Baldur's Gate Baldur's Gate 3 Pre-Release Thread [EARLY ACCESS RELEASED, GO TO NEW THREAD]

[Grunker]

There is TB and then there is TB.

A yawning gulf between Divinity fans and Jagged Alliance 2, Silent Storm and ToEE veterans.

The difference could be likened to that of Fallout and Oblivion With Guns, it's that stark in contrast.

False dichotomy. I like DOS2 and Fallout 1, but hate Oblivion and Fallout 3. ToEE is a mixed bag, excellent combat system, but terrible plot, and a combat system does not make a game by itself for me.

You liked the “plot” of DivOS2 huh

 

[Lilura]

combat system does not make a game by itself for me.

It's not just the combat system, though, is it. It's the ruleset employment (best ever), the strict itemization (+crafting), the party-based adventuring, the companion reactivity, the Greyhawk campaign setting, the embedded rules into the UI, and the combat encounter design. Not to mention the stunning aesthetics (secondary, but notable).

The game is a cult classic. And if those things aren't enough for you, you're a storyfag and thus irrelevant.

 

[Ismaul]

You should only get XP for kills on "final-moves", not beat-ups

Why? Defeating an enemy is defeating an enemy. Killing someone that is helpless shouldn't grant (additional) XP.

And it's not degenerate behavior as it's ingrained into the design (the NPCs are even coded to comment that you beat them up).

Farming NPCs for XP is degenerate behavior. Of course the NPCs comment on being beaten up, they're reactive. Getting into a fight with some is ok. But preventing farming would have required something such as making the camp unite and gang up on you when you beat up too many people in that camp. And then maybe kick you out.

But that's when as a designer you have to ask yourself: is the extra work worth it? The player that does this is clearly trying to exploit the game, do we prevent him from having his fun? Is it more fun that the whole camp turns on him and beats him up? (IMO it would but that is debatable)

 

[Ismaul]

There is TB and then there is TB.

A yawning gulf between Divinity fans and Jagged Alliance 2, Silent Storm and ToEE veterans.

The difference could be likened to that of Fallout and Oblivion With Guns, it's that stark in contrast.

False dichotomy. I like DOS2 and Fallout 1, but hate Oblivion and Fallout 3. ToEE is a mixed bag, excellent combat system, but terrible plot, and a combat system does not make a game by itself for me.

You liked the “plot” of DivOS2 huh

The overarching plot? It wasn't rebarbative. Moment to moment was ok, unlike ToEE.

 

[Lilura]

Why? Defeating an enemy is defeating an enemy. Killing someone that is helpless shouldn't grant (additional) XP.

The point is, why even have the beat-up mechanic? It's not necessary, and adds nothing.

Farming NPCs for XP is degenerate behavior.

Not it's not, it's natural. You get +XP and +wealth for one beat-up, you're gonna go around beating up every asshole in the camp because there are no negative consequences.

Of course the NPCs comment on being beaten up, they're reactive.

That's a misuse of the word reactive. If they were reactive, they'd have more than just "Oh, you beat me up and took all my shit, you're tough!"

And yeah, the reactivity should have been factional, not individual. Some stray comes into the camp and starts attacking merchants in it, guards aren't gonna stand idly by and watch. Especially when the story/lore talks about the value of merchants, and ore (the currency).

(some do attack, but it's not consistent.)

Some "simulation" (as you call it)

 

[Ismaul]

BG3 has almost already paid for itself in RTWP butthurt tears.

Hard to be upset when the one implementing it is the only major RPG developers that actually tries to innovate and push back the limits inherent to video game roleplaying.

My God yes I really felt the limits being pushed each time I picked up the next level’s suite of randomly generated items completely identical to my the ones I got last level except with marginally higher stats. Such innovation!

Way to pick one of the non-innovative parts. Good job, attacking a strawman!

DOS1-2 games have done and tried things not many RPGs have: interactivity with in-game items, a narrator, third-person dialogue choices, ability to split the party, party PvP and doing quests on opposing sides, environmental surfaces interaction, spell / ability interaction and combos, "origins" as companions and playable characters, tag-based backgrounds and dialogue choices, etc.

 

[Ismaul]

Why? Defeating an enemy is defeating an enemy. Killing someone that is helpless shouldn't grant (additional) XP.

The point is, why even have the beat-up mechanic? It's not necessary, and adds nothing.

Yeah, why don't we just kill people instead of sending them to prison IRL? Because people work that way, we don't kill for no reason. The game is trying to build a believable world.

Also, killing does have different consequences. Beating someone up and taking their stuff is viewed as acceptable, since the camps work by might makes right. But killing is going too far, and you'll be hunted if you do it.

