Baldur's Gate & Baldur's Gate II Mod Thread

[ghostdog]

No mod is perfect, scs included. If you use only the core part and disable everything else you'll probably avoid some op frustrating stuff, but still some things may be annoying.

Nevertheless, if, in a consequent playthrough you get mad at the stupid enemy ai you face, while you breeze through the game and find the vanilla hard mode retarded (just bloated xp and raised damage, and still piss-easy since it's the same brainless ai) then the only alternative is SCS.

 

[Chippy]

I tried a SCS game for the powergaming experience. I loaded some kit mods, and tried a few other story mods. It was predictable: overpowered items and too many resources from the mods (I think I had something like 800+ health potions at one point), and SCS raised the difficulty level of the game. Eventually it became rock, paper, scissors.

But I prefer the vanilla experience. Everyone wants to be a boss playing hard games, but I'm not playing hard strategy games. The BG experience isn't about that for me. So suppose I'm more of a roleplayer than powergamer.

 

[hell bovine]

It's not about playing hard games. But if a game focuses on combat, then it better be good. Outside of combat & exploration (which is also combat-focused), the BG series doesn't have that much to offer. There is little character reactivity, only a heroic path with evil options tacked on and a linear main story progression.

The other issue is that I find enemy stupidity immersion breaking when the game tells me they are supposed to be highly intelligent. Vanilla mind flayers are on the same level as a mustard jelly.

 

[chuft]

I guess I should feel fortunate that I can enjoy the game as is and don’t see all these problems you see. I don’t tend to notice CGI in movies either, but I know some people for whom it sticks out and looks fake and bothers them. I feel sorry for them.

 

[octavius]

I guess I should feel fortunate that I can enjoy the game as is and don’t see all these problems you see. I don’t tend to notice CGI in movies either, but I know some people for whom it sticks out and looks fake and bothers them. I feel sorry for them.

You're like an anti DraQ .

 

[Jason Liang]

SCS or no SCS, BG1 is just a much shittier rpg than BG2. It's just like comparing Star Control 1 and Star Control 2.

 

[Lacrymas]

BG1 is better in almost everything with the exception of exotic locations.

 

[Jason Liang]

BG1 is better in almost everything with the exception of exotic locations.

Ok. I'll bite. For example?

 

[Mr. Magniloquent]

I tried a SCS game for the powergaming experience. I loaded some kit mods, and tried a few other story mods. It was predictable: overpowered items and too many resources from the mods (I think I had something like 800+ health potions at one point), and SCS raised the difficulty level of the game. Eventually it became rock, paper, scissors.

But I prefer the vanilla experience. Everyone wants to be a boss playing hard games, but I'm not playing hard strategy games. The BG experience isn't about that for me. So suppose I'm more of a roleplayer than powergamer.

SCS doesn't change items. The horrendous TACTICS mod does. Item Revisions, a very good mod, actually tones down nearly all of the OP weapons and very slightly changes several others so they are usable, rather than vendor trash. The only story mods were using are Ascension and Wheel of Prophecy, though I think Wheel of Prophecy is depreciated. I think Ascension took on what few things plot-wise it offered/corrected.

 

[Lacrymas]

Ok. I'll bite. For example?

BG1 is more coherent and interconnected in terms of locations, it has more variety in its wilderness areas, you aren't assaulted every 10 seconds by NPCs with random quests or banter, low level D&D is widely considered to be better than the higher level one, the mage duels which people like so much make an appearance in BG1 too, BG1 feels more like an adventure than a scripted corridor, the SoA story is irrelevant to the actual narrative of the Bhaalspawn, even SoA's prologue is worse than Candlekeep, BG1 has one of the best dungeons ever made - Durlag's Tower, Watcher's Keep can't hold a candle to it, BG2 adds a lot of unnecessary and overpowered kits, writing took a huge nosedive because they wanted to be epic and "complex", etc. etc. I can go on forever.

Only agents of decline prefer BG2 over 1. BG2 is not a bad game, but it's inferior to its predecessor in almost every possible way.

 

[Daidre]

SCS does have several item related components - to replace generic +1 items with "Fine" ones, remove enchanted ammo or to move good items like Robe of Vecna into ToB. But it does not change item properties or add any noticeable new items, with exception of some scrolls for new/rare spells.

 

[octavius]

SCS also adds potions to some classes of enemies.
But all of it is optional, IIRC.

