Baldur's Gate Baldur's Gate 3 Pre-Release Thread [EARLY ACCESS RELEASED, GO TO NEW THREAD]

[Tyranicon]

but there's already at least 5 person parties in screenshots

Swen confirmed 4 person party on twitter: https://twitter.com/LarAtLarian/status/1233431915274870784?s=20

Huh, those must be temporary companions or something then.

Either they will become your enemy after you don't manage to save X number or you will be able to change your party composition like in other games. Tho i am waging on them becoming a bunch of mindflayers after you get to save three of them. The same shit was in dos2,you choose your party after you get the option to play with all of them and the rest dies.

Can I save none of them and create my own party? What little I remember of the origins characters in DOS2 indicate this will be the better choice.

 

[fantadomat]

but there's already at least 5 person parties in screenshots

Swen confirmed 4 person party on twitter: https://twitter.com/LarAtLarian/status/1233431915274870784?s=20

Huh, those must be temporary companions or something then.

Either they will become your enemy after you don't manage to save X number or you will be able to change your party composition like in other games. Tho i am waging on them becoming a bunch of mindflayers after you get to save three of them. The same shit was in dos2,you choose your party after you get the option to play with all of them and the rest dies.

Can I save none of them and create my own party? What little I remember of the origins characters in DOS2 indicate this will be the better choice.

I don't remember being able to make a party. You were stuck to either solo or group of degenerates. The dos companions were really bad.....thanks for reminding me of that....experience.

 

[The_Mask]

Irenicus did, though.

But he kicked Khalid out of the party At least he was kind enough to replace him with this trustworthy Yoshimo guy.

Yoshimo would literally give his heart to you. Would Khalid?

 

[Dodo1610]

Here is the official quote on party size for DND5E from the Dungeon Master guide p82:

PARTY SIZE The preceding guidelines assume that you have a party consisting of three to five adventurers. If the party contains fewer than three characters, apply the next highest multiplier on the Encounter Multipliers table. For example, apply a multiplier of 1.5 when the characters fight a single monster and a multiplier of 5 for groups of fifteen or more monsters. If the party contains six or more characters, use the next lowest multiplier on the table. Use a multiplier of 0.5 for a single monster.

So there is really no good reason for them no use a party of 5 or even go a step further and use some simple math to create the encounters.

I just hope that the other origin characters won't just leave you after the first chapter.

 

[Sordid MCA/Prosper Hybryd]

I wish internet would stop fighting over Turn based vs RTWP. Can't people like different things? That's not the issue here.

All rtwp fans must be killed, their sisters and wifes - raped, and their children - burnt. So sayeth the wise Alaundo!

 

[Valky]

Criticisms with the ruleset implementation now
-Where the fuck are my alignments?
-4 PC party Swen, I blame your multiplayer
-MRAAAAAAGHH the fucking party based initiative instead of single player initiative AHHHHH
-Cinematic dialogues is S L O W as fuck and extremely homoerotic, an absolute bastardization of npc interaction

Some smaller nitpicks
-Every action looked EPIC and FLASHY, Swen is trying too hard and some things should just look mundane
-A different visual style than D:OS2 would be nice
-UI is tripe

Swen at least got my gaze back after I vowed to never look in his direction after D:OS Decline Edition. Ruleset implementation and quest design without quest markers are the biggest points of concern for me now.

edit:
On the ruleset, also possible concern that there will not be a large variety, but from the 10+ races and 8 + more to be revealed classes I think this is being mitigated. And if I'm not mistaken did I see non randomly generated items? If so then Swen's awful itemization might also be fixed!

 

[Lady_Error]

It's just anime.

That's the 10,000th message in this thread, by the way.

Let that sink in.

 

[IHaveHugeNick]

I wish internet would stop fighting over Turn based vs RTWP. Can't people like different things?

Some people like having HIV, doesn't mean the world should stop trying to eradicate HIV from the planet.

 

[Lyric Suite]

I wish internet would stop fighting over Turn based vs RTWP. Can't people like different things? That's not the issue here.

I wish it would stop fighting over that since it is the LEAST problematic aspect of this non-sequel.

