Baldur's Gate Baldur's Gate 3 RELEASE THREAD

[Mortmal]

Possibly yes, but I hate the double standard around here. If you criticize those games the same way BG3 is criticized here, they are all terrible, utter shit. And the Codex review will be yet another joke, further undermining the credibility of the site, if that's even possible.

Codex being contrarian is nothing new, don't take it to heart so much. If everybody else loves a thing, codex will more than likely hate it.

This is especially true if it's from a big studio, seeing how Larian is "kind of AAA" now, whatever that means.

People arguing in good faith here (lol) generally dislike BG3 because they see it committing the same mistakes that BioWare and its ilk have years ago, as well as some serious flaws with the writing, worldbuilding, C&C, etc.

Do games like KotC2 and Caves of Lore have the same issues? Undoubtedly, and plenty of other ones to boot. But those games do not have budgets in the millions and they're passion projects, so they get a certain pass.

KotC2's flaw is its engine and its limitations. It's not so much of a problem if you're just looking for a tactical dungeon crawler. But that's what it was designed for. I've never played CoL though.

It's exactly what I am speaking about. Flaws are a lot more numerous than this, much, much more so, from the plot and writing to the encounter balance and presentation. And the budget has nothing to do with that. While BG3 has some flaws, they are very minor and nitpicking in comparison.

KotC2 doesn't need a complex plot or anything like that. The Augury of Chaos campaign is a structured combat dungeon and there is no illusion from anyone here that you play it for any reason other than its superb combat. It does exactly what it's designed for. It's encounter balance is excellent since most encounters are difficult while being reasonable enough for a player who is able to figure out a strategy for the encounter. The AI is excellent, still the best AI in any tactical game to this day. Your characters going through the dungeon is the plot and there doesn't have to be anything else.

The writing is passable in KotC2 and there's little enough of it that you can ignore it.

The problem with KotC2's presentation is the 3d sprites and 2.5d map added into to Augury which clashes with the original token/grid art style of the campaign. There's absolutely nothing wrong with the presentation outside of that. Though if you ask me, the biggest mistake was not just using the soulful sprites and textures from KotC1 for everything. There is nothing wrong with the presentation outside of that.

BG3's encounter balance is non-existent since most of the encounters are extremely easy even on Tactician difficulty. This is even if you don't exploit the gimmicks that made their way into the game from DOS2. The plot itself which is retarded from the beginning is a huge flaw. Invasion of the body snatchers was a shit movie and recreating its plotline in this game was retarded. And then you get the terrible globohomo writing and gay cutscenes that happen everywhere--a major flaw in itself. The game would have been better off without those things, especially without the cutscenes.

The attempt at photorealistic 3d graphics is always a mistake. It tends to be nothing but a waste of disc space and is always ugly.

Here we go again, nitpicking everything about BG3 but pretending that KotC2 is fine and doesn't need a plot. You start in a small village, then you explore the sewers, which already doesn't make sense for such a medieval village. In these sewers, there are armies of goblins with magic weapons battling, ancient dragons beneath ruins with mummies, and extraplanar levels. Eventually, you end up teleported to some castle without even knowing why for the final battle. You don't need a big plot for a dungeon crawler, I agree, but there's still a minimum of coherence to maintain.

As for the battle balance, KotC2 was unplayable at release and still turns down 99% of people. The fact is, no one plays it anymore. Regarding BG3 combat, it's not as unbalanced as you make it out to be; it may require some tweaking. If you follow the good path and do both the underworld and high mountains, you gain too much XP early, as I noticed in my second playthrough. This is easily fixable and doesn't make the game unenjoyable, you still stay in same encounter level tiers. Tactician mode, if you are reasonable with rests and don't save scum, is fine enough.

As for photorealistic 3D graphics being a mistake, it's only a problem when you don't have the budget, and mostly for indies. I can't help but picture a Codexer's kid spitting out caviar handed to him by Sven on a silver spoon. I could play with much lower-quality graphics, using pogs (with good art) and a 2D map. But why complain when you have actor performances with photorealistic graphics and superb 3D dioramas

 

[Grunker]

If I had to travel with the story companions, I would be in another camp with all kinds of traps set up and Alarm active.

