Baldur's Gate Baldur's Gate 2 is vastly overrated

[jackofshadows]

"Liluran" is not a third-person reference, but of or pertaining to.

If you say so.

So, who wants to talk about BG2, and not Lilura?

What's your biggest gripe about this game?

 

[Nifft Batuff]

Since when did you started resort to yourself in a third person? That's... too much, really.

Animu girls usually speak to themselves in third person.

 

[Sarathiour]

Animu girls usually speak to themselves in third person.

Wait , i'm confused. Are you trying to say that you are a animu girl ?

Incidentaly, was caesar the first ween trap recorded in history ?

 

[Lilura]

What's your biggest gripe about this game?

You're not going to get anything out of me until you rephrase the question. To spell it out, "gripe" generally connotes "trivial complaint".

 

[Daemongar]

Here is my take on BG1/BG2:
BG1
* Came out at the right time
* Was novel and had a lot of sparks of originality
* Everyone bitches about RTwP, but are unaware of the chilling "Diablo-effect" on all RPGs that came after Diablo. Not fair to hold the BG1 developers feet to the fire on this.
* Had about the right amount of content, good pace.
* Everyone slams the game, but everyone can quote Minsc, knows to gather their party before venturing forth, and knows where to find the Ring of Wizardry without using a FAQ
* Made NPC's joining you just NPC's - it would be much later that Bioware determined they could make more money off of making NPC's pretend like they want to have intercourse with you, but that's another story.
* Not a lot of hugely overpowering magic items, so the +2 sword you get near the beginning is quite a prize. It only starts getting crazy when everyone has Ankheg armor and such/5th or so level.

BG2
* Made improvements over BG1 in interface options that were introduced in IWD.
* First game I ever played where it appears they killed off an NPC so I could "romance his wife" or whatever. Put me in an odd spot the more I thought about it. But it was that whiney Khalid, so who cares.
* Added some nice treasure, added 9th level spells (which was nice) and lots of optional quests. Lots of ludicrously big combat encounters.
* Suffered from the same thing as Fallout 2 - too much of a good thing starting somewhere near the the mid-point
* Suffered from the same thing as Fallout 2 - starter dungeon is not optional and it's aggravating - first location also locks you in for a long time before you can actually have an open world experience.
* Eventually the skies are raining magic and potions, so kind of gets a little out of hand.

Eh, BG1 & 2 are cultural artifacts. Placing them in context shifts from year to year. BG1 was not only very popular, but also very good. BG2 was good but but I never got a strong C&C feel from either. Both are good as an homage to the Gold Box games, and were pretty fun on multiplayer (you did play it on multiplayer, didn't you?)

 

[jackofshadows]

What's your biggest gripe about this game?

You're not going to get anything out of me until you rephrase the question. To spell it out, "gripe" generally connotes "trivial complaint".

Sure, no worries, I can play along.
FOR FUCK SAKE, woman, what's your biggest COMPLAIN about bg2 SO BIG compare to bg1 that you cannot even put them together? Besides aesthetics regarding weapons and such.

 

[Nifft Batuff]

Wait , i'm confused. Are you trying to say that you are a animu girl ?

No I speak in third singular.

 

[oldmanpaco]

oldmanpaco does not understand the angst about BG2. Sure games like FO1 and BG1 were more innovative and changed the cRPG landscape but FO2 and BG2 are goddamn fun. Not every game needs to be an artistic masterpiece. Sometime you just want to get the gang together (Edwin, Viconia, Jaheria, Korgan) and smash some heads. Throw a fresh coat of SCS on that and you really have something. There is value in that.


Its the oldmanpacoian commentary on the matter.

 

[Tigranes]

Did you just.... ping yourself

That is some gold star lilura cosplay

 

[Butter]

Seriously though the companions in BG2 aren't all Minsc tier, but they're all at least kind of annoying.

 

[Drowed]

Seriously though the companions in BG2 aren't all Minsc tier, but they're all at least kind of annoying.

For sure. Let's see:

Anomen - Who? Ah, the tank-guy.
Cernd - Who, again?
Edwin - A Codex favorite, I wonder why?
Imoen - I mean, c'mon. Even the developers didn't want her in the story.
Minsc - I think you know Boo by now. And you wish you didn't.
Nalia - The junkie of the group. Imoen's substitute, which isn't a compliment.
Haer - Boring.
Mazzy - I don't think I used her even once.
Keldorn - "Obligatory" paladin, if you aren't one.
Korgan - I kinda like him, but mostly because he hates Aerie.
Viconia - You wanted to fuck her.
Aerie - But you romanced her instead. Despite how sick, boring and annoying she is.
Jaheira - Eh, it could be worse.
Jansen - It had some potential, but it didn't go anywhere.
Valygar - I like his archetype and voiceover, but he is weak (in personality and gameplay).

New companions in EE? I don't know and I don't care.

 

[Nifft Batuff]

So, it seems that EE has the better companions.

