Baldur's Gate Baldur's Gate 3 Pre-Release Thread [EARLY ACCESS RELEASED, GO TO NEW THREAD]

[Elex]

also tales from candlekeep is turn based.

Maybe I am mistaken, but it isn't cRPG based on PnP system (it's a boardgame adaptation)?

I'm not sure.. i thought it was how 5e was?

no tales from candlekeep is a tabletop game not 5e.
https://dnd.wizards.com/products/digital-games/pcmac/tales-candlekeep


the only 5e playable game is Solasta Demo.


and it’s turn based because 5e is soo simple and fast that there is no point in doing real time.

 

[Atchodas]

All I have to do is add Lilura to this, and we would have another 255 pages of fire, fury and 2 fighting in a mud pit.

Hhhmmmm...

Fixed it for you

 

[Theldaran]

also tales from candlekeep is turn based.

Maybe I am mistaken, but it isn't cRPG based on PnP system (it's a boardgame adaptation)?

I'm not sure.. i thought it was how 5e was?

The early DnD games are fairly faithful to the PnP in many ways. However, 4e onwards is a PnP adaptation of a MMO action game, namely, World of Warcraft.

What does that even mean? One thing is the computer games, for which, adapting the whole ruleset is a bit... I dunno, in these times the autist masses couldn't cope.

Another thing is the PNP game. Yes, 4th Edition might as well be an imitation of WOW. Just another sign of the times.

Let me just say that I got Tomb of Annihilation for like 1 buck and still I'm not playing it. Completely meh-worthy game. I had more fun as a kid in 1991 with HeroQuest.

About BG3, it's funny how Larian will, allegedly, move from the formula that made them there (strict turn based) to RTWP just to make some quick bucks. "They say 'jump', you say 'how high'".

 

[Cael]

also tales from candlekeep is turn based.

Maybe I am mistaken, but it isn't cRPG based on PnP system (it's a boardgame adaptation)?

I'm not sure.. i thought it was how 5e was?

The early DnD games are fairly faithful to the PnP in many ways. However, 4e onwards is a PnP adaptation of a MMO action game, namely, World of Warcraft.

What does that even mean? One thing is the computer games, for which, adapting the whole ruleset is a bit... I dunno, in these times the autist masses couldn't cope.

Another thing is the PNP game. Yes, 4th Edition might as well be an imitation of WOW. Just another sign of the times.

Let me just say that I got Tomb of Annihilation for like 1 buck and still I'm not playing it. Completely meh-worthy game. I had more fun as a kid in 1991 with HeroQuest.

About BG3, it's funny how Larian will, allegedly, move from the formula that made them there (strict turn based) to RTWP just to make some quick bucks. "They say 'jump', you say 'how high'".

It means that in the old days, CRPG were adapted from PnP and therefore started at a higher level of gameplay.

Nowadays, it is the other way around where PnP is trying to emulate MMOs. It means pure decline.

 

[Steezus]

About BG3, it's funny how Larian will, allegedly, move from the formula that made them there (strict turn based) to RTWP just to make some quick bucks. "They say 'jump', you say 'how high'".

While both niche in the grand scheme of things, I wouldn't be too surprised if turn based was more popular among people in general than RTWP. And citing "quick bucks" as the reason for the move to RTWP has to be some of the dumbest shit I've heard at the tail end of 2019. Especially since Larian cultivated a following out of turn based combat.

 

[Lacrymas]

They contradict themselves about the combat system as well. As that German interview shows Swen saying, "it doesn't matter" what the combat system is going to be because someone will always be unhappy. Yet they don't reveal the combat system for more than half a year now. Which means it might matter quite a lot, contrary to Swen's objections.

Hell, we've been at it like a broken record for 256 pages already, and most of it is about how exactly they are going to piss in our soup with the combat.

 

[Steezus]

They contradict themselves about the combat system as well. As that German interview shows Swen saying, "it doesn't matter" what the combat system is going to be because someone will always be unhappy. Yet they don't reveal the combat system for more than half a year now. Which means it might matter quite a lot, contrary to Swen's objections.

Eh. Could be, could not be.