Classic RPG companions: Your party is a lawful good paladin, a cleric of a neutral good deity, and a chaotic good thief.

Modern day RPGs: you get some fucking degenerate abominations, some of whom used to be in the monster lists.

If someone threatens to kill you you don't invite them to sleep 1m away 2 minutes later.

oh ho ho you should try playing dark urge if this bothers you lol

It doesn't bother me, because you get the option to kick them out.

I am playing durge (because I heard you can chop off Gales hand and prevent him from joining the party that way). I roll my eyes every time the pc introduces themselves with "Hello, my name is The Dark Urge".
But yeah, the companions sure do take it in stride when you explain that you sometimes kill people for no reason.

You know you can change the name, right?

As for my comment, my meaning was what you mentioned about how fast characters overlook it when they catch you in horrific acts, like murdering the bard lady.

 

[Lady Error]

And then you get the terrible globohomo writing and gay cutscenes that happen everywhere--a major flaw in itself.

Cool it with the anti-semitic remarks.

BG3's encounter balance is non-existent since most of the encounters are extremely easy even on Tactician difficulty.

I think there are quite a few encounters that can fuck you up if you do not position yourself in advance (eg. the Shar Temple diablo ambush). Though in the end, it is mostly about how many healing potions you want to waste on a fight - because you will win it anyway.

 

[MerchantKing]

Possibly yes, but I hate the double standard around here. If you criticize those games the same way BG3 is criticized here, they are all terrible, utter shit. And the Codex review will be yet another joke, further undermining the credibility of the site, if that's even possible.

Codex being contrarian is nothing new, don't take it to heart so much. If everybody else loves a thing, codex will more than likely hate it.

This is especially true if it's from a big studio, seeing how Larian is "kind of AAA" now, whatever that means.

People arguing in good faith here (lol) generally dislike BG3 because they see it committing the same mistakes that BioWare and its ilk have years ago, as well as some serious flaws with the writing, worldbuilding, C&C, etc.

Do games like KotC2 and Caves of Lore have the same issues? Undoubtedly, and plenty of other ones to boot. But those games do not have budgets in the millions and they're passion projects, so they get a certain pass.

KotC2's flaw is its engine and its limitations. It's not so much of a problem if you're just looking for a tactical dungeon crawler. But that's what it was designed for. I've never played CoL though.

It's exactly what I am speaking about. Flaws are a lot more numerous than this, much, much more so, from the plot and writing to the encounter balance and presentation. And the budget has nothing to do with that. While BG3 has some flaws, they are very minor and nitpicking in comparison.

KotC2 doesn't need a complex plot or anything like that. The Augury of Chaos campaign is a structured combat dungeon and there is no illusion from anyone here that you play it for any reason other than its superb combat. It does exactly what it's designed for. It's encounter balance is excellent since most encounters are difficult while being reasonable enough for a player who is able to figure out a strategy for the encounter. The AI is excellent, still the best AI in any tactical game to this day. Your characters going through the dungeon is the plot and there doesn't have to be anything else.

The writing is passable in KotC2 and there's little enough of it that you can ignore it.

The problem with KotC2's presentation is the 3d sprites and 2.5d map added into to Augury which clashes with the original token/grid art style of the campaign. There's absolutely nothing wrong with the presentation outside of that. Though if you ask me, the biggest mistake was not just using the soulful sprites and textures from KotC1 for everything. There is nothing wrong with the presentation outside of that.

BG3's encounter balance is non-existent since most of the encounters are extremely easy even on Tactician difficulty. This is even if you don't exploit the gimmicks that made their way into the game from DOS2. The plot itself which is retarded from the beginning is a huge flaw. Invasion of the body snatchers was a shit movie and recreating its plotline in this game was retarded. And then you get the terrible globohomo writing and gay cutscenes that happen everywhere--a major flaw in itself. The game would have been better off without those things, especially without the cutscenes.

The attempt at photorealistic 3d graphics is always a mistake. It tends to be nothing but a waste of disc space and is always ugly.

Here we go again, nitpicking everything about BG3 but pretending that KotC2 is fine and doesn't need a plot. You start in a small village, then you explore the sewers, which already doesn't make sense for such a medieval village. In these sewers, there are armies of goblins with magic weapons battling, ancient dragons beneath ruins with mummies, and extraplanar levels.

