Baldur's Gate Baldur's Gate 3 Pre-Release Thread [EARLY ACCESS RELEASED, GO TO NEW THREAD]

[TemplarGR]

what are actually the pros of having 6 party members other than “TWAS IN BG LIKE THIS!!”? a... bigger party?
with the increase of character building complexity and shit i’ve started to find it quite weary to level up all 6 characters

Yeah what is the point of making a Baldur's Gate III game, a sequel after 20 years, if the "TWAS IN BG LIKE THIS" is reason to do things that way, amirite? I mean they are making BGIII, they are not supposed to be similar games, right? BGIII is just a marketing trick to sell DOSIII to more sheeple.

 

[TemplarGR]

The most significant effect of the reduced party size is the reduced power of the party. If you had a 6-member party in D:OS or BG3 for that matter, encounters should be beeffed accordingly, by adding more enemies or making them more powerful. Considering the limited size of the battlefield and manipulation of the environment acting as a force multiplier, it may be harder to fine tune encounters so that gameplay remains fun. For example party members can be cramped together, which makes AoE spells more powerful, and ganging up on single party members becomes more effective. Not saying it can't be done, but modifying party size can have pretty far reaching effects. You can balance this by sharing exp, making 4-member parties a level or two higher, but even so, it may be easier to fine tune the entire game for a standard party. Say what you will about D:OS 1 and 2, but imo their encounter designs were very well done, which shouldn't be taken for granted.

I desperately need a "shill" button to rate posts like these....

 

[Elex]

speaking of, how and especially where do they gather feedback from players?
i mean it’s not here, right?

Consider what they have changed/fixed in the game is more here and clearly not reddit or larian forum. Maybe some other tabletop or crpg forum.

In particular the narrator is not a small change.

They listen to feedbacks about ruleset.

They don’t care about “haha dos3” or “muh rtwp” people.

so the impression is that bg3 is made as the definitive 5e marketing tool more than other things.

 

[Dodo1610]

There is the official Larian forum http://forums.larian.com/ubbthreads.php but Swen is definitely aware of the Codex or else he wouldn't have tweeted at them

 

[Lacrymas]

I can see people everywhere being salty about the past tense thing, but who else has the self-awareness/experience to complain about the initiative?

 

[underground nymph]

i’d fuck that goblin chick, damn she’s hot

 

[NJClaw]

what are actually the pros of having 6 party members other than “TWAS IN BG LIKE THIS!!”? a... bigger party?
with the increase of character building complexity and shit i’ve started to find it quite weary to level up all 6 characters

With a bigger party you can experiment more with various combinations of characters and classes. Personally, I always want at least a sorcerer, a cleric and a druid, so that doesn't leave much space to try different party combinations. I can do something like paladin/sorcerer/cleric/druid or bard/sorcerer/cleric/druid, but I will never be able to try more "exotic" combinations. With 6 characters, I could do something like paladin/bard/sorcerer/cleric/druid/warlock.

 

[Gargaune]

Think about it for a moment... In Baldur's Gate, you start off as a snot-nosed whelp whose foster father gets ganked in the woods.

a whelp who is coincidentally, surprise surprise, a descendant of the

Spoiler

god of murder

right, nothing to look at here folks

That's not the point, I'm not saying the protagonist can't be a rare and special little flower (though I tend to prefer games where they're not). The issue is the circumstances of the introduction - BG doesn't kick off with a host of celestials duking it out with Abazigal over Candlekeep. All you've got at the start is that some creepy bloke in expensive armour wants to split your fucking skull for some reason. By Forgotten Realms standards, that's relatively mundane.

 

[Thac0]

what are actually the pros of having 6 party members other than “TWAS IN BG LIKE THIS!!”? a... bigger party?
with the increase of character building complexity and shit i’ve started to find it quite weary to level up all 6 characters

With a bigger party you can experiment more with various combinations of characters and classes. Personally, I always want at least a sorcerer, a cleric and a druid, so that doesn't leave much space to try different party combinations. I can do something like paladin/sorcerer/cleric/druid or bard/sorcerer/cleric/druid, but I will never be able to try more "exotic" combinations. With 6 characters, I could do something like paladin/bard/sorcerer/cleric/druid/warlock.

