Battle Brothers Pre-Release Thread

[Dr Skeleton]

Well, it's not that 2h weapons are horrible, they can kill fresh enemies with one crit, but in general I'd rather have a 1h+shield, my guys die fast enough as it is. I usually form a battle line or groups of 2-3 melee characters+archer, 2 handers don't fit too well with that because enemies are often smart enough to focus characters with lower defense, and once your guys start dying or bleeding everything goes to hell (as it should be). Maybe once you get enough fatigue to wear a plate armor efficiently? Switching to a shield after attacking with 2h seems pretty cheesy to me.

Two-handed weapons are quite powerful in my experience and they have a lot of usage across the perk trees. I also like to give my cheap hires big orc two-handed weapons just to have fun with. There's something grossly amusing about a dumb daytaler 360-swinging a giant chain around. (I also highly suggest equipping weapons like these just so you know what abilities they have.) Speaking of amusements, I had an occasion where an enemy two-hander swapped positions with his comrade and then slew two of my guys in one swing.

I once got a poacher to make use of my longbow. He was dumb, drunk and had like 30 ranged and 40 melee, so I gave him a spear and worst armor I had and sent him first. Motherfucker killed an orc berserker in his first fight.

 

[sser]

I level up my two-handers fatigue and dress them in the heaviest of armor, yes. I tend to level them up the defensive perk tree, too, except for maybe one or two in offensive. (Billhooks/Archers, which I tend to use on the same characters, I go pure offensive with, though.)

 

[Lucky]

The world is randomly generated and then runs procedurally from there. I can speak from experience that the balance is more delicate than it might appear at first glance. When new stuff gets put in there, I think there will be a much better picture from which balancing changes can be made.

Just for comparison, what elements of the design have uses or penalties that we can't see yet? I mean things like contracts not having any sort of penalty yet.

I won't say too much about the events, but JA2 is a listed inspiration for a reason. Be mindful of who you put in your party

Yeessssss. I'm going to hire all the murderers.

Well, it's not that 2h weapons are horrible, they can kill fresh enemies with one crit, but in general I'd rather have a 1h+shield, my guys die fast enough as it is. I usually form a battle line or groups of 2-3 melee characters+archer, 2 handers don't fit too well with that because enemies are often smart enough to focus characters with lower defense, and once your guys start dying or bleeding everything goes to hell (as it should be). Maybe once you get enough fatigue to wear a plate armor efficiently? Switching to a shield after attacking with 2h seems pretty cheesy to me.

I don’t think you can actually switch to sword and board after attacking (could be wrong? I’ve never tried it). It’s more that you use them to switch back to a defensive role if you find yourself in a poor position at the start of your turn.



I like using two-handers with the offence tree for the sheer power it provides, though they take some setting up since I can’t give them heavy armour or they’ll get fatigued too easily when I set them loose. Positioning is absolutely key here, since he'll die really easily if they start wailing on him. The defence tree version is better if you want them to be able to serve in the frontline, but they're just not destructive enough for my taste. I've also played around with an utility based build. You lose power and defence, but gain the ability to weave in and out of combat, though he can still be surprisingly tough if you sprinkle some defence skills on him + Brawny.

 

[Galdred]

I don’t think you can actually switch to sword and board after attacking (could be wrong? I’ve never tried it). It’s more that you use them to switch back to a defensive role if you find yourself in a poor position at the start of your turn.



I like using two-handers with the offence tree for the sheer power it provides, though they take some setting up since I can’t give them heavy armour or they’ll get fatigued too easily when I set them loose. Positioning is absolutely key here, since he'll die really easily if they start wailing on him. The defence tree version is better if you want them to be able to serve in the frontline, but they're just not destructive enough for my taste. I've also played around with an utility based build. You lose power and defence, but gain the ability to weave in and out of combat, though he can still be surprisingly tough if you sprinkle some defence skills on him + Brawny.

You can actually. I sometimes switch them to shield + 1h after they strike (you need to have at least 2 AP remaining, though, otherwise, turn ends). I usually give them heavy armor and use one guy to inspirational speech them (or get the -33% fatigue on kill, and -20% fatigue per hit on the utility tree).

 

[Lucky]

Really? Good to know! That's is a pretty great option to have. Makes the utility build even more tempting, too.

 

[Eyeball]

I got a question: my archerbros do not seem to have any skills in the starting skill tree tiers for them at all. Is this intentional, or will more archery perks be added later?

 

[Lucky]

Do you mean perks that only work for archery or perks that are useful for archers? Because plenty of the first tier skills are really useful for archers, like Sundering Strikes, Fast Adaptation, Push the Advantage, Dodge, Pathfinder, Bags and Belts + Quick Hands (multiple quivers) and most of the rest help them in indirect ways.

