Baldur's Gate Baldur's Gate 3 Early Access Thread [GAME RELEASED, GO TO NEW THREAD]

[Harthwain]

Maybe they will figure out how to keep more than three companions in the game after the first chapter!

Not going to happen. The reason they are doing it this way is because with less companions you have to play again to see their content. It also reduces the amount of companions they have to make. Since they are limited to 3 anyway, they could make 6-9 companions (assuming the player makes his own character, rather than picking one of the origins instead) and it'd suffice for 2-3 playthroughs. I heard they could throw in non-orgin companions as well (most likely temporary characters).

 

[Shrimp]

Honestly if it's implemented properly I don't really see the problem with being restricted to only having some of your companions stay with you after a certain point in the game.
Having 2/3 of the available party members sit in your camp and only get taken out whenever you need them for their respective companion quests is fucking stupid. Especially when the companions' dialogue doesn't reflect the fact they've been doing nothing for 90% of the game and instead makes them sound like they've been with you on every journey since the beginning.

 

[Cryomancer]

And the cost of casting magic - in general - should be higher, so you would weight your options before using a spell beforehand. The rest-spamming simply throws the whole supposed spell-management aspect out of the window too.

Rest spamming can be solved by :

• Making time matters and resting taking resources like Kingmaker
• Only allowing resting in certain places. The underdark area of Dark Sun : Wake of the Ravager is hard due it.
• Allowing rests in specific places and consuming resources like Solasta did

The way that BG3 handles resting is just the worst. You can rest at any moment and is teleported to a camp completely dissociated from the main game. I know that resting is not good in BG1/2 either, but there are tons of games with good resting mechanics.

As for weight the options before casting a spell, that depends. On low levels, sure. A lv 6 magic user on Swords & Wizardry can cast 8 spells in the entire day. And on lv 1, you can only cast 2 spells one which must be read magic, so you can only use a spell per day. However, at high level, it is different. at lv 15, you can cast 30 spells per day(5/5/5/5/4/4/2). And 3E/PF1e made spells far less scarce. My lv 20 Dhampir Pact Wizard specialized on necromancy on Kingmaker(call of the wild + races unleashed) can cast 7 tier 9 spells. I literally cleared 3 floors of the tenebrous depths dungeon without needing to rest.

 

[Cael]

And the cost of casting magic - in general - should be higher, so you would weight your options before using a spell beforehand. The rest-spamming simply throws the whole supposed spell-management aspect out of the window too.

Rest spamming can be solved by :

• Making time matters and resting taking resources like Kingmaker
• Only allowing resting in certain places. The underdark area of Dark Sun : Wake of the Ravager is hard due it.
• Allowing rests in specific places and consuming resources like Solasta did

The way that BG3 handles resting is just the worst. You can rest at any moment and is teleported to a camp completely dissociated from the main game. I know that resting is not good in BG1/2 either, but there are tons of games with good resting mechanics.

As for weight the options before casting a spell, that depends. On low levels, sure. A lv 6 magic user on Swords & Wizardry can cast 8 spells in the entire day. And on lv 1, you can only cast 2 spells one which must be read magic, so you can only use a spell per day. However, at high level, it is different. at lv 15, you can cast 30 spells per day(5/5/5/5/4/4/2). And 3E/PF1e made spells far less scarce. My lv 20 Dhampir Pact Wizard specialized on necromancy on Kingmaker(call of the wild + races unleashed) can cast 7 tier 9 spells. I literally cleared 3 floors of the tenebrous depths dungeon without needing to rest.

The Vancian style was made on the assumption that not all your prepared spells would be useful throughout the day. It was the 3.x change where you can prepare spells at any time and it only took 15 min that really crashed the system. It allowed the scry, prepare for 15 min, teleport and kill tactic that made high level play laughable. Keep it to the hours required of 1st Ed and spellcasting becomes less OP.

 

[Anonona]

The way that BG3 handles resting is just the worst. You can rest at any moment and is teleported to a camp completely dissociated from the main game. I know that resting is not good in BG1/2 either, but there are tons of games with good resting mechanics.