 

[Chippy]

I tried a SCS game for the powergaming experience. I loaded some kit mods, and tried a few other story mods. It was predictable: overpowered items and too many resources from the mods (I think I had something like 800+ health potions at one point), and SCS raised the difficulty level of the game. Eventually it became rock, paper, scissors.

But I prefer the vanilla experience. Everyone wants to be a boss playing hard games, but I'm not playing hard strategy games. The BG experience isn't about that for me. So suppose I'm more of a roleplayer than powergamer.

SCS doesn't change items. The horrendous TACTICS mod does. Item Revisions, a very good mod, actually tones down nearly all of the OP weapons and very slightly changes several others so they are usable, rather than vendor trash. The only story mods were using are Ascension and Wheel of Prophecy, though I think Wheel of Prophecy is depreciated. I think Ascension took on what few things plot-wise it offered/corrected.

Yeah I should have written that better; it was the story mods combined with SCS.

 

[Jason Liang]

Ok. I'll bite. For example?

BG1 is more coherent and interconnected in terms of locations,

You mean random pointless wilderness maps, like Pillars of Eternity?

it has more variety in its wilderness areas,

No idea what this refers to. "Variety" is one of the last adjectives I'd use to describe BG1's wilderness areas.

you aren't assaulted every 10 seconds by NPCs with random quests or banter,

If you do not want banter, EE let's you generate all 6 party members. Pretty sure there are mods that do this as well.

low level D&D is widely considered to be better than the higher level one,

So if you buy this argument, every low level DnD scenario is superior to BG2? Shadow Sorcerer? NWN?

the mage duels which people like so much make an appearance in BG1 too,

Part of what makes BG2 awesome is the high level spells that your characters and enemies can cast.

BG1 feels more like an adventure than a scripted corridor,

Not sure how BG2 feels scripted or does not feel like an adventure when its remembered for enormous side quests including the Shadow and Red Dragons.

the SoA story is irrelevant to the actual narrative of the Bhaalspawn,

... this is a weird criticism of the SoA plot, but I get your point. Still I would counter argue that even if you do see all of SoA as a random adventure that doesn't advance the Bhaalspawn saga much, it is fully in the flavor of FR literature like Drizzt (Icewindale Saga) or Avatar trilogy, or even older pulp fantasy like Elric or Conan, which BG2 is trying to capture.

even SoA's prologue is worse than Candlekeep,

This is just blasphemy. Chateau Irenicus is one of the best examples of a starting area that teaches you how to play the game, but isn't forced or too popamole. You get right into the action.

BG1 has one of the best dungeons ever made - Durlag's Tower, Watcher's Keep can't hold a candle to it,

Super subjective. And you want to compare dungeons, Spellhold is a great dungeon. But the real point is BG2 maps feel like real places, not forced dungeons like Durlag's Tower.

BG2 adds a lot of unnecessary and overpowered kits, writing took a huge nosedive because they wanted to be epic and "complex", etc. etc. I can go on forever.

Only agents of decline prefer BG2 over 1. BG2 is not a bad game, but it's inferior to its predecessor in almost every possible way.

Kits add to replayability, and some kits are very distinctive, for example Valygar's Stalker kit or Yoshimo's Trapper kit. But complaining about kits is tedious nitpicking.

 

[Lacrymas]

You've got it entirely the opposite way, lol. The wilderness maps make for a huge, interconnected region which has an actual feel of travel, not the teleportation-like feel in BG2. The variety is mountains, slopes, lakes and rivers, BG2 wilderness maps are flat.

Citing EE as a band-aid for fundamental problems is decline. It's not only banter, you are assaulted with quests as well. Combined, they just prevent you from playing the game with constant interruptions.

Yes, low level D&D is better than high level, even if the encounters you cite were objectively better than anything in BG1 that's still the case and you've still got the entire rest of the game to worry about.

You've got plenty of spells in BG1, adding more overpowered explosions and more ways to play rock, paper, scissors is redundant and causes the ridiculousness that is high level D&D. Even then, the named mages in BG1 have scripts that ensure you can't just backstab them, like the mage in Cloakwood who teleports around and is scripted to fire off buffs at the start. BG2 mages generally sit around and wait to be slaughtered by the rogues.

Only Athkatla is dense with side quests (which are delivered very badly) and non-linear exploration, the entire rest of the game including ToB is on rails, but guess what, the whole of BG1 preserves its non-linearity, including BG the city.

The prologue is actually one of the worst starting areas ever and it is indeed forced and unskippable, it's overlong, it strips you of equipment (incl. tomes you might have used on party members who return), forces a canon party and is generally a massive asspull that begins the irrelevant story of SoA. I don't know how you can argue anything else.