 

[sser]

The world is randomly generated and then runs procedurally from there. I can speak from experience that the balance is more delicate than it might appear at first glance. When new stuff gets put in there, I think there will be a much better picture from which balancing changes can be made.

Just for comparison, what elements of the design have uses or penalties that we can't see yet? I mean things like contracts not having any sort of penalty yet.

The quests are going to be expanded, getting away from the fetch nature they currently have. This means quests where you might start off doing one thing, but end up doing something else entirely. Additionally, players should be making decisions weighed on pros and cons. I'd like to see decisions that backfire in the face of the player. Logically, of course, not just for the sake of being unfair. Also, a lot of quest-types people have been asking for are already in the pipeline.

Things like text popups/adventures will also help flesh out the game, not unlike the sort of popups you see in the Paradox games, or the little mini-texts in FTL, etc. As far as party cohesion... well, it's a medieval world. Currently, your band of bros gets along splendidly. In reality, and just for one very basic example, a nobleman and some poor beggar or servant probably wouldn't get along well at all.

 

[oscar]

I just love fights like these

 

[Lucky]

That bear nick looks pretty apt; beastly damage and no need for recovery. I'm guessing Orcs?
Surviving by the skin of your teeth like that is the best. I'm loving how morale checks aren't an all or nothing deal, so you can have guys breaking and getting cut down, while your core of real hard bros hold the line. A lesser game would always have it be a cascade effect. :D

I’m hoping that a pause and click before going to the post-battle screen is implemented, so that we can look around the battlefield and take in the scenery.Let it all sink in for a moment.

The quests are going to be expanded, getting away from the fetch nature they currently have. This means quests where you might start off doing one thing, but end up doing something else entirely. Additionally, players should be making decisions weighed on pros and cons. I'd like to see decisions that backfire in the face of the player. Logically, of course, not just for the sake of being unfair. Also, a lot of quest-types people have been asking for are already in the pipeline.

Things like text popups/adventures will also help flesh out the game, not unlike the sort of popups you see in the Paradox games, or the little mini-texts in FTL, etc. As far as party cohesion... well, it's a medieval world. Currently, your band of bros gets along splendidly. In reality, and just for one very basic example, a nobleman and some poor beggar or servant probably wouldn't get along well at all.

That's what I was hoping for. Weighing your chances is a big part of the combat, so I’m glad to see it reflected in the quest design.
I’m pretty curious about how those party mechanics are going to get implemented. I remember one developer mentioning that they wanted to implement a tavern so that you could buy your mercs rounds and I could see that as being a way to smooth over party conflicts.

 

[Agesilaus]

Fighting in the forest is the complete opposite of fun. The combination of not being able to see anything and not being able to arrange your own people or select where you start is just painfully bad.

 

[Modron]

Fighting in the forest is the complete opposite of fun. The combination of not being able to see anything and not being able to arrange your own people or select where you start is just painfully bad.

Well in the developers defense, enemies are placed in such a way it would take two turns or more to reach you so you have time to scramble your bros around into formation and they are going to implement a deployment phase in the future so you should really think of forest/swamp battles as a test for future ambushes.

 

[oscar]

That bear nick looks pretty apt; beastly damage and no need for recovery. I'm guessing Orcs?
Surviving by the skin of your teeth like that is the best. I'm loving how morale checks aren't an all or nothing deal, so you can have guys breaking and getting cut down, while your core of real hard bros hold the line. A lesser game would always have it be a cascade effect. :D

A gruelling battle against undead who had lots of archers, Fallen Heroes and skelies with zweihanders and billhokers. Can't remember if it was 'strong' or 'deadly' but was one hell of a fight. I was lucky to walk away with anyone but the Bear actually. Randolf only survived by successfully escaping when his morale failed so your guys breaking isn't always a bad thing (I almost never deliberately order my Bros to retreat as it seems too risky to leave ZOC).

 

[vonAchdorf]

For forest battles, I'd like to have an overlay which indicated walkable tiles, because especially in the beginning, it's not very clear, where you can go an where not and it takes a lot of mouse-overing to find out.

 

[Agesilaus]

Just as I was starting to feel confident on hard difficulty, my men got attacked by 19 werewolves (2x hunting packs attacking at the same time) at night. I won, but I lost a few brothers and my weapons were breaking like crazy. At the end my people were heavily injured and weilding their backup weapons or whatever they found on the floor from dead brothers.

What's the general rule on weapon degradation? Different strength levels for each? Do they break at different rates depending on whether you're striking metal, leather, or flesh and bone?

I'm very thankful that werewolves have poor morale, if you focus fire and drop a couple, you can get groups of them to temporarily retreat.

 

[Trash]

I'm simply loving this game. Some polish, more contracts and some balancing and this one could become big. Some short remarks after playing the game for a bit.

