Baldur's Gate Baldur's Gate 2 is vastly overrated

[Cryomancer]

Outside of enjoying some magic-using classes due to their theme, I'm old fashioned and prefer the visual of the knight staring down the huge dragon.

dominate battlescapes, dictate combat encounter outcomes and render other party members redundant.

The problem is that martial classes are lackluster. Not that casters are "OP". 3/3.5e gave knockdown, disarm, cleave and other feats however, I don't think that this should be feats. Should be feats which every martial class has at lv 5. and fighters should get shield bash, low kick(...) and other stuff. And if high level zombie/skeleton undead supernatural abilities like auras, why not give this abilities to supernatural martial classes too? Rangers, the ability to put nasty poisons and other stuff in their arrows and having cool ways to fire his arrow, tame beasts and so on, could make then far more interesting.

But since you like more melee games, did you played the Dark Sun games? Shattered Lands and Wake of the Ravager?

 

[Ol' Willy]

D&D is just a high magical setting.

 

[Cryomancer]

D&D is just a high magical setting.

Dark Sun is a high magical version of mad max.

Even your house pet can have some psionic power on dark sun. City states are ruled by sorcerer kings which are ALL epic level defilers/psion. The unique reason to why wizards(preservers and defilers) are rare, is because there are a stigma on using magical powers and the sorcerer kings wanna a mnopoly over it. And who "freed" Tyr? Veiled alliance. a group of magicians...

https://darksun.fandom.com/wiki/Borys

If a human can become this draconic creature, your setting is not a low magic setting. Low magical setting are like Conan, where there are few magicians per country and they power comes with great cost and risk.

 

[Lilura]

But since you like more melee games, did you played the Dark Sun games? Shattered Lands and Wake of the Ravager?

Played them many years ago, but playing them now doesn't suit my agenda.

I don't favor melee, ranged, magic or stealthy playstyles/builds. It depends on the RPG and the implementation of mechanics.

 

[Thac0]

(...)

Do not forget the worst initiative system known to man, somehow achieving the massive feat of combining the disadvantages of individual and party initiative without either ones strengths.

 

[The Jester]

IE combat is decidedly inferior to divinity combat.

 

[Nifft Batuff]

BG2 made me appreciate Menzoberranzan.

 

[mondblut]

Weren't BG1 and 2 the games that saved CRPGs from extinction? That showed that games like that could still be viable and profitable?

In a same way as prostitution saves a woman from dying of starvation - sort of.

 

[Technomancer]

Pillars of Eternity general bestiary is very unique.

Ikr? Especially kobolds Xaurips, mindflayers Vithracks, spriggans Delemgans, golems Animats, death knights Death Guards, banshees Cean Gŵlas and how can we forget vampires and ghouls. Uh...I mean Fampyrs and Guls. Totally not lifted stuff.

 

[Cryomancer]

Weren't BG1 and 2 the games that saved CRPGs from extinction? That showed that games like that could still be viable and profitable?

In a same way as prostitution saves a woman from dying of starvation - sort of.

Except that BG2 is a masterpeice. In your analogy with prostitution, a woman can get diseases and mistreatment but can also get a high luxurious life. A chick got millionaire by putting her virginity in a action house.

 

[carole kind]

Xaurip camp in bg1 was cool, it was genocide

 

[mondblut]

Weren't BG1 and 2 the games that saved CRPGs from extinction? That showed that games like that could still be viable and profitable?

In a same way as prostitution saves a woman from dying of starvation - sort of.

Except that BG2 is a masterpeice. In your analogy with prostitution, a woman can get diseases and mistreatment but can also get a high luxurious life. A chick got millionaire by putting her virginity in a action house.

Yeah. She's still a slut.

 

[Mr. Magniloquent]

There are so many well made quests that weave into each other through each district, yet somehow this game world isn't finely crafted?

Thing is, the vast majority don't weave into each other at all. Instead, they are completely separated from each other, with no hint at all or suggestion of each other (much like the non-contiguous maps). This is the definition of NOT finely crafted. It is the definition of hotchpotch. It is lazy, thoughtless design.

The connections between the areas are abundant. That was a reckless misstep for someone claiming to be THE authority on all things Baldur's Gate. I'll chock that one up to being addled from overzealous hormone therapy. Do you concede your error, or shall we proceed?

