Baldur's Gate Baldur's Gate 2 is vastly overrated

[Gumar]

All stories in the Forgotten Realms setting are mediocre at best and serve only to explore the fairly interesting world. Numerous side quests to facilitate that are just fine with me. It's also the reason why I'm not that worried about BG3, the series doesn't need a strong story, just explore the world.

Pillars of Eternity has a much higher writing quality, darker atmosphere and better companions than both BGs combined.
It's combat mechanics, endurance/health, no ressurections also give a much more realistic quality to the gaming world.
gods are mysterious, and people are superstitious and the general bestiary is very unique.

I assume you are trolling.

Well, there is this aspect that there is nothing new in fantasy (unlike science fiction or suspense) and thus it all has been done before.
Yet, no one appreciates a mishmash. Baldur's Gate 2's world was not interesting. Why?
1. Drab colors
2. Incoherent Placement of Locations
3. Boring Background Music
4. Absolutely no believability

I can't help you if you have no taste.

 

[Gumar]

Divinity Original Sin had much harder and more tactically enjoyable combat than BG2.

Stoped reading here.

How a game with stat stickie gear, cooldowns, one summon limit, retarded armor system(...) has better combat than BG2?

How a game where
1. You sell 95% of your gear (just to amass more gold)
2. You use the same old shit to fight all monsters (or just use "very convenient" equipment (which exactly dispels beholder rays, tailored for difficult monsters)
3. You abuse magic (same old spells doing the same old shit)
4. Has no environmental variables affecting your combat (slope, blockers, distance)
has a better combat than DOS?

 

[Gumar]

The only thing that I took exception to in BG2 was that weird arab looking art design. I remember the first time I opened up the inventory screen and wondered if my party was sexually attracted to camels. It didn't really grow on me, but I got used to it.

The effort you put in to typing this shitpost will not be requited. Condolences.

That

Can only speak from my POV, but:

• " no atmosphere or single plotline in the game. Anything to hold interest? No."
  • Rescue Imoen, get revenge on Johnny boy for killing Khalid. I thought there was atmopshere, just more cosmo as you say.
• "Side quests are too numerous, one dimensional, and completely unrelated to the plot."
  • I agree here. It always got on my tits how you'd escape the first dungeon, and have a plethora of quests thrown at you. But unrelated to the plot? Doesn't bother me at all. You're an adventurer adventuring, and the game doesn't set up any need for urgency in the progression of the main plot.
• "Story writing, Minsc's humorous parables, and quality of dialogue is very mediocre."
  • Matter of taste methinks. I found Minsc & the talking Sword fucking brill.
• "Compare Icewind Dale, Dragon Age for better gaming experiences, and smaller but more compact stories."
  • It's been too many years since I played Icewind Dale, I just remember it being a combat slog & never finished it. However I'm a big DA:O fanboy, so won't argue there. But that to me's just coz DA:O is a classic game, not coz BG2 is poor.
• "People hate Diablo 1 and 2 for their "lack of roleplaying" but they are pretty solid games for a very limited world."
  • Between this & Icewind Dale, it sounds like you just prefer combat over roleplaying.
• "BG1 had a tighter storyline and a better unfolding of lore"
  • Again, agreed. But That just makes it a different type of game, much like Shadowrun Returns is the appetiser to Shadowrun Dragonfall.

I really like both BG1 & BG2, and there's a lot about BG1 I prefer. But BG2 is probably still my fave overall, and still a classic IMO.

Worst aspect about both you haven't mentioned - the fucking God awful pathfinding. That's the only thing which makes me halt playthroughs.