Got the distinct notion that locations to cleanse are created when you take a contract for them. Feels a bit cheap in a game where there is a living world going on. Wouldn't it be much more fun to actually get contracts for places that are a threat to a town/city/castle? Disclaimer: I may be wrong here and these places could just be around anyway.

Same counts for convoy missions btw. I get the feeling that ambushers are spawned by the mission instead of actually being part of the world.

Is it possible for the hostile factions to actually take down a village/watchtower/whatever friendly location? It would make the late game (when the big threat is around) much more exciting and apocalyptic if strong hostile groups can manage to ruin a friendly place. Perhaps make it a mission to cleanse out an area or have you protect a group of colonists/builders to restart them again. Simply have towns low on resources might be a bit boring in the long run.

Anyway, I'm having a ball with this already. Much looking forward to what the future holds!

EDIT: Disregard the former. I can now safely say that the gameworld does not seem to be spawning areas for missions. It seems the other way around. Missions spawn from nearby enemy placement. Awesome stuff.

 

[Dr Skeleton]

Three-way fight with raiders and werewolves. Didn't even know other factions fought each other before this.

 

[Eyeball]

I'm simply loving this game. Some polish, more contracts and some balancing and this one could become big. Some short remarks after playing the game for a bit.

Got the distinct notion that locations to cleanse are created when you take a contract for them. Feels a bit cheap in a game where there is a living world going on. Wouldn't it be much more fun to actually get contracts for places that are a threat to a town/city/castle? Disclaimer: I may be wrong here and these places could just be around anyway.

Same counts for convoy missions btw. I get the feeling that ambushers are spawned by the mission instead of actually being part of the world.

Is it possible for the hostile factions to actually take down a village/watchtower/whatever friendly location? It would make the late game (when the big threat is around) much more exciting and apocalyptic if strong hostile groups can manage to ruin a friendly place. Perhaps make it a mission to cleanse out an area or have you protect a group of colonists/builders to restart them again. Simply have towns low on resources might be a bit boring in the long run.

Anyway, I'm having a ball with this already. Much looking forward to what the future holds!

I can confirm that you can get contracts to raze existing camps. Walked past an orc lair a dozen times before finally getting a quest to raze it.

 

[Galdred]

Some minor UI issues :
I think fatigue should be displayed with life (when toggling the overhead), and it also should start full, and go to zero (and be renamed stamina). It is indeed confusing to have it like that.

Concerning perks, I think quick hands is too strong.
Quick hands should not allow to hit with a 2H sword, then equip a shield :
I think it should either cost fatigue, or only work if it is the first action of the turn, or work once per turn, or be moved up in the tree (as it is the best defensive perk for a 2 hander).
As it is, it is much stronger than a lot of the second tier perks.

The perk giving everyone nearby is a bit too strong. The range makes sense thematically, but it restores too much fatigue IMO (2 archers with this perk can allow everyone else to go all out with fatigue every turn).
Just reducing the fatigue you get should be good.

 

[Agesilaus]

I have also had plenty of caravan protection missions where nobody ambushed me, and I've seem ambushers lurking around when I have no such mission, so I think the locations are generating them and it's not tied to mission taking. In fact, I have been guarding caravans before and seen bandits attack other caravans rather than my own.

 

[Lucky]

A gruelling battle against undead who had lots of archers, Fallen Heroes and skelies with zweihanders and billhokers. Can't remember if it was 'strong' or 'deadly' but was one hell of a fight. I was lucky to walk away with anyone but the Bear actually. Randolf only survived by successfully escaping when his morale failed so your guys breaking isn't always a bad thing (I almost never deliberately order my Bros to retreat as it seems too risky to leave ZOC).

I've yet to actually encounter a decently sized undead horde. Plenty of Orcs and bandits, but the undead seem strangely shy.
Did have a memorable encounter with a whole bunch of vampires at low level.

I'm simply loving this game. Some polish, more contracts and some balancing and this one could become big. Some short remarks after playing the game for a bit.

Got the distinct notion that locations to cleanse are created when you take a contract for them. Feels a bit cheap in a game where there is a living world going on. Wouldn't it be much more fun to actually get contracts for places that are a threat to a town/city/castle? Disclaimer: I may be wrong here and these places could just be around anyway.

Same counts for convoy missions btw. I get the feeling that ambushers are spawned by the mission instead of actually being part of the world.

Is it possible for the hostile factions to actually take down a village/watchtower/whatever friendly location? It would make the late game (when the big threat is around) much more exciting and apocalyptic if strong hostile groups can manage to ruin a friendly place. Perhaps make it a mission to cleanse out an area or have you protect a group of colonists/builders to restart them again. Simply have towns low on resources might be a bit boring in the long run.

Anyway, I'm having a ball with this already. Much looking forward to what the future holds!

