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Baldur's Gate Baldur's Gate 2 is vastly overrated

Discussion in 'BioWare' started by Gumar, Aug 20, 2020.

  1. S0rcererV1ct0r Cipher

    S0rcererV1ct0r
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    Magic is lackluster in all Sawyer games. Except IWD 2. The worst game to play as a magician from him is NWN2. On P&P mages can do far more than just "support"... For me, who like to play this RPG's not only for a challenging combat but for escapism/power fantasy, this is a huge letdown. I love using powerful magic in high fantasy games and powerful firearms in games like fallout new vegas/deus ex. Don't get me wrong, I liked IWD1 but I prefer to play the game with all crazy spells and even some mods and play as a pale master, with the Artisan kit-pack ( https://artisans-corner.com/the-artisans-kitpack/ )

    I get that some people don't like mages shaping reality, conjuring hordes from hell, OHK an army and stopping the time while they can only swing an weapon but this notion that spellcasters should be support only kinda ruins the point of a high magical setting IMO. And there is nothing wrong with preferring low magic or no magic settings. D&D is just a high magical setting.
     
    Last edited: Aug 22, 2020
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  2. Lilura RPG Codex Dragon Lady

    Lilura
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    Don't really like the negative connotation of "lacklustre". Spellcasters in AD&D2 must be reigned in or they dominate battlescapes, dictate combat encounter outcomes and render other party members redundant.

    We do this by limiting their repertoire, limiting spell scroll itemization, and throwing hordes of tough, magic-resistant or magic-immune enemies at spellcasters. Or by employing resting restrictions and crushing on-rest ambushes which all RPGs that employ Vancian magic system should have, but IWD didn't do a good job there.

    Exactly. Sorcerer ruined the game balance because they're not reliant on spell scroll itemization. Thus, solo Sorcerer is the easiest way to win IWD2. Because the game isn't balanced for the repertoire solo Sorcerers have at their disposal. Of course, it is not an achievement of any kind to solo IE games. Lilura laughs hard at those who boast of soloing.

    Well, IWD mages do have Web but the tactics of AoE immobilization requires that allies have Free Action status, which is a cheesy acquisition in IWD. They also have Fireball and Skull Trap, but yeah, in general, they are nowhere near as powerful as BG and BG2 mages. I didn't mind, though, because it was something different.

    Well, IWD is a melee-based RPG. ApR is King. And mages double ApR for warriors, so I didn't mind. Also, most people dual-class or multi-class mages to fighter in IWD because melee is so strong, and the mage part turns the fighter part into supertanker with Mirror Image.

    True, but I didn't mind mages not dominating in one IE game. Also, I'm only talking about v.1.06 of IWD. I have no interest in its expansion (where mages and other spellcasters get more powerful).
     
    Last edited: Aug 22, 2020
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  3. Generic-Giant-Spider Arcane

    Generic-Giant-Spider
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    Outside of enjoying some magic-using classes due to their theme, I'm old fashioned and prefer the visual of the knight staring down the huge dragon.

    MELEE ALL THE WAY.
     
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  4. S0rcererV1ct0r Cipher

    S0rcererV1ct0r
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    [​IMG]

    The problem is that martial classes are lackluster. Not that casters are "OP". 3/3.5e gave knockdown, disarm, cleave and other feats however, I don't think that this should be feats. Should be feats which every martial class has at lv 5. and fighters should get shield bash, low kick(...) and other stuff. And if high level zombie/skeleton undead supernatural abilities like auras, why not give this abilities to supernatural martial classes too? Rangers, the ability to put nasty poisons and other stuff in their arrows and having cool ways to fire his arrow, tame beasts and so on, could make then far more interesting.

    But since you like more melee games, did you played the Dark Sun games? Shattered Lands and Wake of the Ravager?
     
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  5. Ol' Willy Magister

    Ol' Willy
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    [​IMG]
     
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  6. S0rcererV1ct0r Cipher

    S0rcererV1ct0r
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    Dark Sun is a high magical version of mad max.

    Even your house pet can have some psionic power on dark sun. City states are ruled by sorcerer kings which are ALL epic level defilers/psion. The unique reason to why wizards(preservers and defilers) are rare, is because there are a stigma on using magical powers and the sorcerer kings wanna a mnopoly over it. And who "freed" Tyr? Veiled alliance. a group of magicians...

