Baldur's Gate Baldur's Gate 3 Pre-Release Thread [EARLY ACCESS RELEASED, GO TO NEW THREAD]

[NJClaw]

Another problem with cooldowns, is that they provide incentive to use your spells/abilities with the longest cooldowns first. It's the most efficient output of power, since the sooner you use a spell, the sooner you can use it again. In a resource based system, the incentive is to use spells proportionate to the challenge.

You can have other resources to manage in addition to cooldowns, so that's not an unsolvable problem. You just have to make those resources matter.

If you already have a resource mechanic, then a cooldown becomes unnecessary. Placing too many restrictions on ability use is bothersome and can become very arbitrary. If a bunch of "tax mechanics" are deemed necessary to restrain a class or spell, then the fundamental design of said class or spell(s) should be reconsidered.

Even if you have other resources, cooldowns can still serve a purpose. Dragon Age: Origins without cooldowns would be a completely crazy shitshow, because they are fundamental to prevent you from going nova.

Also, D&D uses cooldowns sometimes, just not that frequently and almost exclusively for monsters abilities.

 

[Ontopoly]

The alternative is to force unnecessary camping mechanics which is why isolating it to long rests is a good compromise between game flow and rule adherence. As you are reading this your autism meter is rising and you can't wait to bring up Pathfinder's excellent resource management but deep down you know that became obsolete after a few hours of amassing camping supplies.

I've literally criticized being able to horde the supplies in late game in this very thread, although I don't expect you to have seen every message in all 600 pages. The rests wouldn't be unnecessary because it would mean recovering your spells and managing your resources, which is the whole point of both long and short rest mechanics. I would have preferred Pathfinder kingmaker to do something like Poe. Limit camp fires you can carry at once based on difficulty and if a dungeon is long enough that it needs more, they can hide them in the dungeon like they did in the Cyclops chapter. Would have been even better in kingmaker than Poe because you would be punished for walking back to town to get more by the whole time limit mechanics.

Yeah, those arguments are stupid. But that shouldn't be a big surprise, since they came directly from you.

Saraven is literally defending the short rest decision right above you and saying short rests are useless anyways. I'm not making up anything. Maybe you're not that far into the shill machine yet but some of you cultists are.

 

[Cryomancer]

I hope then that Larian takes this issue into consideration when adapting classes.

The lv cap will gonna be 10. That means that the strongest evocation spell will be Cone of Cold(8d8), so will be no stop time, no Wish or similar spells(unless via scrolls)

Dragon Age: Origins without cooldowns would be a completely crazy shitshow, because they are fundamental to prevent you from going nova.

If you take out cooldowns from any game designed around it, the game suddenly become a mess. This is why you can't just mod to remove CDs on game with it. The exception is the games that takes a system without cooldowns and had the (dumb) idea of putting cooldowns. Example? Sword Coast Legends and Low Magic Age.

Anyway, vancian magic system translates easily to computers. Is not like Mage the ascension or even certain vampire disciplines from vampire the masquarede and not only thaumaturgy. Even the more melee and shapeshift disciplines are hard to translate. Mask of 1000 faces for eg...

 

[Harthwain]

Saraven is literally defending the short rest decision right above you and saying short rests are useless anyways. I'm not making up anything. Maybe you're not that far into the shill machine yet but some of you cultists are.

Like who? Expose them!

But seriously speaking - I am curious if you can name more than a single person (rusty).

 

[Gangrelrumbler]

Someone mentioned “why on sigil spell work the same?”

because the lady of pain and vecna.

google “Die Vecna Die!”

Does it also explain why spells work the same everywhere else: Dragonlance, Darksun (minus the lifedrain part), Ravenloft etc?

 

[Cryomancer]

Does it also explain why spells work the same everywhere else: Dragonlance, Darksun (minus the lifedrain part), Ravenloft etc?

Shadowfell still under influence of Mystra. Dragon lance IDK. Dark Sun, if tier 11 spells exists on Dark Sun setting, only the sorcerer kings knows it. And considering their age, i believe that they use a certain high tier magic to extend his life at expense of slaves. Arcane practitioners on dark sun are extremely rare, as preservers or defilers, but the Sorcerers Kings are the closest things to Gods.

-----------------------

But only i would love to see less "Faerun low level adveture" and more unique things?

• Spelljammer
• A campaign on city of embers
• A aquatic campaign with arrogant chaotic Marids
• A Netheril campaign

Video games rarely explore this unique settings. The feyworld is very common on pathfinder but and i really wish to see abyss common on the next pathfinder and hope to see a little of Arvenus on Baldur's Gate 3.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

Maybe D&D should have cooldowns considering how broken casters are in pretty much every version

 

[Saravan]

The alternative is to force unnecessary camping mechanics which is why isolating it to long rests is a good compromise between game flow and rule adherence. As you are reading this your autism meter is rising and you can't wait to bring up Pathfinder's excellent resource management but deep down you know that became obsolete after a few hours of amassing camping supplies.

