Baldur's Gate Baldur's Gate 3 Pre-Release Thread [EARLY ACCESS RELEASED, GO TO NEW THREAD]

[Elex]

If they go both RTwP and TB, it is going to be out of cowardice. Enjoy a game where the most fundamental design decisions were made out of cowardice.

they go TB.

the real question, they use 5ft square movement or free movement?

 

[fantadomat]

If they wanted to go both RTwP and TB, they'd have already said that.

It depends if they think that they could pull it off or not.

 

[nikolokolus]

I find it hilarious that the new ToEE in DnD 3.5 did TB so very well and not a single game since had managed to emulate its combat system. It is like modern game devs really has no clue in the slightest on how to make games. Too much muh 375648282747438256347 genders and not enough coding.

For all of its technical achievements (doing a credible job of translating 3.x D&D to vidja) TOEE was a commercial flop. Modern game devs are in the money-making business; whatever they think will sell the most units is what their publisher is going to demand from them unless they're an indie. Yes Larian is an independent, but Hasbro is the one cutting the checks on this thing. Odds are they're going to be getting lots of production notes and heavy-handed input from the guys with the checkbook.

 

[Cael]

I find it hilarious that the new ToEE in DnD 3.5 did TB so very well and not a single game since had managed to emulate its combat system. It is like modern game devs really has no clue in the slightest on how to make games. Too much muh 375648282747438256347 genders and not enough coding.

For all of its technical achievements (doing a credible job of translating 3.x D&D to vidja) TOEE was a commercial flop. Modern game devs are in the money-making business; whatever they think will sell the most units is what their publisher is going to demand from them unless they're an indie. Yes Larian is an independent, but Hasbro is the one cutting the checks on this thing. Odds are they're going to be getting lots of production notes and heavy-handed input from the guys with the checkbook.

TOEE flopped because it was so awfully full of bugs as to be uncompletable. It took years of mods before it could even come close to complete.

 

[nikolokolus]

I find it hilarious that the new ToEE in DnD 3.5 did TB so very well and not a single game since had managed to emulate its combat system. It is like modern game devs really has no clue in the slightest on how to make games. Too much muh 375648282747438256347 genders and not enough coding.

For all of its technical achievements (doing a credible job of translating 3.x D&D to vidja) TOEE was a commercial flop. Modern game devs are in the money-making business; whatever they think will sell the most units is what their publisher is going to demand from them unless they're an indie. Yes Larian is an independent, but Hasbro is the one cutting the checks on this thing. Odds are they're going to be getting lots of production notes and heavy-handed input from the guys with the checkbook.

TOEE flopped because it was so awfully full of bugs as to be uncompletable. It took years of mods before it could even come close to complete.

I'm sure that kept some people away, but it was also contemporaneous with Morrowind (which was also bug-ridden) which sold like hotcakes. The thing is it doesn't really matter what the exact reason it flopped is, your average publisher is going to look at the history of game releases and see "Turn-based, isometric D&D game sold like shit" and decide that the risk isn't worth it, particularly when FPS-style, console friendly RPGs are crushing it on ROI. If it wasn't for Larian bucking trends and creating two really commercially successful RPGs in the Original Sin franchise, there's no way Hasbro would have greenlit this game. Whether or not Hasbro's executives want an OS clone with D&D mechanics remains to be seen, but I'm not exactly optimistic. I'm happy to have my gut instinct proved wrong.

 

[Delterius]

technical achievements

owlbears

 

[Dodo1610]

If they wanted to go both RTwP and TB, they'd have already said that.

He even said in the German interview that there is only one combat system. https://www.gamestar.de/artikel/bal...eplay-video-gamescom-kampfsystem,3345782.html

 

[nikolokolus]

If they wanted to go both RTwP and TB, they'd have already said that.

He even said in the German interview that there is only one combat system. https://www.gamestar.de/artikel/bal...eplay-video-gamescom-kampfsystem,3345782.html

Puzzle-platformer!

 

[luj1]

It will be RTwP just like every WotC CRPG made in the last 20 years. Or something worse like realtime with cooldowns. But that's not why it will be shit.

 

[Junmarko]

If they go both RTwP and TB, it is going to be out of cowardice.

Lol "cowardice"...

There's a clear preference these days, fewer CRPGs seem to adopt RtwP over turn-based. Used to be pretty balanced, when CRPGs were just rare in general. The ones that do take rtwp though, always seem to take most flack from players for whatever reason. Personally, I've always enjoyed both anyway, so just a bonus when POE2 offered both and done really well.

 

[holla_cabezas_de_mierda]

I find it hilarious that the new ToEE in DnD 3.5 did TB so very well and not a single game since had managed to emulate its combat system. It is like modern game devs really has no clue in the slightest on how to make games. Too much muh 375648282747438256347 genders and not enough coding.

seriously, I never understand this. its right there. Just fucking copy it and get on with making some good games. Someone has done the work already, 20 years of these idiots spazing out and trying all sorts of different designs like it has not already been solved. Do they not know about ToEE? Or do they think because it did not sell all that well it means the combat engine is bad? WTF, how can it be this long and nobody has just copied the fucking thing? Its unbelievable to me.

