Baldur's Gate Baldur's Gate 3 Pre-Release Thread [EARLY ACCESS RELEASED, GO TO NEW THREAD]

[Andhaira]

By the way, I'll repeat it here once more: the Baldur's Gate III Twitter account is, without a doubt, the most pathetic account of any upcoming game. Ever. It's clear now what we suspected initially: Google paid Larian to announce the game much, much sooner than they would've by themselves. I can bet any money I have, which is none, that at that point only the cinematic was complete.

Why would Google pay Larian to do anything? Obviously I am missing something here, does Google have a stake in Larian or something?

Also, Edwin/Edwina were way ahead of their time, a true trans character appearing in a major AAA RPG before the trans movement was a thing online. Surely they will bring them back?

Also find a way to bring back my bro Xzar; he was murdered in BGII but since true resurrection is a thing in the forgotten realms it shouldn't be too hard to have him back screaming 'What need ye dead?'

 

[Heroic Liberator]

I want my main man Baeloth to be brought back if they intend to integrate some of the Beamdog characters.

 

[Apostle Hand]

I'm sure haer dalis will be available, together with dorn, sarevok, korgan, kagain and shar-teel

 

[Heroic Liberator]

Sarevok is a decent character and it felt natural to have him in my party both as an evil character, as well as a Paladin. Truly a bro worth redeeming.

 

[Cryomancer]

Given Larian cannot even get their canon straight in their own series, I can't wait for them to start canonising things from a series they had nothing to do with, this can only end well. Although from reading the last few pages, seems Wizards already shat upon the BG2 endings/choices so what have they got to lose?

I an not a divinity fan, only liked Divine Divinity but how Divinity story is inconsistent? I an curious.

 

[Riddler]

Why would Google pay Larian to do anything? Obviously I am missing something here, does Google have a stake in Larian or something?

They want to promote Stadia.

 

[Morality Games]

When am I going to see my husbando, Dorn, though? They can't leave me hanging like this, especially with how they tease with Neera.

They don't "tease" Neera, he just mistakes a very similar character with her. As I've mentioned before, they can't put in characters who had multiple possible epilogues, since then they'd have to take your choices from previous games into account (I would be absolutely astounded if Larian did that). That leaves those characters from Baldur's Gate I who didn't either die and/or moved onto the sequel and/or wouldn't be dead due to natural causes + a handful of characters from Baldur's Gate II who had a single epilogue which left them alive and have long lifespans. And, of course, Minsc.

Why not? It has already been done before.
e.g., Viconia was definitely not romanced because she's still alive.

I thought this was common knowledge. Abdel Adrian (True neutral human fighter) is the canon Bhaalspawn, he romanced Jaheira and cheated on her with Bodhi (former elf vampire villain from BGII). Both women died, Abdel rejected godhood and remained mortal and lived out an extended life span as one of the leading citizens of Baldur's Gate until he got killed by his half brother (the last Bhaalspawn) at 139 years old. His death brought about the long delayed resurrection of Bhaal who resumed his original portfolio.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

When am I going to see my husbando, Dorn, though? They can't leave me hanging like this, especially with how they tease with Neera.

They don't "tease" Neera, he just mistakes a very similar character with her. As I've mentioned before, they can't put in characters who had multiple possible epilogues, since then they'd have to take your choices from previous games into account (I would be absolutely astounded if Larian did that). That leaves those characters from Baldur's Gate I who didn't either die and/or moved onto the sequel and/or wouldn't be dead due to natural causes + a handful of characters from Baldur's Gate II who had a single epilogue which left them alive and have long lifespans. And, of course, Minsc.

Why not? It has already been done before.
e.g., Viconia was definitely not romanced because she's still alive.

I thought this was common knowledge. Abdel Adrian (True neutral human fighter) is the canon Bhaalspawn, he romanced Jaheira and cheated on her with Bodhi (former elf vampire villain from BGII). Both women died, Abdel rejected godhood and remained mortal and lived out an extended life span as one of the leading citizens of Baldur's Gate until he got killed by his half brother (the last Bhaalspawn) at 139 years old. His death brought about the long delayed resurrection of Bhaal who resumed his original portfolio.

Abdel never existed, stop lying

 

[Morality Games]

When am I going to see my husbando, Dorn, though? They can't leave me hanging like this, especially with how they tease with Neera.

They don't "tease" Neera, he just mistakes a very similar character with her. As I've mentioned before, they can't put in characters who had multiple possible epilogues, since then they'd have to take your choices from previous games into account (I would be absolutely astounded if Larian did that). That leaves those characters from Baldur's Gate I who didn't either die and/or moved onto the sequel and/or wouldn't be dead due to natural causes + a handful of characters from Baldur's Gate II who had a single epilogue which left them alive and have long lifespans. And, of course, Minsc.

Why not? It has already been done before.
e.g., Viconia was definitely not romanced because she's still alive.

