Baldur's Gate Baldur's Gate 3 Pre-Release Thread [EARLY ACCESS RELEASED, GO TO NEW THREAD]

[Alienman]

Man, first Wasteland 3 is 60 euro and now this. I guess isometric RPGs are finally playing with the big boys.

 

[d1r]

Man, first Wasteland 3 is 60 euro and now this. I guess isometric RPGs are finally playing with the big boys.

Is W3 at least worth the 60e?

 

[Alienman]

Man, first Wasteland 3 is 60 euro and now this. I guess isometric RPGs are finally playing with the big boys.

Is W3 at least worth the 60e?

Perhaps, I would probably rate it as a 40 euro game.

 

[Readher]

Amazing how easy it is to start a shitstorm on plebbit.

 

[Joseph Stalin]

Comrades, at first I was half-joking about Irenicus. Now, seeing your comments, I am growing somewhat trepidatious. Especially since his voice actor is alive and more than willing to reprise his role, as we know all too well thanks to Siege of Dragonspear. Which, by the way, was a very decent game, fuck you Lilura.

 

[kangaxx]

Why pay full release price for a game in beta... and likely missing content? The main story will already be spoilt for you by the time Larian get round to adding the rest of the game around it.

 

[Spectacle]

Why pay full release price for a game in beta... and likely missing content? The main story will already be spoilt for you by the time Larian get round to adding the rest of the game around it.

If you think full price is too expensive for early access, you can instead wait a year and pay the same amount for the final release. Or even wait a bit longer than that for it to go on sale.

I'll be getting the BG3 EA because I want to evaluate Larian's D&D implementation and experiment with various builds.

 

[kangaxx]

Fair enough. I still think the problem with being content-spoilt before the full game is out is a problem though. Do you disagree or not bothered by that?

 

[Lacrymas]

Fair enough. I still think the problem with being content-spoilt before the full game is out is a problem though.

Not really, the content will be almost the same regardless. Nobody is forcing you to play it a lot either way, you might give it a go with 1-2 classes/builds, give your 2c, and be done with it until full release. If Larian take our criticism during EA seriously, it will be worth it to give it and shape the game to our liking. Really, the only things I predict being iffy are the writing and the encounters. Encounters can be easily changed though, so that's a plus.

 

[Joseph Stalin]

And once again the RPG cycle starts:
- Early Access - 2020
- Release - 2021
- DLC + Patches - 2022
- Ultimate Edition - 2023

See you in three years. I hate that Dragon Age: Origins popularised mid-game DLCs.

 

[kangaxx]

Fair enough. I still think the problem with being content-spoilt before the full game is out is a problem though.

Not really, the content will be almost the same regardless. Nobody is forcing you to play it a lot either way, you might give it a go with 1-2 classes/builds, give your 2c, and be done with it until full release. If Larian take our criticism during EA seriously, it will be worth it to give it and shape the game to our liking. Really, the only things I predict being iffy are the writing and the encounters. Encounters can be easily changed though, so that's a plus.

Ok, that's changed my perspective a bit. Might be worth a pop.

 

[Infinitron]

https://www.pcgamer.com/this-is-why...st-dollar60-when-it-launches-in-early-access/

This is why Baldur's Gate 3 will cost $60 when it launches in Early Access

Baldur's Gate 3 is tantalisingly close, or at least the Early Access version is. It's coming at the end of the month, and now we know how much cash will need to be slapped down if you want to take it for a spin early.

According to Larian director of publishing Michael Douse, Baldur's Gate 3 will be $60, making it Larian's priciest PC game. Divinity: Original Sin 2 was $60 on consoles, but on PC it launched at $45.

Douse revealed the price on Twitter, adding that people shouldn't "feel pressured to buy it during EA." As announced last month during the a livestream, the Early Access version will give you a 25-hour adventure that will take you to Faerun, Avernus and the Underdark. Drow and demons, what more could you want? That's just the first act, though, and the finished game will be, not surprisingly, quite a bit longer.

While this is a $15 increase over Larian's last game, Douse tells me that it reflects the size of the game and the team that designed it. Everything's bigger.

"DOS2 was finished with a much smaller team," he says. "Larian is over double the amount of people now, compared to when DOS2 launched. And BG3 is a bigger, deeper game with far higher production values. So not only did we increase depth, but we actually increased production values alongside it."

$60 for a new PC game is hardly uncommon, though in comparison to other Early Access games it is quite steep. Douse says he's seen very few complaints about paying $60 for a game that isn't finished yet, but he still worries about what he sees as a "perception problem" with Early Access. He argues that the $60 still nets Early Access players a full game when it's ready, and in the meantime the ability to play development builds and help shape the game adds additional value.

"It's better to think of Early Access as a playable preorder," he says. "Though of course it isn't exactly that. Its function is entirely to make the game better through pooling feedback and testing ideas, iterating directly with our audience."

