Baldur's Gate Baldur's Gate 2 is vastly overrated

[d1r]

Inb4 Sirens in BG1EE can charm Skeletons by giving them a kiss on their "cheeks".

 

[Thac0]

No they made it “harder” by removing the immunity that Skeleton Summons have to mind flayers. The main danger with Mind Flayers is that they do the Eat Brain, which in BG, if successfully rolled they zap you of 5 Intelligence. If your Intelligence drops to 0, then you die. Skeletons, in the rule books, and in the original BG games, are immune to such an attack because they don’t have brains. But Beamdog decided that such a strategy was too “cheesy” so they “fixed” it, and now they too are vulnerable to being devoured by Mind Flayers, despite it making no sense at all.

On the one hand I am philosophically opposed to removing cheese as a failure of game design. Cheese is a safety valve against bad game design or bad luck. Entire Dungeon full of annoying enemies that just drags? Applaud my supreme bullshit combo.

On the other hand who cares, it's not like Beholders are overly threatening when you have as many high level casters as in BG2 and memorise the proper mental defense spells. I guess they can be dangerous to melee martial heavy groups when they suck a brain in the heat of the battle.

 

[Silly Germans]

BG2 has a lot more interesting locations and quests overall than BG1, and mid to high level offers alot more combat options with all the spells that become available, so BG2 easily takes the cake unless you are pettish about particular details.

 

[Joseph Stalin]

One point I will give to the OP - the game, story wise, is a mess. And you don't need to listen to me - every person on the developement team will readily admit that. Just scour the various interviews - they outright concede that the plot was so rushed, cut up and stitched together with duct tape, that they thought they would be shat on upon release. Just to give a few examples:
1. There JUST SO HAPPEN to be two major locations/quest lines associated with Amaunator. They have no connection to one another. This is pure accident.
2. Firkraag is supposed to be behind both the de'Arnise Keep invasion and the slave trade happening in Athkatla. This is never properly signalled.
3. Bodhi being Irenicus' sister was tacked on at the last second. Initially Imoen was supposed to be killed in Irenicus' Dungeon - a plot point, unfortunately, recanted very late in development. Thus, there would only be one Bhaalspawn within the game. But, since Imoen DID survive, now we needed someone to receive HER soul in turn. Thus Bodhi the Magical Vampire Sister. Seriously people, she travels to Spellhold. Across running water.
4. The initial reason why Irenicus kidnapped CHARNAME has been completely cut. No, it wasn't supposed to be in order to steal his soul. If that were the case, he would've immediately performed the ritual upon taking us to his dungeon. This idea came thanks to Spellhold and the magical implements there - which is also never properly signalled. --- This one has been confirmed by the lead writer.
5. Cyric's involvement has been completely cut, and only hinted at in Throne of Bhaal.

And so much more! As much as I love the game, the plot is a beautifully stitched together Frankenstein's Monster.

 

[Tyranicon]

BG2 doesn't start with a rat killing quest, so at least it has that.

 

[Goldschmidt]

Baldur's Gate 2 is vastly overrated. It's a complete mess.

Is that you, Vault Dweller?

 

[Joseph Stalin]

One point I will give to the OP - the game, story wise, is a mess. And you don't need to listen to me - every person on the developement team will readily admit that. Just scour the various interviews - they outright concede that the plot was so rushed, cut up and stitched together with duct tape, that they thought they would be shat on upon release. Just to give a few examples:
1. There JUST SO HAPPEN to be two major locations/quest lines associated with Amaunator. They have no connection to one another. This is pure accident.
2. Firkraag is supposed to be behind both the de'Arnise Keep invasion and the slave trade happening in Athkatla. This is never properly signalled.
3. Bodhi being Irenicus' sister was tacked on at the last second. Initially Imoen was supposed to be killed in Irenicus' Dungeon - a plot point, unfortunately, recanted very late in development. Thus, there would only be one Bhaalspawn within the game. But, since Imoen DID survive, now we needed someone to receive HER soul in turn. Thus Bodhi the Magical Vampire Sister. Seriously people, she travels to Spellhold. Across running water.
4. The initial reason why Irenicus kidnapped CHARNAME has been completely cut. No, it wasn't supposed to be in order to steal his soul. If that were the case, he would've immediately performed the ritual upon taking us to his dungeon. This idea came thanks to Spellhold and the magical implements there - which is also never properly signalled. --- This one has been confirmed by the lead writer.
5. Cyric's involvement has been completely cut, and only hinted at in Throne of Bhaal.