I've literally criticized being able to horde the supplies in late game in this very thread, although I don't expect you to have seen every message in all 600 pages. The rests wouldn't be unnecessary because it would mean recovering your spells and managing your resources, which is the whole point of both long and short rest mechanics. I would have preferred Pathfinder kingmaker to do something like Poe. Limit camp fires you can carry at once based on difficulty and if a dungeon is long enough that it needs more, they can hide them in the dungeon like they did in the Cyclops chapter. Would have been even better in kingmaker than Poe because you would be punished for walking back to town to get more by the whole time limit mechanics.

Yeah, those arguments are stupid. But that shouldn't be a big surprise, since they came directly from you.

Saraven is literally defending the short rest decision right above you and saying short rests are useless anyways. I'm not making up anything. Maybe you're not that far into the shill machine yet but some of you cultists are.

I personally find that differentiating short rest as per encounter and long rest as camping within the framework of a turn-based game strikes a fair balance between maintaining a satisfying momentum in the combat system (game flow) and adhering to the rule-set that they have chosen to apply, in this case D&D 5e. I also appreciate an awareness from the developer in that one is first and foremost playing a video game and not an autistic simulation of P&P rules. If that makes me a shill then I will shill on buddy boy. I have never said that Larian is perfect or that this game will be. I bet you can't find any post in all of these +600 pages that someone share a sentiment akin to a "cultist" or "fanboy" but you are so wrapped up in your butthurt that you are incapable of seeing that.

 

[Gangrelrumbler]

Does it also explain why spells work the same everywhere else: Dragonlance, Darksun (minus the lifedrain part), Ravenloft etc?

Shadowfell still under influence of Mystra. Dragon lance IDK. Dark Sun, if tier 11 spells exists on Dark Sun setting, only the sorcerer kings knows it. And considering their age, i believe that they use a certain high tier magic to extend his life at expense of slaves. Arcane practitioners on dark sun are extremely rare, as preservers or defilers, but the Sorcerers Kings are the closest things to Gods.

I've checked and there actually are 10th level spells for Darksun, so that's checks out. As for Ravenloft, Shadowfell as in 4th edition and later didn't exist back in the ADnD and Ravenloft couldn't be connected to it back in those times.

 

[Cryomancer]

Maybe D&D should have cooldowns considering how broken casters are in pretty much every version

If managing cooldowns are a chore on video games, imagine on TTRPG's... Imagine a wizard that knows 60 spells managing the cooldown of each one in a TT game.

4e had some at will spells that require waiting time per rounds and 4e is the worst edition ever.

I've checked and there actually are 10th level spells for Darksun, so that's checks out.

Yep. But unlesss you are lv 20 and did a AMAZING job for the Sorcerer King, no way that the sorcerer king would reward you with a scroll with the spell which deals a massive OHK damage in a area and for each victim who failed the fortitude save, +1 year of life to the caster. I believe that they have that scroll.

As for Netheril, to cast tier 11 spells, you need to be at least lv 35 to cast in Netheril. See page 18 of the book : Netheril : Empire of magic.

And Karsus when he casted Karsus Avatar was AT LEAST lv 40.

This is why makes no sense when the "next level : godhood" appears for lv 30 characters on icewind dale... You need to be at least lv 40 to be able to cast a spell that can turn you into a deity. And some people here pretends that lv 11 is reaching godhood...

 

[rusty_shackleford]

men that wear dresses shouldn't be powerful so it makes sense that spellcasters are weak

 

[Cryomancer]

Men that needs armor should't be powerful

fixed for you.

PS : Clerics and Warlocks on 3.5e can cast inside armor with no problem.

 

[Mortmal]

Are there any 4th Ed D&D games?

Neverwinter(the MMO) originally was iirc

It was 4E by name, a system that could have been used for tactical rpg, but even tha

Maybe D&D should have cooldowns considering how broken casters are in pretty much every version

If managing cooldowns are a chore on video games, imagine on TTRPG's... Imagine a wizard that knows 60 spells managing the cooldown of each one in a TT game.

4e had some at will spells that require waiting time per rounds and 4e is the worst edition ever.

I've checked and there actually are 10th level spells for Darksun, so that's checks out.

Yep. But unlesss you are lv 20 and did a AMAZING job for the Sorcerer King, no way that the sorcerer king would reward you with a scroll with the spell which deals a massive OHK damage in a area and for each victim who failed the fortitude save, +1 year of life to the caster. I believe that they have that scroll.

As for Netheril, to cast tier 11 spells, you need to be at least lv 35 to cast in Netheril. See page 18 of the book : Netheril : Empire of magic.

And Karsus when he casted Karsus Avatar was AT LEAST lv 40.

