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Baldur's Gate Baldur's Gate 2 is vastly overrated

Discussion in 'BioWare' started by Gumar, Aug 20, 2020.

  1. Lonely Vazdru Pimp my Title

    Lonely Vazdru
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    Wow ! Bg1 vs BG2, which is better and why ? What an original, new, and tought provoking question !
    :nocountryforshitposters:

    There was a time when this kind of shit thread would have been retardoed or merged before reaching page 2. Now it spawns 5 pages of "fascinating" discussion in a day. I guess Dylan had it right : times they are a changin'. Can't wait for BG3 !
    :popamole:
     
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  2. Swen Educated Shitposter

    Swen
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    [​IMG]
     
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  3. Zboj Lamignat Arcane

    Zboj Lamignat
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    BG1 is a bit like POE1, only multiplied. What I mean by that is that it is a game that extremely lucked out on release date/circumstances and, as such, became a symbol of "Crpg revival" and a childhood classic for many current day hardcore crpg connoisseurs. It also has an unquestionable status of a game that will be mentioned by people in any crpg discussion, top ever list, retrospection etc., even if they never played it. Does it deserve all that? Who cares.

    BG2 ported over many BG1's flaws, but it has good and varied encounters, amazing itemization, many huge, memorable, quests that instill a real sense of adventure, improved char/party building a bit (still poor, but improved). It also got rid of gameplay consisting of clearing the fog of war from rts maps leftover from before the development change and minimized the "A little girls asks you to find her cat. The cat's corpse is 20 meters away. You give that cat to the girl. End." quest design.

    Ultimately, I guess both games are overrated and a big factor behind the catastrophic extinction of crpgs in the first decade of xxi century.
     
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  4. maximusriley Literate

    maximusriley
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    Weren't BG1 and 2 the games that saved CRPGs from extinction? That showed that games like that could still be viable and profitable? To me, they're some of the most amazing games I've ever played, and not overrated in the slightest. I'd have to wait until Mass Effect to have the same kind of "Holy shit, this is amazing!" reaction that I had when I booted up BG1 for the first time.
     
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  5. kangaxx Educated

    kangaxx
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    Genuinely interested, why do you think BG1 & 2 contributed to the relative extinction of CRPGs immediately after their release?
     
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  6. Zboj Lamignat Arcane

    Zboj Lamignat
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    Mostly reinforcing the image of a successful crpg as a storyfag iso rtwp game with romances and funneh/quirky/sexy npcs with lots of (poorly written) dialogue. Which then steadily devolved into 3d more-or-less open world action games with some stats that pretty much equal crpg genre in the eyes of a normie today, while everything else withered and died.
     
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  7. kangaxx Educated

    kangaxx
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    Do you think titles such as Deus Ex and SS2 contributed to this 'decline'?
     
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  8. Zboj Lamignat Arcane

    Zboj Lamignat
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    No, they are their own thing (that also declined and pretty much died). I'm also one of the people who love SS2 et al., but really don't see them as crpgs. It's true that many popamole shooters have inventory, level ups etc. these days, but I don't think turn of the century fps/crpg hybrids had much to do with that.
     
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  9. Infinitron I post news Patron

    Infinitron
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    Grab the Codex by the pussy Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pathfinder: Kingmaker
    Wait, Rieltar? The Iron Throne leader?

    Also you're misspelling Ellesime.
     
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  10. Sweeper Magister Zionist Agent

    Sweeper
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  11. Joseph Stalin Totally not Auraculum

    Joseph Stalin
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    Jesus Christ, I've mispelled horribly. I meant Rielev.

    Someone also posted "citation needed" when I stated that Ellesime travelled the world prior to the events of the second game - this is confirmed in our conversation with Prism in Baldur's Gate I - he saw her on the outskirts of Evereska, Xan's home city.
     
