Baldur's Gate Baldur's Gate 3 Pre-Release Thread [EARLY ACCESS RELEASED, GO TO NEW THREAD]

[Kaivokz]

Expectantly the opening cinematic was made by Unit Image, the same French studios that made the teaser trailer. Production took seven months apparently: https://www.artstation.com/artwork/dOde6Q

They should do all the art; the cinematic was the only thing that felt vaguely baldur’s gate-y.

 

[Black]

The more I think about it the more I become convinced that unless they change the initiative system the game will be an irredeemable pile of shit, unless you play without companions that is.

What's wrong with the initiative system?

 

[AwesomeButton]

but there's already at least 5 person parties in screenshots

Swen confirmed 4 person party on twitter: https://twitter.com/LarAtLarian/status/1233431915274870784?s=20

Huh, those must be temporary companions or something then.

Swen used the word follower, so maybe we'll get hirings.

Apparently Swen has invented a version of Sawyer's sidekicks which won't confuse and irritate players.

These two are like Gilbert Bates and John Applebuy.

 

[Harthwain]

I’m not convinced the TB, 4-man party cap or the lack of alignment system, are anything more than Larian’s efforts to streamline and simplify the controls, interface, and user experience for the next gen console port.

It’s easier to manage 4 guys from your couch with your gamepad. No one wants to be confused by alignment penalties. It seems to me it’s about console accessibility, not CRPG incline.

1) You can manage 11 players just fine while playing Blood Bowl 2 with a gamepad. On a timer (2 or 3 minutes per turn).

If you want to blame something, then blame the lack of individual initative as it removes "who acts next?" consideration from the combat. And the game being turn-based.

As for why they went with turn-based:

The choices that we made are ours. Why did we go for turn-based instead of real-time with pause? Because D&D to us is a turn-based game and we’re really good – or we have become really good – with turn-based combat. So that, I think, is one of our strengths, and trying out real-time with pause for now, just because the originals were that? It’s a big risk. Because the team would have to think completely differently, our combat would be completely different. And we didn’t really feel good about that. Normally we do try out a lot. Normally we try out a lot before we make a decision, but with real-time with pause and turn-based we didn’t, we just said “Okay it’s just gonna be turn-based.” – David Walgrave, Executive Producer Larian Studios

2) Back when I played BG and IWD alignment wasn't a big deal.

The biggest impact was not being able to use certain weapons and you had to manage your reputation to not go above or below a certain treshold, otherwise do-gooders and ne'er-do-wells would be get upset if you went with a mixed party composition and leave eventually (in BG2). Also, there were some interactions in IWD, where your alignment gave you some extra dialogue options, but nothing too crazy.

And in Planescape: Torment aligments were a clown fiesta, because it was so easy to become Chaotic.

Am I forgetting anything?

 

[holla_cabezas_de_mierda]

Have you all played BG and IWD knowing the D&D rules? Be honest.

yes, they were 2nd nature to me.

 

[Tacgnol]

And in Planescape: Torment aligments were a clown fiesta, because it was so FUN to become Chaotic.

Fixed.

 

[rhollis]

Can anyone explain to me (a) how a modder has the manpower to add TB to Pathfinder: Kingmaker, (b) how Owlcat has the manpower to add TB as an on-the-fly toggle for WotR, and (c) how Obsidian has the manpower to add a fully-fledged TB mode to Deadfire, but Larian can’t leverage its 350-person team to balance a RTwP version?

Nice point. Amazing questoin. IMO ideally they should give options ie - rtwp or tb?

All of the examples cited above have glaring problems regarding their TB implementation. It turns out that when you change the fundamental way combat works, you find yourself redesigning every single encounter, provided you want to make a good game... Crazy huh? .
Giving the option for RTwP would result in PS:T tier combat, or would encroach on the development time/resources it takes to design good TB mechanics and encounters.

Deadfire’s TB mode has great reviews with many preferring it to RTwP and WotR’s TB mode obviously hasn’t been released. I tried Deadfire’s TB and was pleasantly surprised. I didn't try the Kingmaker mod, but that has good reviews on Nexus.

Pathfinder Kingmaker (and I like the game) has the same design issue as IE games, though: lots of boring trash mobs to fight through. The most interesting fights in BG are those against varied groups propped with scs-ai. And these would have been better in turn based, because to control high level spellcasters with vancian magic you pause left and right anyway.

Rwtp isn't 'balanced' for real time combat, it's 'balanced' for lazy game design, where the maps are filled with repetitive enemy groups best resolved in real time, but once you get to an actually interesting battle, you have to pause. Because neither the game mechanics, not the user interface are adjusted to real time controls of multiple units with different abilities.

Compare it to how 'full party control' works in real time strategies.

I have no problem with TB games per se, just Larian’s implementation. I agree RTwP often leads to repetitive trash mobs, and that it’s particularly a flaw in Kingmaker.