The village is the only problem. The village was added later and really should never have been added. The game was originally intended to start in the dungeon and then you get teleported to a different dungeon (there are no connections between the original dungeon and the one you get ported to).

Eventually, you end up teleported to some castle without even knowing why for the final battle. You don't need a big plot for a dungeon crawler, I agree, but there's still a minimum of coherence to maintain.

You're getting the teleportation segments wrong. You're not teleported to a castle. You go to the castle after leaving the second dungeon because you know that's where the villain is.

As for the battle balance, KotC2 was unplayable at release and still turns down 99% of people. The fact is, no one plays it anymore.

This statement is a falsehood. KotC2 was playable during the entirety of the kickstarter and even more playable at release.

Regarding BG3 combat, it's not as unbalanced as you make it out to be; it may require some tweaking. If you follow the good path and do both the underworld and high mountains, you gain too much XP early, as I noticed in my second playthrough. This is easily fixable and doesn't make the game unenjoyable, you still stay in same encounter level tiers. Tactician mode, if you are reasonable with rests and don't save scum, is fine enough.

Even if you skip areas the encounters are extremely easy. The only semblence of difficulty is the high amount of damage you have to do compared to previous chapters to put the enemy's down. You can even exploit gimmicks to turn the near-zero difficulty into zero difficult just like Larian intended.

As for photorealistic 3D graphics being a mistake, it's only a problem when you don't have the budget, and mostly for indies.

Photorealistic graphics are a mistake even for AAA developers. The type that Larian went for is just as ugly as it was when it was in Witcher 3.

I can't help but picture a Codexer's kid spitting out caviar handed to him by Sven on a silver spoon.

Sven is giving you cricket meal.

But why complain when you have actor performances with photorealistic graphics and superb 3D dioramas

I want a video game. I do not want an interactive movie. The actor performances are all boring and serve as nothing but wasted disk space and a pointless time sink that interrupts gameplay.

 

[MerchantKing]

And then you get the terrible globohomo writing and gay cutscenes that happen everywhere--a major flaw in itself.

Cool it with the anti-semitic remarks.

Dumb goy.

BG3's encounter balance is non-existent since most of the encounters are extremely easy even on Tactician difficulty.

I think there are quite a few encounters that can fuck you up if you do not position yourself in advance (eg. the Shar Temple diablo ambush).

Why aren't you using an invisible character in stealth to scout ahead? You'd think that would be standard fare in a game like this especially since you could do this in DOS2, Wasteland 3, the original BG games, etc.

Though in the end, it is mostly about how many healing potions you want to waste on a fight - because you will win it anyway.

Just like a bioware game.

 

[Rhobar121]

Some old people on Codex would prefer to play with graphics straight from 1980. Maybe then they wouldn't feel like old geezers. Fortunately, there are so few of them that no one cares.

 

[Lady Error]

Why aren't you using an invisible character in stealth to scout ahead? You'd think that would be standard fare in a game like this especially since you could do this in DOS2, Wasteland 3, the original BG games, etc.

If the game is too easy for you, don't scout ahead. Scouting is for weak goys.

 

[MerchantKing]

Why aren't you using an invisible character in stealth to scout ahead? You'd think that would be standard fare in a game like this especially since you could do this in DOS2, Wasteland 3, the original BG games, etc.

If the game is too easy for you, don't scout ahead. Scouting is for weak goys.

Such an attitude is a reason you goyim are inferior to G-d's chosen people.

 

[Jaedar]

As for my comment, my meaning was what you mentioned about how fast characters overlook it when they catch you in horrific acts, like murdering the bard lady.

So far durge has not forced me into a single horrific act. It's all been optional:
1) commit horrific murder
2) don't commit horrific murder
3-8) don't even acknowledge the conundrum and play the game 'normally'
Of course doing it means free xp, so it is good to indulge.

 

[Rhobar121]

As for my comment, my meaning was what you mentioned about how fast characters overlook it when they catch you in horrific acts, like murdering the bard lady.

So far durge has not forced me into a single horrific act. It's all been optional:
1) commit horrific murder
2) don't commit horrific murder
3-8) don't even acknowledge the conundrum and play the game 'normally'
Of course doing it means free xp, so it is good to indulge.