There is nothing forced about Durlag's Tower and it has generally been considered as a crowning achievement in video game dungeons, so it's not super subjective.

The problem with kits is that most of them are either shit and unusable or overpowered garbage like the Inquisitor. Their implementation is also lacking and they overshadow the base classes.

 

[Jimmious]

You have some good points but there are other arguments that make BG2>BG1 for me:

- Plot in BG1 is , well... childish - BG2 is better (not perfect of course)
- Overall quality of content in BG2 is much better - from UI improvements, to graphics etc etc
- The are various excellent combat encounters in BG2, really well thought out. BG1 has less of them
- Companions are much more fleshed out in BG2

All in all for me, BG2 felt like an improved BG back in the day and still does.
First time I hear someone saying that BG1 is better. It always felt much "simpler" to me in comparison

 

[Daidre]

Art and music is reason enough for me to put BG2 over BG1 for me. BG2 has some most beautiful isometric locations I have seen, and head above similar modern games, like first PoE. Only Deadfire could reasonably compare from what I have played.

Dungeon-wise I prefer original Icewind Dale to other IE-games (I love them all for different reasons).

Anything that is not Durlag's Tower in BG 1 is too simplistic - mostly some bland claustrophobic corridors (Firewine, Nashkel Mines, Ulcaster, Candlekeep, Ice Island). BG2's dungeons is much more sophisticated but often more story-focused than adventure- or combat-focused. Rarely longer than 2-3 maps too.

Icewind Dale gives me full party creation, long beautiful and varied dungeons, good itemization and reasonable level cap that allows low-to-high-enough level play without going into BG2's "stupidly powerful" territory.

 

[octavius]

Vanilla BG2 is better than vanilla BG1. Modded BG1 (mainly SCS and BG1 NPC Project) is better than modded BG2.
AI is pretty brain dead in vanilla BG1, while in BG2 at least the mages buff and stuff.

 

[laclongquan]

Pure SCS dont add OP items. Everything is vanilla.

SCS do add potions to hostiles' inventory. Thief and assassin quaff an invi potion at the start of the battle, for example. Or Wizards quaff a superior healing potion when they are halfway wounded. It's more in the line of widening toolbox for AI than anything. And if you are good to kill them before they can quaff your loot, there's more to pick up, is all~

As for the result of more potions, I am not, NOT, a crazy gamer who complain about the loot being too much. I sold them to shops for good money, because I have the need for money, something about the increased requirement for Chapter2-3.

 

[Jimmious]

As for the result of more potions, I am not, NOT, a crazy gamer who complain about the loot being too much. I sold them to shops for good money, because I have the need for money, something about the increased requirement for Chapter2-3.

I did find funny with how many Fireball Wands I ended up in my recent BG1 run though
I could basically blast my way through anything in the end

 

[laclongquan]

And? It's not as if you dont have enough fireballs throwing around in BG1 vanilla. Something about 4 necklace of missile, potions of explosions etc aside from the usual fire wands.

 

[ghostdog]

Bg1 deserves some praise for the little things that may slip by you the first time you play it. A lot of work has been put into talking with simple commoners; they have a lot of interesting things to say, sometimes you randomly get into full blown conversations with them and their banter changes according to the quests you've done and your reputation, reflecting your actions.

Also I was surprised to find out how much content you can access by using "charm" on NPCs: you can talk to them and gather new info, hints about important events and even get quest solutions.

 

[oldmanpaco]

Item Revisions, a very good mod

Why would you say this? IR is a hot pile of shit whose only goal is to bring 3E muchkinism into my 2E game.

 

[Mr. Magniloquent]

Item Revisions, a very good mod

Why would you say this? IR is a hot pile of shit whose only goal is to bring 3E muchkinism into my 2E game.

IR is an excellent mod. The OP weapons get toned down a touch and the plethora of almost usable items get tweaked to be worth-while. Overall power levels are not disturbed and the balance is excellent. Things which change the armor penalty for casting spells is an optional feature. You can keep that regular old AD&D without issue.

 

[Daidre]

I played with IR through BG 1 and it completely whacked balance there. I had a partial install without shop replacement and armor rebalance.
So many +AC items that everyone in my party ended up with -10 AC and better.

For BG 2, I have tried almost full install and removed it 5 hours into game.

Mod is also abandoned by original creator and EE install requires branched out version with a lot of changes according to a new creator tastes.

I liked Spell Revisions more but it has a huge issues with SCS smarter mages/priests components.

So I'd probably won't install again both of them.