It may actually end up being better than you are giving it credit for. It seems there are a certain numbers of quest that have a sort of "time" flag. So, if you take a long rest, the quest progress without you into a worse than desirable result. For example, it seems that if you accept a quest about saving a child, and then take a long rest, once you arrive where the kid will be dead. On the contrary, if you go there without taking a single long rest, then you will be able to save his life. So it seems that taking too many long rest may actually penalize you and bar you from getting certain results and rewards. I cannot say how many instances of this are in the EA, but it can be quite an interesting way to adapt resting if Larian actually implement interesting consequences in the final games for most quests.

Also it may affect the tadpole somehow in the final release, it would make sense. Sadly, I think it doesn't in the EA, but can't be sure.

 

[Yosharian]

The way that BG3 handles resting is just the worst. You can rest at any moment and is teleported to a camp completely dissociated from the main game. I know that resting is not good in BG1/2 either, but there are tons of games with good resting mechanics.

It may actually end up being better than you are giving it credit for. It seems there are a certain numbers of quest that have a sort of "time" flag. So, if you take a long rest, the quest progress without you into a worse than desirable result. For example, it seems that if you accept a quest about saving a child, and then take a long rest, once you arrive where the kid will be dead. So it seems that taking too many long rest may actually penalize you and bar you from getting certain results and rewards. I cannot say how many instances of this are in the EA, but it can be quite an interesting way to adapt resting if Larian actually implement interesting consequences in the final games for most quests.

Also it may affect the tadpole somehow in the final release, it would make sense. Sadly, I think it doesn't in the EA, but can't be sure.

With these systems you often end up with this weird quasi-realism where certain quests are subject to time-related penalties and others aren't, so you have to play 'guess the developer's intent' by trying to predict which quests are time-constrained and which aren't.

At least in Kingmaker it tells you exactly when the quest will fail.

 

[Reinhardt]

And even the thief. Why scout for traps when you can send your skeleton to trigger any possible trap?

See - even your traps are just pew-pew. What if trap effect is something like death spell which would have no effect on skellington but will rape your party, because you are now sure it's safe passage?

 

[Anonona]

With these systems you often end up with this weird quasi-realism where certain quests are subject to time-related penalties and others aren't, so you have to play 'guess the developer's intent' by trying to predict which quests are time-constrained and which aren't.

At least in Kingmaker it tells you exactly when the quest will fail.

I seem to remember that there were quest in KM that were actually subjected to time limits that didn't tell you so. In chapter 1 they tell you how much time you have, but in chapter 2, the troll crisis, there is no stated time if I recall correctly. Also it did have a weird issue where certain events were time dependent, while others relay in which order you took when doing things. For example, in chapter 1, no matter how fast you go, if you visit certain places before others or rescue certain companions first, then certain events will change and the last companion will always be too tired to join you. I may be wrong with this, but even after doing it fast enough to get the Dueling Sword those events didn't change. So even in KM you sometimes had to guess what the developers intent was. Still a great system though.

Besides, I don't really see the problem with that. Many games have similar "time based events" that hide many interesting outcomes and encourage the player to explore and experiment, specially in multiple playthroughs. Playing P:KM multiple times it was always very interesting to find new things that I had missed out or trying to do things in different order to see if there was any hiding event. A bit of "mystery" can go a long way to create an illusion of a living world.

 

[Yosharian]

He doesn't see the problem!

 

[Anonona]

He doesn't see the problem!

I think not knowing can actually encourage the player to always try to limit the amount of long rest he takes, specially the first time playing. Controlling how much information the player has access to and keeping then guessing may actually lead to interesting situations where the choice of progressing or resting seems more significant that it may really be.

 

[Efe]

you get like a dozen cards getting increasingly difficulty with harsher consequences.
surely you get the hint that
A-) there are trolls
B-) they are fucking up your kingdom

 

[Anonona]

you get like a dozen cards getting increasingly difficulty with harsher consequences.
surely you get the hint that
A-) there are trolls
B-) they are fucking up your kingdom

Sure, but the issue is more about how the information is presented to the player and the time mechanics themselves. First chapter you have the mission with the timer, second chapter you get the troll crisis and the curse quest. One with timer the other one without it. First time you are playing is easy to think that only timed quest are time sensitive until you have trolls up your ass or you missed some important events. And that without mentioning the instances where the time it takes to do things isn't what matters, but the order you do them. Yet I don't want to come off as attacking PF:KM here because I actually think its system is great. Basically it actually is common sense how many of the quest you are given are timed, and it makes resting and resource management more important. But even it hides some of their timers and some quest had unexpected consequences if you took to long. If anything, I hope BG 3 actually goes into a similar route and make most of their quest have consequences if you take too many long rests.