You really have one inevitable (quite brutal) murder that you can't avoid.

 

[Grunker]

As for my comment, my meaning was what you mentioned about how fast characters overlook it when they catch you in horrific acts, like murdering the bard lady.

So far durge has not forced me into a single horrific act. It's all been optional:
1) commit horrific murder
2) don't commit horrific murder
3-8) don't even acknowledge the conundrum and play the game 'normally'
Of course doing it means free xp, so it is good to indulge.

You really have one inevitable (quite brutal) murder that you can't avoid.

You can avoid that one as well, but you have to sort of cheat.

 

[dukeofwoodberry]

Possibly yes, but I hate the double standard around here. If you criticize those games the same way BG3 is criticized here, they are all terrible, utter shit. And the Codex review will be yet another joke, further undermining the credibility of the site, if that's even possible.

Codex being contrarian is nothing new, don't take it to heart so much. If everybody else loves a thing, codex will more than likely hate it.

This is especially true if it's from a big studio, seeing how Larian is "kind of AAA" now, whatever that means.

People arguing in good faith here (lol) generally dislike BG3 because they see it committing the same mistakes that BioWare and its ilk have years ago, as well as some serious flaws with the writing, worldbuilding, C&C, etc.

Do games like KotC2 and Caves of Lore have the same issues? Undoubtedly, and plenty of other ones to boot. But those games do not have budgets in the millions and they're passion projects, so they get a certain pass.

KotC2's flaw is its engine and its limitations. It's not so much of a problem if you're just looking for a tactical dungeon crawler. But that's what it was designed for. I've never played CoL though.

It's exactly what I am speaking about. Flaws are a lot more numerous than this, much, much more so, from the plot and writing to the encounter balance and presentation. And the budget has nothing to do with that. While BG3 has some flaws, they are very minor and nitpicking in comparison.

KotC2 doesn't need a complex plot or anything like that. The Augury of Chaos campaign is a structured combat dungeon and there is no illusion from anyone here that you play it for any reason other than its superb combat. It does exactly what it's designed for. It's encounter balance is excellent since most encounters are difficult while being reasonable enough for a player who is able to figure out a strategy for the encounter. The AI is excellent, still the best AI in any tactical game to this day. Your characters going through the dungeon is the plot and there doesn't have to be anything else.

The writing is passable in KotC2 and there's little enough of it that you can ignore it.

The problem with KotC2's presentation is the 3d sprites and 2.5d map added into to Augury which clashes with the original token/grid art style of the campaign. There's absolutely nothing wrong with the presentation outside of that. Though if you ask me, the biggest mistake was not just using the soulful sprites and textures from KotC1 for everything. There is nothing wrong with the presentation outside of that.

BG3's encounter balance is non-existent since most of the encounters are extremely easy even on Tactician difficulty. This is even if you don't exploit the gimmicks that made their way into the game from DOS2. The plot itself which is retarded from the beginning is a huge flaw. Invasion of the body snatchers was a shit movie and recreating its plotline in this game was retarded. And then you get the terrible globohomo writing and gay cutscenes that happen everywhere--a major flaw in itself. The game would have been better off without those things, especially without the cutscenes.

The attempt at photorealistic 3d graphics is always a mistake. It tends to be nothing but a waste of disc space and is always ugly.

Some of the evil encounters can be challenging. For example on assault moonrise towers you have to go through the towers then battle kethric with limited spell slots and they also have the drider (and you have no help.) If I didn't have a long rest potion I would have had a whale of a time. I still had to pop a +initiative potion to out speed the drider and hold him then kill him because he pops sanctuary and then does too damage otherwise.

The necromancer boss was also pretty challenging with no assistance. On a good playthrough the game is very easy, try evil for a challenge

 

[MerchantKing]

Possibly yes, but I hate the double standard around here. If you criticize those games the same way BG3 is criticized here, they are all terrible, utter shit. And the Codex review will be yet another joke, further undermining the credibility of the site, if that's even possible.

Codex being contrarian is nothing new, don't take it to heart so much. If everybody else loves a thing, codex will more than likely hate it.

This is especially true if it's from a big studio, seeing how Larian is "kind of AAA" now, whatever that means.