This is why makes no sense when the "next level : godhood" appears for lv 30 characters on icewind dale... You need to be at least lv 40 to be able to cast a spell that can turn you into a deity. And some people here pretends that lv 11 is reaching godhood...

Thats for 2e right ? I think i remember to become a dragon in dark sun, which is pretty close to godhood, you needed 20 level in defiler + 20 level in psionics as well .

 

[Cryomancer]

Thats for 2e right ? I think i remember to become a dragon in dark sun, which is pretty close to godhood, you needed 20 level in defiler + 20 level in psionics as well .

Yep. And Chronos on 5e who is considered a godslayer is if i remember correctly CR 55(not sure), people here saying that a lv 5 to 20 adventure is ascension to godhood when in reality, a lv 20 character needs a very long road to become powerful as the weakest lesser deity. Demigods, maybe 6 lv 20 guys with careful planing, lucky and DM favoritism can defeat one. And note : i an saying maybe. Demon Lords are far weaker than Gods and Demogorgon is CR 23 on 3.5e according to wiki. https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Demogorgon

 

[Lawntoilet]

PS : Clerics and Warlocks on 3.5e can cast inside armor with no problem.

In 5e anyone with proficiency can cast in armor no problem (one of many reasons that Paladin/Sorc and Paladin/Warlock multiclasses are the munchkin's choice build, personally I like Eldritch Knight/Wizard). Armor proficiencies are pretty easy to get.

 

[Ninjerk]

men that wear dresses shouldn't be powerful so it makes sense that spellcasters are weak

fixed for you.

PS : Clerics and Warlocks on 3.5e can cast inside armor with no problem.

Imagine if there were a perfect middle ground like armored pajamas. Man, how cool would that be?

 

[Cryomancer]

What i think interesting is. Here in Codex, you have people that love to play as mages(like myself), people that love monks(Pinkie eye), people that love Barbarians, but i don't know anyone that love Fighters.... Anyway, one good thing about lv cap = 10, is that it limits the pun pun builds. So, clerics of a lawful good deity with a warlock pact with a chaotic evil demon will gonna suffer.

 

[Darth Canoli]

You'd be surprised if you knew how many codexers love their dwarves fighters.

 

[Lacrymas]

Maybe D&D should have cooldowns considering how broken casters are in pretty much every version

D&D casters need a staggered spell level progression that goes up to lvl 6 at most. Lvl 7+ is where the real craziness starts happening because it feels like the devs/writers are running out of ideas and just throwing everything bonkers they can think of in there. They are less characters and more debug consoles at that point.

but i don't know anyone that love Fighters....

There's nothing there to really love. Fighters have been multiclass filler that add a substantial martial power boost for little investment for quite a while now. At least since AD&D.

 

[Efe]

pure fighter is boring.
but fighter/x gishes are much more fun to play than pure x

 

[rusty_shackleford]

Fighter was always intended to be the class for new players.

 

[Lawntoilet]

What i think interesting is. Here in Codex, you have people that love to play as mages(like myself), people that love monks(Pinkie eye), people that love Barbarians, but i don't know anyone that love Fighters...

There's nothing there to really love. Fighters have been multiclass filler that add a substantial martial power boost for little investment for quite a while now. At least since AD&D.

They've got stuff to love in 5e I would say because they've finally got more to do than "I attack."
Well, not Champions, but Battlemaster and Cavalier are cool. So is Eldritch Knight but they are a gish and not a normal fighter.

fighter/x gishes are much more fun to play than pure x

Almost always true, unless it works better as Paladin/X.

 

[Mr. Magniloquent]

The Battle Master archetype in D&D 5E is pretty cool. The maneuvers give you a variety of minor abilities which are fun and sensible. Otherwise, boring. In a system & setting with magic everywhere, the guy who is only good at swinging a sword stops making sense. They can make a decent 1 level dip for many classes in 5E, but otherwise, there always feels like a more enjoyable option.

PS: Lawntoilet is right about Eldritch Knights. I forgot that they were a fighter archetype. Still, it's decent because it's not much like a fighter.

 

[Lawntoilet]

The Battle Master archetype in D&D 5E is pretty cool. The maneuvers give you a variety of minor abilities which are fun and sensible. Otherwise, boring. In a system & setting with magic everywhere, the guy who is only good at swinging a sword stops making sense. They can make a decent 1 level dip for many classes in 5E, but otherwise, there always feels like a more enjoyable option.

The only archetype who is "only good at swinging a sword" is Champion (maybe Banneret, but I would contend that Banneret isn't very good at anything).
Of course once fullcasters get 6th/7th level spells or higher most other classes start feeling less relevant.

 

[Gangrelrumbler]

There's nothing there to really love. Fighters have been multiclass filler that add a substantial martial power boost for little investment for quite a while now. At least since AD&D.

Thankfully it changes in the video game adaptations. When you need to manage 6 people having one guy who doesn't need any help to be good at what he does and is also good at not getting killed is a godsend.