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Baldur's Gate Baldur's Gate 3 RELEASE THREAD

Zed Duke of Banville

Dungeon Master
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Joined
Oct 3, 2015
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12,634
Is it explained in lore why Baldur Gate Town was full of humans in 1 but in 3 it is very diverse, I mean was it in the books or something?
The Forgotten Realms is, and has always been, a Renaissance Festival LARPing version of contemporary America/Canada, from the perspective of people living in one of the large urban conglomerations (Ed Greenwood's Toronto, WotC's Seattle). Although the campaign setting was originally conceived in the 1970s, and TSR began publishing Forgotten Realms products in 1987, Baldur's Gate 3 is merely reflecting real-world demographic change as of 2023. Note also that TSR's version of the Forgotten Realms was a considerable improvement on Ed Greenwood's version, with much greater depth and breadth, and some degree of historical verisimilitude, traits which have receded since TSR's demise.
 

Non-Edgy Gamer

Grand Dragon
Patron
Glory to Ukraine
Joined
Nov 6, 2020
Messages
17,656
Strap Yourselves In
The Forgotten Realms is, and has always been, a Renaissance Festival LARPing version of contemporary America/Canada, from the perspective of people living in one of the large urban conglomerations (Ed Greenwood's Toronto, WotC's Seattle). Although the campaign setting was originally conceived in the 1970s, and TSR began publishing Forgotten Realms products in 1987, Baldur's Gate 3 is merely reflecting real-world demographic change as of 2023.
This has been gone over a lot, but I don't think making whites rarer than niggers and demons was ever anyone's vision before the year 2005 or so.

The 1970s idea of diversity, whether in Seattle or Canada, was always about the same ratio you see on Star Trek:

1hPdlar.png


One black, one Asian and the rest white or white-appearing Jews.

Modern demographics have changed, but white male humans are not a minority like they are in BG3.

What has changed is the idea of Diversity, which now means as few whites (especially white males) as possible. It used to be about diversity of culture, variety as the spice of life, and often a criticism of colonialism and racism. But now, it's an explicitly anti-white ideology, and BG3 reflects that in its design choices.

You can't have the default character be a white male even though your in-game stats show that's the most popular character. That's not Diverse! Any degree of racial homogeneity in any location? Not for white humans. Only for other races, or the Tieflings.

On the plus side, Forgotten Realms is no longer a Renaissance fair. It's now completely different from anything remotely historic. It's an alien world with only the barest traces of reality or tradition, and usually those traces are just there to mock - like the gnome couple in the Underdark, whose main purpose is to show the male as an abusive asshole whom the stronk female has conquered and put on a leash.

If TSR's Forgotten Realms was a Renaissance fair, Wizard's Forgotten Realms is a Pride parade.
 

ropetight

Savant
Joined
Dec 9, 2018
Messages
1,426
Location
Lower Wolffuckery
You are all alone, without the party, in the random location of the BG3.
And a bit of a faggot.
Who do you prefer to meet - Astarion or the bear?
 
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Non-Edgy Gamer

Grand Dragon
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Strap Yourselves In
All the companions in the game are bisexual, including Astarion. He still talks like a flaming homo though.

Astarion is probably the best written companion, which isn't saying much. Everything he says early on is lies upon lies. He'll lie slightly less if the player knows he's a vampire, but he'll still lie - e.g., saying the Gur is there to bring him back to his master. And figuring out just how little you can trust him is kind of amusing.

That sort of mystery to a character is a lot better than Shadowheart's or Durge's amnesia, which you know is locked behind some plot point. Or Gale's flat refusal to tell you anything until he either decides to creep on you, or everything gets revealed by Elminster anyway. Or Wyll's stupid hero larp when you know he's a warlock.
 

Hydro

Educated
Joined
Mar 30, 2024
Messages
342
All the companions in the game are bisexual, including Astarion. He still talks like a flaming homo though.