    [​IMG]
    https://darksun.fandom.com/wiki/Borys

    If a human can become this draconic creature, your setting is not a low magic setting. Low magical setting are like Conan, where there are few magicians per country and they power comes with great cost and risk.
     
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  7. Lilura RPG Codex Dragon Lady

    Lilura
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    Played them many years ago, but playing them now doesn't suit my agenda.

    I don't favor melee, ranged, magic or stealthy playstyles/builds. It depends on the RPG and the implementation of mechanics.
     
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  8. Thac0 Hopeless Optimist Patron

    Thac0
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    Do not forget the worst initiative system known to man, somehow achieving the massive feat of combining the disadvantages of individual and party initiative without either ones strengths.
     
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  9. Morii Educated

    Morii
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    [​IMG]
     
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  10. Nifft Batuff Arbiter

    Nifft Batuff
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    BG2 made me appreciate Menzoberranzan.
     
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  11. mondblut Arcane

    mondblut
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    In a same way as prostitution saves a woman from dying of starvation - sort of.
     
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  12. Technomancer Learned

    Technomancer
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    Ikr? Especially kobolds Xaurips, mindflayers Vithracks, spriggans Delemgans, golems Animats, death knights Death Guards, banshees Cean Gŵlas and how can we forget vampires and ghouls. Uh...I mean Fampyrs and Guls. Totally not lifted stuff.
     
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  13. S0rcererV1ct0r Cipher

    S0rcererV1ct0r
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    Except that BG2 is a masterpeice. In your analogy with prostitution, a woman can get diseases and mistreatment but can also get a high luxurious life. A chick got millionaire by putting her virginity in a action house.
     
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  14. slasher 2 Patron

    slasher
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    Xaurip camp in bg1 was cool, it was genocide
     
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  15. mondblut Arcane

    mondblut
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    Yeah. She's still a slut.
     
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  16. Mr. Magniloquent Savant

    Mr. Magniloquent
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    The connections between the areas are abundant. That was a reckless misstep for someone claiming to be THE authority on all things Baldur's Gate. I'll chock that one up to being addled from overzealous hormone therapy. Do you concede your error, or shall we proceed?
    [​IMG]
     
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  17. Sergiu64 Arcane

    Sergiu64
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    Why does everything have to be related? If the world is big - there might very well be issues going on that are separate for each other.

    BG 1 had this thing where most dungeons you hit were set up by the Iron Throne - but the game was not nearly as good as BG2. Just cause BG2's formula was followed up with so many bad imitations - does not mean that BG2 didn't nail it.

    Anyway - BG2's strength is itemzation, encounter design and an unleashed interpretation of 2nd edition.
     
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  18. Luckmann Arcane Zionist Agent

    Luckmann
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    You're vastly overrated.
    Bullshit. I've always said that BG1 is better than BG2 in everything except a technical sense.
     
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  19. Joseph Stalin Totally not Auraculum

    Joseph Stalin
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    In case you haven't noticed yet, lads, this is one of Lilura's sock accounts.
     
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  20. oldmanpaco Master of Siestas

    oldmanpaco
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    I hate that I agree with this. Soloing any IE game or games inspired by it (POE1/2, PFK) is just an extended exercise in kiting and exploiting game mechanics. What's even the point?
     
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  21. Lilura RPG Codex Dragon Lady

    Lilura
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    I was talking about commentators (blog, YouTube) and "journalists." Of course, there are quite a few forum posters who share that view, and they are just as important. I remember Jaesun often saying BG1 > BG2. That guy had good taste.
     
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  22. Lilura RPG Codex Dragon Lady

    Lilura
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    BG2 is not a masterpiece lol.

    In Liluran estimation, it is not even a top 10 all-time RPG.

    BG2 is RPG for commonfolk. Elite is RPGs like Fallout and Jagged Alliance 2.
     
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  23. jackofshadows Savant

    jackofshadows
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    Since when did you started resort to yourself in a third person? That's... too much, really.
     
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  24. S0rcererV1ct0r Cipher

    S0rcererV1ct0r
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    Wrong, most "commonfolk" nowadays plays Diablo 3, Faggout 4/76 and dragon age inquisition. In fact, THAC0 would melt the brain of the 2020 average player.
     
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  25. Lilura RPG Codex Dragon Lady

    Lilura
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    Liluran commentary does not formally acknowledge the existence of post-Renaissance. I would say post-Renaissance is worse than commonfolk: ape-like, and beneath contempt.

    I'm always ready to talk about THAC0. Indeed, I love THAC0.

    [​IMG]
     
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