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  12. Gumar Barely Literate

    Gumar
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    Baldur's Gate 2 is definitely not a "shit" game, the epithet many of the enlightened posters here are putting up for me.
    Secondly, the rant was because its highly overrated as the "best RPG" of all times. It's definitely not a work of art. Its a mediocre or an above-average game, simply because majority of the "vast" and "generalist" games fail to produce artistic things. They get lost in the mist.

    Divinity Original sin combat was praised tremendously. That was probably the biggest reason for the success of that game. IE combat is decidedly inferior to divinity combat. You feel more satisfied in the control you have over your characters and the ease of using every option in your inventory to your advantage. scrolls, wands, environmental variables weren't mostly touched in IE games, as the gear and loot were extremely specific to certain classes, that you almost always had to sell 90% of what you found.

    Dragon Age's combat was nothing special but the cutscenes, the personality and the way its characters drove emotion into their dialogues and faces were superb. Its cutscenes could make a mini-movie in itself. Plus, its art was 3D done right, after messing around in the two Neverwinters. Its story again was not special but the way it was paced and described was superb. Its Lore unfolded slowly, (courtesly of being a new game) and you were always intrigued by the new codex discoveries.
    After that, the series went downhill sadly, especially in the artistic sense.

    Baldur's Gate 2 could be made into a dozen small mini-games with some extensions. however, stitching it all together was not a very good idea.

    BG2 had sporadic stuff that was brilliant. For example, Watcher's Keep was a genuinely good dungeon which used the same formula of going down and down into hell itself, first initiated by diablo (or maybe some 1980s game that I don't know of) and it was widely praised in the Endless Paths of Od Nua, in Pillars of Eternity as well. The Umar hills quest also gave a low level, hero to the rescue vibe with a good horror story to the boot, but again, it seemed far too disconnected to the main plot.

    Also, Diablo was more than combat (simply because people preferred its endlessly repetitive combat is not my reason to like it). Its atmosphere and music were excellent. The creepy claustrophobic feeling of descending, the ancient moldy tomes with excellent dialogues and haunting backstories of heaven and hell gave the game a truly distinctive feel. Diablo 3 ruined the atmosphere with the World of Warcraft animations and colorful flowers everywhere.

    BG1 gets a bad rep because of the game is somewhat boring, but its made to be a low level, mystery adventure. It doesn't pretend to have godlike monsters, world-ending scenarios and mad wizards. It was intended as quaint little game and it succeeded in reaching those small heights. BG2 tried to play God and somehow failed to reach that pinnacle, artistically.

    I haven't played torment yet, but I suspect that the praise it gets is genuine because Planescape Torment didn't pretend to do stuff, it didn't want to. It contented itself with a philosophical plot with a tremendous variety of decision making.
     
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  13. Blutwurstritter Learned

    Blutwurstritter
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    BG2 is praised because it does pretty much all aspects of rpg's better than average. And yes, that can get you to the top since all aspects of a game matter for an overall enjoyable experience and it also causes the game the be popular with many people even if their opinions differ on what aspect is especially important to a rpg. Being great in a single aspect cannot compensate for being terrible at everything else. You may get a handful of people that value that aspect over everything else, this group will praise the game and put it on a pedestal but everyone else will see a shit game with one good quality. I don't think that BG 2 will win a contest when you focus on a single part, like writing/story, combat system, world design, quest design, but it certainly scores high in all those departments. Only the magic system and the feeling of being a powerful mage might be a point where it takes the crown.

    Your criticism of BG 2 is also very weak. The games that you laud do the exact same things that you criticize in BG2 even worse. Athkatla beats any city of the games that you named. Denerim is a joke, Ostagar isn't much better and Icewind Dale doesn't even have a city to speak of. The same goes for Villains. Also think for a moment what the word "side quest" means and then ponder about your complaint that they aren't connected to the main quest. Do you also complain at a first class buffet that the servings are too large ?
     
