to ascend had it not been for the Ward of Gorion. And his father is still a high up in the Iron Throne branch in Baldurs Gate, something Sarevok would never achieved without his father.

Sure he could have, after all he became boss of the leader of the bandits without much effort, and was smart enough to manipulate two entire countries. He wasnt a spellcaster, or a DBZ villain, just a very resourceful noble.

That sheltered shrub kicked his ass.

That sheltered guy kicked everyones ass, i really dont see the point you are trying to make here.

Hell one of the Icewind Dale parties we seen over the years would probably cause even more chaos and burn down Baldurs Gate considering of shittilly build the NPCs are in BG.

Hah, you have no clue about FR do you?

I myself, is not a big fan over the to obvious cheese like that Aloe Vera comment. And I was to dumb a non English speaking kid to get it the first time.

eh, BG1 had a very nerdy kind of humor, one that you could find in some PnP tables.

 

[Atlantico]

Sarevok was brilliant actually, he just wasnt a clairvoyant. He had everything to gain if you didnt stop him, as the war he had orchestrated manipulating two of the most powerful groups in an entire kingdom would make him rich beyond belief and very powerful. he wasnt starting a war to become a "bhaalspawn" he was already that, he started a war to become the new god of murder.
John irenicus wasnt better written, in fact the voice acting carries most of the character. He wasnt bad, just another power hungry wizard with a shitty past.
Sarevok was actually the smartest villain of the series and he made a powerplay using more interesting shit than supar powarful magic spells and a supar powarful sister.

I actually liked the aloe vera comment, made me chuckle when i was 15, which is what they were aiming for. Beamdog on the other hand was writing suposedly for a 30 yo something audience that loved this games back then, and they show again and again how they misunderstood their own core audience.

eh, BG1 had a very nerdy kind of humor, one that you could find in some PnP tables.

Dammit Lhynn, I want to brofist those posts so bad you couldn't sit down for a week.

Excellent points, sir. Excellent points.

 

[Ezrite]

And yet the PC was a little mortal that grew surrounded by bookworms. theres so much power in bhaals heritage that what you were born as didnt really matter that much.


Sure he could have, after all he became boss of the leader of the bandits without much effort, and was smart enough to manipulate two entire countries. He wasnt a spellcaster, or a DBZ villain, just a very resourceful noble.


That sheltered guy kicked everyones ass, i really dont see the point you are trying to make here.


Hah, you have no clue about FR do you?


eh, BG1 had a very nerdy kind of humor, one that you could find in some PnP tables.

Yet he is toppled by one party of nobodies and the much "weaker" Bhaal Spawn while the Shining Lady took an whole army, a coalition army at that and several other things that could be brought in by the Bhaal Spawn to bring her down. I like Sarevok, but to me he is not a better villian than Jon Irenicus or even the Shining Lady. He is, simply put, a smart guy with a sword and a psychotic maniac at that. The Negan of Baldurs Gate or Negan is the Sarevok of The Walking Dead plus a dose of bad one liners and jokes.

Yes I get that with the jokes, and what about it? FR? I never played a proper pen and paper game in the world. Mostly used homebrews or Swedish RP worlds. I know some, what about it?

I see you all ask for good writing and hold Baldurs Gate as some kind of holy grail, but in my opinion the first game is poorly written at times and so stupid sarcastic at times it is not even funny. I get it, it is jokes but how come it gets to slide with that fourth wall shit?

 

[Sizzle]

And yet the PC was a little mortal that grew surrounded by bookworms. theres so much power in bhaals heritage that what you were born as didnt really matter that much.


Sure he could have, after all he became boss of the leader of the bandits without much effort, and was smart enough to manipulate two entire countries. He wasnt a spellcaster, or a DBZ villain, just a very resourceful noble.


That sheltered guy kicked everyones ass, i really dont see the point you are trying to make here.


Hah, you have no clue about FR do you?


eh, BG1 had a very nerdy kind of humor, one that you could find in some PnP tables.

Yet he is toppled by one party of nobodies and the much "weaker" Bhaal Spawn while the Shining Lady took an whole army, a coalition army at that and several other things that could be brought in by the Bhaal Spawn to bring her down. I like Sarevok, but to me he is not a better villian than Jon Irenicus or even the Shining Lady. He is, simply put, a smart guy with a sword and a psychotic maniac at that. The Negan of Baldurs Gate or Negan is the Sarevok of The Walking Dead plus a dose of bad one liners and jokes.

Yes I get that with the jokes, and what about it? FR? I never played a proper pen and paper game in the world. Mostly used homebrews or Swedish RP worlds. I know some, what about it?

I see you all ask for good writing and hold Baldurs Gate as some kind of holy grail, but in my opinion the first game is poorly written at times and so stupid sarcastic at times it is not even funny. I get it, it is jokes but how come it gets to slide with that fourth wall shit?

Absolutely. SoD, on the other hand, is poorly (and that's putting it lightly :D ) written all the time.

As for fourth wall breaking shit, look no further than the "woah, like, I'm trippin' balls here, dude" surfer douche.

 

[Ezrite]

Absolutely. SoD, on the other hand, is poorly (and that's putting it lightly :D ) written all the time.

As for fourth wall breaking shit, look no further than the "woah, like, I'm trippin' balls here, dude" surfer douche.

Maybe I lowered my expectactions so far down the drain I am blind to the shitty writing. After reading about it. That tripping balls guy was fucking dumb.

What is good writing these days I wonder. Age of Decadence? Pillars of Eternity?

 

[Bubbles]

Absolutely. SoD, on the other hand, is poorly (and that's putting it lightly :D ) written all the time.

Wait for the Codex review before leaping to judgement.

 

[Trashos]

What is good writing these days I wonder. Age of Decadence? Pillars of Eternity?

The writing in AoD is great, why not?

As for PoE, I like the writing content-wise, but the execution is often lacking.

 

[Sizzle]

Absolutely. SoD, on the other hand, is poorly (and that's putting it lightly :D ) written all the time.

Wait for the Codex review before leaping to judgement.

Played it. Admittedly, not until the end (got bored and uninstalled it), but in that time - didn't encounter any good writing.

What is good writing these days I wonder. Age of Decadence? Pillars of Eternity?

AoD - definitely. And PoE also has some good bits.

 

[Ezrite]

Played it. Admittedly, not until the end (got bored and uninstalled it), but in that time - didn't encounter any good writing.



AoD - definitely. And PoE also has some good bits.

I have played both and enjoyed both, AoD is one hell of an experience I think.

 

[Hobo Elf]

I thought the 4th wall breaking was good in BG. At times it felt like you were playing a PnP session with BROs rather than a video game.

 

[Spectacle]

Absolutely. SoD, on the other hand, is poorly (and that's putting it lightly :D ) written all the time.

Wait for the Codex review before leaping to judgement.

Which codex review, the first or the third?

 

[Spectacle]

I thought the 4th wall breaking was good in BG. At times it felt like you were playing a PnP session with BROs rather than a video game.

Imagine how much fun it would be to play D&D with a bunch of whiny SJWs.