I thought this was common knowledge. Abdel Adrian (True neutral human fighter) is the canon Bhaalspawn, he romanced Jaheira and cheated on her with Bodhi (former elf vampire villain from BGII). Both women died, Abdel rejected godhood and remained mortal and lived out an extended life span as one of the leading citizens of Baldur's Gate until he got killed by his half brother (the last Bhaalspawn) at 139 years old. His death brought about the long delayed resurrection of Bhaal who resumed his original portfolio.

Abdel never existed, stop lying

Not sure if serious, murder of Abdel Adrian/freeing the essence of Bhaal is the actual canon explanation why Bhaal is a living deity again in the 5e.

Forgotten Realms continuity is nothing like Bioware continuity, Wizards never hesitates before bringing the canon hammer down (they also don't hesitate about retcons and soft reboots, of course).

 

[Lacrymas]

There's some doubt whether Abdel Adrian exists and which Abdel Adrian that is. Search for that name in thia thread and you'll find what people have been talking about concerning this.

 

[Morality Games]

There's some doubt whether Abdel Adrian exists and which Abdel Adrian that is. Search for that name in thia thread and you'll find what people have been talking about concerning this.

There is no doubt. Bhaal is definitely alive and part of the pantheon again (first time since the 2e Time of Troubles) in the 5e because:

Reemergence
For a time, it was believed that any possibility for Bhaal's resurrection had been stopped. The last known Bhaalspawn, Abdel Adrian, resisted the murderous impulses caused by his lineage and became a famed and beloved figure in the city of Baldur's Gate. In 1482 DR, near the beginning of the era known as the Second Sundering, [12]

With all of his children dead, all of Bhaal's essence was freed, allowing for his resurrection. Bhaal was revived, and reclaimed the murder domain from Cyric.[13]

Sources:

12. https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Murder_in_Baldur's_Gate

13. https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Sword_Coast_Adventurer's_Guide

 

[Lacrymas]

But CHARNAME is never named in Descent into Avernus afaik, which is the latest book to have come out. He is referred to but never as Abdel.

 

[Morality Games]

But CHARNAME is never named in Descent into Avernus afaik, which is the latest book to have come out. He is referred to but never as Abdel.

... and he wouldn't be Abdel Adrian (the person all other publications and materials assert him to be) because...?

 

[Lacrymas]

Because of BG3.

 

[Morality Games]

Because of BG3.

I don't see the connection.

 

[Heroic Liberator]

Because of BG3.

I don't see the connection.

Most returning players do not want to partake into the fantasy of that fan fiction tier character being canon.

 

[Morality Games]

Because of BG3.

I don't see the connection.

Most returning players do not want to partake into the fantasy of that fan fiction tier character being canon.

Most returning players don't know about the intricacies of canon and wouldn't understand or care if nerds tried to explain it to them, which is why Wizards liberally bring downs the canon hammer for the sake of tie-ins and expedience.

I'm willing to believe that Wizards (or certain employees) deal vaguely with the identity of the Bhaalspawn when there's no need to put a face to it, but Abdel Adrian is the identity they use in the publications that require more detail and there's little reason to anticipate they could or would ever start using a different one than the default avatar they've always used for that purpose.

 

[Lacrymas]

When was the last time Abdel was named in an official publication? Murder in Baldur's Gate is from 7 years ago and the Adventurer's Guide is from 4 years ago. My thinking is that WotC and/or Larian expect at least some people to go back to BG1 and 2 in preparation for BG3. But the forced canon party in BG2 was controversial even when BG2 came out, so forcing another canon when D&D has never been as popular won't be a good PR move. It's much safer to assume people will play BG1 and 2 rather than assume they know what's written in Murder in Baldur's Gate and the Adventurer's Guide.

 

[Morality Games]

When was the last time Abdel was named in an official publication? Murder in Baldur's Gate is from 7 years ago and the Adventurer's Guide is from 4 years ago. My thinking is that WotC and/or Larian expect at least some people to go back to BG1 and 2 in preparation for BG3. But the forced canon party in BG2 was controversial even when BG2 came out, so forcing another canon when D&D has never been as popular won't be a good PR move. It's much safer to assume people will play BG1 and 2 rather than assume they know what's written in Murder in Baldur's Gate and the Adventurer's Guide.

The forced canon party wasn't controversial (and also I think the idea was every NPC from Baldur's Gate served a companion to the Bhaalspawn at some point during the Iron shortage, believable given Baldur's Gate is a series of loosely interconnected vignettes). It was controversial to the few thousand players who actively and loudly voice opinions about the game for years (compared to the 1-2 million who bought it and phased out of cRPGs and video games the older they got it). According to pretty much

I promise you that Baldur's Gate 3 isn't going to produce a meaningful spike of interest in the old series. I know of 7 new D&D players broken in by the 5e who, while interested in Baldur's Gate 3 partly because of Larian's involvement, were surprised to learn there was a different Baldur's Gate aside from Dark Alliance (even though I told them about this several times in the past, long before Baldur's Gate 3 was announced). For them, all thought and perception about the first two games ended there.