To my knowledge, contracts are always put on existing locations. However, they also send out party’s to found new bases. So you can find bases in places where previously there were none.
Ambushers are not actually generated to attack contract caravans, it’s just that there’s a lot of them so the odds of running into them are really high.
Hostile factions can definitely destroy friendly locations. It’s not that easy for early game enemies to pull it off though, so it’s something you’ll mostly see late game if you repeatedly fail to help a city.


Been gathering some info on planned features for the game. Overhype is also going to post a more comprehensive list with their plans for the game somewhere in the coming weeks.

-Injury system. Including permanent effects as a result of battle, such as dismemberment.
-Goblin faction.
-A comprehensive banner editor.
-Reputation system with two different values. How much you get the job done and how humane you are about it.
-Event system. Includes a wide range of different stuff. One of them being the possibility of duels. Another being interaction between your mercs (getting along or not getting along). sser talks about it in this thread.
-Non-combat companions. Like smith, healer and hunter.
-More diverse contracts.
-Legendary artefacts.
-Some reworking of the undead (skeletons might either get buffed to make them an actual threat when encountered, or they get moved closer to starting locations).
-More units for beast faction.
-Iron man mode.
-More art stuff. So more skins to make all the factions more diverse.
-More weapons.
-Weather is getting implemented. Seasons possibly, but more uncertain.
-Other mercenary companies that you can interact with.
-Camping mechanics.
-More enemies that attack your resolve (charm, mind control, etc.).
-Polish stuff, like being able to click on a caravan so that you follow it.
-Systems to keep track of the achievements of your mercenaries. Like how many Orc kills, how many bandit kills, etc.
-Informant for finding locations of legendary artefacts.
-A menu that keeps track of your dead bros.
-Item quality.
-Mod tools.

There's loads more ideas that they've posted about, but many of them are still uncertain whether they'll get implemented. I’m fairly confident about these, though there’s no guarantee until they get put in.

 

[vonAchdorf]

Reputation system with two different values. How much you get the job done and how humane you are about it.

How would that work? All contracts / battles require you to eradicate the enemy.

-A menu that keeps track of your dead bros.

That's something I'm looking forward to.

 

[Lucky]

I haven't seen anything concrete regarding the reputation system beyond that it'll implemented, but I'm assuming that it's related to how you conduct yourself with events and how the contracts will get expanded.

Basically, when sser is talking about this:

The quests are going to be expanded, getting away from the fetch nature they currently have. This means quests where you might start off doing one thing, but end up doing something else entirely. Additionally, players should be making decisions weighed on pros and cons. I'd like to see decisions that backfire in the face of the player. Logically, of course, not just for the sake of being unfair. Also, a lot of quest-types people have been asking for are already in the pipeline.

Things like text popups/adventures will also help flesh out the game, not unlike the sort of popups you see in the Paradox games, or the little mini-texts in FTL, etc. As far as party cohesion... well, it's a medieval world. Currently, your band of bros gets along splendidly. In reality, and just for one very basic example, a nobleman and some poor beggar or servant probably wouldn't get along well at all.

I'm going ahead and thinking that the different reputation values will probably also play a role in this pros and cons system.

 

[Agesilaus]

I'm finding the late game pretty challenging on hard. It's hard to replace high-level brothers after a big battle, and good armour is difficult to find.

I think the undead are the easiest early-game encounter (unarmed zombies and ghouls), and the most difficult late-game encounter. In terms of late game undead, I just did another massive battle and lost 8 out of 12 high-level brothers. The high level skeletons are brutal; the fallen heroes take a while to kill because of their shields and armour, and the skeleton guards carry two handed weapons. There's something especially horrible about facing 10+ double-handed swords and axes, intermingled with fallen heroes, backed up by archers and necromancers.

Even worse, any dead brothers join the enemy ranks, and archery is pointless. It causes you to equip everyone in the heaviest armour imagineable, causing huge fatigue problems that have to be managed by special abilities and quick elimination of the necromancer so that you don't get overwhelmed. I am also yet to find a vampire, although that's probably a good thing because they're a huge pain in the arse. At least I'd have something to use my arrows on, though.

Also, does everyone agree that the 2 handed sword is better than the 2 handed axe? The ability to hit two in a line, and 3 in front, is far more practical than the wild swing that hits everybody near you. The sword can also hack through shields and does a stun effect, so why would you take an axe?

 

[oscar]

Yup high-end undead parties are nastier than orcs. At least with orcs you usually have numerical parity or superiority and they're fairly safe to fight if you use a conservative strategy of archery, bill-hooks and using your numerical advantage. If it's a forest or swamp the orcs also often seem to attack piecemeal allowing you to isolate individual ones in relative safety.

Late-game undead force you to take the offensive due to their superior firepower, lack of fatigue, resistance to archery and necromancers. Ironically they probably use the most similar tactics to the player: camping on high ground with tough heavily armoured dudes and archers while dangerous two-hander damage dealers hold the flanks.