Farming NPCs for XP is degenerate behavior.

Not it's not, it's natural. You get +XP and +wealth for one beat-up, you're gonna go around beating up every asshole in the camp because there are no negative consequences.

Of course the NPCs comment on being beaten up, they're reactive.

That's a misuse of the word reactive. If they were reactive, they'd have more than just "Oh, you beat me up and took all my shit, you're tough!"

And yeah, the reactivity should have been factional, not individual. Some stray comes into the camp and starts attacking merchants in it, guards aren't gonna stand idly by and watch. Especially when the story/lore talks about the value of merchants, and ore (the currency).

(some do attack, but it's not consistent.)

Some "simulation" (as you call it)

You clearly don't care about immersion and simualting a believable world, since you think farming NPCs for XP is normal. So why ask for more simulation?

There's no game that did it better than Gothic, even if its implementation could be better.

 

[Zed]

TB combat is not a concern imo. I think it's probably the one great aspect about this so far, aside from Swen accidentally stabbing the female companion and saying shit at the live reveal

 

[Generic-Giant-Spider]

You know what pisses me off? Every forum I use to go on to talk about Baldur's Gate is now filled with people literally saying the old games suck. They're clearly not even Baldur's Gate fans. Sure some people excited for bg3 are fans but all I see are my old discussion spots being taken over by people literally calling them shit. This is what's wrong with Larian making a sequel to a 20 year old game and making it nothing like them. At least you people make your own threads to talk about bg3 and shit talk the original, I appreciate that.

What do you mean by "YOU PEOPLE?"

I'm just kidding. Yes, people shitting over BG1/BG2 to try and get hired by Larian by showing who can shill best annoy the shit out of me. This happens to many other game series' as well, though. It's just how the current retard culture works. If it's new it's automatically better, hence why EA Sports and Activision are still in business.

 

[DraQ]

State of the medium:
https://www.pcgamesn.com/baldurs-gate-3/sex
"You can be a Halfling and bang all your companions in Baldur’s Gate 3"

Is he charging his lazor or what?

 

[Elwro]

I don't have time now. Is this really going to be turn-based? Can we finally count on a polished ToEE-style RPG?

 

[Theodora]

You know what pisses me off? Every forum I use to go on to talk about Baldur's Gate is now filled with people literally saying the old games suck. They're clearly not even Baldur's Gate fans. Sure some people excited for bg3 are fans but all I see are my old discussion spots being taken over by people literally calling them shit. This is what's wrong with Larian making a sequel to a 20 year old game and making it nothing like them. At least you people make your own threads to talk about bg3 and shit talk the original, I appreciate that.

You don't have to think the old games suck to know time doesn't follow nostalgic angst.

 

[Generic-Giant-Spider]

Is this really going to be turn-based?

Yes.

Can we finally count on a polished ToEE-style RPG?

No.

 

[Elwro]

Is this really going to be turn-based?

Yes.

Can we finally count on a polished ToEE-style RPG?

No.

Thanks

 

[NJClaw]

You know what pisses me off? Every forum I use to go on to talk about Baldur's Gate is now filled with people literally saying the old games suck. They're clearly not even Baldur's Gate fans. Sure some people excited for bg3 are fans but all I see are my old discussion spots being taken over by people literally calling them shit. This is what's wrong with Larian making a sequel to a 20 year old game and making it nothing like them. At least you people make your own threads to talk about bg3 and shit talk the original, I appreciate that.

The old games do not suck, they are the reasons many of us are here. But it's possible to be excited for BG3 without thinking the old games suck, you know?

 

[MajorMace]

modern romance npcs are made by chads

By a large margin, the most underrated poster here.

People who wanted a game identical to BG1/2 but new should check out this cool game called Baldur's Gate: Siege of Dragonspear.

This but unironically.
Am I the only cuck who had a good time on siege of dragonspear ?

 

[Riddler]

modern romance npcs are made by chads

By a large margin, the most underrated poster here.

People who wanted a game identical to BG1/2 but new should check out this cool game called Baldur's Gate: Siege of Dragonspear.

This but unironically.
Am I the only cuck who had a good time on siege of dragonspear ?

It had some great dungeon design and interesting use of the IE engine but lackluster to straight up awful writing.

 

[holla_cabezas_de_mierda]

combat system does not make a game by itself for me.

It's not just the combat system, though, is it. It's the ruleset employment (best ever), the strict itemization (+crafting), the party-based adventuring, the companion reactivity, the Greyhawk campaign setting, the embedded rules into the UI, and the combat encounter design. Not to mention the stunning aesthetics (secondary, but notable).