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  14. NJClaw Ontopolover by choice Patron

    NJClaw
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    Come on, we all know that BG2 is praised because you can get tasty elven pussy in three different flavors.
     
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  15. NJClaw Ontopolover by choice Patron

    NJClaw
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    My bad, FOUR different flavors.
     
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  16. octavius Prestigious Gentleman Arcane

    octavius
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    Oh my!
     
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  17. Blutwurstritter Learned

    Blutwurstritter
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    3 was actually acceptable. Half elves only count for 1/2 in Elf-Algebra, although some scholars insist that all Beamdog elements should be considered to have a measure of zero, which would bring us down to 2.5. You ought consider a refreshment course in pussy calculus at your local college.
     
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  18. Unreal Savant

    Unreal
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    icewind dale > baldurps gate
     
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  19. Mr. Magniloquent Savant

    Mr. Magniloquent
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    In Act II, you're in a capital city of a wealthy nation and need to raise a bunch of coin to advance the plot. ANY quest that is profitable is appropriate at that point. ANY. A Keep with a Troll infestation, a village with a roaming monster problem, a merchant town in a dispute with militant druids, a bored dragon plotting revenge. They're all wonderful quests with cool locations, interesting monsters to fight, and awesome loot to plunder. These are just the quests that happen outside Athkatla. The city itself has its own wealth of interesting an engaging quests that bring the city alive. Troublesome cultists in the Temple district? Intrigues at the docks? Liberating slaves in the Slums? Murders in the Bridge District? Secrets and restless dead in the Graveyard District?

    There are so many well made quests that weave into each other through each district, yet somehow this game world isn't finely crafted? All of these things happening in the game world independent of your character, somehow doesn't create a vivid backdrop? Your criticism is that all of these opportunities to earn the required coin to advance to the next act don't have a narrative function to the central plot, and are therefore superfluous? Absurd. Does the game force you to take every single quest, when you could follow the plot strictly by the time you get to the Slums? You are suffering diminished capacity to think from all that blood loss. Put the razor down, Edgelord.
     
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  20. Kainan Educated

    Kainan
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    :rpgcodex:
     
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  21. Immortal Arcane

    Immortal
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    Why? Cause we as the player wanted to do it first?
     
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  22. Tyranicon A Memory of Eternity Developer

    Tyranicon
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    Baagh elves. Real men romance ogres.
     
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  23. Lilura RPG Codex Dragon Lady

    Lilura
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    Thing is, the vast majority don't weave into each other at all. Instead, they are completely separated from each other, with no hint at all or suggestion of each other (much like the non-contiguous maps). This is the definition of NOT finely crafted. It is the definition of hotchpotch. It is lazy, thoughtless design. The opposite to Arcanum.

    Tarant SHITS on Athkatla. Swordflight's Calimport does, too.

    It does if you like to derp about in themeparks.
     
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  24. S0rcererV1ct0r Cipher

    S0rcererV1ct0r
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    Is the WORST combat by far in any CRPG.
    • Awful spells ever
    • Worst armor mechanics ever
    • Slow animations in a TB game
    • Stat sticky itemization
    • Cooldowns
    • Archers that can't hit a mammoth at 14m
    • (...)
    Yep. Spells on BG2 are so great.

    Icewind Dale(not the EE, beamdog actually fixed it) has only extremely lackluster spells.

    Wrong. Completely wrong. You use a lot of different weapons depending on the enemy. For eg, a clay golem appears? Switch to blunt magical weapons.

    To what? Produce uggly dumb half ogres?
     
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  25. Lilura RPG Codex Dragon Lady

    Lilura
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    That is actually one of IWD's merits, not flaws. It managed to reign in spellcasters by limiting their repertoire as well as the effectiveness of that repertoire through itemization contraints and combat encounter design.

    Melee is big in IWD, so spellcasters play a supporting role. However, that role is profound. Consider Haste doubling ApR, along with the following spells:

    I like how IWD slays players who don't buff, debuff and ward.
     
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