 

[Thunar]

Can anyone explain to me (a) how a modder has the manpower to add TB to Pathfinder: Kingmaker, (b) how Owlcat has the manpower to add TB as an on-the-fly toggle for WotR, and (c) how Obsidian has the manpower to add a fully-fledged TB mode to Deadfire, but Larian can’t leverage its 350-person team to balance a RTwP version?

Nice point. Amazing questoin. IMO ideally they should give options ie - rtwp or tb?

All of the examples cited above have glaring problems regarding their TB implementation. It turns out that when you change the fundamental way combat works, you find yourself redesigning every single encounter, provided you want to make a good game... Crazy huh? .
Giving the option for RTwP would result in PS:T tier combat, or would encroach on the development time/resources it takes to design good TB mechanics and encounters.

It would also result in a lot of fundamental problems. From what we've seen, Larian is (mostly) going towards a 1 to 1 DND 5e ruleset a la Temple of Elemental Evil.
You can not simply convert that amount of option and information in RTwP without serious thought. It's the reason why BG had to have to have its 2e rules significantly reworked, it's just too much work to have it all be intact once you make that significant leap.

DND, 5e especially, is HIGHLY dependent on its grid, and it's becoming harder and harder to run combats without it like we used to do with older editions.
I wanted to write a paragraph citing a few examples, but it got too long and boring, so I'll just say this:

The things that you want are mutually exclusive, DND's combat takes a lot of its appeal from War Games.
War Games are highly dependent on positioning, and as DND editions went on, the various people in charge of it wanted to lean more and more into the "strategic appeal" of the game, resulting in 3.5e at first and then 4e, where they took design cues from games like MtG and went haywire with the balancing and the streamlining of rules, adding a bunch of things that made no sense in the process and cutting out all of the fun of 3.5e.
5e went the opposite route: instead of making everyone the same balanced guy, everyone became a god past lvl ~8-10.
Hence, players love 5e, while DMs really wish they were playing something that'd give a little more of a challenge, but that's besides the point.
Basically, from 3.5e the strategic appeal of DND got put to the forefront, and more and more of the strategic parts of the game got tied with positioning, because it's much easier to absorb a lot of of information by looking at a grid than by remembering rules that only apply in xyz abstract situation, one of the problems of earlier editions, which lead to a lot of rules being forgotten.

Now, a lot of this might not seem important, you could make the case that it's possible to translate positioning advantages by altering the speed at which characters move and act, but that's not the point.
The point is that those advantages must be made clear to the player, because otherwise, he might not be able to use certain deliberate abilities that directly tie to his positioning.
Furthermore, those things should also be made clear so that the reasons for his losses are justified and scenarios like being in a spot where there are multiple AOO and disadvantage on the die roll, while a few creatures, including the PC took the Ready action, while some are maintaining concentration, can happen without them being unfair, or fill the combat log at the speed of light.

The cool thing about 5e's combat is that there's a lot of neat ways to synergize various mechanics of the game to your advantage, and communicating that in a way that people understand that where they position themselves and how they act can set them up for a decisive victory 3 turns down the road is very difficult to do in anything that's not turn based.
The more interwoven and complex you want a game to be, the slower it's going to play. Making it RTwP would require a lot of effort and adaptation and would probably look nothing like the OG BG, or typical RTwP games.
DND 2e didn't have these issues to the same degree, so the devs could basically fudge around the rules and forget about certain aspects of the game altogether, but doing that in 5e would undermine the whole appeal of the system and would result in it being no more interesting than pokemon (I'm only barely exaggerating, you go and try to have engaging combat in 5e without taking positioning into account).

 

[prodigydancer]

-Where the fuck are my alignments?

Actually, WotC told Larian not to bother with alignments because in 5e they no longer mean anything. But of course, do go on and blame Swen for everything.

 

[Valky]

-Where the fuck are my alignments?

Actually, WotC told Larian not to bother with alignments because in 5e they no longer mean anything. But of course, do go on and blame Swen for everything.

I didn't know this was woke of the coast's fault. I absolve Swen of guilt.

 

[Ent]

I'm getting an urge to play ToEE again.

 

[Sacibengala]

-Where the fuck are my alignments?

Actually, WotC told Larian not to bother with alignments because in 5e they no longer mean anything. But of course, do go on and blame Swen for everything.