Some Early Access players end up putting an ungodly number of hours into in-development games, submitting a litany of bug reports and feature requests. If players are doing QA, even if it's just because they're passionate about the game, there's an argument for that being reflected in a lower price or some other form of reciprocity.

While the price of Baldur's Gate 3 won't be reduced for Early Access, Douse notes some other ways that players can get value out of jumping in early.

"If people look back at the history of DOS2, there's a lot of reciprocity," he says. "We have transparent, consistent, intelligent conversations with our players. I think [they] feel listened to when our games are great value, with a huge amount of content, and we often come up with surprises that are more tangible. We don't have such plans for this yet (indeed during DOS2 at this stage we didn't either), but we did the Gift Bag DLCs, Definitive Edition update, etc. Huge investments, released for free. No promises on mirroring that, but I raise it to make the point that there are many other ways to cater to the audience outside of simply discounting at launch."

The Gift Bag DLCs, the latest of which appeared in June, have been given out to everyone, not just people who played during Early Access, but it still means that they've received a lot more than they paid for, even three years after launch.

"There are good ways and bad ways to do Early Access, but I do think we're doing it the right way," Douse says. "The point is we support our players long into EA, long after launch, long into the game's life-span. DOS2's final Gift Bag wasn't very long ago, and it's still getting updates. So I feel pretty strongly that not only is the value there at day one of Early Access, but the value of your $60 exponentially increases year on year in extraordinary ways. This was proven with DOS2, and BG3 is a new start of a similar journey from the same people."

I always feel a little bit strange embarking on an adventure in an Early Access RPG, because I know I'll never actually finish it. I'll hit the end of the Early Access version but have to wait months or years to start all over again. Of course, I'm willing to go through this terrible ordeal for Baldur's Gate 3. I mean, c'mon, Baldur's Gate 3. I've got to get my hands on it.

Regional prices have yet to be announced, but they'll be covered in an upcoming update ahead of the Early Access launch on September 30.

 

[Swen]

LMFAO at the suckers paying 60 bucks to beta test my game.

Holy fck, I truly am a mastermind.

 

[Belegarsson]

You don't pay 60 bucks to beta test the game, you pay 60 bucks for the full game plus beta access. I don't see how that's any different than Kickstarter projects.

 

[Ovplain]

You don't pay 60 bucks to beta test the game, you pay 60 bucks for the full game plus beta access. I don't see how that's any different than Kickstarter projects.

On September 30th you're only paying for a 'full game' if you choose to delude yourself into thinking that's what it is. It's not. And won't be a for a while.

I do agree though that this is about as scummy as if they went back to Kickstarter. After earning a pretty hefty chunk of change with D:OS 2 I'm sure. They don't need to be doing this, is what I'm saying. But they are, because they're a bunch of shameless greedy pukes trying to take advantage of their fanbase.

 

[Lacrymas]

They don't need to be doing this, is what I'm saying. But they are, because they're a bunch of shameless greedy pukes trying to take advantage of their fanbase.

They don't use kickstarter or EA for anything else than a very sly and clever advertisement campaign. It's actually genius tbh, the clients don't feel ripped off (because they aren't) and Larian get free publicity and beta testing (they don't get more money because you get the full game afterwards, you don't buy it again later). Going the kickstarter route means they actually make less money because KS takes a cut, so there's no taking advantage of. It also means we get to feel like our criticism matters. And maybe it does, who knows. Either way, my point is that it's not a scummy practice.

 

[ChildInTime]

The dwarf is right - you just pre-order the game and get beta access for your trouble. Better than most pre-order deals tbh.

 

[ADULF HITLOR FAN KLUB]

You don't pay 60 bucks to beta test the game, you pay 60 bucks for the full game plus beta access. I don't see how that's any different than Kickstarter projects.

Kamerad!

Have you already forgotten how much Divinity: Original Sin, Divinity: Original Sin 2, Wasteland 3 and so on costed on crowdfunding sites? That's right, only about 25 to 30 Reichsmark including beta access.

 

[J1M]

This deserves its own thread, but I will bury it here instead. This is the new model for game development. At first the success of early access confounded me, but then I realized that it was just a manifestation of the economic realities of game dev combined with the fact that most people do not finish the games that they start. For the consumer that doesn't normally finish games, early access is a complete experience.

I don't have any delusions about being able to influence the game design, but I am looking forward to the BG3 early access release because I think it will give me an incentive to do something I don't do that often: experiment with multiple character builds in a long RPG. Knowing that they are throwaway characters and that only a subset of the game will be available makes me more interested in experimenting with different builds.

 

[Harthwain]

You don't pay 60 bucks to beta test the game, you pay 60 bucks for the full game plus beta access. I don't see how that's any different than Kickstarter projects.

Kickstarter projects aren't guaranteed to succeed. Early Access titles may fail to deliver (read: be stuck in Early Access forever), but you have a playable game out of it, rather than having your money disappear without a trace.

On September 30th you're only paying for a 'full game' if you choose to delude yourself into thinking that's what it is. It's not. And won't be a for a while.