People arguing in good faith here (lol) generally dislike BG3 because they see it committing the same mistakes that BioWare and its ilk have years ago, as well as some serious flaws with the writing, worldbuilding, C&C, etc.

Do games like KotC2 and Caves of Lore have the same issues? Undoubtedly, and plenty of other ones to boot. But those games do not have budgets in the millions and they're passion projects, so they get a certain pass.

KotC2's flaw is its engine and its limitations. It's not so much of a problem if you're just looking for a tactical dungeon crawler. But that's what it was designed for. I've never played CoL though.

It's exactly what I am speaking about. Flaws are a lot more numerous than this, much, much more so, from the plot and writing to the encounter balance and presentation. And the budget has nothing to do with that. While BG3 has some flaws, they are very minor and nitpicking in comparison.

KotC2 doesn't need a complex plot or anything like that. The Augury of Chaos campaign is a structured combat dungeon and there is no illusion from anyone here that you play it for any reason other than its superb combat. It does exactly what it's designed for. It's encounter balance is excellent since most encounters are difficult while being reasonable enough for a player who is able to figure out a strategy for the encounter. The AI is excellent, still the best AI in any tactical game to this day. Your characters going through the dungeon is the plot and there doesn't have to be anything else.

The writing is passable in KotC2 and there's little enough of it that you can ignore it.

The problem with KotC2's presentation is the 3d sprites and 2.5d map added into to Augury which clashes with the original token/grid art style of the campaign. There's absolutely nothing wrong with the presentation outside of that. Though if you ask me, the biggest mistake was not just using the soulful sprites and textures from KotC1 for everything. There is nothing wrong with the presentation outside of that.

BG3's encounter balance is non-existent since most of the encounters are extremely easy even on Tactician difficulty. This is even if you don't exploit the gimmicks that made their way into the game from DOS2. The plot itself which is retarded from the beginning is a huge flaw. Invasion of the body snatchers was a shit movie and recreating its plotline in this game was retarded. And then you get the terrible globohomo writing and gay cutscenes that happen everywhere--a major flaw in itself. The game would have been better off without those things, especially without the cutscenes.

The attempt at photorealistic 3d graphics is always a mistake. It tends to be nothing but a waste of disc space and is always ugly.

Some of the evil encounters can be challenging. For example on assault moonrise towers you have to go through the towers then battle kethric with limited spell slots and they also have the drider (and you have no help.) If I didn't have a long rest potion I would have had a whale of a time. I still had to pop a +initiative potion to out speed the drider and hold him then kill him because he pops sanctuary and then does too damage otherwise.

The necromancer boss was also pretty challenging with no assistance. On a good playthrough the game is very easy, try evil for a challenge

I'm not going to play this shitty game again.

 

[dukeofwoodberry]

Fair enough but the combat is actually pretty good when challenged

 

[Sarathiour]

As for my comment, my meaning was what you mentioned about how fast characters overlook it when they catch you in horrific acts, like murdering the bard lady.

So far durge has not forced me into a single horrific act. It's all been optional:
1) commit horrific murder
2) don't commit horrific murder
3-8) don't even acknowledge the conundrum and play the game 'normally'
Of course doing it means free xp, so it is good to indulge.

You really have one inevitable (quite brutal) murder that you can't avoid.

You call it murder, I call it a civic duty.

 

[Lagole Gon]

As for my comment, my meaning was what you mentioned about how fast characters overlook it when they catch you in horrific acts, like murdering the bard lady.

So far durge has not forced me into a single horrific act. It's all been optional:
1) commit horrific murder
2) don't commit horrific murder
3-8) don't even acknowledge the conundrum and play the game 'normally'
Of course doing it means free xp, so it is good to indulge.

You really have one inevitable (quite brutal) murder that you can't avoid.

You call it murder, I call it a civic duty.

> Be me. Break her lute. She calls me an asshole and just pulls another one out of her ass.
> She visits camp. Durge takes over. I stab her so many times she looks more like modern art than a humanoid. She drops two lutes.
> Destroy the druid grove. During the after raid celebrations, a goblin offers me a looted gift. You guessed it - it's her lute.

 

[MerchantKing]

As for my comment, my meaning was what you mentioned about how fast characters overlook it when they catch you in horrific acts, like murdering the bard lady.