I didn't know this was woke of the coast's fault. I absolve Swen of guilt.

Yeah, today in dnd alignment is bullshit. Only thing that matters in game are real world politics, because THAT is what we need in fantasy games. Calls that suspension of disbilief.

 

[RNGsus]

What's next, half-orc paladins?

 

[prodigydancer]

It's just anime.

That's the 10,000th message in this thread, by the way.

Let that sink in.

Sorry, couldn't resist. This 400+ pages thread sooo reminds me of 2009.

 

[Sacibengala]

What's next, half-orc paladins?

There are even art for that on the 5E players handbook.

 

[Generic-Giant-Spider]

I finally watched the gameplay reveal.

My biggest problem is that this really doesn't feel like a Baldur's Gate game BUT I was ready to hate this son of a bitch no matter what because I had low expectations with Larian to begin with especially with D:OS2. When I was watching this, things that 3 years ago would have got me so heated I'd be committing hate crime I just PARRIED that shit away like a fucking master duelist. I'm so proud of myself. Anyways, yeah, the game looks like D:OS3 and exhibits no character or atmosphere that would make you think Baldur's Gate or D&D. I was hoping this would give Larian an excuse to break away and try a new look, a new approach, do something different but this looks too much like the Original Sin games and it just puts me off. Why does everything always look so nice and clean? Things don't look lived in or timeworn. Maybe I'm the only one that thinks that but it doesn't come off as natural and everything has this synthetic shine to it.

The whole in game cutscene/dialogue choice thing is lame too, it's probably an early stages thing that will be fixed but the lip syncing looks like a ventriloquist's dummy or something. Because I have a regularly updated gaydar.exe I knew right away the vampire elf was a rabid homosexual and was waiting when this would be revealed. So that's one Caucasian character in the origins section lost to faggotry, can't wait to see how inclusive the other ones will be. Why is making a vampire cool so difficult for most people? They're vampires, they're nocturnal, they suck blood and live in crypts. Anyways all the origin characters they did sneak previews of looked like shit and will undoubtedly be horrible companions.

Well, it may carry the title of Baldur's Gate III but so far it's underwhelming and disappointing. So much of this could have been an Original Sin game or even a conversion mod for D:OS2. Remember now, this is a franchise recognition thing here with it being titled BG3 and after 20 years THIS is what you got? There's no sense of adventure or wonder, it's like they referred to nothing when it came to capturing any sort of magic set by BG1/BG2. Even Swen sounded bored going through this or just wanted to get it done. Where's the pride and passion? This is motherfucking BALDUR'S GATE 3, baby, this isn't some shitty little Kickstarter project for an idea you had a couple years ago while taking out the trash. I want to see the main menu and be assaulted by some memorable music that makes you want to fuck shit up, I want character generation to take me 2 hours and be cluster of menus in menus and a bunch of stupid geeky shit that intimidates lesser minded mortals into refunding. I want the world to be fantasy but also be dangerous and untamed, I need to know one of the 600 bobbleheads working at Larian spent 8 hours every day outside in July 2019 to record the sounds of birds and woodland creatures to add to the ambiance. I wanna be told by a non-British and non-homosexual narrator I was waylaid and must defend myself. If I don't hear a cloaked medieval reimagining of at least ten sci-fi movie tracks from the '80s, then why even accept this project at all?

I want BALDUR'S GATE III, baby, not this lame shit where Larian hopes you're impressed because you figured out that casting a freeze AOE spell while it rains produces FREEZING RAIN and laud yourself like you're a master strategist.

And listen up fuckos, I'm allowed to be unfair and driven by nostalgia because this is the risk you take when you shamble out a beloved franchise from decades ago that is still praised to the day. In fact, I will be so unfair and unforgiving I will never be satisfied because that's the mountain you've decided to climb. Good luck, SWEN, hope you can at least make giant spiders that don't look like they are gay parade floats. Pussy.

 

[mondblut]

Can anyone explain to me (a) how a modder has the manpower to add TB to Pathfinder: Kingmaker, (b) how Owlcat has the manpower to add TB as an on-the-fly toggle for WotR, and (c) how Obsidian has the manpower to add a fully-fledged TB mode to Deadfire, but Larian can’t leverage its 350-person team to balance a RTwP version?