 

[Thonius]

It will be 3rd person action oriented game real-time with VATS system that makes it cinematic and rtwp. Best of the best!

 

[Lacrymas]

If they wanted to go both RTwP and TB, they'd have already said that.

He even said in the German interview that there is only one combat system. https://www.gamestar.de/artikel/bal...eplay-video-gamescom-kampfsystem,3345782.html

Weeeelll, he doesn't really say that, at least I don't see it. He says it's not up to a vote, what they'll show first won't be changed and will be how the game will eventually play. I find it funny that his excuse is "well SOMEONE will always complain no matter what, so we'll do whatever we want".

Wir werden das [in einem Video] vorstellen und sagen: So machen wir das. Wir werden es nicht ändern. Egal ob die Kämpfe nun rundenbasiert werden oder in Echtzeit mit Pause ablaufen oder wir aus Baldur's Gate 3 ein Rennspiel machen: Es wird immer jemanden geben, der nicht damit einverstanden ist, aus welchen Gründen auch immer. Deshalb ist es so wichtig, die Kämpfe zeigen zu können: So sehen sie aus, so spielen sie sich. Und dann machen wir das genau so.

Let me practice my German skills.

"We'll present [the combat system] in a video and say: We'll do it like that. We won't change it. It doesn't matter whether the combat will be (werden is "to become" in this context, but I don't think it makes much sense here) turn-based, real-time with pause, or we'll turn BG3 into a racing game: There always will be someone who won't agree for whatever reason. That's why it's important to be able to show the combat system: It will play just how it looks. And then we'll do it just like that"

I don't know if someone was directly translating from English or something, but that whole thing is not well-formatted or written, lol. They use the plural of fight (Kämpfe) for some reason and I'm not sure how to translate it to make sense other than "the combat system". Outside of that, spielen isn't a reflexive verb, so "so spielen sie sich" kinda sounds weird to me, but maybe that's how this thing is expressed in German.

 

[Grunker]

No, there are no actual gameplay details yet

 

[Barabus]

Been god damn 6 months it’s about time this swen fagget gives a little news

 

[Yosharian]

Just a fucking screenshot would be nice

 

[Harthwain]

Been god damn 6 months it’s about time this swen fagget gives a little news

That's the key.

On one hand they aren't promising anything to anyone, so their hands are free and clean. On another, they keep interest in the game (and hype) high, because everybody is curios how exactly the game will turn out to be. Nobody will get anything from him, save for vague remarks, until it's time. Do you think this thread would have 255 pages otherwise?

Personally? I am betting on turn-based. The last two games from Larian were both turn-based, so that's what they have the most experience in. Both were considered a success, despite being turn-based. On top of that the source material is (the PnP) is turn-based. I doubt they will suddenly switch gears.

The whole talk about making changes [to make the system fit the video game]? To me it sounds more like they are trying to make BG3 fit into a turn-based system. Why? Because we already have a proven template for real time with pause system (BG1 and BG2), so there isn't really need to experiment much there. On the other hand, what was the last DnD game to feature a turn-based system? Temple of Elemental Evil, which wasn't a commercial success and isn't really known outside of hardcore RPG players (and I really mean hardcore)?

If you think about D:OS and D:OS2 they really aren't that far from a DnD adaptation, generally speaking. They are both cRPGs. They both feature interactions (both between party members and the environment). They are both turn-based. They are both set in a high fantasy universe. I think that's a large part of why Larian was chosen for the job of making BG3. Of course, I could be mistaken, but since we are yet sailing the free waters of speculation I am merely offering my take on the whole thing.

 

[Daidre]

seriously, I never understand this. its right there. Just fucking copy it and get on with making some good games. Someone has done the work already, 20 years of these idiots spazing out and trying all sorts of different designs like it has not already been solved. Do they not know about ToEE? Or do they think because it did not sell all that well it means the combat engine is bad? WTF, how can it be this long and nobody has just copied the fucking thing? Its unbelievable to me.

Why would someone even try to copy ToEE? No matter how good 3.5 implementation is and how close to original PnP it was everything else in the game sucked. Completely. Utterly. Especially with aforementioned system stuffed into ugliest radial menus I have ever seen.

Compare it to more and less contemporary combat focused Icewind Dale. Everything concerning the presentation - 2D art for location backgrounds, voice acting and music is not one, but two heads above. Enemy and dungeon design has 10 times variety instead of endless bugbears, bugbears, bugbears.... ToEE had barely anything to offer beside titular dungeon, and that one was far from spectacular (and had bugbears too!). Main plot is short, secondary quests were not memorable and cities - Hommlet is such a waste of space that I am pretty sure - most of people who picked up the game at release never left it. And only things I remember about second one that it was in the swamp and tiny.
Hell if I know why Troika choose this module for adaption.

At least version I had (no patches) was completable, but getting to the end boss was alike finding a narrow path in the mine field of bugs. Only reason I even tried - because dropping the game you hoarded your lunch money for was unthinkable back then.