And so much more! As much as I love the game, the plot is a beautifully stitched together Frankenstein's Monster.

Oh, sorry, there is exactly ONE line in Baldur's Gate II left from Cyric's involvement. When you are captured in Spellhold, and share that bizarre dream with Imoen, and you are about to fight the Essence of Bhaal, she says "He has shown me... how to make it vulnerable." The "he" was supposed to be Cyric, aiding the various Bhaalspawn from the shadows.

 

[Nano]

I dunno how people could prefer BG1 over 2. I get liking the low-level adventuring feel, but BG1 just lacks substance, especially without mods. It's barely anything more than a tech demo for the IE.

 

[Joseph Stalin]

A few more things sprang back to mine mind:
1. In Baldur's Gate I, it is outright confirmed that Ellisime was travelling the world, supposedly looking for Joneleth. This plot point was completely dropped/cut.
2. The fact that Irenicus took a whole entourage with him into exile, and that together they initially did a lot of good out in the world, is only mentioned in passing by Ellisime and Rieltar. Apparently this was supposed to be a bigger plot point.

 

[cruel]

BG2 is easily in top 3 RPGs ever created, and it will probably stay this way even if we discuss it in 2034 or something. No other game did the whole package better (combat, story, quests, companions, music, exploration, itemization, monster / location variety, memorable moments, etc.). The holy grail of RPG design forever.

 

[kangaxx]

BG2 doesn't start with a rat killing quest, so at least it has that.

I see this as a negative. One of my favourite gayming moments is flapping pathetically with a wooden stick at rats, set to epic battle music.

 

[NJClaw]

Thus Bodhi the Magical Vampire Sister. Seriously people, she travels to Spellhold. Across running water.

She is a strong independent woman, she can do anything she sets her mind to.

 

[Hobo Elf]

I played both BG1 & 2 as they came out and for some reason BG2 always failed to grasp me like the first game. To this day I have still not finished it once but have done multiple full playthroughs of BG1.

 

[jungl]

I came in this thread expecting at least ONE good argument. Lol at diablo 2 being scawwy game that is why every 12 year old in the world at the time was playing it. Every map in that game was a giant football stadium for kids to run around smashing monster pinatas that reward you cool gore and loot.

 

[Ol' Willy]

All Inbred Engine games are overrated. Except one - and this one is saved only by excellent writing.

 

[Mr. Magniloquent]

OP is a suspected Alt. My guess is that's it's Swen trolling.

He seems to have problem with his games delivering ample content. Athkatla is a large fantasy city. It's in a fantasy nation. Lots of people (and creatures) live there. Things happen. Those things provide the player with opportunities to earn money required to advance the plot. The player need not complete them all, as someone who knows what they are doing can come up with all the money before ever leaving Waukeen's Promenade. Players are welcome to try that route if things like "fun" and "choice" lack appeal, but I wouldn't recommend skipping all the glorious content. The spell combat is also glorious, and one of the most enduring qualities the game has. It's varied venues for adventuring is a virtue--none of which are out of place or shoe-horned into the setting. His complaints, if any, should be directed at The Forgotten Realms, rather than Baldur's Gate 2 itself. The art is lovely. Grounded in historical realities with fantasy embellishments.

 

[Tyranicon]

BG2 is easily in top 3 RPGs ever created, and it will probably stay this way even if we discuss it in 2034 or something. No other game did the whole package better (combat, story, quests, companions, music, exploration, itemization, monster / location variety, memorable moments, etc.). The holy grail of RPG design forever.

If I have to pick the best generalist cRPG (in both the sense that it is well-rounded and targeted towards a wide audience), it would probably be BG2. I get that being a generalist game is part of the argument against it, but there's nothing with being a jack of all trades, especially a good one at that.

It's between BG2 and the first Fallouts, and I just have better memories of BG2.

 

[NJClaw]

All Inbred Engine games are overrated. Except one - and this one is saved only by excellent writing.

The writing in Icewind Dale is, indeed, fantastic, and we can consider Icewind Dale 2 as a game made in a modified version of the Infinity Engine, so your statement isn't wrong.

 

[jackofshadows]

Not a fan of this game as well as IE-based games in general but this is a fine speciment. Its packed with stuff too much though, they overdid it content wise. Some parts are barely combines with each other, well, just like troll OP stated. But to call it overrated? Nah. I mean, there's not much games like this, to say the least. And very few are capable to give this kind of fairy feeling of adventure like this one.