On the flip side, I find that Larian crafts their environment maps around these gimmicky encounters, and areas end up feeling like compact theme parks, which really detracts from the sense of exploration.

Also, who doesn’t enjoy cleaving a pack of exploding gibberlings every once in awhile? Trash mobs, while primarily a nuisance, do serve some purpose by relaying the power fantasy as you level up. Hard to achieve this effect when every encounter is tuned to provide some sort of tactical challenge, which is typically the case in TB games because otherwise the player feels like you’re wasting their time.

An issue with the D:OS games, for me, is that when you come upon that little group of skeletons, you already know they are going to be a pain in the ass for one reason or another because you see the arena and the surfaces and the barrels, and you know you’ll have to wait for them to individually make ill-advised move after move with excruciatingly slow animations. By the time you’ve won the encounter, you’ve watched them shuffle back and forth for ten minutes, and you’ve blown up a barrel or two.

That said, I think BG3 should be TB, but I think a RTwP mode would be a welcome addition and one which they have the resources to provide. Most of all, I hope Larian breaks from its prior encounter-centric map design sensibilities in order to preserve that BG feeling of exploration.

Regardless, the TB / RTwP issue pales in comparison to the four-person party cap and dialogue.

 

[Terenty]

Are the retarded, over the top, cartoonish animations for jumping, pushing, punching etc is a requirement for 5E too?

 

[fantadomat]

Are the retarded, over the top, cartoonish animations for jumping, pushing, punching etc is a requirement for 5E too?

they do look really retarded,it took me some time to get it that they are generic actions and not some flashy superpower lol. The jumping especially is really unrealistic and off-putting.

 

[GhostCow]

Here's a question I haven't seen brought up. Why are they using that ugly ass githyanki female as the face of their game? Is it to attract the SJW crowd and their love of ugly, angry, stronk wahmen?

 

[fantadomat]

Here's a question I haven't seen brought up. Why are they using that ugly ass githyanki female as the face of their game? Is it to attract the SJW crowd and their love of ugly, angry, stronk wahmen?

Maybe swen's fetish?

 

[Kirkpatrick]

How often is it "properly made"? Practically never.

Numerous people complained about the slow animations of D:OS and D:OS 2. You can see the slow animations in BG3. Swen's seen the complaints; he's dismissed them. It's going to be slow.

Difference in speed from 1 to 2 is big though. He might have listened a bit.

 

[holla_cabezas_de_mierda]

I'm betting a lot of grognards in the 1980s/early 90s learned basic DnD from the Goldbox games.

I don't think so. Most grognards frown upon cRPGs. Especially back then. This was mainly due to their limitations. Look how small the cRPG section is on present-day ENWorld. Now, go back 30 years. cRPG was a dirty "word" to grognards.

Also, there are no grognards on the 'Dex. Not in the tabletop/wargaming sense of the word. (Well, I know of one but he doesn't post much.)

yeah I played the goldbox games, but already knew the rules from playing AD&D from 1981. I started playing AD&D when my mom got into medical school and we moved into the student family dorms... I was like 10 and this one student had a 17 year old son who was a AD&D fanatic. He rounded up all the kids old enough to learn (and some not really old enough maybe) and taught us how to play dungeons and dragons. I could not believe a game like it existed, it was truly incredible to me. The weird shaped dice, it all seemed like he was casting a magic spell on us, I was totally hooked.

He also was a big wargamer, and taught me how to play crazy wargames like Advanced Third Reich when I was like 11 and 12.
My mom was scared I was turning into a Nazi because I had this giant box that said "THIRD REICH" on it in my room.

Also I do play some of those wargames you are talking about, like The gamers operational combat series like DAK II, Guederians Blitzkrieg, or the game World in Flames etc... its just impossible to find the time to play them as an adult almost.

 

[Harthwain]

Here's a question I haven't seen brought up. Why are they using that ugly ass githyanki female as the face of their game? Is it to attract the SJW crowd and their love of ugly, angry, stronk wahmen?

Because she represents Illithids' sworn enemies (who are used as a symbol for BG3) and is one of the new playable races?

 

[Parabalus]

Will this be TB only or will it have RTwP as well?

 

[TheImplodingVoice]

Here's a question I haven't seen brought up. Why are they using that ugly ass githyanki female as the face of their game? Is it to attract the SJW crowd and their love of ugly, angry, stronk wahmen?

Because in current year you need to have a female (preferably ugly) as the face of your product. And you also have to cater to the demographic that doesn't play videos games and has no plan or intention to buy your video game.

 

[rhollis]

You can manage 11 players just fine while playing Blood Bowl 2 with a gamepad. On a timer (2 or 3 minutes per turn).

I meant 4 players in terms of screen space and couch coop, a big selling point of D:OS on console. Easier to manage inventory between 4 guys. Doubt that’s a problem in blood bowl but can’t say I’ve tried it.