 

[Sergiu64]

It's almost like people hate having a large variety of well made quests in a genre where the principle driver is the PC....questing. Perhaps the player should only be able to earn coin necessary to advance the plot through a curated tunnel of plot points. Fuck choice. To hell with variety. Exploration and discovery are chores. Elaborate side-quests are so much distraction.

Seems that you fail to see the difference between finely crafted gameworld with interesting quests and mishmash of almost unconnected ideas and events. The finest examples of the former are Fallout 1 or Arcanum. The latter is BG series and any Shittesda games.

Why does everything have to be related? If the world is big - there might very well be issues going on that are separate for each other.

BG 1 had this thing where most dungeons you hit were set up by the Iron Throne - but the game was not nearly as good as BG2. Just cause BG2's formula was followed up with so many bad imitations - does not mean that BG2 didn't nail it.

Anyway - BG2's strength is itemzation, encounter design and an unleashed interpretation of 2nd edition.

 

[Luckmann]

Baldur's Gate 2 is vastly overrated

You're vastly overrated.

Please, BG2 is more overrated than BG1. I am the only commentator in existence that says BG1 > BG2. Everyone else says the opposite, and it's always been that way.

Bullshit. I've always said that BG1 is better than BG2 in everything except a technical sense.

 

[Joseph Stalin]

There are so many well made quests that weave into each other through each district, yet somehow this game world isn't finely crafted?

Thing is, the vast majority don't weave into each other at all. Instead, they are completely separated from each other, with no hint at all or suggestion of each other (much like the non-contiguous maps). This is the definition of NOT finely crafted. It is the definition of hotchpotch. It is lazy, thoughtless design.

The connections between the areas are abundant. That was a reckless misstep for someone claiming to be THE authority on all things Baldur's Gate. I'll chock that one up to being addled from overzealous hormone therapy. Do you concede your error, or shall we proceed?

In case you haven't noticed yet, lads, this is one of Lilura's sock accounts.

 

[oldmanpaco]

Of course, it is not an achievement of any kind to solo IE games. Lilura laughs hard at those who boast of soloing.

I hate that I agree with this. Soloing any IE game or games inspired by it (POE1/2, PFK) is just an extended exercise in kiting and exploiting game mechanics. What's even the point?

 

[Lilura]

Please, BG2 is more overrated than BG1. I am the only commentator in existence that says BG1 > BG2. Everyone else says the opposite, and it's always been that way.

Bullshit. I've always said that BG1 is better than BG2 in everything except a technical sense.

I was talking about commentators (blog, YouTube) and "journalists." Of course, there are quite a few forum posters who share that view, and they are just as important. I remember Jaesun often saying BG1 > BG2. That guy had good taste.

 

[Lilura]

Except that BG2 is a masterpeice.

BG2 is not a masterpiece lol.

In Liluran estimation, it is not even a top 10 all-time RPG.

BG2 is RPG for commonfolk. Elite is RPGs like Fallout and Jagged Alliance 2.

 

[jackofshadows]

Since when did you started resort to yourself in a third person? That's... too much, really.

 

[Cryomancer]

BG2 is RPG for commonfolk. Elite is RPGs like Fallout and Jagged Alliance 2.

Wrong, most "commonfolk" nowadays plays Diablo 3, Faggout 4/76 and dragon age inquisition. In fact, THAC0 would melt the brain of the 2020 average player.

 

[Lilura]

Wrong, most "commonfolk" nowadays plays Diablo 3, Faggout 4/76 and dragon age inquisition.

Liluran commentary does not formally acknowledge the existence of post-Renaissance. I would say post-Renaissance is worse than commonfolk: ape-like, and beneath contempt.

In fact, THAC0 would melt the brain of the 2020 average player.

I'm always ready to talk about THAC0. Indeed, I love THAC0.

 

[Serus]

Since when did you started resort to yourself in a third person? That's... too much, really.

It's probably a sign of an incoming psychological meltdown. I mean, worse than it is already. I suspect that a self-ejection will come within 6, maximum 12 months. Sad really because he has some sensible things to say on occasion about crpgs - like the opinion on JA2 for example.

 

[Lilura]

"Lilura laughs" is a modified Conan reference. I've used it three times in seven years. Sue me?

"Liluran" is not a third-person reference, but of or pertaining to.

So, who wants to talk about BG2, and not Lilura?

 

[Mr. Magniloquent]

So, who wants to talk about BG2, and not Lilura?

The connections between the areas are abundant. That was a reckless misstep for someone claiming to be THE authority on all things Baldur's Gate. ...... Do you concede your error, or shall we proceed?