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Baldur's Gate Baldur's Gate 2 is vastly overrated

Discussion in 'BioWare' started by Gumar, Aug 20, 2020.

  1. Serus Arcane

    Serus
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    It's probably a sign of an incoming psychological meltdown. I mean, worse than it is already. I suspect that a self-ejection will come within 6, maximum 12 months. Sad really because he has some sensible things to say on occasion about crpgs - like the opinion on JA2 for example.
     
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  2. Lilura RPG Codex Dragon Lady

    Lilura
    Joined:
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    5,058
    "Lilura laughs" is a modified Conan reference. I've used it three times in seven years. Sue me?

    "Liluran" is not a third-person reference, but of or pertaining to.

    So, who wants to talk about BG2, and not Lilura?
     
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  3. Mr. Magniloquent Savant

    Mr. Magniloquent
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    [​IMG]
     
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  4. jackofshadows Savant

    jackofshadows
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    If you say so.
    What's your biggest gripe about this game?
     
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  5. Nifft Batuff Arbiter

    Nifft Batuff
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    Animu girls usually speak to themselves in third person.
     
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  6. Sarathiour Educated

    Sarathiour
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    126
    Wait , i'm confused. Are you trying to say that you are a animu girl ?

    Incidentaly, was caesar the first ween trap recorded in history ?
     
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  7. Lilura RPG Codex Dragon Lady

    Lilura
    Joined:
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    You're not going to get anything out of me until you rephrase the question. To spell it out, "gripe" generally connotes "trivial complaint".
     
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  8. Daemongar Arcane Patron

    Daemongar
    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2010
    Messages:
    3,482
    Location:
    Wisconsin
    Here is my take on BG1/BG2:
    BG1
    * Came out at the right time
    * Was novel and had a lot of sparks of originality
    * Everyone bitches about RTwP, but are unaware of the chilling "Diablo-effect" on all RPGs that came after Diablo. Not fair to hold the BG1 developers feet to the fire on this.
    * Had about the right amount of content, good pace.
    * Everyone slams the game, but everyone can quote Minsc, knows to gather their party before venturing forth, and knows where to find the Ring of Wizardry without using a FAQ
    * Made NPC's joining you just NPC's - it would be much later that Bioware determined they could make more money off of making NPC's pretend like they want to have intercourse with you, but that's another story.
    * Not a lot of hugely overpowering magic items, so the +2 sword you get near the beginning is quite a prize. It only starts getting crazy when everyone has Ankheg armor and such/5th or so level.

    BG2
    * Made improvements over BG1 in interface options that were introduced in IWD.
    * First game I ever played where it appears they killed off an NPC so I could "romance his wife" or whatever. Put me in an odd spot the more I thought about it. But it was that whiney Khalid, so who cares.
    * Added some nice treasure, added 9th level spells (which was nice) and lots of optional quests. Lots of ludicrously big combat encounters.
    * Suffered from the same thing as Fallout 2 - too much of a good thing starting somewhere near the the mid-point
    * Suffered from the same thing as Fallout 2 - starter dungeon is not optional and it's aggravating - first location also locks you in for a long time before you can actually have an open world experience.
    * Eventually the skies are raining magic and potions, so kind of gets a little out of hand.

    Eh, BG1 & 2 are cultural artifacts. Placing them in context shifts from year to year. BG1 was not only very popular, but also very good. BG2 was good but but I never got a strong C&C feel from either. Both are good as an homage to the Gold Box games, and were pretty fun on multiplayer (you did play it on multiplayer, didn't you?)
     
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  9. jackofshadows Savant

    jackofshadows
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    Sure, no worries, I can play along.
    FOR FUCK SAKE, woman, what's your biggest COMPLAIN about bg2 SO BIG compare to bg1 that you cannot even put them together? Besides aesthetics regarding weapons and such.
     
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  10. Nifft Batuff Arbiter

    Nifft Batuff
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    No I speak in third singular.
     
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  11. oldmanpaco Master of Siestas

    oldmanpaco
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    oldmanpaco does not understand the angst about BG2. Sure games like FO1 and BG1 were more innovative and changed the cRPG landscape but FO2 and BG2 are goddamn fun. Not every game needs to be an artistic masterpiece. Sometime you just want to get the gang together (Edwin, Viconia, Jaheria, Korgan) and smash some heads. Throw a fresh coat of SCS on that and you really have something. There is value in that.


    Its the oldmanpacoian commentary on the matter.
     
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  12. Tigranes Prestigious Gentleman Arcane

    Tigranes
    Joined:
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    Did you just.... ping yourself

    That is some gold star lilura cosplay
     
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  13. Unreal Savant

    Unreal
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    401
    all those characters are insufferable gay losers, why would you even want that
     
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  14. Butter Arcane

    Butter
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    Seriously though the companions in BG2 aren't all Minsc tier, but they're all at least kind of annoying.
     