BG1, on the other hand, seem to be overrated a bit here to my taste. Compare to sequel it does have better aesthetic, story progression is more coherent, obviously and some are just prefer low-level D&D journey which is a mistery to me (maybe due to the fact that I've never played PnP D&D). But BG2 has better exploration, quests, interesting cast (subjectively speaking) extra combat options so overall it provide a more abundant experience.

 

[Joseph Stalin]

OP is a suspected Alt. My guess is that's it's Swen trolling.

He seems to have problem with his games delivering ample content. Athkatla is a large fantasy city. It's in a fantasy nation. Lots of people (and creatures) live there. Things happen. Those things provide the player with opportunities to earn money required to advance the plot. The player need not complete them all, as someone who knows what they are doing can come up with all the money before ever leaving Waukeen's Promenade. Players are welcome to try that route if things like "fun" and "choice" lack appeal, but I wouldn't recommend skipping all the glorious content. The spell combat is also glorious, and one of the most enduring qualities the game has. It's varied venues for adventuring is a virtue--none of which are out of place or shoe-horned into the setting. His complaints, if any, should be directed at The Forgotten Realms, rather than Baldur's Gate 2 itself. The art is lovely. Grounded in historical realities with fantasy embellishments.

Wait, is Swen THE Swen?

 

[King Crispy]

As I awoke, I found myself in a most curious predicament. I was clearly captive, held fast in what appears to be some sort of cage, then in turn in what seems to be some sort of laboratory.

I ached, although I was not wounded. What had transpired to see me held like some wild animal in this strange place?

I mattered not; here I was until I found some way to free myself, and my companions are here as well. Yes, even the insipid Minsc somehow survived and I could hear him moaning and whispering to his imaginary space hamster again. Maybe I should just leave him here and be done with it. And, bah, it seems my idiotic sister is locked in this chamber with me as well, still unable to fend for herself or to extricate herself out of every single situation she's always gotten herself in to. Must I do *everything*, dear Imoen?

What is this? A visitor. Could this be my captor? He strides in, an odd-looking man. His shaven pate and strange clothing mark him as some sort of wizard, like myself.

He approaches my cage. What will he say to me? Shall I allow him to address me first? Wouldn't it be better if I asserted myself and let him know clearly he has not harmed me in any way?

Yes. Yes, I shall. I shall speak first. Prepare yourself, villain. This is what I choose to say to you:

























"'sup, Drog?"

 

[Joseph Stalin]

Lilura, just because you barely know anything about the series doesn't mean you need to rate everything "shit". Continue with that behaviour and I'll just add you into the ignore list.

EDIT: And into the "ignore list" she went. By the way, copying statistics from the game manual and game guides whilst over-saturating every single sentence with adjectives make for a shitty blog.

EDIT 2: Looks like I made a transsexual angry. Allow me to have a sensible chuckle.

 

[octavius]

When mentally challenged little primates don't have arguments they resort to the age old tactic of throwing feces. It's amusing for a while, but then the little Tiax monkey gets tiresome and earns its place in the iggy bin with many other shitposters.

 

[Tigranes]

Listen, Lilura is a WORLD FAMOUS BLOGGER, didn't you know? That means she cannot have a normal conversation with people, every post has to be a micro-promotional extravaganza.

I'm curious about critiques of BG2 as incoherent carnival. I agree, but I also wonder if the game would have been anywhere as fondly remembered and widely celebrated if it had edited away 20% of its content and provided more consistent themes. I imagine that a lot of people actually aren't that bothered by it in practice, for better or for worse, and they just remember the spectacular bits in BG2 they liked the most, whether it was running a playhouse, or having that playhouse open up a portal into interplanar prisons, or whatnot. (Same goes for DOS1/2).

I imagine BG3 will crank this up, Larian being Larian - MIND FLAYERS! but then MIND FLAYERS HANGING OUT WITH DEATHCLAWS! by the way ANYBODY WANT SOME CHEESE?

 

[Silly Germans]

When mentally challenged little primates don't have arguments they resort to the age old tactic of throwing faces. It's amusing for a while, but then the little Tiax monkey gets tiresome and earns its place in the iggy bin with many other shitposters.

Throwing faces is an olympic discipline, true athletes give it their all. The dilettantes on this site aren't even close to true masters of the art,

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