 

[Yosharian]

you get like a dozen cards getting increasingly difficulty with harsher consequences.
surely you get the hint that
A-) there are trolls
B-) they are fucking up your kingdom

NARRATOR: he did not get the hint

 

[Larianshill]

Honestly if it's implemented properly I don't really see the problem with being restricted to only having some of your companions stay with you after a certain point in the game.

I've said this before, but I used to have a problem with this, but now I mostly don't. People like Astarion and Wyll would keep getting benched in my party anywy, I wouldn't even notice their absence.

 

[Cryomancer]

pew-pew. What if trap effect is something like death spell which would have no effect on skellington but will rape your party, because you are now sure it's safe passage?

You have no clue about what you are talking about. Death spell duration is instantaneous, so when the party reaches the spell, the spell will be already have been triggered with no effect on the undead, or killed a low level summon... For you, every spell is "pew pew", even Tenser's Transformation...

People like Astarion and Wyll would keep getting benched in my party anywy, I wouldn't even notice their absence.

Honestly, I din't liked a single Early Access companion. Not even shadowheart which seems to be the most popular.

 

[Reinhardt]

You have no clue about what you are talking about. Death spell duration is instantaneous, so when the party reaches the spell, the spell will be already have been triggered with no effect on the undead, or killed a low level summon... For you, every spell is "pew pew", even Tenser's Transformation...

You know there is different kind of traps? Some can fire more than once, so it will wait for your party even if skellington walk back and forth, some can trigger by weight so skellington won't trigger it but armored fighter will do and so on.
It's you who have no clue.

 

[Cryomancer]

You have no clue about what you are talking about. Death spell duration is instantaneous, so when the party reaches the spell, the spell will be already have been triggered with no effect on the undead, or killed a low level summon... For you, every spell is "pew pew", even Tenser's Transformation...

You know there is different kind of traps? Some can fire more than once, so it will wait for your party even if skellington walk back and forth, some can trigger by weight so skellington won't trigger it but armored fighter will do and so on.
It's you who have no clue.

Wands which can be used to cast multiple spells only can cast up to tier 4 magic. Death spell is a 6th level spell. Levitation can also be used to not trigger any "pressing" trap.

 

[Reinhardt]

Nigga, death was just an example. There is lots of not pew pew spells that can mindfuck your party.

 

[Storyfag]

Nigga, death was just an example. There is lots of not pew pew spells that can mindfuck your party.

TBH, there aren't enough. Time and again I see official modules come up with shit that PCs cannot hope to replicate. Disgusting.

 

[Cryomancer]

IDK iuf someone already brought it but :


How George Ziets would make BG3

I’ve always thought that the struggles of a new FR deity could be pretty interesting. Think about what the Bhaalspawn would be up against:

1. 1) few or no followers in a setting where a god requires worship to survive,
2. 2) no divine portfolio to speak of, and
3. 3) a fortress / headquarters that is still floating somewhere in the Abyss – not friendly territory, even for an evil PC.

Under those circumstances, I think a divine campaign would be a battle for survival. It’s suggested at the end of ToB that Cyric and his allies will be coming after you (whether the player is evil or not) because Cyric took over Bhaal’s divine portfolio. The player, as a nascent god, would be facing off against some powerful deities.

Terrible odds? Yes. But that’s great for a story hook.

Initially the player may just be staving off imminent disaster as Cyric and his friends move quickly against the player – several strong deities against a relatively weak one. I could imagine the player being forced to abandon the Throne of Bhaal and going on the run across the planes. The player’s goal would be to gain followers (faith=power), usurp the divine portfolio of another god, and carve out a base of power in the wider multiverse. Your journey could take you to some of the planes we’ve never visited in a CRPG – Mount Celestia, Limbo, and Mechanus, for example – as well as revisiting old favorites like Sigil, though seeing the City of Doors through the eyes of a minor deity could be a very different experience. In a divine-level planar campaign, the player might stir up a civil war on Mount Celestia, conquer a layer of the Abyss, or assemble an adventuring party of divine avatars. Ultimately you’d take back the Throne of Bhaal, smack down Cyric and his friends, and establish a place for yourself among the pantheon of gods.