The game is a cult classic. And if those things aren't enough for you, you're a storyfag and thus irrelevant.

I just started playing ToEE like 2 days ago for the first time in like 10-12 years, using Temple+...is there no way to right click to get item/weapon descriptions? Seems like only description appears in dialogue box when you hover over item and right click just equips the item.

I have tried a bunch of other buttons too. I thought I recalled the game having more detailed item description menu, but I played it so long ago I could be not remembering right.

 

[NJClaw]

By a large margin, the most underrated poster here.

This but unironically.
Am I the only cuck who had a good time on siege of dragonspear ?

It had some great dungeon design and interesting use of the IE engine but lackluster to straight up awful writing.

Oh boy, are we rehabilitating SoD? Oh boy, oh boy

 

[Riddler]

By a large margin, the most underrated poster here.

This but unironically.
Am I the only cuck who had a good time on siege of dragonspear ?

It had some great dungeon design and interesting use of the IE engine but lackluster to straight up awful writing.

Oh boy, are we rehabilitating SoD? Oh boy, oh boy

This is not rehabilitation, I believe it was more or less consensus on release. Wanna weigh in Lilura ?

 

[Lilura]

This is not rehabilitation, I believe it was more or less consensus on release. Wanna weigh in Lilura ?

Not really, because I wrote a walkthrough for that fucker and don't want to say much more about it. I will say that aVENGER's combat encounter design IS good. We can hate on SoD and Beamdog all we like, but aVENGER is an IE modding legend.

 

[MajorMace]

There's nothing to rehabilitate, I don't think most people gave a fuck about it in the first place.
PS : Let's not turn this into an off-topic debate. My point was merely that what rusty_shackleford ironically suggested, ie. if you're interested in actual bg gameplay, give a look to siege of dragonspear, is what I did back then and I'd suggest it unironically.
Simply put, if you really like bg traditional gameplay and haven't checked sod out, but still shitpost on larian's DOS/BG mix (mostly to mourn the gameplay, I assume), what the fuck is wrong with you ?

 

[Riddler]

This is not rehabilitation, I believe it was more or less consensus on release. Wanna weigh in Lilura ?

Not really, because I wrote a walkthrough for that fucker and don't want to say much more about it. I will say that aVENGER's combat encounter design IS good. We can hate on SoD and Beamdog all we like, but aVENGER is an IE modding legend.

Do you know what he is doing now? Is he still in gamedev?

 

[Grunker]

BG3 has almost already paid for itself in RTWP butthurt tears.

Hard to be upset when the one implementing it is the only major RPG developers that actually tries to innovate and push back the limits inherent to video game roleplaying.

My God yes I really felt the limits being pushed each time I picked up the next level’s suite of randomly generated items completely identical to my the ones I got last level except with marginally higher stats. Such innovation!

Way to pick one of the non-innovative parts. Good job, attacking a strawman!

DOS1-2 games have done and tried things not many RPGs have: interactivity with in-game items, a narrator, third-person dialogue choices, ability to split the party, party PvP and doing quests on opposing sides, environmental surfaces interaction, spell / ability interaction and combos, "origins" as companions and playable characters, tag-based backgrounds and dialogue choices, etc.

That's exactly my point. All of these gimmicks to the exclusion of fundamental, basic systems that you spend most of your time interacting with. It was somewhat bearable in the first game because they really went all out on all those new systems which made them really fun to toy around with until the end of the game where you start to realize how the core systems aren't all that exciting. But then in the second game they reigned all that crazyness back in and went even more basic with the fundamental RPG systems.

There is TB and then there is TB.

A yawning gulf between Divinity fans and Jagged Alliance 2, Silent Storm and ToEE veterans.

The difference could be likened to that of Fallout and Oblivion With Guns, it's that stark in contrast.

False dichotomy. I like DOS2 and Fallout 1, but hate Oblivion and Fallout 3. ToEE is a mixed bag, excellent combat system, but terrible plot, and a combat system does not make a game by itself for me.

You liked the “plot” of DivOS2 huh

The overarching plot? It wasn't rebarbative. Moment to moment was ok, unlike ToEE.

It was a ruinous mess of the cartoony non-writing from the first game combined with an Animeesque propensity for super badass side-characters, vagueness and constant nonsensical side-tracking

 

[Jimmious]

But then in the second game they reigned all that crazyness back and went even more basic with the fundamental RPG systems.

And this is what's cool with BG3 - they are being obviously more restrained in all the craziness and they are actually implementing a proper RPG system