• Rescue Imoen, get revenge on Johnny boy for killing Khalid. I thought there was atmopshere, just more cosmo as you say.
  • Rescuing Imoen is the plot? I even English Majors can write better plots than that? I mean, how can people who like this find killing rats boring?
• I agree here. It always got on my tits how you'd escape the first dungeon, and have a plethora of quests thrown at you. But unrelated to the plot? Doesn't bother me at all. You're an adventurer adventuring, and the game doesn't set up any need for urgency in the progression of the main plot.
  • Why not name the game as Minecraft? or The Settlers? Aimless quests are okay in base building games but not in RPGs. RPGs are meant for atmosphere, dialogue delivery and a story.
• Matter of taste methinks. I found Minsc & the talking Sword fucking brill.
  • Adding butts/arses (or for that matter "fucks") in every dialogue doesn't make it good. Anders and Varric can make Minsc look like a hobo.
• It's been too many years since I played Icewind Dale, I just remember it being a combat slog & never finished it. However I'm a big DA:O fanboy, so won't argue there. But that to me's just coz DA:O is a classic game, not coz BG2 is poor.
  • Icewind Dale's music/dialogues were a feet above BG2's. Kuldahar and Dragon's Eye, Lower Dorn's Deep or the Ice Temple were locations we looked forward to. Only places comparable to that level of atmosphere were Watcher's Keep and Underdark. Athkatla was bland and generic. And the dialogues were sparse but had weight. Unlike BG2's dime a dozen, copy pasted prose.
• Between this & Icewind Dale, it sounds like you just prefer combat over roleplaying.
  • I prefer atmosphere, story, and immersion over anything else. Combat is a good addition but not the frontpiece. I have never went beyond level 35 in Diablo 2.
• Again, agreed. But That just makes it a different type of game, much like Shadowrun Returns is the appetiser to Shadowrun Dragonfall.
  • I know. However, just to make the game grander, filler content need not be added. It makes it boring not better.

 

[Gumar]

whose alt is this?

and as always, BG 2 >>>>> BG 1

BG 1 is boring low level shit for half of the game

BG1 is low level done good. BG2 is high level done messily.

 

[Gumar]

I would say BG1 is overrated.
It is also significantly less serious than the sequel.

It's actually more serious. You have a conspiracy to lead 2 nations into war. You have a bunch of underground Bhaal worshipping cultists, mining thugs and rengenade gnolls.
BG2 is all over the place with Beholders, Mind Flayers, Liches running amok in Athkatla and the cowled mages not knowing anything about it. It's almost like the Dragon Ball Z funny (where 2 punks can generate enough "Ki" to obliterate a planet)

 

[Gumar]

Baldur's Gate 2 is vastly overrated. It's a complete mess.

You know it is 20 years old right? I don't think it is overrated, most people playing games today would have never even heard of it. In neckbeard communities then yeah it is going to be popular but that doesn't mean much. The sad fact is though, RPGs are not that big of a genre even at the best of times. GTA gets $250m or whatever, and the next big RPG is getting a small fraction of that. And in the 90s especially, that was a really small budget with not great tech. TL-DR: RPGs are generally gimpy and cheap and crappy and under developed and under funded, but there are still some worth playing. I like the high level spells so there aren't many options for that in gaming.

Yet it's still praised to hell in almost all gaming forums.

 

[Gumar]

BG2 has a lot more interesting locations and quests overall than BG1, and mid to high level offers alot more combat options with all the spells that become available, so BG2 easily takes the cake unless you are pettish about particular details.

Most of it's interesting locations are not interesting because they suddenly appear out of the blue without giving any hype or anticipation or backstory.
I can drop a New York in the middle of Denerim. Would that make it interesting?
Being pettish about details is the work of critics. Not fanboys.

 

[Gumar]

Baldur's Gate 2 is one of the reasons game worlds are being built like theme parks these days. More and more decline so to not ever "bore" players rather than incline such as Kingdom Come Deliverance.

Oooooh. So edgy. So contrarian. I can feel the suave ebb from your razor sharp insights.


It's almost like people hate having a large variety of well made quests in a genre where the principle driver is the PC....questing. Perhaps the player should only be able to earn coin necessary to advance the plot through a curated tunnel of plot points. Fuck choice. To hell with variety. Exploration and discovery are chores. Elaborate side-quests are so much distraction.

Have you no shame? Put the razor down.