So far durge has not forced me into a single horrific act. It's all been optional:
1) commit horrific murder
2) don't commit horrific murder
3-8) don't even acknowledge the conundrum and play the game 'normally'
Of course doing it means free xp, so it is good to indulge.

You really have one inevitable (quite brutal) murder that you can't avoid.

You call it murder, I call it a civic duty.

> Be me. Break her lute. She calls me an asshole and just pulls another one out of her ass.
> She visits camp. Durge takes over. I stab her so many times she looks more like modern art than a humanoid. She drops two lutes.
> Destroy the druid grove. During the after raid celebrations, a goblin offers me a looted gift. You guessed it - it's her lute.

Can you exploit this to break the economy?

 

[Lagole Gon]

Can you exploit this to break the economy?

No. It's not worth a lot.
It's also the only thing she gives you for saving her ass for the whole game.
But you get only one, so killing her for more is optimal.

 

[MerchantKing]

Can you exploit this to break the economy?

No. It's not worth a lot.
It's also the only thing she gives you for saving her ass for the whole game.
But you get only one, so killing her for more is optimal.

I mean, can you get not just four, but four million lutes?

 

[Hammer Of The Heretics]

Phat lute.

 

[abija]

Some of the evil encounters can be challenging. For example on assault moonrise towers you have to go through the towers then battle kethric with limited spell slots and they also have the drider (and you have no help.) If I didn't have a long rest potion I would have had a whale of a time. I still had to pop a +initiative potion to out speed the drider and hold him then kill him because he pops sanctuary and then does too damage otherwise.

I don't remember having to do that in a durge playthrough. Iirc I got in moonrise pretending I'm one of them, explored around, fucked up a dialogue and the half orc attacked me. Cleared the tower out of spite without going to Thorm. Then I eradicated the creche, saved nightsong, came back and fought him.

 

[Lagole Gon]

Some of the evil encounters can be challenging. For example on assault moonrise towers you have to go through the towers then battle kethric with limited spell slots and they also have the drider (and you have no help.) If I didn't have a long rest potion I would have had a whale of a time. I still had to pop a +initiative potion to out speed the drider and hold him then kill him because he pops sanctuary and then does too damage otherwise.

I don't remember having to do that in a durge playthrough. Iirc I got in moonrise pretending I'm one of them, explored around, fucked up a dialogue and the half orc attacked me. Cleared the tower out of spite without going to Thorm. Then I eradicated the creche, saved nightsong, came back and fought him.

Raiding the grove points you towards going through mountains and asking Drider guy for help. That's the advice Minthara gives you.

 

[Tyranicon]

The gift that keeps on giving, whether you want it or not

 

[MerchantKing]

View attachment 41535

The gift that keeps on giving, whether you want it or not

Gale has AIDS now too? How progressive.

 

[dukeofwoodberry]

Some of the evil encounters can be challenging. For example on assault moonrise towers you have to go through the towers then battle kethric with limited spell slots and they also have the drider (and you have no help.) If I didn't have a long rest potion I would have had a whale of a time. I still had to pop a +initiative potion to out speed the drider and hold him then kill him because he pops sanctuary and then does too damage otherwise.

I don't remember having to do that in a durge playthrough. Iirc I got in moonrise pretending I'm one of them, explored around, fucked up a dialogue and the half orc attacked me. Cleared the tower out of spite without going to Thorm. Then I eradicated the creche, saved nightsong, came back and fought him.

I didn't say durge, I said an evil playthrough making all the evil choices. That means siding withe drider over harpers, killing nightsong and cozying up to the cult in moonrise until you have to take them all out. Under a true evil playthrough encounters are way, way harder in act 2.

Of course if you thin out moonrise before you have to l, it's going to be a lot easier. But if you have to take out all of moonrise plus ketheric with the drider (and no help on your side,) that is a real challenge. I had to use a long rest potion which gave my bard his short rest song. And even with that I still had to get a bit lucky to lock down the drider because his damage is crazy.

This level of difficulty makes you strategize. I heed to absolutely go first or drider will kill a party member. So I pop an initiative potion then focus him with 3 characters. I use my spell caster to crown of madness their mage and she fireballs their minions. It was actually tough