Baldur's Gate 3 (at least the OC) also is mega unlikely to have many common plot threads with Baldur's Gate 1 or 2; think Neverwinter Nights OC and Neverwinter Nights 2 OC, completely different stories tied by setting and reoccurring motifs. While there's a chance Bhaal might feature in a different campaign, he's unlikely to be the focus in this one.

Neither Larian or Wizards have any problem whatsoever with establishing a canon (like Lucian is the Divine, for example --- clearly established without the slightest hesitation).

 

[rusty_shackleford]

The novels are obviously non-canon(they contradict far too much with any version of the game's events), the problem is the "Murder in Baldur's Gate" adventure.

I promise you that Baldur's Gate 3 isn't going to produce a meaningful spike of interest in the old series. I know of 7 new D&D players broken in by the 5e who, while interested in Baldur's Gate 3 partly because of Larian's involvement, were surprised to learn there was a different Baldur's Gate aside from Dark Alliance (even though I told them about this several times in the past, long before Baldur's Gate 3 was announced). For them, all thought and perception about the first two games ended there.

This site drastically overestimates both the amount of people who play pnp games and the overlap between pnp players and people who play CRPGs.

 

[Morality Games]

I'm just going to ask, "Assuming it isn't an amorphous gray blob, who else do you think the canon Bhaalspawn would be?"

The entire concept of Abdel Adrian (just like human fighter from Divinity Lucian being the canon Divine in the Divinity series) was invented because the True Neutral, "Good to his friends and terrible to his enemies" Dudebro Human Fighter is the most vanilla and inoffensive example of a hero the Bhaalspawn could possibly be. It's the overall most appealing concept that the largest number of consumers can easily identify with without getting triggered.

The archetype he personifies (ward to wizard, sword user, etc) draws upon the same mythic structure as King Arthur, Luke Skywalker, etc and best suits the type of story that Baldur's Gate was developed to be.

 

[Heroic Liberator]

I'm just going to ask, "Assuming it isn't an amorphous gray blob, who else do you think the canon Bhaalspawn would be?"

The entire concept of Abdel Adrian (just like human fighter from Divinity Lucian being the canon Divine in the Divinity series) was invented because the True Neutral, "Good to his friends and terrible to his enemies" Dudebro Human Fighter is the most vanilla and inoffensive example of a hero the Bhaalspawn could possibly be. It's the overall most appealing concept that the largest number of consumers can easily identify with without getting triggered.

I have no problem with that, yet once you get into his romances and what not it paints a different picture.

Those things will most likely not be relevant to BG3 though, so it really doesn't matter.

 

[Morality Games]

I think you guys are taking canon and role playing in the wrong spirit, and it's bad for the industry and your enjoyment of the hobby.

Whole purpose of different choices and outcomes (role playing) is for the sake of enjoying a convincing sake of self within imaginary environment you are interacting with.

Canon exists to bring structure back to a meta narrative that has branched too far due to these divergent outcomes. You accept the override and then move on to create a new sense of self with a different fictional, role playing identity that is at best a spiritual successor to the one you nurtured before (or totally unrelated if your role playing interests have changed). Benefit of doing this is you can continue exploring the nuances of the imaginary setting, its motifs, and its mysteries.

Part of being allowed to have real interactivity and role playing options is that you have to accept these outcomes will be streamlined out of existence when the canon is created.

Ergo, it would have been a nice role-playing option in DAII if Hawke had been allowed to join the Qunari (and have the additional benefit of ending the game early and sparing the the player from playing Act III) instead of being shoehorned into siding with the residents of Kirkwall, but Bioware didn't want to add a bit of role playing to their game on wheels because nerds would complain that DAIII didn't reflect the Qunari route.

 

[Lacrymas]

Nobody denies the practical application of forcing a canon, but since Descent into Avernus doesn't name Abdel, it isn't automatic to assume he's still canon, especially in the context of BG3. And even if there's only a small minority who are vocal about the forced canon party, it still matters because it's that small minority everyone is going to encounter when searching about this. Only a small minority ever care as much as we do anyway, but devs still cater to that because other people also search on the internet even if they don't have any opinions themselves, and it doesn't paint a pretty picture when every thread, every video and every article concerning the story is about how forcing a canon again is ...not ideal. This is why we still don't have any details about this game at all too, it won't be good PR when everyone on the internet is complaining it isn't isometric or an RPG at all. Since Larian have gone all in on this project, every scrap of bad publicity is to be avoided.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

I'm just going to ask, "Assuming it isn't an amorphous gray blob, who else do you think the canon Bhaalspawn would be?"

Why do we need to know this? Unless we were someone close enough to be traveling with CHARNAME(or a close relative of such), and still alive, we likely wouldn't know much at all about his early life or adventures.
The problem isn't Abdel existing, the problem is that he doesn't have to be CHARNAME. Abdel is going on 140 years old when he dies, various stories could have simply been attributed to him over time due to the shrinking number of Bhaalspawn and his notoriety.

Making Abdel definitely CHARNAME isn't just some small tweak to continuity, it completely sets in stone every single possible choice in BG1 and 2.