Maybe the game still looked like ass and they didn't want to show it then. Maybe they don't want to deal with all the nerd rage that would 100% occur if they just out right confirmed either without any gameplay to back it up. I haven't read the interview, but you paraphrasing Swen pretty much confirms the latter.

 

[Lacrymas]

They are obviously hiding it for some reason, regardless of what they've said in that interview. Either way, let me quote myself. And yes, we are talking about the same thing again, people who complain that we are talking about the same thing.

The thing with the combat system is that they can't win and they know it. If they go RTwP, their current fans will brew up a shitstorm for not being TB, if it's TB the older (not very bright) fans will brew up a shitstorm for it not being RTwP, and if they go with something like Twitcher or DA:I (which they will), every one of the old fans will brew up a shitstorm. That's why the best decision from their perspective is hiding it for just before release to get that sweet pre-order money and release-week sales before the entire internet is aflame.

 

[Harthwain]

They contradict themselves about the combat system as well. As that German interview shows Swen saying, "it doesn't matter" what the combat system is going to be because someone will always be unhappy. Yet they don't reveal the combat system for more than half a year now. Which means it might matter quite a lot, contrary to Swen's objections.

He's not really contradicting himself. It's true that no matter what you do, you won't please everybody. I am thinking he is trying to make people judge the game because of the game itself, and not because of preconceived notions about the system it uses. So until they can show the game in action the whole "no tell - show" policy will remain in effect.

 

[Steezus]

They are obviously hiding it for some reason, regardless of what they've said in that interview. Either way, let me quote myself. And yes, we are talking about the same thing again, people who complain that we are talking about the same thing.

The thing with the combat system is that they can't win and they know it. If they go RTwP, their current fans will brew up a shitstorm for not being TB, if it's TB the older (not very bright) fans will brew up a shitstorm for it not being RTwP, and if they go with something like Twitcher or DA:I (which they will), every one of the old fans will brew up a shitstorm. That's why the best decision from their perspective is hiding it for just before release to get that sweet pre-order money and release-week sales before the entire internet is aflame.

Yes. You are agreeing with me.

 

[Lacrymas]

Maybe contradict wasn't the best word, perhaps "weaseling out". And, yeah, ok, I get what he's trying to say if you put it that way, but the people who actually care enough to read interviews already know what each system brings and their strengths and weaknesses, so trying to placate the masses doesn't work when the masses aren't the ones you are addressing, lol. I don't know, there's something uncanny about this whole situation. Not in a malicious way, but as if fate is playing a joke on all participants. And the joke at the end would turn out to be at our expense.

 

[Steezus]

Maybe contradict wasn't the best word, perhaps "weaseling out". And, yeah, ok, I get what he's trying to say if you put it that way, but the people who actually care enough to read interviews already know what each system brings and their strengths and weaknesses, so trying to placate the masses doesn't work when the masses aren't the ones you are addressing, lol.

But it doesn't work like that.

You cannot not adress the masses. Once they confirm it, publications and youtubers are gonna run with it and people are going to create outrage. This thread is at 250 pages of arguing about something that hasn't been confirmed yet. Codex and everybody else would lose their goddamn minds once they would find out it's either A or B. Why would you want to invite that evil into your life as developer?

 

[Lacrymas]

He didn't address the masses by not confirming anything. And yes, that's the problem of this whole debacle, they can't win, and we'll be the ones who'll suffer the most when they inevitably lose.

 

[Daidre]

I think they decided to conserve important details to get more hype from them at later date, to maximize attention they could get from every dose in particular. No need to say more while first wave of hype is still high.

This way they lessen the risks of losing a audience's interest in case of prolonged development.

 

[Delterius]

My reaction when Sven says the combat system doesn't matter:

 

[vortex]

Next update from Larian won't be about gameplay but Baldur's Gate 4 teaser trailer.

 

[holla_cabezas_de_mierda]

seriously, I never understand this. its right there. Just fucking copy it and get on with making some good games. Someone has done the work already, 20 years of these idiots spazing out and trying all sorts of different designs like it has not already been solved. Do they not know about ToEE? Or do they think because it did not sell all that well it means the combat engine is bad? WTF, how can it be this long and nobody has just copied the fucking thing? Its unbelievable to me.