Additionally more complex parties also make loot more meaningfull. Usually your armor comes in four different loot "tiers". Light armor, medium armor, heavy armor, magicians equipment. In a 4 man party not having one of those 4 archetypes means you will find a lot of loot which is just useless for you. If you run one of each upgrades are pretty simple, just equip the better sword. In a 6 man party you will however always have people competing for the same type of equipment, making the itemisation by default much more engaging and interesting.
Also combat gets more tactical the more guys you have involved.
And I never get weary of leveling up, its the best thing about rpgs. 6 guys means more choices to be made about skill distribution etc more often. To me thats more fun.

I have played rpgs with parties ranging from 2-8 heroes, and the jumps from 2 to 3 and 3 to 4 guys is the biggest increase in fun, so I am fine with 4 man.
5 man is my favourite, 6 is better than 4 but I think you care a bit less about individuals with 6 rather than 5. 7 and 8 are straining the border from rpg to tactical game.

 

[Nortar]

That's not the point, I'm not saying the protagonist can't be a rare and special little flower (though I tend to prefer games where they're not). The issue is the circumstances of the introduction - BG doesn't kick off with a host of celestials duking it out with Abazigal over Candlekeep.

I agree.

In BG1 and especially BG2 the main antagonist was shown as deadly and extremely dangerous.
Sarevok slaying Gorion, Irenicus turning shadow thieves and wizards into bloody gibs like it was nothing, - they commanded respect.
Inevitable confrontation with them loomed ahead as something not to be taken lightly.

And what we have here?
A character, who has barely 5 minutes ago got his ass handed to him by a bunch of lame goblins, goes all chest-puffing "I'll rip out you tongue!" to a fucking devil!
And every branch of the dialog before that had at least one option like "die by my hand, lol".
Have the devils in 5E Forgotten Realms become just as common and dangerous as some snotty street punks?
But instead of teaching the protagonist a lesson of humility and respect, the devil just waves it off.

Of course it's too early to judge, maybe if it actually did get to a combat, the things would be different.
But I hope that the character won't get "I'm the center of the multiverse" attitude right from the beginning of the game.

 

[Lacrymas]

With a bigger party you can experiment more with various combinations of characters and classes. Personally, I always want at least a sorcerer, a cleric and a druid, so that doesn't leave much space to try different party combinations. I can do something like paladin/sorcerer/cleric/druid or bard/sorcerer/cleric/druid, but I will never be able to try more "exotic" combinations. With 6 characters, I could do something like paladin/bard/sorcerer/cleric/druid/warlock.

I'd make a Druid/Bard/Warlock/Rogue group tbh. I'm more flexible like that. I'd even swap the Rogue for something else. Oh, and there's multiclassing.

 

[Delterius]

Wizard wizard wizard luggage man

 

[Roguey]

I can see people everywhere being salty about the past tense thing, but who else has the self-awareness/experience to complain about the initiative?

I don't care about individual or group initiative, though D:OS 2's forced round robin was the worst thing ever.

 

[Lacrymas]

I don't care about individual or group initiative, though D:OS 2's forced round robin was the worst thing ever.

Group initiative makes it easier overall because first of all you don't have to build all characters for initiative if you want them to act first and one after the other, and second of all because you can chain attacks however you wish, easily creating powerful combinations that are otherwise a bitch to execute.

 

[Thac0]

I don't care about individual or group initiative, though D:OS 2's forced round robin was the worst thing ever.

Group initiative makes it easier overall because first of all you don't have to build all characters for initiative if you want them to act first and one after the other, and second of all because you can chain attacks however you wish, easily creating powerful combinations that are otherwise a bitch to execute.

But with group initiative you very often end up just executing the same loops. Bard casts grease, followed by wizard using fireball, followed by cleric casting bless, followed by fighter going to town at the beginning of every combat.
With individual initiative you get thrown into stranger situations where you have to adapt your strategy more often.

 

[AwesomeButton]

And I now find the Githyanki weirdly sexy. Too bad she's explicitly the cuck choice.

Everything ever has always been a cuck choice in RPG romance options. People should get a life if they want romance. This romance thing is like playing make believe with children's toys.

The only worthy choice when romance options come up is to turn them all down. Refuse sex to both Triss and Yennefer and watch their fussy expressions.

 

[vonAchdorf]

Choosing between Rachel and Flint in WC3 is the only :monocled: romance option I can remember. And that's not even an RPG.