Mechanically, it seems like a critical resource would be your divine power, which would rise with your number of followers (humans, divines, demons, or whatever), the extent of your notoriety and influence, and the importance of your divine portfolio. (The concept of divine rank could conceivably replace character level.) You’d create avatars to go adventuring in the various planes, so death wouldn’t force a reload. And as you travel the planes, you might learn ways to change or improve the traits of your avatar, or to create multiple avatars, each with different shapes and abilities, useful for different situations.

That’s just some quick brainstorming, but I think a divine-level BG3 could be a lot of fun, and the Bhaalspawn’s story could certainly go on if developers wanted to pursue it.

source : https://rpgcodex.net/article.php?id=8728

Much better than the Divinity Original sin clone : Dungeons & Kobolds edition that Larian is making. George is amazing on designing high level adventures. He made MoTB and some high level adventures for DDO(not sure, anyone can confirm?)

 

[Reinhardt]

Sounds boring as fuck.

 

[Xamenos]

Wands which can be used to cast multiple spells only can cast up to tier 4 magic. Death spell is a 6th level spell. Levitation can also be used to not trigger any "pressing" trap.

Hello there friend. I would like to ask you how your skeleton summon would deal with this nice little trap, straight from the 3.5 DMG, without a rogue. And I would like to point your attention to the "Automatic Reset" part before you answer. If ADnD stuff is fine, then 3.5 should be fine too, right? Or if this was an ADnD only discussion, I apologize for barging in without reading the beginning.

 

[Cryomancer]

Wands which can be used to cast multiple spells only can cast up to tier 4 magic. Death spell is a 6th level spell. Levitation can also be used to not trigger any "pressing" trap.

Hello there friend. I would like to ask you how your skeleton summon would deal with this nice little trap, straight from the 3.5 DMG, without a rogue. And I would like to point your attention to the "Automatic Reset" part before you answer. If ADnD stuff is fine, then 3.5 should be fine too, right? Or if this was an ADnD only discussion, I apologize for barging in without reading the beginning.


View attachment 18978

Well, on 3.5e undeads are immune to insta death effects that doesn't affect objects and if the party is adventuring in a place with a powerful lich or something similar(since this trap costs 76k gold), the players would have deathward.

On undead traits

• Immunity to any effect that requires a Fortitude save (unless the effect also works on objects or is harmless). https://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:Undead_Type

A disintegrate trap would affect a skeleton(since it affects objects) but not a finger of death or wail of the banshee.

Note that that trap has a DC to find and disarm pretty high. Only a very high level rogue can have a good chance to attempt to disarm it.

Sounds boring as fuck.

Boring for you, but how many D&D games allow you to play as a deity?

I don't think that would be great as Shadows of Amn but has more potential than any Larian game.

 

[Reinhardt]

A disintegrate trap would affect a skeleton(since it affects objects) but not a finger of death or wail of the banshee.

Nigga, no one says it will kill your skellington. I'm saying exactly opposite - you wouldn't know if there are death or mindfuck traps in corridor he "disarmed" exactly because he would be unaffected.

 

[Xamenos]

Well, on 3.5e undeads are immune to insta death effects and if the party is adventuring in a place with a powerful lich or something similar(since this trap costs 76k gold), the trap would have deathward.

On undead traits

• Immunity to any effect that requires a Fortitude save (unless the effect also works on objects or is harmless). https://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:Undead_Type

A disintegrate trap would affect a skeleton(since it affects objects) but not a finger of death or wail of the banshee

I think you might have missed the point. The skeleton summon indeed passes through the trap without harm. But then the party has to pass through, and the trap is still there. And why do you assume this is a lich trap and the party has death wards for everyone? It could easily be part of, say, a lord's treasury defences.

But anyway, the point wasn't that you might have the perfect counter for the self-resetting trap that the skeleton failed to disable. The point is that there was a self-resetting trap that the skeleton failed to disable, and you'd be fucked without the perfect counter, skeleton or no skeleton. But if you had a rogue with you, you wouldn't need to have the perfect counter for everything your DM might throw at you. The rogue would just do his job and deal with them.