Why would someone even try to copy ToEE? No matter how good 3.5 implementation is and how close to original PnP it was everything else in the game sucked. Completely. Utterly. Especially with aforementioned system stuffed into ugliest radial menus I have ever seen.

Compare it to more and less contemporary combat focused Icewind Dale. Everything concerning the presentation - 2D art for location backgrounds, voice acting and music is not one, but two heads above. Enemy and dungeon design has 10 times variety instead of endless bugbears, bugbears, bugbears.... ToEE had barely anything to offer beside titular dungeon, and that one was far from spectacular (and had bugbears too!). Main plot is short, secondary quests were not memorable and cities - Hommlet is such a waste of space that I am pretty sure - most of people who picked up the game at release never left it. And only things I remember about second one that it was in the swamp and tiny.
Hell if I know why Troika choose this module for adaption.

At least version I had (no patches) was completable, but getting to the end boss was alike finding a narrow path in the mine field of bugs. Only reason I even tried - because dropping the game you hoarded your lunch money for was unthinkable back then.

only talking about the combat implementation itself. No reason a person could no put in Icewind dale type music and art and whatever else you said.

 

[gestalt11]

That moment when you are so delusional you'd accept drugs as a better argument than the entire recent history of video gaming, the workings of the market forces, Larian's secrecy and statements, and interpretation of evidence connected to all of these.

But what if drugs explain recent video game history?

 

[Lacrymas]

That moment when you are so delusional you'd accept drugs as a better argument than the entire recent history of video gaming, the workings of the market forces, Larian's secrecy and statements, and interpretation of evidence connected to all of these.

But what if drugs explain recent video game history?

They would've been more creative if that was the case. It also depends on which video game history we are talking about. We've gotten a pretty good selection of indie games recently, just the AA titles have been quite disappointing.

 

[Mebrilia the Viera Queen]

Well at least i don't think Larian will turn a tabletop game in a fps.

 

[gestalt11]

That moment when you are so delusional you'd accept drugs as a better argument than the entire recent history of video gaming, the workings of the market forces, Larian's secrecy and statements, and interpretation of evidence connected to all of these.

But what if drugs explain recent video game history?

They would've been more creative if that was the case. It also depends on which video game history we are talking about. We've gotten a pretty good selection of indie games recently, just the AA titles have been quite disappointing.

Probably true, although only for certain drugs. I suspect the anti-depressants a lot of people are on would make them less creative.

 

[CreamyBlood]

I am pleased to spice up this boring thread by contributing with a picture of my cat eating a rabbit.

 

[Lacrymas]

That poor bunny :/

 

[Trashos]

Here, Swen, lemme help you:

Dear BG fans,
We have decided that BG3 is going to be TB. That is not to say that we ourselves prefer TB to RTwP or that we do not repect RTwP and its fans. As a matter of fact, we are huge BG fans ourselves, and we love the combat system in those legendary titles. But the fact of the matter is that due to our experience we felt that we could do a better job with TB. And a series like BG deserves the best shot anyone can give it. For us, that best shot is with TB.
We are fully aware that some players are going to be disappointed with this decision. All we can do is ask them to try BG3, and decide for themselves whether it is a great game. We are doing our absolute best to make both a great RPG and a fun combat system. You will be the judge of the end result.

or

Dear BG fans,
We have decided that BG3 is going to be RTwP. When all is said and done, what decided this matter is the fact that BG1/2 are RTwP, and we felt that we should honor them by continuing in the same manner. We also felt that we could do a great job designing and implementing the RTwP system.
We are fully aware that some players are going to be disappointed with this decision. All we can do is ask them to try BG3, and decide for themselves whether it is a great game. We are doing our absolute best to make both a great RPG and a fun combat system. You will be the judge of the end result.

or

Dear BG fans,
We have decided that BG3 is going to feature both TB and RTwP, because we are scared shitless.

 

[Theldaran]

The decisions behind the BGs being RTWP have been discussed several times here. They could make it TB if they want, but then:

- it will be perceived as being in safe space because DOS
- if they make it RTWP it will be more in line with the past games, not alienating old players

Why not make it the next Skyrim and score a good slam dunk, I wonder??