 

[Efe]

if proven template was enough you wouldnt have sword coast legends.
also tales from candlekeep is turn based.

 

[The_Mask]

seriously, I never understand this. its right there. Just fucking copy it and get on with making some good games. Someone has done the work already, 20 years of these idiots spazing out and trying all sorts of different designs like it has not already been solved. Do they not know about ToEE? Or do they think because it did not sell all that well it means the combat engine is bad? WTF, how can it be this long and nobody has just copied the fucking thing? Its unbelievable to me.

Why would someone even try to copy ToEE? No matter how good 3.5 implementation is and how close to original PnP it was everything else in the game sucked. Completely. Utterly. Especially with aforementioned system stuffed into ugliest radial menus I have ever seen.

Compare it to more and less contemporary combat focused Icewind Dale. Everything concerning the presentation - 2D art for location backgrounds, voice acting and music is not one, but two heads above. Enemy and dungeon design has 10 times variety instead of endless bugbears, bugbears, bugbears.... ToEE had barely anything to offer beside titular dungeon, and that one was far from spectacular (and had bugbears too!). Main plot is short, secondary quests were not memorable and cities - Hommlet is such a waste of space that I am pretty sure - most of people who picked up the game at release never left it. And only things I remember about second one that it was in the swamp and tiny.
Hell if I know why Troika choose this module for adaption.

At least version I had (no patches) was completable, but getting to the end boss was alike finding a narrow path in the mine field of bugs. Only reason I even tried - because dropping the game you hoarded your lunch money for was unthinkable back then.

All I have to do is add Lilura to this, and we would have another 255 pages of fire, fury and 2 girls fighting in a mud pit.

Hhhmmmm...

 

[Yosharian]

2 girls

Citation needed

 

[Harthwain]

if proven template was enough you wouldnt have sword coast legends.

If you don't plan on using a proven template, because it doesn't suit what you're aiming for, then it's proof of... not using a proven template. Which is pretty much what I am saying, since I am suspecting them going for turn-based.

Sure, in theory they could be making an action game, but - like I said before - they were doing turn-based games and it turned out okay for them so far. And if they really have "a blank check" from Wizards, then I fail to see why they'd suddenly be forced to make an action game. Something they don't have much experience in creating. People talk about mass appeal of action games and all that, but making an action game alone is not enough for a success (if it were, we wouldn't have mediocre action games that are commercial failures) and there are plenty of people interested in turn-based games to make this segment profitable. Unless the problem is the RPG part of it, but then it doesn't really matter if you are going for action or turn-based.

also tales from candlekeep is turn based.

Maybe I am mistaken, but it isn't cRPG based on PnP system (it's a boardgame adaptation)?

 

[Daidre]

seriously, I never understand this. its right there. Just fucking copy it and get on with making some good games. Someone has done the work already, 20 years of these idiots spazing out and trying all sorts of different designs like it has not already been solved. Do they not know about ToEE? Or do they think because it did not sell all that well it means the combat engine is bad? WTF, how can it be this long and nobody has just copied the fucking thing? Its unbelievable to me.

Why would someone even try to copy ToEE? No matter how good 3.5 implementation is and how close to original PnP it was everything else in the game sucked. Completely. Utterly. Especially with aforementioned system stuffed into ugliest radial menus I have ever seen.

Compare it to more and less contemporary combat focused Icewind Dale. Everything concerning the presentation - 2D art for location backgrounds, voice acting and music is not one, but two heads above. Enemy and dungeon design has 10 times variety instead of endless bugbears, bugbears, bugbears.... ToEE had barely anything to offer beside titular dungeon, and that one was far from spectacular (and had bugbears too!). Main plot is short, secondary quests were not memorable and cities - Hommlet is such a waste of space that I am pretty sure - most of people who picked up the game at release never left it. And only things I remember about second one that it was in the swamp and tiny.
Hell if I know why Troika choose this module for adaption.

At least version I had (no patches) was completable, but getting to the end boss was alike finding a narrow path in the mine field of bugs. Only reason I even tried - because dropping the game you hoarded your lunch money for was unthinkable back then.

All I have to do is add Lilura to this, and we would have another 255 pages of fire, fury and 2 girls fighting in a mud pit.

Hhhmmmm...

I am afraid ToEE is a wrong RPG to provoke such reaction. I neither remember nor dislike it well enough to argue.

Alas, I am ill equipped to badmouth Jagged Alliance since I never had a taste for tactics games.

 

[Efe]

also tales from candlekeep is turn based.

Maybe I am mistaken, but it isn't cRPG based on PnP system (it's a boardgame adaptation)?

I'm not sure.. i thought it was how 5e was?

 

[Cael]

also tales from candlekeep is turn based.

Maybe I am mistaken, but it isn't cRPG based on PnP system (it's a boardgame adaptation)?

I'm not sure.. i thought it was how 5e was?

The early DnD games are fairly faithful to the PnP in many ways. However, 4e onwards is a PnP adaptation of a MMO action game, namely, World of Warcraft.