Last time I checked, all hybrid combat systems sucked nigger balls.

Also, taking RT gameplay and cutting it into round-sized chunks with what is essentially a mandatory autopause is infinitely easier than taking TB gameplay and making it work in simultaneous realtime.

In all honesty, I do believe that a true BG sequel should have remained RTWP. But after watching my genre being taken apart by ADHD kiddies for 25 years, seeing them cry salty tears of impotent raeg over losing their precious RT to monocled TB is... delightful.

 

[rhollis]

Can anyone explain to me (a) how a modder has the manpower to add TB to Pathfinder: Kingmaker, (b) how Owlcat has the manpower to add TB as an on-the-fly toggle for WotR, and (c) how Obsidian has the manpower to add a fully-fledged TB mode to Deadfire, but Larian can’t leverage its 350-person team to balance a RTwP version?

Nice point. Amazing questoin. IMO ideally they should give options ie - rtwp or tb?

All of the examples cited above have glaring problems regarding their TB implementation. It turns out that when you change the fundamental way combat works, you find yourself redesigning every single encounter, provided you want to make a good game... Crazy huh? .
Giving the option for RTwP would result in PS:T tier combat, or would encroach on the development time/resources it takes to design good TB mechanics and encounters.

Deadfire’s TB mode has great reviews with many preferring it to RTwP and WotR’s TB mode obviously hasn’t been released. I tried Deadfire’s TB and was pleasantly surprised. I didn't try the Kingmaker mod, but that has good reviews on Nexus.

Not sure how those equate to PS:T tier combat. I’m not sure why it would be so hard to translate TB to RTwP, given that TB rounds are already abstracted into 6 second intervals or why that would lead to the loss of positioning advantage or other such systems. Actions already have “speeds” and those can be translated into seconds. Even if encounters are primarily balanced for TB, including the option for RTwP doesn’t strike me as something a 350-person team couldn’t handle.

Further, regardless of whether TB is how PnP works, it doesn’t mean the game needs to lose much in the conversion to RTwP. I’ve never tried tabletop Pathfinder, but my understanding is Kingmaker was fairly faithful to that experience with its RTwP implementation.

I’m not convinced the TB, 4-man party cap or the lack of alignment system, are anything more than Larian’s efforts to streamline and simplify the controls, interface, and user experience for the next gen console port.

It’s easier to manage 4 guys from your couch with your gamepad. No one wants to be confused by alignment penalties. It seems to me it’s about console accessibility, not CRPG incline.

 

[Grotesque]

This is Larian's Baldur's Gate in form and spirit

Spoiler

 

[Generic-Giant-Spider]

This game is gonna SUCK. I'm buying it because I'm weak willed, but I'll tell you this: I'm going into it knowing it'll suck. I am giving it zero chance. It's like holding a job interview for a bum. He'll never work for my company, he'll never be shit in my world, but I'll humor him for a few hours and mock him. Fuck you Baldur's Gate III. I'm gonna tear this piece of shit apart so hard that if you fanboy this game you better hope I get murdered or taken out by an icy road and sharp turn. This game is gonna GET IT. Fuck, I'm so pumped for it. YEAH.

 

[Orma]

 

[rhollis]

Because I have a regularly updated gaydar.exe I knew right away the vampire elf was a rabid homosexual and was waiting when this would be revealed. So that's one Caucasian character in the origins section lost to faggotry, can't wait to see how inclusive the other ones will be

All-inclusive pansexual resort. Believe Larian already confirmed all characters romanceable by PC. No mention of gender constraints.

Edit: And Swen called gender selection “body type” during stream.

 

[rhollis]

Because I have a regularly updated gaydar.exe I knew right away the vampire elf was a rabid homosexual and was waiting when this would be revealed. So that's one Caucasian character in the origins section lost to faggotry, can't wait to see how inclusive the other ones will be

All-inclusive pansexual resort. Believe Larian already confirmed all characters romanceable by PC. No mention of gender constraints.

Edit: And Swen called gender selection “body type” during stream.

And they let slip that when you sick fucks inevitably bang the Michael Jackson Githyanki, she will cheat on you at camp a little later on cuz Githyanki don’t do monogamy.