Astarion is probably the best written companion, which isn't saying much. Everything he says early on is lies upon lies. He'll lie slightly less if the player knows he's a vampire, but he'll still lie - e.g., saying the Gur is there to bring him back to his master. And figuring out just how little you can trust him is kind of amusing.

That sort of mystery to a character is a lot better than Shadowheart's or Durge's amnesia, which you know is locked behind some plot point. Or Gale's flat refusal to tell you anything until he either decides to creep on you, or everything gets revealed by Elminster anyway. Or Wyll's stupid hero larp when you know he's a warlock.
Handing Astarion to Gurs was disappointing though. The quest line just ends with no explanations whatsoever. It’s only in the Chapter 3 when you stumble upon Gurs’ camp with everybody dead, but again no further explanation is given (not that you have any motivation to investigate more at that point to start with). As I said before, this game is designed solely for good goys who follow the canon narrative.
 

Bulo

Scholar
Joined
Mar 28, 2018
Messages
315
Had to pack it in at the beginning of Act 3. Act 2 had some cool villains, but almost every character in this game is boring or insufferable to the Nth degree (with a few notable exceptions). I think the straw that broke the camel's back was the dragonkin vendor who just wouldn't shut the fuck up. DnD is so pussified it's embarrassing. Even the designs reflect this. The dragonkin look like some twitter fag's fursona
 

jackofshadows

Magister
Joined
Oct 21, 2019
Messages
4,745
I found her hilarious. One of the most memorable NPCs. At some point I accused her at arselicking (figuratively speaking) and she gave me some cool response in return. It also helped that by speaking to the blacksmith I sentenced him so to say (Orin) so it has added a bit of drama to her the whole adore fan shick.
 

Old Hans

Arcane
Joined
Oct 10, 2011
Messages
1,882
That sort of mystery to a character is a lot better than Shadowheart's or Durge's amnesia, which you know is locked behind some plot point. Or Gale's flat refusal to tell you anything until he either decides to creep on you, or everything gets revealed by Elminster anyway. Or Wyll's stupid hero larp when you know he's a warlock.
Wyll's original storyline had so much more potential. He was a showboating fraud who made a pact with Mizora all because a goblin took his eye. Thats why his early intro during the goblin fight is so out of place. Thats old showboating wyll
 
Vatnik Wumao
Joined
Oct 2, 2018
Messages
18,720
Location
大同
That sort of mystery to a character is a lot better than Shadowheart's or Durge's amnesia, which you know is locked behind some plot point. Or Gale's flat refusal to tell you anything until he either decides to creep on you, or everything gets revealed by Elminster anyway. Or Wyll's stupid hero larp when you know he's a warlock.
Wyll's original storyline had so much more potential. He was a showboating fraud who made a pact with Mizora all because a goblin took his eye. Thats why his early intro during the goblin fight is so out of place. Thats old showboating wyll
Pretty much. If it wasn't for the shitty rewrite, he probably would've been my favorite character both as a companion and as a PC origin.
 

MjKorz

Educated
Joined
Jul 11, 2022
Messages
530
Huh, seems like I'm one of the few rare people who liked Wyll: he seemed like a genuine, down to earth victim of circumstances in a party of special snowflake scumbags.
 

processdaemon

Scholar
Patron
Joined
Jul 14, 2023
Messages
572
I can see why people who prefer straightforwardly good characters would like Wyll but I felt like his problem was that they leaned into the victim of circumstances thing so much that he seems to lack agency. I would have preferred his backstory if they'd had him actively seek out some kind of deal because he'd figured out something was wrong and nobody would believe him rather than having her luring him out and similarly having him actively make the choice to seek out Mizora again to make a deal to save his father would have had more impact than her shoving the offer in his face at the first opportunity.

I agree that he's one of the few companions who seems like a genuinely nice guy, but it would have been more interesting to watch him come to the conclusion that he might have to do some shady stuff for the greater good himself rather than having Mizora club him over the head with the realization at every turn. I think they just got scared of adding any nuance to his character because of the 'angry black man' allegations during EA, which didn't seem fair to me at the time anyway.
 

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