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  15. Drowed Arcane

    Drowed
    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2011
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    Location:
    Core City
    For sure. Let's see:

    Anomen - Who? Ah, the tank-guy.
    Cernd - Who, again?
    Edwin - A Codex favorite, I wonder why?
    Imoen - I mean, c'mon. Even the developers didn't want her in the story.
    Minsc - I think you know Boo by now. And you wish you didn't.
    Nalia - The junkie of the group. Imoen's substitute, which isn't a compliment.
    Haer - Boring.
    Mazzy - I don't think I used her even once.
    Keldorn - "Obligatory" paladin, if you aren't one.
    Korgan - I kinda like him, but mostly because he hates Aerie.
    Viconia - You wanted to fuck her.
    Aerie - But you romanced her instead. Despite how sick, boring and annoying she is.
    Jaheira - Eh, it could be worse.
    Jansen - It had some potential, but it didn't go anywhere.
    Valygar - I like his archetype and voiceover, but he is weak (in personality and gameplay).

    New companions in EE? I don't know and I don't care.
     
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  16. Nifft Batuff Arbiter

    Nifft Batuff
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    So, it seems that EE has the better companions.
     
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  17. Diablo1_reborn Viva New Vegas! Patron

    Diablo1_reborn
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    Somtimes I do wonder how many alt accounts are on this site. lol
     
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  18. NJClaw Ontopolover by choice Patron

    NJClaw
    Joined:
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    Pathfinder: Kingmaker
    Your opinion is completely invalid then, and you should get immediately banned. Mazzy is a lovable hero and I always bring her around, either as an archer or a long swords wielder. She has several dialogues with Korgan and Valygar, and some lines of dialogues with Aerie, Anomen, Keldorn, Minsc and Yoshimo.

    She is actually the only cool example of the stereotypical "strong independent woman" I can't think of in videogames.
     
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  19. jackofshadows Savant

    jackofshadows
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    Mazzy is underrated, yes. Simply because how far devs put her so most players have full party at that point. But she has strong personality, some of her dialogues are fun, with Valygar especially imo and she's a quite decent combatant. In addition, she voiced by Jennifer Hale herself! Still no match for the evil guys, though.
     
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  20. Diablo1_reborn Viva New Vegas! Patron

    Diablo1_reborn
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    Yupp. It's hard to find a reason to include Mazzy into your party when it's already full. Same thing happened with Tiax, Alora or Faldorn in BG1.
     
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  21. Dillrodimus Prime Literate

    Dillrodimus Prime
    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2020
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    34
    I fucking love all of the IE games , BG2 especially (300 hrs since buying EE) , but I absolutely wouldn't recommend it to people who didn't already have a feel/love for the ruleset or the genre.

    The older I get, the more I wonder if it was just a matter of having the correct amount of impressionability combined with what really was state of the art presentation at the time. There is/was a fuck of a lot of jank that seems like par for the course to me whenever I try to play it now.

    Part of me suspects that if I tried to play the game with fresh eyes, I would hate it as much as currently dislike BG3.

    What I'm saying is I weep for my lost sense of wonder as I gradually decline into my old age
     
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  22. Zboj Lamignat Arcane

    Zboj Lamignat
    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2012
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    What's so janky about BG? The game doesn't have common design sensibilities like quest markers, but char development, for example, is more streamlined than the latest call of duty. The worst part is probably item juggling, but it's not like you really need all those potions and 3gp gems.
     
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  23. Dillrodimus Prime Literate

    Dillrodimus Prime
    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2020
    Messages:
    34
    I guess primarily I was thinking the 2E ruleset and the jank/fiddliness inherent in that... shit like maxing HP rolls, pre gen stat distribution etc

    I knew the ins and outs of it already, but how do you explain Thac0 and saving throws to your average casual gamer?
     
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  24. Nano Prestigious Gentleman Arcane Patron

    Nano
    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2016
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    2,339
    "Lower is better" isn't that complicated.

    What is foreign to current-year gamers is the amount of information you can only find out from a manual (or an internet search, these days). Nobody in the game tells you that liches are immune to spells below level 6, or that trolls need to be killed with fire or acid.
     
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  25. kangaxx Educated

    kangaxx
    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2020
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    Location:
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    I first ran into these concepts when I was 4 or 5, playing Champions of Krynn on a 486! Admittedly I didn't get it at first, but after repeated failures I sat with my dad and looked through the instruction manual. It explained everything with reference to the calculations! Once I understood that "lower was better", I was absolutely fine.

    Leaving all that aside though, is it really aimed at the super casual market? I'm not sure concessions should always be made to them, but of course that's a matter of opinion.

    Edit: believe it or not, Nano's post wasn't up when I posted this^^. It looks like I just copied him verbatim!
     
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