You are paying for the full game. Assuming it releases. That's the idea. Yes, it's not the finished product, hence the name "Early Access" (and not "Pre-order").

I do agree though that this is about as scummy as if they went back to Kickstarter. After earning a pretty hefty chunk of change with D:OS 2 I'm sure. They don't need to be doing this, is what I'm saying. But they are, because they're a bunch of shameless greedy pukes trying to take advantage of their fanbase.

Kickstarter is more scummy than Early Access, because there is literally no control over Kickstarter and no failsafes of any kind (no refunds when the project gets funded). It operates solely on the goodwill of people pitching for the product and people willing to risk their dime to see it happen. You can't be scammed in that manner by buying an Early Access on Steam, because there has to be the game in the first place and there is the possibility to refund as well.

 

[The Wall]

I always find it funny that Codex hates Kickstarter and Early Access. As flawed systems as they are, without them RPG Codex would be subforum at Bethesda.net. Reminds me of white feminists who hate western civilization

 

[Yosharian]

I actually respect that they are coming out in Early Access as a way to improve the game before full release. I think there is an aspect of trying to have one's cake and eat it here, but I at least respect the honesty of it, as opposed to other developers who release games in a half-finished state and attach the 'full game' label to them.

 

[Gargaune]

There's nothing fundamentally wrong with Early Access, it's just that it seems to have a "cheap" image, mostly associated with smaller projects and underdog developers who need outsourced QA and midway cash injections. Outside of the realm of MMOs, you'd expect this sort of public betas for something like Pathfinder: Kingmaker, but you'd be shocked if Cyberpunk 2077 went for it. When it comes to WotC, I seem to recall they were opposed to Kickstarter for the same reason, not wanting to give investors and the public the impression that they couldn't fund their videogame projects.

In other news, I don't know if this got covered, but I got a random video popping up in my YouTube feed where some guy is summarising a Twitch interview Swen did with some other guy:



The bits that stuck out to me:

- Level range previously expected 1 - 10, now supposed to be somewhat "higher": I like the idea of a middling level cap, having a more patient and significant progression curve smells like oldschool incline. On the other hand, it does also bring an even sharper contrast to the epic material being shown in the game's introduction, something I've already bitched about at length. It also makes me suspect that an expansion or sequel featuring the same protagonist PC is very likely.

- Whenever I start warming up to this game, I'm inevitably reminded that it's a Stadia flagship and gastric discomfort returns with a vengeance. I guess in an ideal world, BG3 would be a good RPG and commercially successful, just not on Stadia. But this world's far from ideal and I'd genuinely rather BG3 fail miserably than Google score a massive hit with their cloud shit. Because if the former happens it'll merely bury D&D videogames for another five to eight years, but the latter case would help Stadia spread its decline to the long term ruin of gaming entirely.

- BG3 "will eventually be mod friendly": it's completely reasonable Larian wouldn't want any modding during EA, and it's reassuring to hear it'll happen eventually. Hopefully, they can spare a couple of developers to have some mod support by the time they go gold, rather than have them all working on Stadia "likes" or what the fuck ever that shit has, but I'm not getting my hopes up.

- "Lone wolf mode..." Is this some new millenial-speak for soloing a game? I'm not even sure what it means, apparently the response was that Larian was focusing on the 4-man party plus occasional followers for now, but surely you can just elect not to take them with you, right? I mean, I was hoping to kill some of these fuckers at first sight, or at least tell them to fuck off forever and make my own custom meat puppets...

- Apparently combat will be more frequent than in tabletop (duh!) and CRs will differ from the Monster Manual (just in case the intro movie didn't clue you in). I'm just eager to see how Owlcat haters will react to this one.

- Oh, and EA won't have the full suite of Reactions. Well, it's not a complete game yet.

 

[Anonona]

"Lone wolf mode..." Is this some new millenial-speak for soloing a game?

I guess it refers to the talent "Lone Wolf" from Divinity Original Sin 1 and 2, which increased the "power" of your characters (doubling stat and skill points gain) as long as the party had 2 or less members, so you could play with small party or solo while still retaining a similar level of difficulty as a full party in theory. In practice it was totally broken, specially in 2, with characters being able to broke any combat encounter mid-game, so much so it got nerfed, and is still considered easier than playing with a full party.

 

[Gargaune]

I guess it refers to the talent "Lone Wolf" from Divinity Original Sin 1 and 2, which increased the "power" of your characters (doubling stat and skill points gain) as long as the party had 2 or less members, so you could play with small party or solo while still retaining a similar level of difficulty as a full party in theory. In practice it was totally broken, specially in 2, with characters being able to broke any combat encounter mid-game, so much so it got nerfed, and is still considered easier than playing with a full party.

Oh, I see. Only played a few hours of the original D:OS so I'm out of the loop. Sounds pretty dumb, just do party-wide XP and let the players deal with it like in, you know... Baldur's Gate...