As for why they went with turn-based:

I read that quote and I think it’s true that they are doing the “safe” thing, but not only because of their experience making subpar TB encounters, but because they have already built a successful gamepad control scheme that was better received on consoles’ than PoE’s gamepad translation. I also think that PnP rules != good CRPG gameplay all the time. For example, as others have mentioned you lose the ability to so reaction rolls with TB. I think referring to PnP is good pretext but just another “ain’t broke don’t fix it” Lazy Larian move.

2) Back when I played BG and IWD alignment wasn't a big deal.

It wasn’t a big deal unless you were a divine class and rping against your chosen alignment. It’s just another thing they cut because why bother changing anything from D:OS? Sure it’s not important in the scope of things but it can’t be surprising to anyone that such reactivity was cut when they can’t be bothered to write words for the fucking PC. Every design choice is just lazily shoehorning 5E into D:OS. It’s also simpler this way and won’t confuse dip shits on their couches who just desperately want to get back to lighting pools of grease on fire.

 

[ERYFKRAD]

Will this be TB only or will it have RTwP as well?

It's gonna be realtime with VR support.

 

[rhollis]

Are the retarded, over the top, cartoonish animations for jumping, pushing, punching etc is a requirement for 5E too?

they do look really retarded,it took me some time to get it that they are generic actions and not some flashy superpower lol. The jumping especially is really unrealistic and off-putting.

You know what else is retarded? Being able to throw your boots the same turn you fired your arrow. As if removing your boots and throwing them at the enemy is a quick action.

*I had no time to pull a second arrow from my quiver and fire it from my bow, which, by pure happenstance, was engulfed in flames. So, I sat down to remove my boots, first untying the laces...*

 

[ArchAngel]

Tnx to our own Pink Eye and his anon friends pkm community is ready for this long war.

 

[holla_cabezas_de_mierda]

Yeah, I pieced that together afterwards but (and I'm not being annoying here), most cleric spells as I recall were not that long range. That seems like a long ass ranged spell for a low level cleric. But maybe this is just me being an old fuddy duddy.

Yes, it has the same range of a magic missile and it does 4d6 damage (but requires a range attack roll). Low level spells are a bit supercharged in 5E.

might as well be a finger of death spell at 1st to 3ed level with 4d6... Unless they make you start with more 'EPIC HP's!' too...I think finger of death was also an aimed attack...this is like first level finger of death spell honestly.

 

[fantadomat]

Are the retarded, over the top, cartoonish animations for jumping, pushing, punching etc is a requirement for 5E too?

they do look really retarded,it took me some time to get it that they are generic actions and not some flashy superpower lol. The jumping especially is really unrealistic and off-putting.

You know what else is retarded? Being able to throw your boots the same turn you fired your arrow. As if removing your boots and throwing them at the enemy is a quick action.

*I had no time to pull a second arrow from my quiver and fire it from my bow, which, by pure happenstance, was engulfed in flames. So, I sat down to remove my boots, first untying the laces...*

Yeah that demo was really filled with dumb cringe. The whole fight was more of joke than anything else.

 

[holla_cabezas_de_mierda]

lighting the GOD DAMN BOW on FIRE when firing a flaming ARROW is RETARDED

this is the most retarded complaint in the whole thread. like really. Codex loves to throw abstraction blah blah blah dice rolls blah blah blah saves blah blah blah and then complain about simple "lightning bow" in the fire as an abstraction of using the fire on your arrows.

Lighting the entire bow on fire is retarded, they could just as easily limited it to the arrow or the tip of the arrow.

I think the entire character should be outlined in roaring flame and then when he fires his bow he lets out a huge BELLOW! and explosions and lava erupt from his body and shoot from his bow and the entire screen is bathed in fire for 1D4 extra damage.

 

[Harthwain]

You can manage 11 players just fine while playing Blood Bowl 2 with a gamepad. On a timer (2 or 3 minutes per turn).

I meant 4 players in terms of screen space and couch coop, a big selling point of D:OS on console. Easier to manage inventory between 4 guys. Doubt that’s a problem in blood bowl but can’t say I’ve tried it.

From what I have seen the inventory management shouldn't be a problem when it's magically shared by all team members, accessible mid-combat and regardless of your teammates' status.

And if you can manage 4 team members in a split-screen co-op, then you can manage 6. It's just one person more to divide between both players. So I fail to see consoles specifically being the problem here or the sole reason for us having a party of 4. Evenmoreso considering that in both DO:S 1 and DO:S 2 party size was limited to 4, and that's before there were console versions for them (which came in later, for both games. DO:S series started as PC-oriented).

So, yeah, I don't really get the whole talk about the apparent consolization.

 

[holla_cabezas_de_mierda]

Tnx to our own Pink Eye and his anon friends pkm community is ready for this long war.

throwing the boots thing is just so fucking stupid. imagine hitting an orc with a pair of shoes. Shoes do no damage to anything. WTF. George Bush, a 70 year old man dodged a pair of shoes up at a podium. Even if he had been hit, so the fuck what?