 

[d1r]

Did you just.... ping yourself

That is some gold star lilura cosplay

Somtimes I do wonder how many alt accounts are on this site. lol

 

[NJClaw]

Mazzy - I don't think I used her even once.

Your opinion is completely invalid then, and you should get immediately banned. Mazzy is a lovable hero and I always bring her around, either as an archer or a long swords wielder. She has several dialogues with Korgan and Valygar, and some lines of dialogues with Aerie, Anomen, Keldorn, Minsc and Yoshimo.

She is actually the only cool example of the stereotypical "strong independent woman" I can't think of in videogames.

 

[jackofshadows]

Mazzy is underrated, yes. Simply because how far devs put her so most players have full party at that point. But she has strong personality, some of her dialogues are fun, with Valygar especially imo and she's a quite decent combatant. In addition, she voiced by Jennifer Hale herself! Still no match for the evil guys, though.

 

[d1r]

Mazzy is underrated, yes. Simply because how far devs put her so most players have full party at that point. But she has strong personality, some of her dialogues are fun, with Valygar especially imo and she's a quite decent combatant. In addition, she voiced by Jennifer Hale herself! Still no match for the evil guys, though.

Yupp. It's hard to find a reason to include Mazzy into your party when it's already full. Same thing happened with Tiax, Alora or Faldorn in BG1.

 

[Dillrodimus Prime]

I fucking love all of the IE games , BG2 especially (300 hrs since buying EE) , but I absolutely wouldn't recommend it to people who didn't already have a feel/love for the ruleset or the genre.

The older I get, the more I wonder if it was just a matter of having the correct amount of impressionability combined with what really was state of the art presentation at the time. There is/was a fuck of a lot of jank that seems like par for the course to me whenever I try to play it now.

Part of me suspects that if I tried to play the game with fresh eyes, I would hate it as much as currently dislike BG3.

What I'm saying is I weep for my lost sense of wonder as I gradually decline into my old age

 

[Zboj Lamignat]

What's so janky about BG? The game doesn't have common design sensibilities like quest markers, but char development, for example, is more streamlined than the latest call of duty. The worst part is probably item juggling, but it's not like you really need all those potions and 3gp gems.

 

[Dillrodimus Prime]

I guess primarily I was thinking the 2E ruleset and the jank/fiddliness inherent in that... shit like maxing HP rolls, pre gen stat distribution etc

I knew the ins and outs of it already, but how do you explain Thac0 and saving throws to your average casual gamer?

 

[Nano]

"Lower is better" isn't that complicated.

What is foreign to current-year gamers is the amount of information you can only find out from a manual (or an internet search, these days). Nobody in the game tells you that liches are immune to spells below level 6, or that trolls need to be killed with fire or acid.

 

[kangaxx]

I knew the ins and outs of it already, but how do you explain Thac0 and saving throws to your average casual gamer?

I first ran into these concepts when I was 4 or 5, playing Champions of Krynn on a 486! Admittedly I didn't get it at first, but after repeated failures I sat with my dad and looked through the instruction manual. It explained everything with reference to the calculations! Once I understood that "lower was better", I was absolutely fine.

Leaving all that aside though, is it really aimed at the super casual market? I'm not sure concessions should always be made to them, but of course that's a matter of opinion.

Edit: believe it or not, Nano's post wasn't up when I posted this^^. It looks like I just copied him verbatim!

 

[Zboj Lamignat]

I knew the ins and outs of it already, but how do you explain Thac0 and saving throws to your average casual gamer?

Why would you need to? It's not like the game gives you the option to make high dmg/low acc fighter or vice versa. You don't really know the relative stats of your enemies, either. IE games are literally "click the level up" button and that's it. Sure, something like spell casting and why there is no mana can confuse people, but your average modern crpg really is more complicated. The amount of enemies in BG1 that require special approach isn't particularly high, either.

 

[Ol' Willy]

IE games are literally "click the level up" button and that's it.

The pinnacle of RPG design, that's for sure.

 

[Goldschmidt]

BG2 is not a masterpiece lol.

In Liluran estimation, it is not even a top 10 all-time RPG.

BG2 is RPG for commonfolk. Elite is RPGs like Fallout and Jagged Alliance 2.

I am spilling my drink.

Open your twat, slut, and I'll show you the biggest rpg in your lifetime. Critical hits will consume you.

Elite is rpg's like Diablo and Path of Exile.

 

[maximusriley]

Please, BG2 is more overrated than BG1. I am the only commentator in existence that says BG1 > BG2. Everyone else says the opposite, and it's always been that way.

Bullshit. I've always said that BG1 is better than BG2 in everything except a technical sense.

I was talking about commentators (blog, YouTube) and "journalists." Of course, there are quite a few forum posters who share that view, and they are just as important. I remember Jaesun often saying BG1 > BG2. That guy had good taste.

I'd say that BG2 is the better game, but I enjoyed BG1 more because it was just so revolutionary. It was a true "Holy shit, this is amazing!" experience. The gap between BG2 and BG1 wasn't nearly as big as the gap between BG1 and everything that came before it.