 

[Lacrymas]

The only worthy choice when romance options come up is to turn them all down. Refuse sex to both Triss and Yennefer and watch their fussy expressions.

I am playing Witcher 1 out of morbid curiosity and I was trying to not sleep with anyone, but the game tricked me into sleeping with Triss by having vague dialogue options that I didn't know would lead to sex. It was something like "I'll stay a bit to make sure the potion is working ok". Let it be known that it was awkward and unwanted.

 

[AwesomeButton]

The only worthy choice when romance options come up is to turn them all down. Refuse sex to both Triss and Yennefer and watch their fussy expressions.

I am playing Witcher 1 out of morbid curiosity and I was trying to not sleep with anyone, but the game tricked me into sleeping with Triss by having vague dialogue options that I didn't know would lead to sex. Let it be known that it was awkward and unwanted.

In real men's RPGs the male hero has to be careful lest the women take advantage of him sexually.

 

[vonAchdorf]

In real men's RPGs the male hero has to be careful lest the women take advantage of him sexually.

Isn't it part of the lore, that women are after the Witchers because they are convenient? STD free, infertile and always leaving soon.

 

[AwesomeButton]

In real men's RPGs the male hero has to be careful lest the women take advantage of him sexually.

Isn't it part of the lore, that women are after the Witchers because they are convenient? STD free, infertile and always leaving soon.

I don't know because I won't inflict any more Sapkowski on myself after reading The Last Wish (the book), but I think they are after Geralt in particular because he is dark, mysterious, in good shape, and can't get them pregnant by accident. In Witcher 3 at least it is in no way shown that other witchers are as successful with the hookups.

 

[Elex]

Think about it for a moment... In Baldur's Gate, you start off as a snot-nosed whelp whose foster father gets ganked in the woods.

a whelp who is coincidentally, surprise surprise, a descendant of the

Spoiler

god of murder

right, nothing to look at here folks

That's not the point, I'm not saying the protagonist can't be a rare and special little flower (though I tend to prefer games where they're not). The issue is the circumstances of the introduction - BG doesn't kick off with a host of celestials duking it out with Abazigal over Candlekeep. All you've got at the start is that some creepy bloke in expensive armour wants to split your fucking skull for some reason. By Forgotten Realms standards, that's relatively mundane.

It kick off with meeting elminster after escaping candlekeep and searching for a contact with the harpers.

only people that don’t know the lore of forgotten realms can consider that “mundane”.
I know that don’t have the same scenographic effect but at a level of pure “powerfull stuff you meet” is insane.
Sons of a god and chosen one of a god are more epic stuff than some dragons and mind flayers.

 

[Elex]

I agree.

In BG1 and especially BG2 the main antagonist was shown as deadly and extremely dangerous.
Sarevok slaying Gorion, Irenicus turning shadow thieves and wizards into bloody gibs like it was nothing, - they commanded respect.
Inevitable confrontation with them loomed ahead as something not to be taken lightly.

And what we have here?
A character, who has barely 5 minutes ago got his ass handed to him by a bunch of lame goblins, goes all chest-puffing "I'll rip out you tongue!" to a fucking devil!
And every branch of the dialog before that had at least one option like "die by my hand, lol".
Have the devils in 5E Forgotten Realms become just as common and dangerous as some snotty street punks?
But instead of teaching the protagonist a lesson of humility and respect, the devil just waves it off.

Of course it's too early to judge, maybe if it actually did get to a combat, the things would be different.
But I hope that the character won't get "I'm the center of the multiverse" attitude right from the beginning of the game.

well consider that the city of Elturel have been teleported in avernus....
Devils are just like call center:
“Hello mr. adventurer can i make you an offer? For the small prime of ONE soul i can give you.....”
Like that 8-9 times a day.

 

[onemananadhisdroid]

August isn't that far away -- I'm starting to wonder what the minimum/recommended specs will look like.

Also, did they change from Early Access to Final Release for Original Sin?

 

[Harthwain]

Hell, even Baldur's Gate 2, when your character's already got some heroics under his belt, only kicks you off in Zed's basement.

Baldur's Gate 2 starts already on the epic note in the intro, by establishing you as a son of a literal god. God of Murder on top of that. And the Hero of Baldur's Gate. Then you fight for a control over a city (more or less), break out from the mage-prison for the strongest known mages, see/fight creatures from other planes (the Githyanki), go through the Underdark, fight dragons along the way...