There's a difference between ordered variety and chaotic mishmash.
BG2 is latter.
Exploration matters if you can enjoy the scenery, the background music, sit with anticipation on what's gonna come next (Deep Roads come to mind, especially the area of the Broodmother).
BG2 Exploration is? Random locations with random loot and monsters that were chosen out of a sorting hat.
Side Quests are just that. A consequence of the main incident. Aimless exploration and cash generation is what you do in Minecraft.

 

[Gumar]

BG1 is a bit like POE1, only multiplied. What I mean by that is that it is a game that extremely lucked out on release date/circumstances and, as such, became a symbol of "Crpg revival" and a childhood classic for many current day hardcore crpg connoisseurs. It also has an unquestionable status of a game that will be mentioned by people in any crpg discussion, top ever list, retrospection etc., even if they never played it. Does it deserve all that? Who cares.

BG2 ported over many BG1's flaws, but it has good and varied encounters, amazing itemization, many huge, memorable, quests that instill a real sense of adventure, improved char/party building a bit (still poor, but improved). It also got rid of gameplay consisting of clearing the fog of war from rts maps leftover from before the development change and minimized the "A little girls asks you to find her cat. The cat's corpse is 20 meters away. You give that cat to the girl. End." quest design.

Ultimately, I guess both games are overrated and a big factor behind the catastrophic extinction of crpgs in the first decade of xxi century.

They really overdid the itemization with +4 and +5 weapons available like dimes and nickels. Compare POE2 for far better itemization and more variety.
Huge doesn't always translate to memorable.
If you want to experience a Real sense of adventuring, check out DAO.
Giving a little girl her dead cat is more memorable than killing liches again and again, under Athkatla. Simply because it's out of the ordinary. Unless of course, you invade the sanctum of Larloch.

 

[Gumar]

Divinity Original sin combat was praised tremendously.

Is the WORST combat by far in any CRPG.

• Awful spells ever
• Worst armor mechanics ever
• Slow animations in a TB game
• Stat sticky itemization
• Cooldowns
• Archers that can't hit a mammoth at 14m
• (...)

Only the magic system and the feeling of being a powerful mage might be a point where it takes the crown.

Yep. Spells on BG2 are so great.

Icewind Dale(not the EE, beamdog actually fixed it) has only extremely lackluster spells.

as the gear and loot were extremely specific to certain classes, that you almost always had to sell 90% of what you found.

Wrong. Completely wrong. You use a lot of different weapons depending on the enemy. For eg, a clay golem appears? Switch to blunt magical weapons.

Baagh elves. Real men romance ogres.

To what? Produce uggly dumb half ogres?

Is the WORST combat by far in any CRPG.

• Awful spells ever
• Worst armor mechanics ever
• Slow animations in a TB game
• Stat sticky itemization
• Cooldowns
• Archers that can't hit a mammoth at 14m
• (...)

Not Quite. Spells were low level but self-sufficient. Web actually felt like web. Unlike in BG2, where not only was the animation janky but also, anything bigger than giant rat did not get stuck in it.
The Armor mechanics were worsened in DOS2. I am talking about DOS1.
Fast enough. And enough for you to see which arm loosened the bow. Unlike BG2, where the cylinder doll just thrashed like a maniac and stuff happened.
Almost every game post 2005 has used cooldowns. What's your point?
Not sure where you are coming from here.

Yep. Spells on BG2 are so great.

Icewind Dale(not the EE, beamdog actually fixed it) has only extremely lackluster spells
I assume you are jacking off to Timestop here. I wonder why stopping time has no consequence on Faerun or if every run of the mill mage can do it, why aren't there more ground breaking scenarios occurring.
And even then, out of 6 or 7 spells, people ended up only using 1 or 2 from every level. That's the textbook definition of imbalanced, shit design. Ever used Acid Rain?
Low Level spells are not only more realistic but also stop Sorcerers from soloing the game like a retarded Goku.

Wrong. Completely wrong. You use a lot of different weapons depending on the enemy. For eg, a clay golem appears? Switch to blunt magical weapons.

Pray tell me, which other enemy required you to switch weapons? Wasn't it always Crom Faeyr, Celestial Fury, Flial of the Ages of Holy Avenger (Carosmyr)? Did you really use Crossbows/Tridents/Halberds/Darts/Slings?

 

[Gumar]

Pillars of Eternity general bestiary is very unique.

Ikr? Especially kobolds Xaurips, mindflayers Vithracks, spriggans Delemgans, golems Animats, death knights Death Guards, banshees Cean Gŵlas and how can we forget vampires and ghouls. Uh...I mean Fampyrs and Guls. Totally not lifted stuff.

Sufficient Effort was given to make them not only look different but also have unique origins.
BG2 just copy pasted stuff from the games of the 90s.
We have not 1 but 3 liches!
We have Beholders and Mind Flayers! Oh no, More Beholders and Mind Flayers!
And we have Dragons.. in 9 different flavors!
Wow so unique!

 

[Gumar]

BG2 is RPG for commonfolk. Elite is RPGs like Fallout and Jagged Alliance 2.

Wrong, most "commonfolk" nowadays plays Diablo 3, Faggout 4/76 and dragon age inquisition. In fact, THAC0 would melt the brain of the 2020 average player.

THACO is nothing special. If you think it makes brains of others "melt", and judging by your posts, you do seem to have an overtly high opinion of yourself.

 

[Gumar]

It's almost like people hate having a large variety of well made quests in a genre where the principle driver is the PC....questing. Perhaps the player should only be able to earn coin necessary to advance the plot through a curated tunnel of plot points. Fuck choice. To hell with variety. Exploration and discovery are chores. Elaborate side-quests are so much distraction.

Seems that you fail to see the difference between finely crafted gameworld with interesting quests and mishmash of almost unconnected ideas and events. The finest examples of the former are Fallout 1 or Arcanum. The latter is BG series and any Shittesda games.

Why does everything have to be related? If the world is big - there might very well be issues going on that are separate for each other.

BG 1 had this thing where most dungeons you hit were set up by the Iron Throne - but the game was not nearly as good as BG2. Just cause BG2's formula was followed up with so many bad imitations - does not mean that BG2 didn't nail it.

Anyway - BG2's strength is itemzation, encounter design and an unleashed interpretation of 2nd edition.

Because it's one game. Are you playing an RPG or Minecraft? or Sandbox games like Skyrim?
Yeah but if you are spending 10 days to go to Trademeet while leaving the monsters in De;arnise keep half killed, why do they wait for you to come back? How do the quest givers feel about you trudging all over the land, half-finishing quests?
And obviously if you are so resourceful that you can solve things in every area in the same time, you can kill the boss too, right there. No need to follow a coherent plotline.

That's the definition of a Diablo 2esque, action RPG.

 

[Infinitron]

 

[kangaxx]

 

[kinzadza]

My man made an account just to shitpost in this thread.

 

[Nano]

He could be using the edit function, but he's still dropping truth bombs.

 

[Infinitron]

My man made an account just to shitpost in this thread.

He created this thread over two years ago!

 

[razvedchiki]

staying perpetually buttmad folds time and space.

 

[Humbaba]

This level of autism is almost respectable.

 

[Junmarko]

4. Has no environmental variables affecting your combat (slope, blockers, distance)
has a better combat than DOS?

How long have you been working for Larian?

 

[Gumar]

4. Has no environmental variables affecting your combat (slope, blockers, distance)
has a better combat than DOS?

How long have you been working for Larian?

I would love to work for them if not for the inconvenient detail that I don't have much programming skills (game programming to be precise)
BG3 will blow BG2 out of the water. Stay tuned for September, Chum

 

[Junmarko]

Stay tuned for September, Chum

Nah thanks, they/them.

 

[Gumar]

He could be using the edit function, but he's still dropping truth bombs.

About time too. BG2 is like the Emperor with no clothes. No one has the balls to criticise it.

 

[Camel]